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Since: Jul 11

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#1 Apr 25, 2013
Almost 30 years ago I was listening to J. Vernon McGee ‘THRU THE BIBLE’ program on the radio and heard him say that paying tithes was not something for the Church. Years later, I heard John MacArthur saying the same thing as well as a local Church in a neighboring town. Also, around this time I heard the church of Christ preaching on this. However, the church of Christ went farther with this and said anybody teaching that the Church was to pay tithes was a false teacher. Having studied this, I do agree that tithing is NOT for the Church. However, if one feels FREE to give 10%, there is nothing wrong with this. The impression I get from the local church of Christ is that “teaching tithing” is a sin … thus something that results in sending people to hell.

What say ye?
Walkinginlove

Danville, VA

#3 Apr 25, 2013
So if I give 10% because I want to give 10% I am walking with the Lord, but if I give 10% but I have someone telling me that I should give that much I am in a false church and headed to hell?!??!

How about if I start preaching that everyone who uses a man made temple is a false teacher and leading people to hell. I can justify the view based on the fact that the scriptures show there were no dedicated temples, or I can get off God's throne and allow him to decide who is and is not going to hell.

I don't personally believe that the tithe is an obligation, but I also know that denominational churches have a building and staff that needs support, along with the needs of the church family.

The real issue is that one denomination wants to use this to try and draw people from another denomination. I would like to meet a CoC member who did not believe the Bible was real nor God was real who became a believer by sitting in on the teachings from the CoC who designs their teachings to steal believers from other denominations.

They'll justify it by claiming they were unsaved and point to the actions of the Apostles preaching to the Jews, yet I have yet to hear of a converted Jew on the Topix forums in the CoC camp!
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#4 Apr 25, 2013
Walkinginlove wrote:
So if I give 10% because I want to give 10% I am walking with the Lord, but if I give 10% but I have someone telling me that I should give that much I am in a false church and headed to hell?!??!
How about if I start preaching that everyone who uses a man made temple is a false teacher and leading people to hell. I can justify the view based on the fact that the scriptures show there were no dedicated temples, or I can get off God's throne and allow him to decide who is and is not going to hell.
I don't personally believe that the tithe is an obligation, but I also know that denominational churches have a building and staff that needs support, along with the needs of the church family.
The real issue is that one denomination wants to use this to try and draw people from another denomination. I would like to meet a CoC member who did not believe the Bible was real nor God was real who became a believer by sitting in on the teachings from the CoC who designs their teachings to steal believers from other denominations.
They'll justify it by claiming they were unsaved and point to the actions of the Apostles preaching to the Jews, yet I have yet to hear of a converted Jew on the Topix forums in the CoC camp!
This Catholic agrees with you. It is like tithing might be like a recommendation. Nowhere does the Bible mention to give 10% of your money.

I have heard many times in Church, that if you give to the poor that is giving to the Church too or other people in need. They kind of recommended 5% to the Church and 5% to the needy but give what you can as a cheerful giver.

You have to keep the lights on the building, in repair, plus provide for the different programs in your Church.
Whitman

Charlottesville, VA

#5 Apr 25, 2013
i jus love how randy roo come on here and get yall all stirred up on stuff like this then he bail out and hits the road like his buddy boy seeking wonder then come new guy like bat man from the cave to save robin. he the one killed my site i know it but cant proove it
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#6 Apr 25, 2013
Whitman wrote:
i jus love how randy roo come on here and get yall all stirred up on stuff like this then he bail out and hits the road like his buddy boy seeking wonder then come new guy like bat man from the cave to save robin. he the one killed my site i know it but cant proove it
The Dark Knight rises again lol.
New Guy

Morehead, KY

#7 Apr 26, 2013
Not many takers on this besides Batman? Well now. Maybe we need to stir a little more. Is giving every week commanded in the scriptures? I am well aware of 1 Corinthians 16. That was a "love offering" so to speak for needy saints. Should the churches take up a collection each week to pay bills, pay salaries, add to the building fund, etc? Or should those things be capped?

I know of a congregation that sets a target of money each year to pay all necessary bills. Once met, the offerings don't stop though.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#8 Apr 26, 2013
New Guy wrote:
Not many takers on this besides Batman? Well now. Maybe we need to stir a little more. Is giving every week commanded in the scriptures? I am well aware of 1 Corinthians 16. That was a "love offering" so to speak for needy saints. Should the churches take up a collection each week to pay bills, pay salaries, add to the building fund, etc? Or should those things be capped?
I know of a congregation that sets a target of money each year to pay all necessary bills. Once met, the offerings don't stop though.
Most churches that believe in tithing, say that the tithe goes to the church but offerings are above and beyond that. I used to tithe but more recently, I prefer to use part of that money to do personal work as I see the need and the opportunity arises.
New Guy

Morehead, KY

#9 Apr 26, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
Most churches that believe in tithing, say that the tithe goes to the church but offerings are above and beyond that. I used to tithe but more recently, I prefer to use part of that money to do personal work as I see the need and the opportunity arises.
I see absolutely nothing wrong with that. There are certain charities here that I give to every chance I get. Especially for kids. Once our congregation gave $1000 to an elderly woman for cataract surgery to help restore some of her vision. A man in the congregation my dad serves just gave them an old vehicle to drive back and forth to church-it's an 80 mile one way trip.

Our money should do more than sit in a building fund.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#10 Apr 26, 2013
New Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
I see absolutely nothing wrong with that. There are certain charities here that I give to every chance I get. Especially for kids. Once our congregation gave $1000 to an elderly woman for cataract surgery to help restore some of her vision. A man in the congregation my dad serves just gave them an old vehicle to drive back and forth to church-it's an 80 mile one way trip.
Our money should do more than sit in a building fund.
That is what I am talking about. I like to help when I see the need, for example when someone in front of me is checking out at the grocery store and they do not have enough to pay the bill or someone asks for money, I try buy them a meal rather than give them money. The opportunities are endless, I am Just thankful that I can afford to help. Last week a neighbor was not expected live she was waiting on Hospice to come, so we gave the family some money to help with expenses. A neighbor has a huge tree that has died, we offered to pay half the cost to remove it but I don't think they can afford anything. Do not know how that will work out yet.

In other words I think the tithe is no longer binding. It is ok to tithe if we want to but it is not legally binding. The church is not always the best way to give. I remember a small coc we were part of- I was part of the leadership. The building was paid for, our only expenses was utilities and the preachers salary. The preacher was sending his kids to private school and my kids were in public school. I had to give that a lot of thought.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#11 Apr 26, 2013
Btw, My accountant (a brother in Christ) pointed out to me that the tithe was based on income/increase not possessions. Being retired means that my income comes mostly from money that has already been tithed on. Which means that if we use the tithe in a legal manner then I only owe on the portion that my money earns. The same would be true if we are drawing social security because supposedly if we paid into the system then it is our money being returned to us. Just because I have a lot of assets/money in the bank that has nothing to do with income.

I think it is best to forget about the whole tithe idea and just give from what in in our hearts.
Whitman-Olethros

Charlottesville, VA

#12 Apr 26, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
The Dark Knight rises again lol.
im not chris night.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#13 Apr 26, 2013
Bobby wrote:
Btw, My accountant (a brother in Christ) pointed out to me that the tithe was based on income/increase not possessions. Being retired means that my income comes mostly from money that has already been tithed on. Which means that if we use the tithe in a legal manner then I only owe on the portion that my money earns. The same would be true if we are drawing social security because supposedly if we paid into the system then it is our money being returned to us. Just because I have a lot of assets/money in the bank that has nothing to do with income.
I think it is best to forget about the whole tithe idea and just give from what in in our hearts.
I am going to tithe like Abraham. The next I go to war, and if I win, I am going to give 10% of the loot to the Church.
New Guy

Morehead, KY

#14 Apr 29, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
In other words I think the tithe is no longer binding. It is ok to tithe if we want to but it is not legally binding. The church is not always the best way to give. I remember a small coc we were part of- I was part of the leadership. The building was paid for, our only expenses was utilities and the preachers salary. The preacher was sending his kids to private school and my kids were in public school. I had to give that a lot of thought.
Again, have to agree with much of what you are saying. Many probably won't like the statement "the church is not always the best way to give". But I believe you are right. What good does money sitting in a bank account for a building fund, or rainy day do? The only offerings I am aware of in the NT were for needy saints in Jerusalem. And that seems to be started later than Pentecost. I think perhaps we as individuals are better equipped, and intended, to decide ourselves to help others with our increase.

I see nothing wrong with helping the church pay bills, make repairs, programs, etc. BUT-the OT tithe was to support the old temple system and the priesthood. WE are the priests, and the Father and the Lamb are our temple. But Christianity has replaced the OT temple with the new temple, and we put the old system back in place and live by it. Makes no sense to me.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#15 Apr 29, 2013
New Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, have to agree with much of what you are saying. Many probably won't like the statement "the church is not always the best way to give". But I believe you are right. What good does money sitting in a bank account for a building fund, or rainy day do? The only offerings I am aware of in the NT were for needy saints in Jerusalem. And that seems to be started later than Pentecost. I think perhaps we as individuals are better equipped, and intended, to decide ourselves to help others with our increase.
I see nothing wrong with helping the church pay bills, make repairs, programs, etc. BUT-the OT tithe was to support the old temple system and the priesthood. WE are the priests, and the Father and the Lamb are our temple. But Christianity has replaced the OT temple with the new temple, and we put the old system back in place and live by it. Makes no sense to me.
I like your comments but I think I must make it clear-I fully believe in supporting the local church. But, if we commit all of our support to the church then there may not be anything left for areas of compassion. We have a dedicated amount that goes to our local church without fail.We did the same thing when we were part of the coc. Also my wife works part time for the church and she gives about 20% of it back to the church through an automatic deduction.
New Guy

Morehead, KY

#16 Apr 29, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
I like your comments but I think I must make it clear-I fully believe in supporting the local church. But, if we commit all of our support to the church then there may not be anything left for areas of compassion. We have a dedicated amount that goes to our local church without fail.We did the same thing when we were part of the coc. Also my wife works part time for the church and she gives about 20% of it back to the church through an automatic deduction.
I agree. I do believe in supporting the local church too. I do think that we can spot areas with our money that we should support and help without going through the congregation. I am a sucker for the jars at gas stations asking for help for kids with illnesses. I try to give to Ronald McDonald's houses every chance I can. I know if my kids were sick I would want to be with them, and they need their parents there as well.

My friend at work tonight told me that Sunday morning, a man down on his luck was standing outside the doors of his church. He talked to the man, invited him in, and gave him a few dollars to help out. My friend said he received several dirty looks from other members after he did that. Perhaps being our brother's keeper isn't as important as giving money to the congregation.
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#17 May 12, 2013
For me, this issue hasn't stopped being an issue because I know some people who are being harassed about giving 10%. He has been told that if he just gives 10% his financial problems will all disappear. He asked where the money for his house payment would come from. The answer-"you just give, God will make sure it comes your way".

When it comes to new converts, we don't expect that all their sins and problems will be solved overnight. That takes a lifetime to accomplish, and it isn't perfectly completed at that point-not until we actually leave this world. But many expect giving to be 10% right off the bat, as soon as one becomes a Christian. It doesn't matter how badly you messed up your finances when outside of Christ-pay up now. No time to get priorities and finances fixed first.
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#18 May 12, 2013
I want to get into some of the nuts and bolts of the tithing idea. Comments and questions welcome, rebuttals if necessary. Since the OT is the source of tithes, what does it say?

It does mean "a tenth". Abram gave Melchizedek of all of the spoils of war. Abram took none of the spoils for himself, he let 3 others have it. The Hebrews account only gives this as an example of how the priesthood has changed.

Jacob mentioned giving the Lord a tithe, if the Lord would be with him, provide for him, and bring him back to his father's house. To my knowledge this event isn't mentioned elsewhere, not given as an example of our giving.

The tithe as we probably know it starts over in Leviticus 27:30-32. It mentions a tithe of the LAND. Seed of the land or fruit of the tree. Also a tithe could be from the herd or flock. If a man wanted to redeem any of it it would add 1/5 or 20% to the cost.

Numbers 18 tells us that the Levites received no inheritance (land) in the promised land, so God was their inheritance and the offerings and tithes were to go for their support. Those same Levites were in turn to give a tithe of all they received. All of these tithes were farm produce, grains, animals, etc. Not money.

Deuteronomy 12 tells us the tithes could only be EATEN before the Lord your God in the place which the Lord your God chooses.

Deuteronomy 14:22 says that you shall truly tithe all the increase of your grain that the field produces year by year...of your grain and new wine and oil, firstborn of herds and flocks. If the journey was too far, the tithe could be exchanged for money, and the people could spend that money on whatever their hearts desired to eat and drink and rejoice.

Every third year the yearly tithe was to stay within their area, for the local Levites, the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow. Every third year for the poor and downtrodden.

2 Chronicles 31-Hezekiah restores temple services, reinstated the tithe-of grain and wine, oil and honey; the produce of the field; oxen and sheep. 2 Chronicles 31:10 sheds light on the famous Malachi passage.

Nehemiah 10:32-39, 12:44, and 13:5-12 sheds light on the practice during the return from exile.

The tithe was about agriculture and food, providing for the Levites-the priesthood, caretakers of the house of God, the rulers of the nation, the civil authorities, you name it. It seems the Levites were to be provided for, food and drink when the Israelites came before the Lord was part of the tithe, and every third year it was for the Levites and underprivileged of the land.

Does our giving today go to provide for the secular operation of government? No, that's what taxes are for. In one sense, the OT tithe was partly an income tax. Do we only give to the poor every three years? And does our money go to pay for "food and drink" when we come before the Lord? Heaven forbid that! Some people's heads would spin over that idea.

Questions-how much of this is relevant to our giving today? Is a mandatory giving of 10% of the land's produce (not all income) the equivalent of us giving 10% or more of money we bring in to keep up the new temple and "priesthood"? And, if tithes were to support the "priests", shouldn't today the entirety of the priests enjoy the benefits, not just a certain few?

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#19 May 13, 2013
Dave P wrote:
if tithes were to support the "priests", shouldn't today the entirety of the priests enjoy the benefits, not just a certain few?
Good point!
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#20 May 13, 2013
I think the problem comes when we are compelled by men (spiritual thieves) to give a designated amount we are being gullible. I think that would also apply to a teacher who might say there is no need to give anything. The coc has said all along that giving must come from the heart. If tithing comes from the heart, then that is good.

I believe that we must train ourselves to get into the habit of giving because we know we will be blessed but not out of compulsion.

For instance we give our grand children a few dollars to put into plate when they come to church with us. It is not anything they earned but just a tool to get them in the right frame of mind.
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#21 May 13, 2013
Thanks to you both for your comments. I have a friend being greatly troubled by this. I personally have never done an in-depth study of the issue before now. Just kinda went with the notion of free will from the heart, 10% is a good target to get to idea. Like Bobby said, if one desires to tithe, from their heart and not out of compulsion by spiritual thieves, then I see no problem. Again, we are in trouble for making law where God has not.

Also agree with your point about not giving Bobby. My point is not about trying to get out of giving, but to have a true Biblical perspective on the issue. I also give my oldest son a few dollars to put in the plate to get him started on the idea. Before long, he'll be asking questions, and the teaching begins.

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