Dave P

Lexington, KY

#122 Jun 4, 2013
William wrote:
"Traditions aren't necessarily sinful. The problem is what people do with them."
Like burning couches and throwing toilet paper after big wins?
:)
Yup. Or poisoning the Toomer trees because Auburn won. Roll Dang Tide!
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#123 Jun 5, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Isn't the AENT translated from Greek to Aramaic to English. The Apostles wrote in Greek didn't they, and talked in Aramaic?
Jesus and the apostles spoke Aramaic and Hebrew was used at the Jewish assemblies. Some of it was originally Hebrew, and much was Aramaic, which was the common language at their time. All the books of the NT to the East were in Aramaic, and they preserved their texts as received. Perhaps only Paul wrote in Greek, Matthew may have been Hebrew, and the bulk of the rest were Aramaic. If Jerome, who put the NT together for the CC said no one knew at his time (AD 350) who had translated them into Greek - well, that speaks volumes from every angle. Who? What slant did they have? Were they true to the original? Did they consider the books to be 'Scripture'- where they even disciples? Truth has a way of coming out in time. Why the total removal of His actual given name? It should be obvious.

Someone still wants people to be in the dark and believing half truths instead of the whole truth.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#124 Jun 5, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
No, the real authority is to recognize that all authority has been given to Master YHWY Y'shua. When God has spoken, that is THE authority. Even the apostles authority was to confirm His word was recalled to give to us today, as it was to them almost 2000 years ago. As God said from the beginning -'Choose life that you may live.'
Look that one up.
No man binds anything upon God. God is not mocked. God cannot lie. The teachings of God have been preserved, though some sought to change them and even the name of the Son of God.
No, the truth still exists today - no thanks to the RCC or their Latin or Greek translations.
The Apostles wrote in Greek. There is no original Aramaic version of the New Testament or original Aramaic version of the Bible because the New Testament was composed entirely in Greek.

Based on that translation He didn't die for our sins, he died because of them

Do you beleive that?
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#125 Jun 5, 2013
With a mind for details, one can still find the matter in the Greek translations if you can suspend temporarily the writings of Paul, as translated from the Greek, and look only what Jesus, Matthew, John, Peter, James and Jude wrote.

Since Paul wrote so many books that we have come to rely on heavily regarding the gospel theology, it's not easy to put everything he wrote on a side bar - but if you want to know what Jesus (Y'shua) taught - actually taught - it's a very needful thing to do. Focus on what He said.

A lot of the issues today stemmed from differing viewpoints based on what Paul wrote as translated from the Greek or Latin. The problem is that Paul was a severe Rabbinical Pharisee, and we don't understand the reality of what he was saying if the things were actually deeper than we grasp. Plus the matter of trying to explain too many things that should be a simple matter or believe it and do it VS thinking we need to understand all the mechanism of it to do it... Paul pretty much complicated things and then people over simplified it - and gutted the gospel of the conditions that the Son of God put on the truth, faith and grace.

I'm still digging....;-)
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#126 Jun 5, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
The Apostles wrote in Greek. There is no original Aramaic version of the New Testament or original Aramaic version of the Bible because the New Testament was composed entirely in Greek.
Based on that translation He didn't die for our sins, he died because of them
Do you beleive that?
When you die, tell that to the multitudes who died for the faith based on the Aramaic NT. If Jerome himself said no one knew who had translated the books into Greek - are you saying he lied? And if Jerome, the librarian and supreme editor of the NT Western Edition, if he lied - how can you trust the Bible record you claim to have today????

Do I need to supply you with the exact quote from Jerome?
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#127 Jun 5, 2013
"Behold the Lamb of God"

Do you believe that?;-)
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#128 Jun 5, 2013
Jerome (382 CE):
'Matthew, who is also Levi, and from a tax collector came to be an emissary first of all evangelists composed a Gospel of Messiah in Judea in the Hebrew language and letters for the benefit of those of the circumcision who had believed, who translated it into Greek is not sufficiently ascertained. Furthermore, the Hebrew itself is preserved to this day in the library at Caesarea, which is the martyr Pamphilus so diligently collected. I also was allowed by the Nazarenes who use this volume in the Syrian city of Borea to copy it. In which it is to be remarked that, wherever the evangelist...makes use of the testimonies of the Old Scripture, he does not follow the authority of the seventy translators (a.k.a. the Spetuagint) but that of the Hebrew.'
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#129 Jun 5, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
With a mind for details, one can still find the matter in the Greek translations if you can suspend temporarily the writings of Paul, as translated from the Greek, and look only what Jesus, Matthew, John, Peter, James and Jude wrote.
Since Paul wrote so many books that we have come to rely on heavily regarding the gospel theology, it's not easy to put everything he wrote on a side bar - but if you want to know what Jesus (Y'shua) taught - actually taught - it's a very needful thing to do. Focus on what He said.
A lot of the issues today stemmed from differing viewpoints based on what Paul wrote as translated from the Greek or Latin. The problem is that Paul was a severe Rabbinical Pharisee, and we don't understand the reality of what he was saying if the things were actually deeper than we grasp. Plus the matter of trying to explain too many things that should be a simple matter or believe it and do it VS thinking we need to understand all the mechanism of it to do it... Paul pretty much complicated things and then people over simplified it - and gutted the gospel of the conditions that the Son of God put on the truth, faith and grace.
I'm still digging....;-)
Great defense of Tradition (written and oral)+ Authority.

SS gutted the gospel.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#130 Jun 5, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
"Behold the Lamb of God"
Do you believe that?;-)
Yes

John:

28
This happened in Bethany across the Jordan, 20 where John was baptizing.
29
The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God, 21 who takes away the sin of the world.

And my response to this from Matthew at the Mass is:

Lord, I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof; but only say the word and my soul will be healed.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#131 Jun 5, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
Jerome (382 CE):
'Matthew, who is also Levi, and from a tax collector came to be an emissary first of all evangelists composed a Gospel of Messiah in Judea in the Hebrew language and letters for the benefit of those of the circumcision who had believed, who translated it into Greek is not sufficiently ascertained. Furthermore, the Hebrew itself is preserved to this day in the library at Caesarea, which is the martyr Pamphilus so diligently collected. I also was allowed by the Nazarenes who use this volume in the Syrian city of Borea to copy it. In which it is to be remarked that, wherever the evangelist...makes use of the testimonies of the Old Scripture, he does not follow the authority of the seventy translators (a.k.a. the Spetuagint) but that of the Hebrew.'
Not familiar with this quote so I can't

But is does appear that Matthew wrote in the Hebrew dialect of Aramaic, but the originals do not exist like all of scriptures.

The NT is still basically a work in the Greek language.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#132 Jun 5, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes
John:
28
This happened in Bethany across the Jordan, 20 where John was baptizing.
29
The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God, 21 who takes away the sin of the world.
And my response to this from Matthew at the Mass is:
Lord, I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof; but only say the word and my soul will be healed.
What can I do, but agree that this is absolutely true:-)
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#133 Jun 5, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Not familiar with this quote so I can't
But is does appear that Matthew wrote in the Hebrew dialect of Aramaic, but the originals do not exist like all of scriptures.
The NT is still basically a work in the Greek language.
No, it was originally Hebrew and Aramaic for the most part. Some of Pauls' writings to the Gentiles may have been Greek, but that's about it. The gospel on the first day revealed by the Holy Spirit was spoken in more than on tongue. It's been that way from the start - so why revise history and gospel facts? It's best to just return to love the Lord on His terms, since they were already given to man. Even Paul was incapable to bind anything upon God.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#134 Jun 5, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Great defense of Tradition (written and oral)+ Authority.
SS gutted the gospel.
No, Catholicism gutted the scripture and thus twisted the gospel!

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#135 Jun 12, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
Better repent before Heath and Johnny find out, going to an unauthorized candlelight service. Participating in good ol' "will worship" are you JC?
Dont know what should be repented of? Im confused. Please enlighten me, with candles or other light please.:)

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#136 Jun 12, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you saying that all of the scriptures read in the first century Christian Church should be inspired.?
What about the Didache?
Letter of Clement?
Shepherd of Hermas?
The Epistle of Baranbas?
Gospel of Thomas?
Gospel of Marcion?
Book of Baruch?
Letter of Jeremiah?
Many many more. That is why the Church had to finally decide on the Cannon.
Invest in a Good history of how the bible was created. It might shock you.
"Hey if you vote for Revelation I will vote for 1 John"
Ok I can now see that you have very little idea how the inspired words became inspired. Now think. I know that is hard to do but try it. Come on how did the text become inspired. How did those that read the letters know they were inspired of God?
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#137 Jun 12, 2013
We should consider gospel accounts given by the disciples of Y'shua, and in doing that, reject those that were only purported to be by original disciples. From all I've seen to date, I think Jerome did as good a job as could be done in his day. I wonder if Mike Peterson has put the same tests Jerome used to the texts he mentions to consider? And if he thinks Jerome made a mistake, for one, I'd be interested to hear his defense for the book in question. That might be an interesting discussion.

We can see that date is not the necessary seal of approval - but also doctrine: does it line up with the record of what He taught as recorded by those who have long been accepted writings from original disciples of the Lord.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#138 Jun 12, 2013
Writings from Peter, John and Paul evidence early apostasy from the original gospel message by those who refused the truth.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#139 Jun 12, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok I can now see that you have very little idea how the inspired words became inspired. Now think. I know that is hard to do but try it. Come on how did the text become inspired. How did those that read the letters know they were inspired of God?
Leaders of the Catholic Church had a meeting in 382 AD and decided between roughly 300 scriptures which were inspired and which were not.

Most were readily agreed on but around 14 were very hotly contested.

Some of them, the authors were not really know.

Men "voted" on them just like a jury in a trial. Just like the supreme court on a law.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#140 Jun 12, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
We should consider gospel accounts given by the disciples of Y'shua, and in doing that, reject those that were only purported to be by original disciples. From all I've seen to date, I think Jerome did as good a job as could be done in his day. I wonder if Mike Peterson has put the same tests Jerome used to the texts he mentions to consider? And if he thinks Jerome made a mistake, for one, I'd be interested to hear his defense for the book in question. That might be an interesting discussion.
We can see that date is not the necessary seal of approval - but also doctrine: does it line up with the record of what He taught as recorded by those who have long been accepted writings from original disciples of the Lord.
I think this is excellent subject. This is one area my eyes were opened in my conversion. It comes from my study of the Bible history. I am no bible scholar. I read it every day and I read from the scriptures at Mass sometimes. I follow Church teaching.

I will have to get back on this one. Headed out.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#141 Jun 12, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Leaders of the Catholic Church had a meeting in 382 AD and decided between roughly 300 scriptures which were inspired and which were not.
Most were readily agreed on but around 14 were very hotly contested.
Some of them, the authors were not really know.
Men "voted" on them just like a jury in a trial. Just like the supreme court on a law.
Nope and that is not how the people before that group came together KNEW the written letters were Inspired. Now THINK. How would a group of people receiving a letter from many people only come up with one of those letters being inspired. NOW THINK dont go back to that RCC stuff.

Fact the first century people KNEW which letter was inspired and perseved it. WHY?

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