Early Believers and Scripture
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#62 Oct 9, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
8 To me, the very least of all [d]saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ, 9 and to [e]bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things; 10 so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places.
If you go back to the first of the book and even to the first of this chapter you can see this is speaking about the Gentiles being brought into the family (church) of God. This is not speaking of the church going forth as the catholic faith suggest and teach the gospel apart from Man teaching (whom they claim can not). Their thoughts are the church RCC is the sole authority for teaching if you have followed their post which im sure you have.
Again you seem to be stirring the pot alittle here.
Who else is the sole authority for teaching? You? It can't be the Bible. Protestants have proven this to absolutely 100% wrong.

You seem to think that Paul was not part of the Universal Church. Of course he was. He had the authority to teach and he passed this authority to Timothy and Titus at the least. He went to the other Church leaders to get the answer on whether Gentile converts had to be circumcised at the Council of Jerusalem.

Peter ,Paul and the other 10 were all Catholics. Period.

There is no other history you can point to that says otherwise.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#63 Oct 9, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you better read post from Mike and the other catholic on here to find out their thoughts on CHURCH and what that means. They are always quick to point out that if you were taught by your parents or another person other then the RCC church you were taught error for the RCC is perfect in its holiness and the traditons of the apostles were handed down only to the RCC and that is where the teaching is only done from their man made catholic system. Now I find that different then the teaching of Christ, but maybe you dont.
You find it different from the teaching of Christ because somebody taught you that and it was not a successor to the Apostle

Did Jesus promise your community, whatever it is, would not fail?

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#64 Oct 10, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
You find it different from the teaching of Christ because somebody taught you that and it was not a successor to the Apostle
Did Jesus promise your community, whatever it is, would not fail?
Daniel Sommer was the teacher.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#65 Oct 10, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
You find it different from the teaching of Christ because somebody taught you that and it was not a successor to the Apostle
Did Jesus promise your community, whatever it is, would not fail?
Which successor to the apostle taught you?

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#66 Oct 10, 2013
MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
Daniel Sommer was the teacher.
Do other catholics lie like you?

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#67 Oct 10, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Who else is the sole authority for teaching? You? It can't be the Bible. Protestants have proven this to absolutely 100% wrong.
You seem to think that Paul was not part of the Universal Church. Of course he was. He had the authority to teach and he passed this authority to Timothy and Titus at the least. He went to the other Church leaders to get the answer on whether Gentile converts had to be circumcised at the Council of Jerusalem.
Peter ,Paul and the other 10 were all Catholics. Period.
There is no other history you can point to that says otherwise.
They were not catholics for that was not invented yet period.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#68 Oct 10, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>Which successor to the apostle taught you?
Father Joseph Perplansky.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#69 Oct 10, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>They were not catholics for that was not invented yet period.
What authority do you have?

Who taught you what you believe?
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#70 Oct 10, 2013
William wrote:
If it was a mystery hid in God from before the foundation of the world, and the scripture says that it is (and in numerous places in Paul's epistles) then it could not have been foretold.
That ain't how mysteries work.
The word mystery simply means "hidden truth". And that's exactly what the mystery was- hidden, not made known. It was foretold, but not made clear until after Christ came. There are too many OT prophecies about the gentiles being included to believe this. Jonah anyone? Naaman? The widow of Zarapeth? Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel's writings?
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#71 Oct 10, 2013
William wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure it does.
John the Baptist came preaching repentance to Israel based on Jesus Christ being the long-prophesied Jewish messiah. That is a FAR different dispensational message than Paul preaching that Christ died for our sins, was buried, and resurrected for our justification.
Not even close to being the same thing. John couldn't preach that Christ had died for their sins, when he hadn't even preached yet, much less been crucified or resurrected.
Things that are different are not the same thing.
William, the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus was preached and taught in shadows in the OT. The feast of Passover, Unleavened Bread, and Firstfruits EXACTLY typify this. Isaiah gave the suffering servant prophecy which is explicit. Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy tells us exactly what the Messiah would do- and taking away sins was one of these. Everlasting righteousness to come was preached in the OT. Paul did not preach a new message! EVERYTHING he taught was foreshadowed in the OT. All one has to do is read.

Those examples don't even scratch the surface.
William

Eastaboga, AL

#72 Oct 10, 2013
Curious then that Peter never knew that Christ died for the sins of those Jews in Acts 2. If he preached that Christ died for their sins, was buried, and resurrected for their justification then he sure did fail to mention it.

"God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses" certainly isn't found in the Acts 2 speech. Quite the opposite, actually. It's a murder indictment against Jews who witnessed the death of their long-prophesied messiah (theirs, not ours). God WAS imputing their trespasses against them.

Not so what Paul later was given to preach. To gentiles, who had no messiah because they were not tied to Israel in any way, shape, or form. They were told about a savior, not a king of the Jews, which would have had no meaning to an Ephesian or a Colossian gentile.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#73 Oct 10, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Father Joseph Perplansky.
How do you know he was a successor?

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#74 Oct 10, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
What authority do you have?
Who taught you what you believe?
Father Elbert of arkansas.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#75 Oct 10, 2013
Proverbs 1:8

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

8 Hear, my son, your fatherís instruction
And do not forsake your motherís teaching;

Proverbs 22:6

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

6 Train up a child [a]in the way he should go,
Even when he is old he will not depart from it.

Ephesians 6:4

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

4 Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.

Titus 2

New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Duties of the Older and Younger

2 But as for you, speak the things which are fitting for sound doctrine. 2 Older men are to be temperate, dignified, sensible, sound in faith, in love, in [a]perseverance.

3 Older women likewise are to be reverent in their behavior, not malicious gossips nor enslaved to much wine, teaching what is good, 4 so that they may [b]encourage the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, 5 to be sensible, pure, workers at home, kind, being subject to their own husbands, so that the word of God will not be dishonored.

These are but a few of the scriptures showing how teaching occurs and yet you can find non that speak of apostlical succession teaching.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#76 Oct 10, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
Proverbs 1:8
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
8 Hear, my son, your fatherís instruction
And do not forsake your motherís teaching;
Proverbs 22:6
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
6 Train up a child [a]in the way he should go,
Even when he is old he will not depart from it.
Ephesians 6:4
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
4 Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.
Titus 2
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Duties of the Older and Younger
2 But as for you, speak the things which are fitting for sound doctrine. 2 Older men are to be temperate, dignified, sensible, sound in faith, in love, in [a]perseverance.
3 Older women likewise are to be reverent in their behavior, not malicious gossips nor enslaved to much wine, teaching what is good, 4 so that they may [b]encourage the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, 5 to be sensible, pure, workers at home, kind, being subject to their own husbands, so that the word of God will not be dishonored.
These are but a few of the scriptures showing how teaching occurs and yet you can find non that speak of apostlical succession teaching.
Then how did your home grown teaching go so wrong? Must be that your teachers were wrong! Go ask one about Daniel Sommer.
Dave P

Grayson, KY

#77 Oct 10, 2013
William wrote:
Curious then that Peter never knew that Christ died for the sins of those Jews in Acts 2. If he preached that Christ died for their sins, was buried, and resurrected for their justification then he sure did fail to mention it.
"God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses" certainly isn't found in the Acts 2 speech. Quite the opposite, actually. It's a murder indictment against Jews who witnessed the death of their long-prophesied messiah (theirs, not ours). God WAS imputing their trespasses against them.
Not so what Paul later was given to preach. To gentiles, who had no messiah because they were not tied to Israel in any way, shape, or form. They were told about a savior, not a king of the Jews, which would have had no meaning to an Ephesian or a Colossian gentile.
Nowhere in Paul's recorded SERMONS do we read that Paul PREACHED such a thing either. You are taking statements, doctrinal statements, made in epistles, and trying to make them historical happenings. For your system to work you must prove that what Paul preached was indeed brand new, not foretold in Biblical history. That is something you cannot do.
Dave P

Grayson, KY

#78 Oct 10, 2013
The promise to Abraham was given before Israel ever existed.
William

Eastaboga, AL

#79 Oct 10, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
Nowhere in Paul's recorded SERMONS do we read that Paul PREACHED such a thing either. You are taking statements, doctrinal statements, made in epistles, and trying to make them historical happenings. For your system to work you must prove that what Paul preached was indeed brand new, not foretold in Biblical history. That is something you cannot do.
Paul never preached that Christ died for our sins, was buried, and resurrected for our justification?

And if what Paul was given wasn't different than what Christ gave to the 11, then why does he even have to show up at all? And when he does show, being not sent to baptize, is Paul then out of the will of the Lord? Because he sent the other guys out to baptize. Nowhere do we see him tell anyone, "I am not baptizing because your local priests/preachers will do the baptizing". It just isn't there.

Things that are different are not the same thing. The gospel given to Peter and the disciples is not the same gospel as what was given to Paul, and to try and mash them together into one gospel results in endless confusion and an accursed gospel that will not save anyone.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#80 Oct 10, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
Proverbs 1:8
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
8 Hear, my son, your fatherís instruction
And do not forsake your motherís teaching;
Proverbs 22:6
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
6 Train up a child [a]in the way he should go,
Even when he is old he will not depart from it.
Ephesians 6:4
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
4 Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.
Titus 2
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Duties of the Older and Younger
2 But as for you, speak the things which are fitting for sound doctrine. 2 Older men are to be temperate, dignified, sensible, sound in faith, in love, in [a]perseverance.
3 Older women likewise are to be reverent in their behavior, not malicious gossips nor enslaved to much wine, teaching what is good, 4 so that they may [b]encourage the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, 5 to be sensible, pure, workers at home, kind, being subject to their own husbands, so that the word of God will not be dishonored.
These are but a few of the scriptures showing how teaching occurs and yet you can find non that speak of apostlical succession teaching.
Honor your Father and Mother does not mean believing in a heresy just because they did.

The Church is the Pillar and foundation of Truth, not your parents.

Paul mentions succession often, but St Clement describes the early Church perfectly. This was written before St John wrote Revelation . He did not write anything to denounce it. Clement's letter the Corinthians almost made it into the Bible.

Pope St. Clement ďThrough countryside and city [the apostles] preached, and they appointed their earliest converts, testing them by the Spirit, to be the bishops and deacons of future believers. Nor was this a novelty, for bishops and deacons had been written about a long time earlier.... Our apostles knew through our Lord Jesus Christ that there would be strife for the office of bishop. For this reason, therefore, having received perfect foreknowledge, they appointed those who have already been mentioned and afterwards added the further provision that, if they should die, other approved men should succeed to their ministryĒ(Letter to the Corinthians 42:4Ė5, 44:1Ė3 [A.D. 80]).
William

Birmingham, AL

#81 Oct 10, 2013
"Nowhere in Paul's recorded SERMONS do we read that Paul PREACHED such a thing either. You are taking statements, doctrinal statements, made in epistles, and trying to make them historical happenings."

Or:

1 Corinthians 15:1-4

15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I PREACHED unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.

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