Drawing the line where God draws it
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#61 May 31, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
I've checked it out several times and have a cousin who converted to the Catholic faith from Methodism. More recent Catholic adoptions to the once for all delivered faith prevent me from worship there. I can bypass icons, but am drawn to trust His word as imperishable by any means. He said those who abide in Him and His words of life are His friends, mother, brothers, sisters - His family. So the Mary veneration seems to say you don't really believe God wants to hear from you personally? that an advocate is needed from one who has died already? Doesn't make sense that this is true if God is capable to know about every sparrow - let alone us who are His....
There are some things we don't differ on wildly, and some that are nearly alike, and some as mentioned above that have been a primary stumbling block - plus the Pope issues. Jesus is who we are to hear.
I am with you on this...
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#62 May 31, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
I've checked it out several times and have a cousin who converted to the Catholic faith from Methodism. More recent Catholic adoptions to the once for all delivered faith prevent me from worship there. I can bypass icons, but am drawn to trust His word as imperishable by any means. He said those who abide in Him and His words of life are His friends, mother, brothers, sisters - His family. So the Mary veneration seems to say you don't really believe God wants to hear from you personally? that an advocate is needed from one who has died already? Doesn't make sense that this is true if God is capable to know about every sparrow - let alone us who are His....
There are some things we don't differ on wildly, and some that are nearly alike, and some as mentioned above that have been a primary stumbling block - plus the Pope issues. Jesus is who we are to hear.
So I assume you do not ask anybody to pray for you. Do you think Blessed Mary is dead?(BTW . The Written Word of God tells you to call her blessed, why do Prots ignore that verse.

So you don't believe in eternal life? People are dead in heaven?

Jesus is of course who we hear. Did he start a Church or write a Bible. Is the Bible the pillar of truth or the Church?

Whoever hears his Church hears him? Did not he say these things?
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

#63 Jun 1, 2013
No, that isn't what He said. If you want to know my perspectives on Jesus, you can check my web site and see if there is anything you disagree on that we might discuss. Perhaps the most focus us on three pages:

Introduction - Who Loves Jesus?
page on 'What did Jesus Say (about His teachings)
and 'Original Jesus'

onediscipletoanother.org

I've noted all His teachings in 'The List', and what I heard was teaching to original disciples the doctrine of God, then charging them to make disciples of Him and teach them whatever He had first taught them, specifically the need to keep His commandments. I take a broader view to say we need to believe all His teachings and promises and warnings and commandments. I'd lump precepts in with teachings/doctrines.

If I've missed something that He taught, please do show me where it is!

Thanks!
William

Eastaboga, AL

#64 Jun 1, 2013
"True doctrine is to observe all teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ."

Jesus told a rich young man to sell what he had and give to the poor in order to be perfect.

How come no one has obeyed Jesus? Y'all are posting from phones and computers that you own, drive cars, and probably own all kinds of stuff. I know I do.

How come none of us love Jesus and want to be perfect? Follow what The Man said to do, right?
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#65 Jun 1, 2013
William wrote:
"True doctrine is to observe all teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ."
Jesus told a rich young man to sell what he had and give to the poor in order to be perfect.
How come no one has obeyed Jesus? Y'all are posting from phones and computers that you own, drive cars, and probably own all kinds of stuff. I know I do.
How come none of us love Jesus and want to be perfect? Follow what The Man said to do, right?
The young rich man's problem is consistent within all of us-"for all have sinned and all fall short of God's glory".
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#66 Jun 1, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
No, that isn't what He said. If you want to know my perspectives on Jesus, you can check my web site and see if there is anything you disagree on that we might discuss. Perhaps the most focus us on three pages:
Introduction - Who Loves Jesus?
page on 'What did Jesus Say (about His teachings)
and 'Original Jesus'
onediscipletoanother.org
I've noted all His teachings in 'The List', and what I heard was teaching to original disciples the doctrine of God, then charging them to make disciples of Him and teach them whatever He had first taught them, specifically the need to keep His commandments. I take a broader view to say we need to believe all His teachings and promises and warnings and commandments. I'd lump precepts in with teachings/doctrines.
If I've missed something that He taught, please do show me where it is!
Thanks!
He taught unless you eat his flesh and drink his blood you have no life in you.

He taught his Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth.

He taught that upon Peter he would build his Church and Satan would not prevail.

He did not teach Sola Scriptura.
William

Birmingham, AL

#67 Jun 1, 2013
The young rich man's problem is consistent within all of us-"for all have sinned and all fall short of God's glory".

That is true. So was Jesus just yucking it up with the rich dude when he told him to sell his possessions and give them to the poor so that he could be perfect?

The Man said what he said, and if we are to "observe all teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ" as I read earlier on a website linked here, then we are all SOL.

But I suspect that that is not the case. At least for some of us.
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#68 Jun 1, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
He taught unless you eat his flesh and drink his blood you have no life in you.
He taught his Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth.
He taught that upon Peter he would build his Church and Satan would not prevail.
He did not teach Sola Scriptura.
Dodgeball. You been hanging out with "JustChristian"?
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#69 Jun 1, 2013
William wrote:
The young rich man's problem is consistent within all of us-"for all have sinned and all fall short of God's glory".
That is true. So was Jesus just yucking it up with the rich dude when he told him to sell his possessions and give them to the poor so that he could be perfect?
The Man said what he said, and if we are to "observe all teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ" as I read earlier on a website linked here, then we are all SOL.
But I suspect that that is not the case. At least for some of us.
There is a principle involved in this story for us too, don't you think?

But, you also said that "If we are to observe all teachings and commandments of Christ we are all out of luck." Elaborate some please-I think I know where you're going, but I'll let you go there.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#70 Jun 2, 2013
William wrote:
The young rich man's problem is consistent within all of us-"for all have sinned and all fall short of God's glory".
That is true. So was Jesus just yucking it up with the rich dude when he told him to sell his possessions and give them to the poor so that he could be perfect?
The Man said what he said, and if we are to "observe all teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ" as I read earlier on a website linked here, then we are all SOL.
But I suspect that that is not the case. At least for some of us.
That is why Jesus instituted the Sacrament of Penance. Everyone sins and comes short. We are not SOL.

"Whatever sins you forgive are forgiven, whatever are not are not"

Jesus' own words.

"Confess your sins to one another." We do at every Mass.

I confess to almighty God, and to you, my brothers and sisters, that I have sinned through my own fault, in my thoughts and in my words, in what I have done, and in what I have failed to do; and I ask blessed Mary, ever virgin, all the angels and saints, and you, my brothers and sisters, to pray for me to the Lord our God.
William

Birmingham, AL

#71 Jun 2, 2013
Mike/Dave, have either of you sold your possessions and goods and given them to the poor in order to be perfect? Because that is what The Boss said.

Yes or no, please.
William

Birmingham, AL

#72 Jun 2, 2013
"Jesus' own words."

He said to the rich young ruler to sell his possessions and goods and give them to the poor, in order to be perfect.

Jesus' own words. If we "love and follow Jesus" and have "taken up our cross to follow him" and "love God with all our heart, soul, and mind" then surely we can sell our possessions and goods and give them to the poor.

Mike, has the RCC done this? Lead by example, etc? How much is the Vatican worth today?
William

Birmingham, AL

#73 Jun 2, 2013
I'll save you the trouble of answering.

The answer is "no, we have not sold our possessions and goods and given them to the poor, in order to be perfect." Not anyone in the RCC, the CoC, the Methodist, Baptists, anyone.

ANYONE.

And besides, if anyone did do this, they would boast about it, and we all know that they would. What did Paul say about "boasting being excluded?"

So what's the deal here?

Christ was in effect telling the rich young man that there was no way that he could be righteous based on what he could ever do. And by extension of that, there is nothing that any of us can ever "do" to be righteous. We HAVE to trust what Christ did for us, and trust that ALONE for salvation.

Christ ALONE died for our sins.
Christ ALONE was buried.
Christ ALONE was resurrected for our justification.

Or are you still "running to James 2" to try and justify yourselves with your works, like the people in James 1:1 were instructed to do?

So, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling now. Are you justified by the faith OF Jesus Christ (Galatians 2:16), or your own faith?
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

#74 Jun 2, 2013
William wrote:
"True doctrine is to observe all teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ."
Jesus told a rich young man to sell what he had and give to the poor in order to be perfect.
How come no one has obeyed Jesus? Y'all are posting from phones and computers that you own, drive cars, and probably own all kinds of stuff. I know I do.
How come none of us love Jesus and want to be perfect? Follow what The Man said to do, right?
Because I make no pretension to perfection, and I'm not rich either:-) We need to use some common sense here, William:-)

God is mindful of who we are and doesn't require perfection.
William

Birmingham, AL

#75 Jun 2, 2013
"Because I make no pretension to perfection, and I'm not rich either:-) We need to use some common sense here, William:-)"

On your website, you state the following:

"True doctrine is to observe all teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ."

ALL teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ, is what you said.

Jesus Christ told the rich man to sell his possessions and goods and give them to the poor, in order to be perfect. Have you done this? Have you observed ALL teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ, as you yourself tout on your website?

I strongly suspect that the answer is "no", which leaves you in quite the pickle.

;)
William

Birmingham, AL

#76 Jun 2, 2013
Shall I examine your website further for what it says?

;)
William

Birmingham, AL

#77 Jun 2, 2013
"True doctrine is to observe ALL teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ."

Luke 5:12-14 (KJV)

12 And it came to pass, when he was in a certain city, behold a man full of leprosy: who seeing Jesus fell on his face, and besought him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.

13 And he put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will: be thou clean. And immediately the leprosy departed from him.

14 And he charged him to tell no man: but go, and shew thyself to the priest, and offer for thy cleansing, according as Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

Barnsy, Jesus Christ told this leper after healed him to go and offer a sacrifice for his cleansing.

Q: Where do you suggest someone today go and do that? And who would they offer the sacrifice to if they did do it?

"True doctrine is to observe all teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ."

That's what you said, right?

;)
William

Birmingham, AL

#78 Jun 2, 2013
And ...$20 says that you go and edit that website real soon.

;)
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#79 Jun 2, 2013
William wrote:
Mike/Dave, have either of you sold your possessions and goods and given them to the poor in order to be perfect? Because that is what The Boss said.
Yes or no, please.
No not all of them.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#80 Jun 2, 2013
William wrote:
"Jesus' own words."
He said to the rich young ruler to sell his possessions and goods and give them to the poor, in order to be perfect.
Jesus' own words. If we "love and follow Jesus" and have "taken up our cross to follow him" and "love God with all our heart, soul, and mind" then surely we can sell our possessions and goods and give them to the poor.
Mike, has the RCC done this? Lead by example, etc? How much is the Vatican worth today?
It is estimated that the Vatican could sell everything it owns and it would be enough to feed every hungry person in the world one day.

Then the Church would have nothing and hungry would still be with us.

Sounds very familiar to the dialogue between Judas and Jesus. Judas chastised for the expensive oils and fragrances being used on Jesus. Judas said that could be sold for the poor. Jesus said the poor will always be with you.

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