The Primacy of Peter

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#242 Jun 12, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
HUH? Is that justchristinese?
nope just the facts.
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

#243 Jun 12, 2013
Mike, traditional Western accounts of Church history often gloss over those whose efforts resulted in the Protestants. For centuries there were followers of the Messiah who dwelled in the fringes of the land and mountains that had great faith in the Messiah and no faith in the Roman Catholic Church. They were all but wiped out a short time before the Protestant movement started, and were as much a motiviation for rebellion against the Pope as the First to Third Centuries Christians practicing their faith to bring the faith to become the official Roman faith.

So let's not forget those faithful men, women and children who first cherished the once for all delivered faith and who sought to maintain that faith to their deaths in not submitting to the tyrants of Christianity in Rome.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#244 Jun 12, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow such a superiority complex.
I ignore nothing. I have read the Bible very much, and have studied history. I have studied early Christian/Catholic history. I'm sure you know much about catholicism. I prefer to know much about the Bible and Christianity. My conclusion is that catholicism and the RCC is not the church we read in the Bible, and catholicism and Christianity aren't the same thing.
If history and documentation were the real trump cards we would all be Jews right now. And since when does majority rule? Might doesn't make right; being the oldest and the biggest doesn't equal truth.
Why is it you cannot disagree without being disagreeable? There are billions of people who disagree with your views. Would you treat them the same way you do all of us "low end prots"?
Would Jesus act and speak in the same manner? And why do you come across as a Luke 18:11-12 person?
"God, I thank You that I am not like other men-extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector."
If being intellectually honest about the history, development and spread of Christianity in the West is being "superior" then I am guilty as charged and proud of it.
Dave P

United States

#245 Jun 12, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
I think was giving his credentials to talk on the subject.
Dave the rest of your post is not very well done. You must have answered out of anger.
It is complete nonsense if you have studied Christian History and Bible history to come up with the conclusion that Catholic and Christianity is not the same.
Dave: Every professional "historian" ( be them Catholic, protestant, or pagan) in the world knows that Catholicism = Christianity for first 1500 years. 1500 years Dave.
You lose complete credibility making statements like that.
Protestantism started in 1520, another historical fact accepted by all historians. Therefore protestants cannot be the original Christians.
You say the Church Fathers' writings are not inspired and inerrant. Of course not, but they are historical records of what all Christians believed and how the worshiped for 2000 years.
Perhaps you misunderstand my point, as you misunderstand my attitude when I replied to Mark. I am simply making the point that when you read the scriptures, then see what has happened over the course of 2000 years, I have a conclusion. The early church apostacized and fell away quickly in a general sense. The religious system that grew out of it-Catholicism-is not the same simple faith that Jesus and His disciples left us.

Not denying Catholicism happened. I deny they are the one true church and do not follow the teachings of the Bible. Never have. Jesus made a point to tell the Samaritan woman that these kinds of things were to be done away with by Him. Apparently, man prefers bondage over freedom.

To me and many others here, Catholicism loses credibility stating they are the real Christians and the only ones for so long, and yet the system is nothing like the Bible system. Add in ridiculous doctrines added, immoral behavior by leaders, pomp and ceremony, and other things, you have many totally rejecting it.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#246 Jun 12, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
Mike, traditional Western accounts of Church history often gloss over those whose efforts resulted in the Protestants. For centuries there were followers of the Messiah who dwelled in the fringes of the land and mountains that had great faith in the Messiah and no faith in the Roman Catholic Church. They were all but wiped out a short time before the Protestant movement started, and were as much a motiviation for rebellion against the Pope as the First to Third Centuries Christians practicing their faith to bring the faith to become the official Roman faith.
So let's not forget those faithful men, women and children who first cherished the once for all delivered faith and who sought to maintain that faith to their deaths in not submitting to the tyrants of Christianity in Rome.
The Faith and the CC are the same. It is has been for 2000 years.

Show me a record of those who were dwelling on the fringes with the Truth. Are you going to associate yourself with any of the heresies during that time?

As for as any punishments, those days are different from today.

Those things happened on both sides. and not millions like people who are ignorant about history talk about.

Times were different just like 150 years ago in this country. Protestant ministers in the South said having black people as property was not a sin, getting God's blessing to continue. 600,000 people died fighting over where it was a sin or not.

Why? SS. No authority

Do I blame protestants today? Of course not. Do I accept blame for men who sinned in the Church in AD 800. Nope.
Dave P

United States

#247 Jun 12, 2013
As for the intellectual arguments, all of modern Christianity is guilty of this. The "experts" of Jesus day were uneducated fishermen, tax collectors, zealots, peasants. Today, unless one has an "education" he is an uneducated hick. We trust no one but "educated experts". Those were the people that Jesus rebuked the most.

Yet we require 4 years of Bible college, masters degrees, etc. But does anyone really know Jesus?
William

Birmingham, AL

#248 Jun 12, 2013
"Yet we require 4 years of Bible college, masters degrees, etc. But does anyone really know Jesus?"

Reading the Bible for ones self is a sure and certain cure for exposing man-made modern religion for what it actually is:

A vain law-keeping exercise in the form of warmed-over Judaism.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#249 Jun 12, 2013
Dave P wrote:
As for the intellectual arguments, all of modern Christianity is guilty of this. The "experts" of Jesus day were uneducated fishermen, tax collectors, zealots, peasants. Today, unless one has an "education" he is an uneducated hick. We trust no one but "educated experts". Those were the people that Jesus rebuked the most.
Yet we require 4 years of Bible college, masters degrees, etc. But does anyone really know Jesus?
And for that reason they had to be taught. They did not make up things themselves. They did not develop Theology. They did not take Jesus' teaching and decide between themselves what he meant They passed on what Jesus taught them. The Church continues to pass on the same things. Why, 90% of the people in the world was uneducated until the printing press. Even after that literacy grew slowly.

When I started my work career, I knew of many men who still could not read and write.

If you can read, you can read a history book. Protestant Church leaders frown upon that. They don't want you to learn about the history of Christianity and the Bible.
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

#250 Jun 12, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
The Faith and the CC are the same. It is has been for 2000 years.
Show me a record of those who were dwelling on the fringes with the Truth. Are you going to associate yourself with any of the heresies during that time?
As for as any punishments, those days are different from today.
Those things happened on both sides. and not millions like people who are ignorant about history talk about.
Times were different just like 150 years ago in this country. Protestant ministers in the South said having black people as property was not a sin, getting God's blessing to continue. 600,000 people died fighting over where it was a sin or not.
Why? SS. No authority
Do I blame protestants today? Of course not. Do I accept blame for men who sinned in the Church in AD 800. Nope.
The only 'authority' we must follow is God and the Desired One of the ages. Do I need some special man given authority to hear God and do what He said to do? Do you need authority to obey God? Or should we both repent as we don't do it and turn to do what He has decreed?

Or do you only do what the 'authority' of a 'Pope' has told you to do?;-) As those of record have said,'As for me and my house, we will honor the LORD.'
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#251 Jun 12, 2013
Dave P wrote:
As for the intellectual arguments, all of modern Christianity is guilty of this. The "experts" of Jesus day were uneducated fishermen, tax collectors, zealots, peasants. Today, unless one has an "education" he is an uneducated hick. We trust no one but "educated experts". Those were the people that Jesus rebuked the most.
Yet we require 4 years of Bible college, masters degrees, etc. But does anyone really know Jesus?
If you knew history, Catholicism was considered the Church of the ignorant. The Protestant Churches were the enlightened ones. They were the prideful ones. Nobody was going to tell them what to believe. The Apostles listened. The CC listens.

The Protestants know better than the apostles.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#252 Jun 12, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps you misunderstand my point, as you misunderstand my attitude when I replied to Mark. I am simply making the point that when you read the scriptures, then see what has happened over the course of 2000 years, I have a conclusion. The early church apostacized and fell away quickly in a general sense. The religious system that grew out of it-Catholicism-is not the same simple faith that Jesus and His disciples left us.
Not denying Catholicism happened. I deny they are the one true church and do not follow the teachings of the Bible. Never have. Jesus made a point to tell the Samaritan woman that these kinds of things were to be done away with by Him. Apparently, man prefers bondage over freedom.
To me and many others here, Catholicism loses credibility stating they are the real Christians and the only ones for so long, and yet the system is nothing like the Bible system. Add in ridiculous doctrines added, immoral behavior by leaders, pomp and ceremony, and other things, you have many totally rejecting it.


Just wanted you to know that I fully agree.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#253 Jun 12, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
The only 'authority' we must follow is God and the Desired One of the ages. Do I need some special man given authority to hear God and do what He said to do? Do you need authority to obey God? Or should we both repent as we don't do it and turn to do what He has decreed?
Or do you only do what the 'authority' of a 'Pope' has told you to do?;-) As those of record have said,'As for me and my house, we will honor the LORD.'
Take a look at the Churches section of the Yellow Pages in even the smallest town. This is what has come from people like you. Even in my little town there are 26 Protestant denominations listed. There is one Catholic listing.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#254 Jun 12, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
If you knew history, Catholicism was considered the Church of the ignorant. The Protestant Churches were the enlightened ones. They were the prideful ones. Nobody was going to tell them what to believe. The Apostles listened. The CC listens.
The Protestants know better than the apostles.
Self righteousness is so evident in your messages...

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#255 Jun 12, 2013
MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
Take a look at the Churches section of the Yellow Pages in even the smallest town. This is what has come from people like you. Even in my little town there are 26 Protestant denominations listed. There is one Catholic listing.
And in a nearby town there are 41 Protestant denominations listed in their Yellow Pages and 1 Catholic.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#256 Jun 12, 2013
MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
Take a look at the Churches section of the Yellow Pages in even the smallest town. This is what has come from people like you. Even in my little town there are 26 Protestant denominations listed. There is one Catholic listing.
Any of the 26 are probably a better choice. If the majority are always right then the world would become 100% heathens-headed that way now! Is there such a thing as religious heathens-I think so.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#257 Jun 12, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
Just wanted you to know that I fully agree.
And btw I disagree with Mark also...

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#258 Jun 12, 2013
Dave P wrote:
As for the intellectual arguments, all of modern Christianity is guilty of this. The "experts" of Jesus day were uneducated fishermen, tax collectors, zealots, peasants. Today, unless one has an "education" he is an uneducated hick. We trust no one but "educated experts". Those were the people that Jesus rebuked the most.
Yet we require 4 years of Bible college, masters degrees, etc. But does anyone really know Jesus?
For sure you don't have to worry about making any intellectual arguments! So Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Timothy, Barnabas, Tertius etc were all uneducated hicks who could not read or write Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek?

Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#259 Jun 12, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
Any of the 26 are probably a better choice. If the majority are always right then the world would become 100% heathens-headed that way now! Is there such a thing as religious heathens-I think so.
My area has 75 with just Baptist in their name. Non of them are associated with each other.
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#260 Jun 12, 2013
MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
For sure you don't have to worry about making any intellectual arguments! So Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Timothy, Barnabas, Tertius etc were all uneducated hicks who could not read or write Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek?
For someone so educated you seem to miss the point a whole lot.
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#261 Jun 12, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
Just wanted you to know that I fully agree.
Nothing like a couple of Catholics to unite the crew around here.

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