Early Believers and Scripture

Since: May 10

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#22 Oct 8, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
The Apostles started the Church. It is visible thing. Jesus had already selected Peter as the head guy. Did you notice he said that right after Jesus told Peter that the Father had spoken to Peter. Peter was the only Apostle the Father spoke to directly.
The low end Prots made it invisible in the 17th century.
Who taught you? I don't think you ever answered that. Apparently websites teach you.
Go ahead and post the scripture where Christ told his disciples that the church would do the teaching.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#23 Oct 8, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>Go ahead and post the scripture where Christ told his disciples that the church would do the teaching.
Are you saying all those who entered the Church on Pentecost were not taught by the Church?

It had to be the Church. The Church existed before any new NT scripture was written.

The last scripture to make the Bible was written 60 years after the Church was started.

The Canon did not exist for 350 years.

Since: Jun 11

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#24 Oct 8, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>Go ahead and post the scripture where Christ told his disciples that the church would do the teaching.
Funny how the two JC's know so much about the Catholic Church and nothing about men like Daniel Sommer and David Lipscomb. Cracks me up!

Since: May 10

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#25 Oct 8, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you saying all those who entered the Church on Pentecost were not taught by the Church?
It had to be the Church. The Church existed before any new NT scripture was written.
The last scripture to make the Bible was written 60 years after the Church was started.
The Canon did not exist for 350 years.
Go ahead and post that scripture Im sure its there.:)

Since: Jun 11

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#26 Oct 8, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>Go ahead and post that scripture Im sure its there.:)
You should be spending your time coming to grips with why Daniel Sommer made you believe the way you do.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#27 Oct 8, 2013
Like most it was his mommy and daddy that taught him what to believe.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#28 Oct 8, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
In the story about Judgment Day,(Matthew 25:31-46) where Jesus separates the sheep from the goats, the only questions that Jesus asks the multitude concern works:
1. Did you feed the hungry?
2. Did you clothe the naked?
3. Did you give a drink to the thirsty, etc.
If they answered “no” to these works in Matthew 25, then Jesus said that they were going to hell. Nowhere does Jesus ask, "Did you accept me as your personal Lord and Savior?"
Mike, this is a critical verse, but not the only one. Related to this is also the ten virgins parable and clear teachings related to the prophecies He fulfilled about the Torah and those who disregard it. He is the Rock, according to Isaiah - not Peter.

Have you read Isaiah lately? Great book.... I'm going through Matthew in the AENT and reading up on all the OT references more thoroughly than before. So much has to do with the Law and word of God and being careful to do His will that I marvel at Paul's statements about how the Law was given for those evil people. All I could think of is how at odds the views of Paul were in comparison to David in the first chapter of Psalm 119.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#29 Oct 8, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure he did.
He just didn't mention anything about reading a book and every one gets to decide what it means and that is how you decide how to gain eternal salvation.
That book even tells you the Church is the pillar of Truth just like Jesus set it up.
From History, we know it is the Catholic Church. It has been the only one around for the whole 2,000 years.
The apostles were authorized messengers of Jesus to preach and teach what He had first taught them. Did He authorize them to go beyond His word or take any of them away?*Mt 28; Acts 3:22,23

I'd have no issue with the Catholic Church if they did as He said and made the point to abide in His words that lead to eternal life.
pearl

West Jordan, UT

#30 Oct 9, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
The apostles were authorized messengers of Jesus to preach and teach what He had first taught them. Did He authorize them to go beyond His word or take any of them away?*Mt 28; Acts 3:22,23
I'd have no issue with the Catholic Church if they did as He said and made the point to abide in His words that lead to eternal life.
Eternal life...that's a good one, works almost every time.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#31 Oct 9, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
Mike, this is a critical verse, but not the only one. Related to this is also the ten virgins parable and clear teachings related to the prophecies He fulfilled about the Torah and those who disregard it. He is the Rock, according to Isaiah - not Peter.
Have you read Isaiah lately? Great book.... I'm going through Matthew in the AENT and reading up on all the OT references more thoroughly than before. So much has to do with the Law and word of God and being careful to do His will that I marvel at Paul's statements about how the Law was given for those evil people. All I could think of is how at odds the views of Paul were in comparison to David in the first chapter of Psalm 119.
I tend to follow the Lectionary of the Church. We cover the whole Bible in approximately 3 years and emphasize certain readings according to the Church calendar.

All the Apostles knew the OT well.

There are 3 images that from the OT that Jesus used to emphasize that Peter was to lead his Church.

They are rock, steward, and shepherd. These three images are found not just in one verse, but are found in the Old Testament and affirmed in the New.

Rock is found in other places like Exodus, Deuteronomy, Samuel, Isaiah and the Psalms and others.

Stewart and the Keys are also in the OT in Isaiah 22. The true holder of the Keys is the King, but the when the King is not around the Keys are give to the Chief Steward.

The Shepherd is probably the strongest image of the 3. Genesis, Isaiah and probably the most in Ezekiel.

All 3 of these were fulfilled with Jesus.

When Jesus changes Simon's name to Rock, tells him that he will build his Church on him, the Apostles knew exactly what he was doing.

"Feed my lambs, take care of my sheep, feed my sheep." Here Jesus delegates his authority three times in three different ways, using imagery found throughout the Old Testament. In so doing he clearly reveals his delegation of authority to Peter.

Finally, Jesus gives the Keys to the Kingdom. Every Jew or Gentile knew what that meant, and was backed up from the OT.

History shows that from the earliest days Christians considered Peter to be the rock, steward, and shepherd that Jesus proclaimed him to be. Furthermore, from the earliest days they considered his successor to be the Bishop of Rome.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#32 Oct 9, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
The apostles were authorized messengers of Jesus to preach and teach what He had first taught them. Did He authorize them to go beyond His word or take any of them away?*Mt 28; Acts 3:22,23
I'd have no issue with the Catholic Church if they did as He said and made the point to abide in His words that lead to eternal life.
Once again, the Church existed before the NT scripture. The Church has and never will teach anything in the area of faith and morals that the Apostles did not teach.

The Bible was created to help her teach.

What it teaches does not contradict the Bible in any way. It only contradicts what Prots thinks the Bible means.

Sola Scriptura was not foretold in the OT and never mentioned in the New. In fact just the opposite is presented.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#33 Oct 9, 2013
I think many fail to grasp which words in the Bible are the ultimate authority in word, faith, belief and action -'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.' The book contains that record. If we didn't have the record of what God said is good we would not have the light He gave and the Spirit could not function as He intended. Even among His early disciples it was said that His words are spirit and life, but that some don't believe. It's just worse today than it was then.

Some words I was pondering are in Isaiah where God says He alone is our Redeemer, there is no other, and that He is thereby the Rock of our salvation. If there is a singular Rock, that pretty much nails it for me. There is also much about forming idols to worship or petition (pray to) that one could think some should think twice before forming anything to pray to.

Most 'prots' don't think they err. Has the nature of man changed at all? Even though Jeremiah records that each man doing what he thinks is right in his own heart is an evil in Gods' eyes, the prevailing theme today seems just about the same - but that is what Paul taught - all things are lawful - it's a matter of what you can do with good conscience, and that expedience dictates that. If Catholics stick to what God said to do, why do they have Paul in their Bibles?
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#34 Oct 9, 2013
Those were some good points on people being left in charge, and they also fit well with some of the parables He taught about the king who went on a journey. Who was faithful and profitable when the king returned? Who gave the King what was rightfully His?

Since: May 10

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#35 Oct 9, 2013
MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
You should be spending your time coming to grips with why Daniel Sommer made you believe the way you do.
Never heard of him sorry can come to grips without knowledge.
William

Birmingham, AL

#36 Oct 9, 2013
"Sola Scriptura was not foretold in the OT and never mentioned in the New. In fact just the opposite is presented."

What Paul was given to do is not found in the OT scriptures. How could it be, when he calls it "a mystery, hid in God, from before the foundation of the world."

Before the foundation of the world.

That would predate Adam and Eve, and as such, any church.

Since: May 10

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#37 Oct 9, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
Like most it was his mommy and daddy that taught him what to believe.
That is what the bible says to do. Do you need that scripture? Here is one of many that tells a father about teaching their children of the Lord.

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

6 Train up a child [a]in the way he should go,
Even when he is old he will not depart from it.

Now go ahead and post Christ telling his disciples the church would be responsible for teaching.

Go ahead

Since: May 10

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#38 Oct 9, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Once again, the Church existed before the NT scripture. The Church has and never will teach anything in the area of faith and morals that the Apostles did not teach.
The Bible was created to help her teach.
What it teaches does not contradict the Bible in any way. It only contradicts what Prots thinks the Bible means.
Sola Scriptura was not foretold in the OT and never mentioned in the New. In fact just the opposite is presented.
believe this to be a lie from the devil. The devil deceives in many ways and usually from traditons of man is what Christ warned repeatedly about.

Since: Jun 11

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#39 Oct 9, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
believe this to be a lie from the devil. The devil deceives in many ways and usually from traditons of man is what Christ warned repeatedly about.
typical response from the Daniel Sommer tradition!

Since: May 10

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#40 Oct 9, 2013
MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
typical response from the Daniel Sommer tradition!
So daniel responded to this also? Simply change my belief.

Since: May 10

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#41 Oct 9, 2013
MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
typical response from the Daniel Sommer tradition!
Maybe you want to find the scripture your buddy mike cant come up with where Christ advised his followers that the church would teach man. I already disproved his belief by Gods word that fathers are suppose to teach. Now that was funny when he fell in that trap.

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