Refuting the Church of Christ view of...

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#61 Jul 30, 2014
Why did the Church put Philemon in the Bible? You ever read it?

1 From Paul, a prisoner of Christ Jesus and from our brother Timothy; to our dear fellow worker Philemon,

2 our sister Apphia, our fellow soldier Archippus and the church that meets in your house.

3 Grace and the peace of God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

4 I always thank my God, mentioning you in my prayers,

5 because I hear of the love and the faith which you have for the Lord Jesus and for all God's holy people.

6 I pray that your fellowship in faith may come to expression in full knowledge of all the good we can do for Christ.

7 I have received much joy and encouragement by your love; you have set the hearts of God's holy people at rest.

8 Therefore, although in Christ I have no hesitations about telling you what your duty is,

9 I am rather appealing to your love, being what I am, Paul, an old man, and now also a prisoner of Christ Jesus.

10 I am appealing to you for a child of mine, whose father I became while wearing these chains: I mean Onesimus.

11 He was of no use to you before, but now he is useful both to you and to me.

12 I am sending him back to you -- that is to say, sending you my own heart.

13 I should have liked to keep him with me; he could have been a substitute for you, to help me while I am in the chains that the gospel has brought me.

14 However, I did not want to do anything without your consent; it would have been forcing your act of kindness, which should be spontaneous.

15 I suppose you have been deprived of Onesimus for a time, merely so that you could have him back for ever,

16 no longer as a slave, but something much better than a slave, a dear brother; especially dear to me, but how much more to you, both on the natural plane and in the Lord.

17 So if you grant me any fellowship with yourself, welcome him as you would me;

18 if he has wronged you in any way or owes you anything, put it down to my account.

19 I am writing this in my own hand: I, Paul, shall pay it back -- I make no mention of a further debt, that you owe your very self to me!

20 Well then, brother, I am counting on you, in the Lord; set my heart at rest, in Christ.

21 I am writing with complete confidence in your compliance, sure that you will do even more than I ask.

22 There is another thing: will you get a place ready for me to stay in? I am hoping through your prayers to be restored to you.

23 Epaphras, a prisoner with me in Christ Jesus, sends his greetings;

24 so do my fellow-workers Mark, Aristarchus, Demas and Luke.

25 May the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit.
William

Birmingham, AL

#62 Jul 30, 2014
Mike_Peterson wrote:
The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth. Not a book.

Please show where Jesus built his Church on a book.
Too bad it's not your particular church. Or rather, thank God.

How many different bibles are you guys up to now? 9? 14? More?
Randy

Martinsville, VA

#63 Jul 31, 2014
Mike_Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
There is not one teaching the Church has that contradicts anything in the Bible.
Mike, there ONE mediator between God and man. Jesus. You guys teach Mary is co-redeemer which the scriptures does not teach thus a contradiction. The Pope teaches that Mary is the mediator between God and man. Catholics also engage in more praising of Mary than Jesus Christ himself and actually pray to her to have their prayers answered. "For there is ONE God, and ONE mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." 1 Timothy 2:5

Furthermore:

1. Praying repetitive words using Rosary beads: Maybe you can tell us about Mary appearing to St. Dominic in 1208 AD ;-)
2. Virgin Mary: Catholics are taught the virgin Mary never had sex after Jesus was born and that Jesus had no brothers and sisters
3. 1200-1970 AD, Roman Catholics laity were forbidden to drink the blood
4. All Christians are saints
5. All Christians are priests
6. Peter was married
7. Latin Mass: For over 1000 years, the Roman Catholic church often conducts their mass services entirely in the Latin language, when no one sitting in the pews understands the Latin language
8. Worshipping idols, icons and images violates the 2nd commandment: Catholics regularly bow down to idols, icons and images of Jesus, Mary and the apostles, kissing the feet of the statues and praying to them
9. Baptism is full immersion in water, not sprinkling: Not Until 757 AD did the church accept sprinkling in such sick-bed cases of necessity. It wasn't until 1311 AD, when the Catholic council of Ravenna, declared that sprinkling was and acceptable substitute for immersion and from that time forward sprinkling replaced immersion in the Roman Catholic church. The Orthodox church refused sprinkling and still immerses to this day.
10. Original sin: Catholics say that infants inherit their parent's sin at conception and are therefore spiritually condemned and totally wicked

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#64 Jul 31, 2014
William wrote:
<quoted text>
Too bad it's not your particular church. Or rather, thank God.
How many different bibles are you guys up to now? 9? 14? More?
Which one did he start? I will give you a new name called Rock, first person in history to be called Rock, and I will be Church on you.

As long as you have the ' whole" Bible and somebody to teach you. In fact, you really don't need a Bible to be taught. It happened for 350 years. But since it is of great profit for teaching, it was one of greatest gifts to the world by the Church.

It is treated with high reverence in the Mass and virtually every word during the Mass, comes directly from a verse in the Bible.

You are like the Amish when it comes to the Bible. You drive a horse drawn cart because he some idea your daddy planted in your mind, that a Church of England bible is one God made.

The first, Latin Vulgate, will always be the standard. I don't speak Latin and you don't speak middle English.
Barnsweb

Lewis Center, OH

#65 Jul 31, 2014
X-factor wrote:
Matthew 26:28, Jesus says that his blood "is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins." Clearly, Jesus wants his disciples to make a theological connection between his coming death on the Cross and their forgiveness of sins.
Hopefully we can agree that Jesus taught truth, and this truth is that He has the authority to speak the very words of God and also has the authority to forgive sins. Therefore, whatever He said on the topic, as faithfully represented by the chosen twelve, is actually what He taught.

If baptism in the Name is important, He would have taught its necessity. In the great commission of Matthew we see He put it squarely between first coming to Him to learn of Him as a disciple, and then to be found keeping the same commandments related to us by His chosen twelve that we be keeping the same instructions (commandments) that He initially gave them. If He placed it this way should we look to do as He said to do? Or should we hear someone else over what He said to do?

http://www.onediscipletoanother.org/id7.html
Barnsweb

Lewis Center, OH

#66 Jul 31, 2014
Mike_Peterson wrote:
Why did the Church put Philemon in the Bible? You ever read it?
1 From Paul, a prisoner of Christ Jesus and from our brother Timothy; to our dear fellow worker Philemon,
2 our sister Apphia, our fellow soldier Archippus and the church that meets in your house.
3 Grace and the peace of God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
4 I always thank my God, mentioning you in my prayers,
5 because I hear of the love and the faith which you have for the Lord Jesus and for all God's holy people.
6 I pray that your fellowship in faith may come to expression in full knowledge of all the good we can do for Christ.
7 I have received much joy and encouragement by your love; you have set the hearts of God's holy people at rest.
8 Therefore, although in Christ I have no hesitations about telling you what your duty is,
9 I am rather appealing to your love, being what I am, Paul, an old man, and now also a prisoner of Christ Jesus.
10 I am appealing to you for a child of mine, whose father I became while wearing these chains: I mean Onesimus.
11 He was of no use to you before, but now he is useful both to you and to me.
12 I am sending him back to you -- that is to say, sending you my own heart.
13 I should have liked to keep him with me; he could have been a substitute for you, to help me while I am in the chains that the gospel has brought me.
14 However, I did not want to do anything without your consent; it would have been forcing your act of kindness, which should be spontaneous.
15 I suppose you have been deprived of Onesimus for a time, merely so that you could have him back for ever,
16 no longer as a slave, but something much better than a slave, a dear brother; especially dear to me, but how much more to you, both on the natural plane and in the Lord.
17 So if you grant me any fellowship with yourself, welcome him as you would me;
18 if he has wronged you in any way or owes you anything, put it down to my account.
19 I am writing this in my own hand: I, Paul, shall pay it back -- I make no mention of a further debt, that you owe your very self to me!
20 Well then, brother, I am counting on you, in the Lord; set my heart at rest, in Christ.
21 I am writing with complete confidence in your compliance, sure that you will do even more than I ask.
22 There is another thing: will you get a place ready for me to stay in? I am hoping through your prayers to be restored to you.
23 Epaphras, a prisoner with me in Christ Jesus, sends his greetings;
24 so do my fellow-workers Mark, Aristarchus, Demas and Luke.
25 May the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit.
See Mike - the three are together; Mark, Luke and Paul - all fellow workers of Paul's unique message - but the trouble is Paul is a proven liar and to have taught against the truth of Jesus Christ, the Temple, the Covenant, the Commandments and people of God - just as charged in Acts and Revelation 2 to have taught eating meat sacrificed to idols was permitted - that all things are lawful - and that the only real rules are what is expedient and what doesn't offend your own seared conscience that trusts the Commandments of God no longer apply.

That Paul supported submission to rulers the way he did places obedience and submission to Rome as more important that submission to obey God first.
Bobby

Mansfield, TX

#67 Jul 31, 2014
Mike and barnsweb are closer in doctrine than they care to admit. One denies 2/3 of the new testament-all the writing of Paul. The other claims to believe everything in the bible but denies most of the scripture written by Paul. Both are closer to pharisees than christian.

Religiously, they accepted the written Word as inspired by God. At the time of Christ's earthly ministry, this would have been what is now our Old Testament. But they also gave equal authority to oral tradition and attempted to defend this position by saying it went all the way back to Moses. Evolving over the centuries, these traditions added to God's Word, which is forbidden in dueteronomy .

2 Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the Lord your God that I give you.

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#68 Jul 31, 2014
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
See Mike - the three are together; Mark, Luke and Paul - all fellow workers of Paul's unique message - but the trouble is Paul is a proven liar and to have taught against the truth of Jesus Christ, the Temple, the Covenant, the Commandments and people of God - just as charged in Acts and Revelation 2 to have taught eating meat sacrificed to idols was permitted - that all things are lawful - and that the only real rules are what is expedient and what doesn't offend your own seared conscience that trusts the Commandments of God no longer apply.
That Paul supported submission to rulers the way he did places obedience and submission to Rome as more important that submission to obey God first.
You need somebody teach you. Just like the Ethiopian Eunuch. We all do. How, by the Magisterium.

The keys, bind and loosen, hearing them hears Jesus, forgive sins or not.

These were Jesus' words right?
Bobby

Mansfield, TX

#69 Jul 31, 2014
Mike Adds to the bible with oral tradition and Barnsweb takes from the bible by removing 2/3 of the new testament.

Yep that describes modern day pharisees...

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#70 Jul 31, 2014
Mike_Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
You need somebody teach you. Just like the Ethiopian Eunuch. We all do. How, by the Magisterium.
The keys, bind and loosen, hearing them hears Jesus, forgive sins or not.
These were Jesus' words right?
You really dont care about Jesus words because Jesus told John to write the Revelation and you denied that.
William

Birmingham, AL

#71 Jul 31, 2014
"The first, Latin Vulgate, will always be the standard. I don't speak Latin and you don't speak middle English."

The LV agrees with most of the KJV. Your later bibles got progressively edited away from the LV to say things different from what they mean, like 1 Corinthians 1:18 for example.

The LV and the KJV have it correctly as "are saved" while your modern bibles changed it to "are being saved".

So I know that the Catholics change their doctrine to suit whatever is being preached.
Axel Reid

Montross, VA

#72 Jul 31, 2014
Why did Luke use eis in 38th verse of Acts two if he meant in order to receive. Luke could have used the Greek word Hana which only means in order to receive but he used eis which had about a half a dozen meanings. I submit to you that eis in 38th verse of acts two is best rendered as unto.
Axel Reid

Montross, VA

#73 Jul 31, 2014
Note to that when Jesus healed the leper man he then told him to what for a testimony? Note the same word eis translated as for. The leper was healed first then told to do what for a testimony?
Axel Reid

Montross, VA

#74 Jul 31, 2014
Baptism is a testimony not the saving act at all. It just pictures for us and others that we are saved

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#75 Jul 31, 2014
William wrote:
"The first, Latin Vulgate, will always be the standard. I don't speak Latin and you don't speak middle English."
The LV agrees with most of the KJV. Your later bibles got progressively edited away from the LV to say things different from what they mean, like 1 Corinthians 1:18 for example.
The LV and the KJV have it correctly as "are saved" while your modern bibles changed it to "are being saved".
So I know that the Catholics change their doctrine to suit whatever is being preached.
Oops. Spilled water on the keyboard.

I know your history extends only to the day you picked up a Bible. The church has never changed her doctrine on faith and morals.

Read what the first Christians wrote then and now. Same thing. Nothing has changed.

Since: Jul 14

Garland, TX

#76 Jul 31, 2014
Jesus reached out his hand and touched the man. "I am willing," he said. "Be clean!" Immediately he was cleansed of his leprosy. Then Jesus said to him, "See that you don't tell anyone. But go, show yourself to the priest and offer the gift Moses commanded, as a testimony to them." Mtt 8:3-1

These gift Moses commanded are found in Leviticus 14:2-32. According to the Law of Moses, to be leprous was to be ceremonially unclean. Notice this happened after he was healed.

I submit this is the case when we are saved. We are baptize as testimony.

Since: Jul 14

Garland, TX

#77 Jul 31, 2014
I meant to add these gift are found in Leviticus 14:2-32, where they are typical of Christ’s atonement and the cleansing it provided. “For a testimony unto them:” that is, as evidence to the priest that the leper had indeed been cleansed.

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#78 Jul 31, 2014
Axel Reid wrote:
Jesus reached out his hand and touched the man. "I am willing," he said. "Be clean!" Immediately he was cleansed of his leprosy. Then Jesus said to him, "See that you don't tell anyone. But go, show yourself to the priest and offer the gift Moses commanded, as a testimony to them." Mtt 8:3-1
These gift Moses commanded are found in Leviticus 14:2-32. According to the Law of Moses, to be leprous was to be ceremonially unclean. Notice this happened after he was healed.
I submit this is the case when we are saved. We are baptize as testimony.
You are wrong. The Apostles taught that baptism now saves you and you receive the HS

Remember that little bird on Jesus when he was baptized to show us how it was done. Show and tell.. Jesus was great at doing that.

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#79 Jul 31, 2014
Axel Reid wrote:
Baptism is a testimony not the saving act at all. It just pictures for us and others that we are saved
Seriously, On what day did God say to you that you have the authority to speak for him.

Since: Jul 14

Garland, TX

#80 Jul 31, 2014
Mike_Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
You are wrong. The Apostles taught that baptism now saves you and you receive the HS
Remember that little bird on Jesus when he was baptized to show us how it was done. Show and tell.. Jesus was great at doing that.
You are wrong. The Apostles taught no such thing. 1 Peter 3:21 speaks of baptism in symbolic terms as a like-figure not as water conveying a mystical power to save. To clarify he adds, NOT the removal of filth of the flesh but an answer of one who has a clean conscience. Evil do not desire water baptism. Evil men curse God and are against God. Saved people submit to the commands of God thus a sign that their conscience is clear, purified by faith. The Holy Spirit descending upon Jesus was nothing to do with Christian baptism at all. In fact it was Johns baptism he submitted to not as one of sin but one of righteousness. It was no show and tell and you claim for they knew baptism long before Jesus was baptized.

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