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Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#61 May 10, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
Now, you are being truthful. They are mostly taught to be pew sitters and hang on the words of the the hierarchy. I probably need to rethink this some. I am not a catholic and have no intention or ever becoming one But I do remember that they once read the scripture only in Latin. That alone proves that many catholics do not have a high regard for truth as given by God. Many trust in the hierarchy and rituals.
I think some rituals and objects such as the cross and the rosary beads can be a good way to stay in touch but it is usually not very effective in constraining the heart mind and soul. For that we need an inner working of the Spirit.
I once was sharing the gospel with a with a worker when he cut me short. He said I was baptized so I am saved. Turns out he was sprinkled by a catholic priest as baby and believed he was saved but has no experience in any church. I bet you believe he is saved-am I right?
What I think doesn't matter. What I am taught by the Church that Jesus says is the pillar and ground of Truth matters.

That guy you mentioned was saved at the moment he was baptized. If he would have died shortly after without committing a mortal sin and be unrepentant, he would have gone to heaven.

If he has not continued with his faith, he probably has no chance. I am using my words carefully because with God anything is possible. He might repent, confess his sins, before he dies and be okay.

The Church teaches you were saved, you are being saved, and you hope to saved.

You are saved by Grace working through love. The Apostles left us the way of salvation. It is a journey.

Even a Pope does not for sure he will be saved. If he dies in a state of mortal sin, he could joining the rest of the crowd in hell.

But I assume being such a holy man, he is like Paul, He knows nothing at this time that would keep him from being saved.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#62 May 10, 2013
Bobby wrote:
Now, if any one of us were to say we were baptized as a baby by a protestant preacher Mike will will automatically deny his salvation. Why because it is all about the true church thingy.
The Church teaches the doctrine of Invincible Ignorance, which means by no fault of the believer, you have no knowledge of the True teaching of the CC. It could be because since birth , you have been told the CC was the whore of Babylon, we worship statures, and anybody in the CC is going to hell, it is not your fault you dont know the truth. It would be similar to somebody in the 3rd world how has never know anything about Jesus.

However if you are baptized and dont die in a state of mortal sin, you have a chance to go to heaven even if you dont belong to Jesus' church.

The Church teaches many Catholics are headed to hell and many non Catholics are not. But, they have a harder row to plow.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#63 May 10, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
What I think doesn't matter. What I am taught by the Church that Jesus says is the pillar and ground of Truth matters.
That guy you mentioned was saved at the moment he was baptized. If he would have died shortly after without committing a mortal sin and be unrepentant, he would have gone to heaven.
If he has not continued with his faith, he probably has no chance. I am using my words carefully because with God anything is possible. He might repent, confess his sins, before he dies and be okay.
The Church teaches you were saved, you are being saved, and you hope to saved.
You are saved by Grace working through love. The Apostles left us the way of salvation. It is a journey.
Even a Pope does not for sure he will be saved. If he dies in a state of mortal sin, he could joining the rest of the crowd in hell.
But I assume being such a holy man, he is like Paul, He knows nothing at this time that would keep him from being saved.
Here is what I hear you saying. No man can be for sure he is saved because he knows his salvation is entirely in his own hands and has no chance at all if he is not catholic.

Titus 3:5-7 He saved us not by works of righteousness that we have done but on the basis of his mercy, through the washing of the new birth and the renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us in full measure through Jesus Christ our Savior. 7 And so, since we have been justified by his grace, we become heirs with the confident expectation of eternal life.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#64 May 10, 2013
Bobby wrote:
Whoever holds the keys to the only true church holds the keys to your salvation.
I can live with that statement.

Jesus told the Church whatever you bind on Earth is bound in Heaven. That means God listens to his Church.

Jesus also told the Church whatever sins you forgive are forgiven and vice versa. How can the Church know your sins. You have to tell her. Jesus forgives your sins by you confessing them to the Church.

But the ways to Salvation has never changed in 2000 years. Some traditions with a small has.
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#65 May 10, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
The Church teaches the doctrine of Invincible Ignorance, which means by no fault of the believer, you have no knowledge of the True teaching of the CC. It could be because since birth , you have been told the CC was the whore of Babylon, we worship statures, and anybody in the CC is going to hell, it is not your fault you dont know the truth. It would be similar to somebody in the 3rd world how has never know anything about Jesus.
However if you are baptized and dont die in a state of mortal sin, you have a chance to go to heaven even if you dont belong to Jesus' church.
The Church teaches many Catholics are headed to hell and many non Catholics are not. But, they have a harder row to plow.
It is our faults today if we don't know the truth. With all the info and technology available, only those who don't desire the truth don't have access. There is even some access to the truth of Christ in Muslim countries-not as much, some may die for it-but it is there.

Ashdod!
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#66 May 10, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
It is our faults today if we don't know the truth. With all the info and technology available, only those who don't desire the truth don't have access. There is even some access to the truth of Christ in Muslim countries-not as much, some may die for it-but it is there.
Ashdod!
Then why are not everyone Catholic?

All one has to do is research the first 350 years of Christianity.
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#67 May 10, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Then why are not everyone Catholic?
All one has to do is research the first 350 years of Christianity.
Why are not everyone Catholic?

"You shall know the TRUTH, and the TRUTH shall make you free".

Bah Ashdod!
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#68 May 11, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
Why are not everyone Catholic?
"You shall know the TRUTH, and the TRUTH shall make you free".
Bah Ashdod!
Amen!!!!

Read as many writings as you can find from those who were taught by the Apostles and those who knew men who were taught directly by the Apostles if you dare.

Just the 300 years before the Bible and 300 after.

You will find the truth that the Church Jesus started and the only Christian Church for 1500 was the Catholic.

Jesus promised it wouldnt fail and it hasnt.

Dave you sound like a good Christian man. Just think how much more
you could be with the fullness of the truth.

To actually eat the flesh and drink the blood of Christ as he told us to. How much more of personal relationship can you have than be to in the physical presence of Jesus. Every knee must bend.

The truth will set you free...
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#69 May 11, 2013
Would rather read the apostles themselves than some guy after them. What the apostles said and what those guys said aren't the same things.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#70 May 11, 2013
Dave P wrote:
Would rather read the apostles themselves than some guy after them. What the apostles said and what those guys said aren't the same things.
So what some man says today 2000 years later after multiple translations from 1 language to the next and after the invention SS, is going to be more accurate than PolyCarp and St Ignatius who was taught by St John? Even 6 generations removed from the Apostles are going to be more accurate than some man today?

Who would be more accurate on what your great grandfather wrote, your grandfather or your son?

The Church has kept great records on what was taught. What the Apostles said what they meant.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#71 May 11, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
So what some man says today 2000 years later after multiple translations from 1 language to the next and after the invention SS, is going to be more accurate than PolyCarp and St Ignatius who was taught by St John? Even 6 generations removed from the Apostles are going to be more accurate than some man today?
Who would be more accurate on what your great grandfather wrote, your grandfather or your son?
The Church has kept great records on what was taught. What the Apostles said what they meant.
So PolyCarp and Ignatius received the laying on of Johns hands and thus passed on the apostolic succession? If so where can we read that in scripture?
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#72 May 11, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
So PolyCarp and Ignatius received the laying on of Johns hands and thus passed on the apostolic succession? If so where can we read that in scripture?
They might have been ordained by another Bishop. I said its historical that they were taught by St John.

St Ignatius wrote this just 20 years after St John died. He was on the way to Rome to die for what the Apostles taught him and he refused to deny it.

Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrnaeans, Chapter 6, 110 A.D.:

Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God ... They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes.

Read John 6 tonight. Will you say that what St John taught St Ignatius is wrong and he died for nothing?

You can read the same teachings from Christians for the next 14 centuries.

But you are right and they are wrong. Why dont you read what they wrote and prove me wrong. Prove to me that the early Church was not Catholic.

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