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21 - 40 of 72 Comments Last updated May 11, 2013
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

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#21
May 6, 2013
 

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JesusCreed wrote:
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The Catholic Church strayed from the teachings of the Apostles, adding to the Word of God. The ‘great falling away’ may be where YOUR church history is traced to. It may be a good historical account of the church turning from its roots. Thanks to the CC, we have clear writings that demonstrate how the church got off track. The CC done a superb job keeping track with all of its false teachings that contradict Scripture. What you believe to be ‘Church History’ really is a record of ‘Church Apostasy’. Thanks to all of the “Historical writings” from the CC, we can compare that to INSPIRED scripture and know that the CC is a false Church.
I agree the Church keeps great records. The good and the bad. The Church is made up of sinners. The Apostles were sinners.

At what point do you think that Jesus allowed his Church to fail even though he promised he would not?

Why did he wait 1500 years to correct his mistake?

Are you a COCer? It took God 1800 years to create you.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

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#22
May 6, 2013
 

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Dave P wrote:
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They found it interesting because of the pomp and circumstance, and because it was "interesting". Don't get your hopes up Mike-both also didn't like the fact that no one could understand the language-I think that may be the point-and both knew it was not what God intended the church to be.
I believe a seed was planted in them. They sensed they were in a Holy place. It is how the early Church worshiped too. It hasn't changed. We have plenty of historical proof on that.

I have found no historical proof and any other form of Christian worship before 1500.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

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#23
May 6, 2013
 
JesusCreed wrote:
<quoted text>
The Catholic Church strayed from the teachings of the Apostles, adding to the Word of God. The ‘great falling away’ may be where YOUR church history is traced to. It may be a good historical account of the church turning from its roots. Thanks to the CC, we have clear writings that demonstrate how the church got off track. The CC done a superb job keeping track with all of its false teachings that contradict Scripture. What you believe to be ‘Church History’ really is a record of ‘Church Apostasy’. Thanks to all of the “Historical writings” from the CC, we can compare that to INSPIRED scripture and know that the CC is a false Church.
I think the great falling away is a more recent event, in fact I think we are experiencing it now in every church.

Besides if we use the same standard we use on the catholic church, I can see a parallel event within the coc, they also argue they are the only true church and are full of human traditions.

What we need to be looking for is those who are denying that Jesus is Lord. Those are the ones who are rejecting the gospel.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

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#24
May 6, 2013
 
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
I think the great falling away is a more recent event, in fact I think we are experiencing it now in every church.
Besides if we use the same standard we use on the catholic church, I can see a parallel event within the coc, they also argue they are the only true church and are full of human traditions.
What we need to be looking for is those who are denying that Jesus is Lord. Those are the ones who are rejecting the gospel.
If you believe polls, I think the last one I saw said around 75% of Americans believe in God, but only around 40% have gone to Church in the last 6 months or something like that.

I know, you have heard it before, but to me it all comes back to SS. The HS will lead you to the Truth. These people claim that the Church is not necessary and they point Bible verses to prove it. All they need is a Bible, a personal relationship with Jesus,live a good life and they are heaven bound.

And many of them will make it and many in the pews will not.

However I am remaining a sheep because his sheep hear his voice.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

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#25
May 6, 2013
 
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
If you believe polls, I think the last one I saw said around 75% of Americans believe in God, but only around 40% have gone to Church in the last 6 months or something like that.
I know, you have heard it before, but to me it all comes back to SS. The HS will lead you to the Truth. These people claim that the Church is not necessary and they point Bible verses to prove it. All they need is a Bible, a personal relationship with Jesus,live a good life and they are heaven bound.
And many of them will make it and many in the pews will not.
However I am remaining a sheep because his sheep hear his voice.
Sounds reasonable to me but I believe Gods words are just as powerful when we read the bible as it is when a preacher in any church preaches it.
Mike Peterson

Madison, MS

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#26
May 6, 2013
 

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JesusCreed wrote:
<quoted text>
The Catholic Church strayed from the teachings of the Apostles, adding to the Word of God. The ‘great falling away’ may be where YOUR church history is traced to. It may be a good historical account of the church turning from its roots. Thanks to the CC, we have clear writings that demonstrate how the church got off track. The CC done a superb job keeping track with all of its false teachings that contradict Scripture. What you believe to be ‘Church History’ really is a record of ‘Church Apostasy’. Thanks to all of the “Historical writings” from the CC, we can compare that to INSPIRED scripture and know that the CC is a false Church.
What words did the CC add to the Bible the CC created? Is that what you are asking?

Father Martin Luther took 7 books out and tried to take James out. I am not sure I know what you mean.

Since: May 10

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#27
May 7, 2013
 
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
What words did the CC add to the Bible the CC created? Is that what you are asking?
Father Martin Luther took 7 books out and tried to take James out. I am not sure I know what you mean.
Didnt Martin Luther change the wording of James? If so where did he get that authority?
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

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#28
May 7, 2013
 

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JustChristian wrote:
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Didnt Martin Luther change the wording of James? If so where did he get that authority?
He sure did after he left the CC. He also trashed 7 books from the OT. The HS spirit told him to according to him. He was a heretic.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

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#29
May 7, 2013
 
Bobby wrote:
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Sounds reasonable to me but I believe Gods words are just as powerful when we read the bible as it is when a preacher in any church preaches it.
As long as you don't try and interpret them yourself. The NT scriptures were explained to the Church when the writers were alive.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

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#30
May 7, 2013
 

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Mike Peterson wrote:
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As long as you don't try and interpret them yourself. The NT scriptures were explained to the Church when the writers were alive.
Mike, you are giving you faith to mere men. Trust in God/his spirit to teach you.

The catholics will accept the scripture below as being only for the apostles.

But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

However this same John who penned the above verse said this when he was speaking to ordinary believers:

1 John 2:27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

I am afraid Catholicism would rather you did not know this.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

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#31
May 7, 2013
 
Peter tells us this: But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.

Don't sell out to men who want to rule over you, sell out the the king of kings and he will refine you as pure gold worthy of standing in his presence.
Mike Peterson

United States

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#32
May 7, 2013
 

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Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
Mike, you are giving you faith to mere men. Trust in God/his spirit to teach you.
The catholics will accept the scripture below as being only for the apostles.
But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
However this same John who penned the above verse said this when he was speaking to ordinary believers:
1 John 2:27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.
I am afraid Catholicism would rather you did not know this.
I believe in every verse of the Bible taken in context. The Church I am a member created the Bible. It is the RCC's gift to world.

This is another verse Protestants pull out of book to rationalize their beliefs.

I am a Lector in the Mass, meaning I read scripture in Church. I study the Bible regularly. When we announce what we are going to read, which every CC in the world reads the same scriptures that day, we say " A reading from the Book of 1st Peter". We don't use verse numbers because they are read in context, not cherry picking.

(BTW, we always have a reading from the OT, the Psalms(which we often sing), one from the Epistles' and one from the Gospels and they all relate to each other)

Expand it and read from 1 John 18-27 the meaning of the passage is self-evident, and you seem to using it employ proof texting to prove your doctrine. Basically picking this one verse uses circular logic: X is true, but Y contradicts X, so Y must be Z, therefore X is true. They are trying change the obvious meaning of the passage to fit their belief.

So to answer your question: John is simply telling them that they have been anointed to preach the Truth, and to not allow anyone to teach anything different. This is obvious because he says that some have gone out from them, but they are not of them, because the proof they are not of them is that they did not remain with them. That anyone who does not preach the Truth is an anti-Christ. That the Truth has been taught to them, and since they had been entrusted (anointed) with the Truth, then they must preach the Truth which has been passed on to them. So this particular passage he quoted is just instructing them to not let anyone try to teach any other doctrine within the Church.

The Church is the pillar of the Truth. Don't let anybody teach you different.

To take it the way you interpret it, I am not to believe anything YOU teach. Why do you go and listen to sermons or to Bible studies. "You don't need anybody to teach you." Is that your interpretation?

Bobby, the Bible is not this verse, not that verse. It is this verse AND that verse. ie "Remember what I have taught you by Letter and Tradition." Not just "Scripture is sufficient for teaching".
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

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#33
May 7, 2013
 

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Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe in every verse of the Bible taken in context. The Church I am a member created the Bible. It is the RCC's gift to world.
This is another verse Protestants pull out of book to rationalize their beliefs.
I am a Lector in the Mass, meaning I read scripture in Church. I study the Bible regularly. When we announce what we are going to read, which every CC in the world reads the same scriptures that day, we say " A reading from the Book of 1st Peter". We don't use verse numbers because they are read in context, not cherry picking.
(BTW, we always have a reading from the OT, the Psalms(which we often sing), one from the Epistles' and one from the Gospels and they all relate to each other)
Expand it and read from 1 John 18-27 the meaning of the passage is self-evident, and you seem to using it employ proof texting to prove your doctrine. Basically picking this one verse uses circular logic: X is true, but Y contradicts X, so Y must be Z, therefore X is true. They are trying change the obvious meaning of the passage to fit their belief.
So to answer your question: John is simply telling them that they have been anointed to preach the Truth, and to not allow anyone to teach anything different. This is obvious because he says that some have gone out from them, but they are not of them, because the proof they are not of them is that they did not remain with them. That anyone who does not preach the Truth is an anti-Christ. That the Truth has been taught to them, and since they had been entrusted (anointed) with the Truth, then they must preach the Truth which has been passed on to them. So this particular passage he quoted is just instructing them to not let anyone try to teach any other doctrine within the Church.
The Church is the pillar of the Truth. Don't let anybody teach you different.
To take it the way you interpret it, I am not to believe anything YOU teach. Why do you go and listen to sermons or to Bible studies. "You don't need anybody to teach you." Is that your interpretation?
Bobby, the Bible is not this verse, not that verse. It is this verse AND that verse. ie "Remember what I have taught you by Letter and Tradition." Not just "Scripture is sufficient for teaching".
Mike I can't allow you to get away with this obvious false statement. You said "The Church I am a member created the Bible".

Absolutely not true. The word of God was not created by men, the scripture was always there. I will agree that the Catholics put the scripture together in a book and I am thankful for that but the word is God's word-not created words.

Secondly-when John wrote the scripture

"for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him"

There was no catholic church. Peter had been dead for years and this was written about AD 95. The Apostle John was the last Apostle. John was not saying that some human priest anointed each of his hearers and taught them truth. The "him" is a direct connection to the indwelling Spirit of God not to some catholic preist.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

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#34
May 9, 2013
 

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It amazes me sometimes, but it shouldn't because I was there too, that Christians who go by the Bible alone have no clue about the History of it, why it was created and how it was created.

First of all Jesus created a Church which is the pillar and foundation of Truth. Nowhere does Jesus or the Apostles mention a Bible or even a NT. The Bible does not mention any either.

For 350 years, Christians were being saved or doomed to hell on the Teaching of the church Jesus left. There were no Bible. That is longer than America has been a country by 100 years.

More and more scriptures were being read in the Churches some of which were not teaching the true doctrine. Hundreds were being circulated.

Another thing that was going on, was the Romans were killing Christians who refused to disavow what the CC was teaching. They had to know what the Truth was so they knew what was worth dying over. They did not want to die over a spurious scripture.

Finally in 382 AD the CC, led by the HS, voted on what scriptures were the inspired and inerrant written words of God.

Some of the Scriptures had no opposition but others were heavily debated about. After it was voted on, there was some dissension. But Jesus left a Church with a man, the successor of Peter , with Authority to decide all things in the areas of Faith and Morals. Pope Damascus made his decree. The Councils of Hippo and Carthage reaffirmed his decision and until today, all Christians, even Protesters agree with that decision the CC made, at least for the NT. Luther later through out 7 books of the OT which the Bible forbid.

Now Protesters try and tell the Church they dont follow the Bible and they created it.

If you really stop and think about it, that is very strange.

The only way you can say Catholics are wrong is to say they became apostate and that Jesus was a failure in creating the Church he said would he protect until end of the Ages.

The Church can exist without a Bible, it did. The Bible cannot exist without a Church.

The Church you got cannot exist with a Bible or a Pope. The Pope you have is the head, elder or deacon, the one who hires or fires the preacher. He is the authority in faith and morals in your Church. Ultimately , he will decide what is preached at your church.

BTW , are you or Dave a preacher?
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

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#35
May 9, 2013
 

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Mike Peterson wrote:
It amazes me sometimes, but it shouldn't because I was there too, that Christians who go by the Bible alone have no clue about the History of it, why it was created and how it was created.
First of all Jesus created a Church which is the pillar and foundation of Truth. Nowhere does Jesus or the Apostles mention a Bible or even a NT. The Bible does not mention any either.
For 350 years, Christians were being saved or doomed to hell on the Teaching of the church Jesus left. There were no Bible. That is longer than America has been a country by 100 years.
More and more scriptures were being read in the Churches some of which were not teaching the true doctrine. Hundreds were being circulated.
Another thing that was going on, was the Romans were killing Christians who refused to disavow what the CC was teaching. They had to know what the Truth was so they knew what was worth dying over. They did not want to die over a spurious scripture.
Finally in 382 AD the CC, led by the HS, voted on what scriptures were the inspired and inerrant written words of God.
Some of the Scriptures had no opposition but others were heavily debated about. After it was voted on, there was some dissension. But Jesus left a Church with a man, the successor of Peter , with Authority to decide all things in the areas of Faith and Morals. Pope Damascus made his decree. The Councils of Hippo and Carthage reaffirmed his decision and until today, all Christians, even Protesters agree with that decision the CC made, at least for the NT. Luther later through out 7 books of the OT which the Bible forbid.
Now Protesters try and tell the Church they dont follow the Bible and they created it.
If you really stop and think about it, that is very strange.
The only way you can say Catholics are wrong is to say they became apostate and that Jesus was a failure in creating the Church he said would he protect until end of the Ages.
The Church can exist without a Bible, it did. The Bible cannot exist without a Church.
The Church you got cannot exist with a Bible or a Pope. The Pope you have is the head, elder or deacon, the one who hires or fires the preacher. He is the authority in faith and morals in your Church. Ultimately , he will decide what is preached at your church.
BTW , are you or Dave a preacher?
All of the scripture that are found in the bible are still available. The Catholics only put it all together in one book, they did not create the scripture. If they had not done it some other group would have.

You are taking a lot of liberties saying the church is the catholic church and the only way to salvation is through them! I flat out deny that!
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

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#36
May 9, 2013
 

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Mike, before you came on here I had a lot of respect for Catholics, If what you say is typical of all catholics, then my respect level is dropping. Martin Luther must have had good reasons for writing his "Ninety-Five Theses"
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

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#37
May 9, 2013
 

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Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
All of the scripture that are found in the bible are still available. The Catholics only put it all together in one book, they did not create the scripture. If they had not done it some other group would have.
You are taking a lot of liberties saying the church is the catholic church and the only way to salvation is through them! I flat out deny that!
What group would have put the Bible together other than the CC? There was none for 1500 years. Name one Christian Church other than the CC before 1500. There was none.

The Church existed for 350 years without a Bible. Historical fact proven by simple study of history.

What liberties am I taking? The Study of History of Christianity and the Bible and the writings of the Early Church fathers are taking liberties? You are denying historical facts.

Do you not agree Jesus created a Church that was the pillar and ground of truth? Do you agree that he said it would not fail? What Church is that?

Flat out denying without facts is a personal feeling you have based on your personal interpretation of book created by the CC.

Look up my facts and try and disprove it. I did many years ago. I did not want to be a Catholic, but you have to go where the Truth is. It is provable.

I am not asking you to do anything but research the facts.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

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#38
May 9, 2013
 
Bobby wrote:
Mike, before you came on here I had a lot of respect for Catholics, If what you say is typical of all catholics, then my respect level is dropping. Martin Luther must have had good reasons for writing his "Ninety-Five Theses"
Why is it dropping? Is is because somebody is challenging your belief system.

The Catholics you know probably don't do any apologetic work. Historically, especially in area where they are a very small minority, like I am in, they tend to believe the truth and not are willing to witness and make waves. I was like that.

But the Bible says to spread the Truth. The horde of Protestant Pastors and theologians that that have been converting to the CC in the last 20 years have energized the evangelicalism side of Catholicism. We have performed well in that areas except in the emerging countries.

Dave P

Morehead, KY

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#39
May 9, 2013
 

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Mike Peterson wrote:
It amazes me sometimes, but it shouldn't because I was there too, that Christians who go by the Bible alone have no clue about the History of it, why it was created and how it was created.
First of all Jesus created a Church which is the pillar and foundation of Truth. Nowhere does Jesus or the Apostles mention a Bible or even a NT. The Bible does not mention any either.

Finally in 382 AD the CC, led by the HS, voted on what scriptures were the inspired and inerrant written words of God.
Some of the Scriptures had no opposition but others were heavily debated about. After it was voted on, there was some dissension. But Jesus left a Church with a man, the successor of Peter , with Authority to decide all things in the areas of Faith and Morals. Pope Damascus made his decree. The Councils of Hippo and Carthage reaffirmed his decision and until today, all Christians, even Protesters agree with that decision the CC made, at least for the NT. Luther later through out 7 books of the OT which the Bible forbid.
Now Protesters try and tell the Church they dont follow the Bible and they created it.
If you really stop and think about it, that is very strange.
The only way you can say Catholics are wrong is to say they became apostate and that Jesus was a failure in creating the Church he said would he protect until end of the Ages.
The Church can exist without a Bible, it did. The Bible cannot exist without a Church.
The Church you got cannot exist with a Bible or a Pope. The Pope you have is the head, elder or deacon, the one who hires or fires the preacher. He is the authority in faith and morals in your Church. Ultimately , he will decide what is preached at your church.
BTW , are you or Dave a preacher?
This is completely erroneous Mike. It is too bad you refuse to see it. First, an apostle DOES mention the scripture. Peter did, and he acknowledged back in the mid 60s AD that the things Paul wrote were scripture.

Peter was not left with authority to decide faith and morals, as can be easily seen through reading the scriptures. God inspired the scriptures to be written, and He decided what was scripture and what was not. No human being had that authority.

The only way you can say Catholics are wrong is to say they became apostate and that Jesus was a failure in creating the Church he said would he protect until end of the Ages.

*The catholic organization is apostate. Jesus didn't fail-He created His church and it still exists. It is universal or catholic-but it isn't "Catholic". The Catholic church has deviated from Bible truth. She is a harlot. There is a church today that's universal and people are in it. But its not the RCC.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

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#40
May 9, 2013
 
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
This is completely erroneous Mike. It is too bad you refuse to see it. First, an apostle DOES mention the scripture. Peter did, and he acknowledged back in the mid 60s AD that the things Paul wrote were scripture.
Peter was not left with authority to decide faith and morals, as can be easily seen through reading the scriptures. God inspired the scriptures to be written, and He decided what was scripture and what was not. No human being had that authority.
The only way you can say Catholics are wrong is to say they became apostate and that Jesus was a failure in creating the Church he said would he protect until end of the Ages.
*The catholic organization is apostate. Jesus didn't fail-He created His church and it still exists. It is universal or catholic-but it isn't "Catholic". The Catholic church has deviated from Bible truth. She is a harlot. There is a church today that's universal and people are in it. But its not the RCC.
I never said an Apostle never mentioned scripture. I said the Apostles or Jesus never mentioned the Bible or NT and not one of the scriptures that made it into the Bible said it was inspired and inerrant. Only John in Revelation mentioned that he had dream from God.

What is strange , is Revelation is one of the books that was hotly debated over. So was 2nd and 3rd John.

What did John say about Pauls writings?

14 Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, 15 and regard the patience of our Lord to be salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, 16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. 17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard lest, being carried away by the error of unprincipled men, you fall from your own steadfastness, 18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

What is John saying? Paul is hard to understand and one must be taught. Taught by who? The Church which is the pillar of Truth and hold steadfast to that teaching.

You say Jesus did not fail. I totally agree with you. The only Christian Church since 32 AD to today is the CC. He has kept his promise. The CC did not become apostate. Jesus did not fail.

If there was another, you should be able to name at least 1 member from 100 AD to 1500 AD.

A human being has always had Authority on Earth since Abraham. Why would Jesus change that and create the chaos that the non Catholic Christian communities have today.

The CC came before the Bible and created it. How could it deviate from it? It is only part of the Word of God. Tradition is the other and the Church has the fullness of both. Jesus said so.

Can you have a Church without a Bible. Yes, we did for 350 years. But you cant have a Bible without a Church to teach you with the Authority the truth given to her by God.

Dave, I believe you said you are a preacher. I have a question for you that I hear from the multitude of protestant preachers and theologians converting to the CC, if you are.

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