created by: Barnsweb | Aug 11, 2013

Martinsville, VA

108 votes

Who gave the Ten Commandments to Moses

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  • God
  • Angels
  • Peter
  • Paul
  • Adam
  • Abraham
  • John
  • Yeshua
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21 - 40 of 550 Comments Last updated Jul 22, 2014
Dave P

Morehead, KY

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#21
Aug 16, 2013
 

Judged:

1

If BW is wrong about Paul, is he guilty of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit? After all, he would be railing against one of God's messengers-something even Michael the archangel wouldn't do.

Since: Jul 11

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#22
Aug 16, 2013
 
If true, it also means we need to throw out Luke and Peter too. They both acknowledge Paul.
Dave P

Hiawassee, GA

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#23
Aug 16, 2013
 

Judged:

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Wouldn't one of those red letter editions be enough for someone who discounts everyone else as authentic?

Personally, i think it's very dangerous.

Since: Jul 11

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#24
Aug 16, 2013
 

Judged:

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Dave P wrote:
Wouldn't one of those red letter editions be enough for someone who discounts everyone else as authentic?
Personally, i think it's very dangerous.
Once we push Paul out, there goes much of the New Testament. If such were true, Id be forced to push Luke and Peter out, too. I agree. Very dangerous when we do this. I always enjoy BWs input but disagree with him on this.
killedjoe

Lindenhurst, NY

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#25
Aug 16, 2013
 
Dave P wrote:
If BW is wrong about Paul, is he guilty of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit? After all, he would be railing against one of God's messengers-something even Michael the archangel wouldn't do.
They are many who believe that Michael the Arcgangel and Jesus are one and the same. Jesus said he was there when Satan was thrown out of Heaven.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

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#26
Aug 17, 2013
 
Dave P wrote:
If BW is wrong about Paul, is he guilty of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit? After all, he would be railing against one of God's messengers-something even Michael the archangel wouldn't do.
Well, the issue is the truth taught by Jesus Christ, since He said we will be judged by His words, which were given as the direct words from Father to Son to all of us. Did Paul teach to follow Jesus Christ, who taught to believe Moses and who taught in a way that magnified Torah - just as Isaiah prophesied. Not one of the teachings of Jesus was taking away from any commandment of God - He called people to a higher understanding and repentance to do it, and to obey God - not any man made commandments.

As for 'railing against one of God's messengers'- not Paul denies the authority of abiding in the words of Jesus (negation of the Torah/Law of God), and also said the Law was given to Moses by angels, then goes on to call the angels who gave the law as 'beggarly elements' and in other letters says the Roman rulers had the authority of God to tell people what to do. Paul no more believed the Torah as Jesus did than any rank comparison I could come up with at the moment - so this will go without illustration, so as to not take away from the fact that even Scriptures call Paul a liar - and his testimony before Felix was purgery if we are to believe what Paul said other times. So I elect to hear Jesus because I know He spoke the truth. I elect to believe Jesus that the Law was not loosened or nailed to His cross. At least that's a starting point for you to consider. I have no fear of a curse of Paul when I fear God and not man.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

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#27
Aug 17, 2013
 
JesusCreed wrote:
If true, it also means we need to throw out Luke and Peter too. They both acknowledge Paul.
At first glance, but not really. Luke should be tossed if found to not be true - if he's a liar. So far what I've determined is that Luke told things as he knew them - or was told them - such as his recording what Paul said of his encounters on the road, and these things also aid us to know who Jesus was speaking of in Revelation 2, comparing the false apostle to Balaam - the parallels are stark to show Paul is the man He spoke of. Had Luke not recorded the details of Paul, we wouldn't be as able to know that Paul is actually the liar Jesus spoke of. And for the gospel account of Luke, though not inspired as Matthew or John, it is a useful account to study the life and teachings of Jesus - unless it ever contradicts Matthew or John on any point.

Second Peter was not accepted as Scripture by the early Church, and was only added by the Roman Church in 397 - without justification. Previously it was known to have been purported to have been written by Peter, but the early Church fathers who quoted I Peter, never quoted II Peter - which would be curious, as II Peter has much to say. A secondary evidence is that II Peter purports to speak of Paul's writings as 'Scripture', but in the days Peter was alive the writings were not yet gathered together to have such a 'Scriptures' context. Lastly, Jesus points the arrow straight at Paul after Paul was dead. We cannot believe in Paul if Revelation is true and we 'have ears to hear'.

Peter, at best, considered Paul a 'beloved brother' at the start, but never called Paul an 'Apostle'. Only Paul and Luke did that, and those who believed Pauls account of himself.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

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#28
Aug 17, 2013
 
JesusCreed wrote:
<quoted text>
Once we push Paul out, there goes much of the New Testament. If such were true, Id be forced to push Luke and Peter out, too. I agree. Very dangerous when we do this. I always enjoy BWs input but disagree with him on this.
If disciples of Jesus - which is what He commanded - we must abide in His word to know the truth. Because those who put the NT together didn't follow the commandments of God to know who spoke the truth from Him - if God is true, if we need to obey the truth and not be ensnared by the lie that sends souls to hell - as taught by Jesus Christ - we'd better get busy to believe Jesus Christ and reject the liar - unless we don't care if we go to hell.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

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#29
Aug 17, 2013
 
Paul said all things are lawful. Jesus NEVER said this, nor did God or Moses or any Apostle of Jesus Christ. Paul taught things were relegated to 'expediency' and individual conscience - rather than simply repenting to do whatever God or Jesus Christ said we are to believe and do. According to the whole of the teachings of Jesus, we cannot believe Him and not do what He said - from the heart. God gave His Spirit to write His word on our hearts so that we would be careful to do what He said from the heart. I'm sure this prophecy was not quoted by Luke in Acts, but am just as sure that Peter spoke of it in the 'many other words' of the first gospel sermon in Acts. That this was left out by a follower of Paul doesn't appear to me to be an accidental oversight.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

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#30
Aug 17, 2013
 
Ezekiel 36:26,27

26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

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#31
Aug 17, 2013
 
Paul lied. Paul was two faced - he said one thing to one group, another to the other - being untrue to the true gospel preached by Jesus Christ. Paul may have started out right in repenting and being baptized per the commandment of God, but Romans 10, and many other passages, shows he departed from the once for all delivered faith that is able to save - only to turn into a full scale Balaam of the NT - teaching that only 'weaker' brethren don't eat meat sacrificed to idols, and that it was OK to commit fornication/adultery. Look at his direction in Corinthians to the wife whose non believing husband left - that she was no longer bound by the law and was free to remarry - no mention of a certificate of divorce as commanded by Moses and affirmed by Jesus Christ and what He taught on the subject. A sidebar note though - the Greek translation of Matthew is flawed from what the Hebrew said. In the Hebrew it has Jesus affirming Moses about needing to provide a certificate of divorce when the people of the day had pretty much ignored that and thus the woman was not legally divorced and whoever married her who had not the certificate of divorce were commiting adultery - marrying a woman married to someone else.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

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#32
Aug 17, 2013
 
"Jesus' Words Only" by Douglas DelTondo

onediscipletoanother.org

If I'm wrong, please show me where.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

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#33
Aug 17, 2013
 
If I'm right, have the courage to stand up for the truth of Jesus Christ and repent of following Paul.

It is a matter of salvation, as if Paul is the Balaam who ensnares those who are gathered up and cast into hell - what harsher way could the matter be put than what Jesus taught about it? I'm not adding to His word.
William

Birmingham, AL

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#34
Aug 17, 2013
 
"It is a matter of salvation, as if Paul is the Balaam who ensnares those who are gathered up and cast into hell - what harsher way could the matter be put than what Jesus taught about it?"

Jesus told a man to keep the commandments and sell out everything he owned and give to the poor, in order to have treasure in heaven. Which obviously you still haven't done.

Did he change the deal just for you?
William

Birmingham, AL

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#35
Aug 17, 2013
 
"Jesus' Words Only" by Douglas DelTondo

onediscipletoanother.org

If I'm wrong, please show me where.

***

Mr. DelTondo's article states:

"True doctrine is to observe ALL of the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ."

Have you and Mr. DelTondo done this? Planning on doing it one day?
William

Birmingham, AL

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#36
Aug 17, 2013
 
"In another place He also asked; "Why do you call me Lord and not do as I say?"

Better hop to it!
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

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#37
Aug 17, 2013
 
Been catching up on a few things. I noticed that barnsweb has finally completely denied Paul. It is the only way his doctrine will work.

I have noticed through the years that churches who practice law keeping in various forms will at first gravitate toward barnswebs teaching. To be honest I still like barnsweb and believe he is a sincere guy, but he is wrong.

Any church that teaches a form of law keeping absent from grace will fall into the trap. Any teaching that adds works/law keeping to grace for salvation can be susceptible to the wooing of law keepers. I think the old school coc, mormons, some pentecostals-etc are prime targets for this stuff.

"Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God."

With law keeping there will always be that one thing we lack!
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

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#38
Aug 17, 2013
 
I believe that having the catholics join our discussions has been fruitful. They have allowed us to see the necessity for sola scripture and taught us to avoid false teaching. Even though we share most their righteous living ideas and moral values the gap is wider than I first believed. They also are deluded, believing that their works are the basis of their salvation. In that regard they are on a similar path as barnsweb.

We should live our lives based on the good we know but never fall into the trap that each time we fail we become lost again. Or, in the case of catholics who need purgatory to get the chance to do enough good works to outweigh their sin.

"Not of works, lest any man should boast."
William

Birmingham, AL

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#39
Aug 17, 2013
 
"With law keeping there will always be that one thing we lack!"

Yeah. And that is "actually being able to keep the law."

NOT ONE person in all of recorded history outside of Jesus Christ was able to do it, but it never ceases to amaze me that there are still people around who think they themselves can do it. Or better yet, expect YOU to do it while they themselves cannot manage to do it.

These people are usually "holiness living" advocates with beards. Fake Jews.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

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#40
Aug 17, 2013
 
There are a number in the Scriptures that God considered friends. Also a number considered 'blameless', and 'faithful'. No man is perfect - but we can at least have some care to do what God said. Paul didn't. Paul taught against the law/commandments of God and relegated his gospel to be the gospel of expediency/profitability. No one else in Scripture did this. Jesus said the Law was in force and effect till heaven and earth pass away, and that all things written therein would be fulfilled...which was not two years after He spoke these things;-)

Nope, Paul was the Balaam referred to in Revelation 2 and the wolf in sheeps' clothing.

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