What is the gospel - really?

Since: Jan 10

Royse City

#41 May 27, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>So what happened with your Church between 100 AD and 1800 AD?
Nothing

I don't have a church.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#42 May 27, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
I have done a lot of thinking trying to analyze the differences this group has, including Mike. I believe we would all have to agree that Jesus-his death burial and resurrection is the gospel. I am beginning to see that the differences is in how we each see the application of the gospel, how it applies to us as individuals. Is it a gift? Is it a gift with conditions-what would be the conditions. Is it earned, how is it earned. At what point is the blood applied, etc. All of us are believers in Christ from what I can see.
I have to see it more broadly, to include His teachings, as this is what He taught - discipleship and being faithful hearers and doers of His teachings. Further backed up by the Genesis 5 prophecy and the Acts 3 quote from Moses. The primary reason is it is proven true through the death burial and resurrection, but that doesn't make the proof point the only point of the gospel of God.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#43 May 28, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
I have to see it more broadly, to include His teachings, as this is what He taught - discipleship and being faithful hearers and doers of His teachings. Further backed up by the Genesis 5 prophecy and the Acts 3 quote from Moses. The primary reason is it is proven true through the death burial and resurrection, but that doesn't make the proof point the only point of the gospel of God.
Would you say this is part of the gospel:

Synopsis of Mormon Salvation

You cannot be saved in your sins,(The Book of Mormon, Alma 11:37).

By grace you are saved, after all you can do,(2 Nephi 25:23).

You must give your best,(The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p.354.)

You must deny yourselves of all ungodliness,(Moroni 10:32).

Turn from all former sins and commit them no more,(Teachings of the Presidents of the Church: Wilford Woodruff, pp.71-72).

If you commit any past sin again, the former sins return,(D&C 82:7).

Therefore, in order to remain forgiven you must never commit the sin again,(Mormon Missionary Discussion F, Uniform System for Teaching Families. 1981, p.36).

My guess is that Joseph Smith was taking these issues from the catholic philosophy-no one knows for sure they will be saved.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#44 May 28, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
I think there is a fine line between the word "earning" our salvation. I doubt the the rcc would ever admit that they can earn their salvation but they always connect works as being necessary even to the point of working their way out of purgatory. That is changing the meaning of the word earn. We cannot say "we do not earn our salvation" and then go about life as though we can. That is saying one thing and doing something to the contrary.
Please expound on what you mean by "go about life as though we can".
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#45 May 28, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
Would you say this is part of the gospel:
Synopsis of Mormon Salvation
You cannot be saved in your sins,(The Book of Mormon, Alma 11:37).
By grace you are saved, after all you can do,(2 Nephi 25:23).
You must give your best,(The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p.354.)
You must deny yourselves of all ungodliness,(Moroni 10:32).
Turn from all former sins and commit them no more,(Teachings of the Presidents of the Church: Wilford Woodruff, pp.71-72).
If you commit any past sin again, the former sins return,(D&C 82:7).
Therefore, in order to remain forgiven you must never commit the sin again,(Mormon Missionary Discussion F, Uniform System for Teaching Families. 1981, p.36).
My guess is that Joseph Smith was taking these issues from the catholic philosophy-no one knows for sure they will be saved.
Yes, they deliberately deceive themselves, as do the rest of the Churches that don't abide in His word. Are they more wrong than other Churches that don't teach discipleship to Jesus as a requirement -t that we are to hear whatever He taught?
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#46 May 28, 2013
Teaching faith without works is to teach a dead faith...?;-)

True or false?

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#47 May 28, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
Teaching faith without works is to teach a dead faith...?;-)
True or false?
true

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#48 May 28, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
Teaching faith without works is to teach a dead faith...?;-)
True or false?
There is not one passage from the bible that says faith alone can save a person. true or false?
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#49 May 28, 2013
HEATH - 72 wrote:
<quoted text>
Nothing
I don't have a church.
Why do you advertise Royce city COC?
Dave P

Versailles, KY

#50 May 28, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you advertise Royce city COC?
Because it's the one true church Mike.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#51 May 28, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, they deliberately deceive themselves, as do the rest of the Churches that don't abide in His word. Are they more wrong than other Churches that don't teach discipleship to Jesus as a requirement -t that we are to hear whatever He taught?
I remember you telling me that Mormons were good at obeying.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#52 May 28, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
Teaching faith without works is to teach a dead faith...?;-)
True or false?
I believe that works are what we were created in Christ to do, don't you? Eph 2:10

On the other hand the rcc/Mike can do everything they know to do in regard to works and still fear that they may be lost.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#53 May 28, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
Please expound on what you mean by "go about life as though we can".
If you have been up to date on what Mike and the cc believe about purgatory, you would know that they believe they must go to purgatory to do penance.

1. An act of self-mortification or devotion performed voluntarily to show sorrow for a sin or other wrongdoing.
2. A sacrament in some Christian churches that includes contrition, confession to a priest, acceptance of punishment, and absolution. Also called reconciliation.

How can they go through life saying they cannot earn their salvation when the exact opposite is what they are actually doing.
Mike Peterson

United States

#54 May 28, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe that works are what we were created in Christ to do, don't you? Eph 2:10
On the other hand the rcc/Mike can do everything they know to do in regard to works and still fear that they may be lost.
If you are baptized and don't die in a state of mortal sin you can have a confident assurance of going to heaven. We know faith with no works wont get there.

Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#55 May 28, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
There is not one passage from the bible that says faith alone can save a person. true or false?
I'd say that's true too:-)
Mike Peterson

United States

#56 May 28, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
If you have been up to date on what Mike and the cc believe about purgatory, you would know that they believe they must go to purgatory to do penance.
1. An act of self-mortification or devotion performed voluntarily to show sorrow for a sin or other wrongdoing.
2. A sacrament in some Christian churches that includes contrition, confession to a priest, acceptance of punishment, and absolution. Also called reconciliation.
How can they go through life saying they cannot earn their salvation when the exact opposite is what they are actually doing.
James 5 says to confess your sins to another.
Jesus told Peter and the Church whatever sins you forgive are forgiven.....

You have to confess your sins to the Church for Jesus to forgive them.

Do you confess you sins to one another?
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#57 May 28, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
I remember you telling me that Mormons were good at obeying.
But obeying whom? The issue resides with their belief that following the President of the LDS Church equates with following Jesus. I think the fact that the Apostles followed Jesus and told us to do likewise - rather than obeying any man.

LDS is Jesus-Lite;-)
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#58 May 28, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe that works are what we were created in Christ to do, don't you? Eph 2:10
On the other hand the rcc/Mike can do everything they know to do in regard to works and still fear that they may be lost.
Judgment begins with the house of God, and if the righteous are scarcely saved ...

At this stage of apostasy from the Original Gospel - how much should we count on not knowing the truth as a defense? I'd rather accept the truth and do the best I can and trust in His mercy towards those that seek to do His will...
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#59 May 28, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
If you are baptized and don't die in a state of mortal sin you can have a confident assurance of going to heaven. We know faith with no works wont get there.
This is rather vague, it does not specifically mention blaspheming the holy spirit. Sounds to me like the cc priest makes the decision as to what it is.

"Mortal sin destroys charity in the heart of man by a grave violation of God's law; it turns man away from God, who is his ultimate end and his beatitude, by preferring an inferior good to him." (C.C.C.# 1855)

"Mortal sin, by attacking the vital principle within us - that is, charity - necessitates a new initiative of God's mercy and a conversion of heart which is normally accomplished within the setting of the Sacrament of Confession." (C.C.C.# 1856)

"Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the private of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance of God's forgiveness, it causes exclusion to make choices for ever, with no turning back. However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God." (C.C.C.# 1861)

"To choose deliberately - that is, both knowing it and willing it - something gravely contrary to the divine law and to the ultimate end of man is to commit a mortal sin. This destroys in us the charity without which eternal beatitude is impossible. Unrepented, it brings eternal death." (C.C.C.# 1874)
Mike Peterson

United States

#60 May 28, 2013
I had a very close friend who has died who was a priest. I specifically asked him him about your first sentence.

The penitent must confess each and every serious sin, that is anything which separates him from Christ. If the priest judges he is truly sorry, He must absolve since Christ's Passion merited forgiveness for every repentant sinner. Only if the person shows no willingness to give up sin does the priest retain, that is withhold absolution, as we "do not give what is holy to dogs" (Mt 7:6).

The priests have had 2000 years of previous experience that is taught to them to know this.,

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