Who gave the Ten Commandments to Moses

Who gave the Ten Commandments to Moses

Created by Barnsweb on Aug 11, 2013

169 votes

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God

Angels

Peter

Paul

Adam

Abraham

John

Yeshua

Satan

other -

Dave P

Commerce, GA

#264 Aug 30, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not alone in my view. Quite a few early Church authorities and scholars arrived at the same points I did, for the same reasons. Anyone who says Paul didn't contradict what Jesus taught the gospel to be has studied so little that they don't realize the difference - the lack of discernment is from a lack of knowledge. God says His people perish for lack of knowledge. Jesus condemns those who believe a lie. Do you actually know the truth He taught? If you did, you would not have made the above comment - your ignorance is screaming loudly therein.
"Jesus' Words Only".
Orthodox, RCC churches.
Early church "authorities and scholars".
Stop telling tales about "hearing Him". You hear everyone but Him. As far as not being alone in your view, so what? I am not alone in my views either. That means absolutely nothing.

If you had stood firm in the faith you would be making none of the absurd statements you make now. Still waiting for the temple to be rebuilt and the sacrifices to start again?
Dave P

Commerce, GA

#265 Aug 30, 2013
The "lost Hebrew edition" of Matthew. Glad to see you know absolutely what Peter and the other 12 considered canon. Were they even really concerned about canon? Who sold you that bill of goods?

And you aren't becoming a Jew?
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#266 Aug 31, 2013
One of the prophecies of the Messiah was that He would 'magnify Torah' and make it honorable. Paul said it was done away with and given by beggarly angels. Which is it? And if the record had Jesus teaching the true understanding and application of Torah without the manmade additions and subtractions - we can look to see if that is indeed what Jesus taught. The Jews certainly would know if what Jesus was teaching was against Torah. Do you find in His trial that He was guilty of teaching against the commandments, precepts, judgments, promises, or any such matter and that was proven so to be guilty?

Did I overlook that in my quest to note His commandments that are part of the Great Commission?

The DSS, and other most ancient records, as well as our own Scripture, and finally by the words of the defendant Paul himself, we find Paul was tried at Ephesus and found to be a liar and a false apostle. No one who maintained the faith as taught by Jesus accepted Paul as authoritative on any doctrine, and in fact rejected him as heretical until the Roman Catholics put his writings on the pedestal of Scripture and did so without seeing that Paul passed even the basic tests to who should be considered as speaking for God by the standards God gave. Let alone the higher standards of Jesus, Matthew, Peter and John and the testimony of His brother on the matter as well.

Paul greatly erred from the Hebrew Scriptures in what he taught in his writings. A couple of examples are the conditions and reasons of the covenant God made to Abraham. The second is Habakuk 4:2, where it is said 'The just shall live by faith.'

In the first, we can look at the exchanges in Genesis about God and the covenant He made with Abraham to get the big picture that realizes he was faithful to do what God told him, and that Abraham considered Gods' covenant with him to be a righteous thing - not that God counted Abraham's faith alone to be counted toward Abraham as righteousness! Check out the Hebrew OT on the passage. Also note God put conditions on the covenant that applied to his decendents a well as him.

The Habakkuk passage is equally flawed in the KJV and many other Greek translations of the Hebrew. The 'Scribes' have erred in not telling us the truth, just as the Scribes of Jesus' day.

The issue is that the just live by enduring and continuous endurance to do what God said. They live by their faithfulness to God and doing what He says - making a verbal claim to faith that then has no care or concern to actually and carefully observe His direction and commandment is exactly what fits those who claim He is 'Lord', yet walk not in Torah - they were 'Torahless'/Lawless.

Did Jesus give commandments? How many things did Jesus teach that could/should/must be considered as a commandment if we are His follower? Which do you think don't apply to you? and why don't they apply to you? I can show, and have shown, what I believe those commandments are. Can you prove they aren't? Or for what reason do you consider they aren't what Jesus considered that His disciples should consider commandments or instructions in righteousness and such like?

And circling back to Paul, the testimony recorded and provided by Paul himself and Luke show how Paul didn't and couldn't tell the truth on almost anything - especially his own accounts of his conversion stories in Acts. No two are the same. Each more glorious than the previous - just like Joseph Smith Jr. Are you to also believe God and Jesus also personally visited JS? You do Joseph injustice if you don't try Paul by the same standards that others judge him by and found him a liar too.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#267 Aug 31, 2013
Dave P wrote:
The "lost Hebrew edition" of Matthew. Glad to see you know absolutely what Peter and the other 12 considered canon. Were they even really concerned about canon? Who sold you that bill of goods?
And you aren't becoming a Jew?
I have it from a good source that this is in the DSS in a record of various things Peter said about Paul - even what actually happened at the place where Paul accused Peter personally in front of a crowd.

What matters most is my friendship with Jesus - according to what He said that friendship is conditioned on. And I do consider it an honor to be persecuted for righteousness sake of upholding His word in the face of supposed 'Christians' who are no more a disciple of Balaam than a disciple of Jesus Christ. Disciples of Jesus are 'Christians'- according to the Scripture.

Taking the Lord's name in vain is to take His name upon yourself and then not doing as He commanded - being lawless to His Lordship and word that He said was directly from God. So, as you ignore Him, you also ignore God.

There's still time to repent and turn to do His will.(Acts 3:22,23)

onediscipletoanother.org
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#268 Aug 31, 2013
John 15:9-15; "As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. If you keep My commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love. These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full. This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends. You are My friends if you do whatever I command you. No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing, but I have called you friends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you."

Revelation 22:14; "Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city."

Jesus blessed those who keep His commandments. Paul, on the other hand, said those that keep His commandments have weaker faith than those who don't do as He said and rely on Pauls' word that 'all things are lawful' and life is just about personal conscience and expediency.

Paul said the commandments were nailed to the cross.

What did Jesus say?
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#269 Aug 31, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
John 15:9-15; "As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. If you keep My commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love. These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full. This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends. You are My friends if you do whatever I command you. No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing, but I have called you friends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you."
Revelation 22:14; "Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city."
Jesus blessed those who keep His commandments. Paul, on the other hand, said those that keep His commandments have weaker faith than those who don't do as He said and rely on Pauls' word that 'all things are lawful' and life is just about personal conscience and expediency.
Paul said the commandments were nailed to the cross.
What did Jesus say?
I find it amazing how the hebrew roots movement changes things and moves them around. They say the new covenant is not really a new covenant but rather it is a renewed old covenant. The old covenant provided for sin to be moved forward one year at a time, not forgiveness.

The apostle paul teaches a new covenant with complete forgiveness of sin plus a relationship with our great high priest. But because he teaches a "NEW covenant" the HRM cannot accept that, so they seek to destroy Paul and try to keep the old covenant alive. The fact that there is no perfect red heifer to sacrifice and no the alter to offer it on and no temple proves that the old covenant is broken.

Seriously, you might as well throw out the entire new covenant and keep waiting for the real messiah like the jews do, but you can't because you are a gentile.
killedjoe

White Plains, NY

#270 Aug 31, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
I find it amazing how the hebrew roots movement changes things and moves them around. They say the new covenant is not really a new covenant but rather it is a renewed old covenant. The old covenant provided for sin to be moved forward one year at a time, not forgiveness.
The apostle paul teaches a new covenant with complete forgiveness of sin plus a relationship with our great high priest. But because he teaches a "NEW covenant" the HRM cannot accept that, so they seek to destroy Paul and try to keep the old covenant alive. The fact that there is no perfect red heifer to sacrifice and no the alter to offer it on and no temple proves that the old covenant is broken.
Seriously, you might as well throw out the entire new covenant and keep waiting for the real messiah like the jews do, but you can't because you are a gentile.
There are many Christians who believe that because of their rejection of Christ, they are not part of the New Covenant. The basic idea is that the Anouinted one is still to come. If you look, Jews, Christians, and Moslems are all waiting for the same promise, with each group believing that the group they belong to will be saved. God sending jesus was not for a certain group. It was for ALL MANKIND. Has Jesus said, you will know truth. But even with this truth, some will want the "old systems" of hate and greed. This is the final judgement. God will say, this time you knew the truth and you still rejected it.
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#271 Aug 31, 2013
BW-One of the prophecies of the Messiah was that He would 'magnify Torah' and make it honorable. Paul said it was done away with and given by beggarly angels. Which is it?

*Paul said the law was Holy, good, and just. Read the Hebrew writer- he helps explain what was "done away"- and it wasn't the law. It was the sacrificial system. He said those ordinances were beggarly, not angels- text twisting right there.

BW- The DSS, and other most ancient records, as well as our own Scripture, and finally by the words of the defendant Paul himself, we find Paul was tried at Ephesus and found to be a liar and a false apostle. No one who maintained the faith as taught by Jesus accepted Paul as authoritative on any doctrine, and in fact rejected him as heretical until the Roman Catholics put his writings on the pedestal of Scripture and did so without seeing that Paul passed even the basic tests to who should be considered as speaking for God by the standards God gave. Let alone the higher standards of Jesus, Matthew, Peter and John and the testimony of His brother on the matter as well.

*This is all conjecture and heresy. No scriptural evidence, except made up in the imaginations of judaizers. The scriptural evidence says Paul warned the Ephesian church that some would enter in; and they heeded the warning.

BW- The issue is that the just live by enduring and continuous endurance to do what God said. They live by their faithfulness to God and doing what He says - making a verbal claim to faith that then has no care or concern to actually and carefully observe His direction and commandment is exactly what fits those who claim He is 'Lord', yet walk not in Torah - they were 'Torahless'/Lawless.

*When did you start believing that Paul taught what evangelicals claim he did? You knew better once.

BW- I have it from a good source that this is in the DSS in a record of various things Peter said about Paul - even what actually happened at the place where Paul accused Peter personally in front of a crowd.

*It ain't Jesus or Peter. You better leave it alone.

BW- Disciples of Jesus are 'Christians'- according to the Scripture.

*Paul said that. Find a new name. Or is Paul and Luke scripture again?

BW- And I do consider it an honor to be persecuted for righteousness sake of upholding His word in the face of supposed 'Christians' who are no more a disciple of Balaam than a disciple of Jesus Christ.

* You're not being persecuted. Some of us are trying to help you before you go headfirst down heretic alley.

BW- Paul said the commandments were nailed to the cross.

* Lie. You know better.
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#272 Aug 31, 2013
Still waiting for the temple to be rebuilt?
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#273 Aug 31, 2013
Our sin was nailed to the cross and what was the punishment for sin? sin-brings forth death. By what means do we sin? It is by breaking the law, it was our schoolmaster to teach us about sin. It is because of the law that we know we are sinners.

What was the answer to sin in the old covenant? It was animal sacrifices during the annual passover. Passover means exactly what it says. God would passover the sins of the people until the next sacrifice was offered-only one year at a time. There was no forgiveness for sin. The penalty for sin was continually being pushed forward year by year until an acceptable sacrifice was offered which had the power to take away the consequences for sin.

That is what happened on the cross! We are no longer under the condemnation of the consequences of the law. We now have a great high Priest who stands between us and the wrath of God-forever.

If we are still under law then we still stand condemned and the death of Christ on the cross has no power to redeem us. It was a lie-all for naught!

Next question: What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#274 Aug 31, 2013
Did Paul say all things are lawful?

Did Paul say it was OK to eat meat sacrificed to idols so long as a 'weaker' brother was not present?

Where did Paul say the Law was given to Moses by God?
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#275 Aug 31, 2013
Read "Jesus' Words Only". If you can refute the points brought out and examined by Scriptural and historical records that are not what Paul said - then we can talk.

Until then I guess you have no desire to discuss the topic honestly - only to defend what you've this been told and you don't pay attention to what Jesus said because you're too busy upholding Pauls' doctrines.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#276 Aug 31, 2013
"No one can serve two masters." Jesus Christ
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#277 Aug 31, 2013
BW- Paul said the commandments were nailed to the cross.

Dave:* Lie. You know better.

Taking Paul at his word, that is what he taught. You can deny it though. Many top Evangelical and Protestant scholars and authorities say this is exactly what Paul taught. According to them, this is just telling the actual truth Paul believed and taught. I'm not the liar.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#278 Aug 31, 2013
I know better because I believe what Jesus said.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#279 Aug 31, 2013
Bobby wrote:
Our sin was nailed to the cross and what was the punishment for sin? sin-brings forth death. By what means do we sin? It is by breaking the law, it was our schoolmaster to teach us about sin. It is because of the law that we know we are sinners.
What was the answer to sin in the old covenant? It was animal sacrifices during the annual passover. Passover means exactly what it says. God would passover the sins of the people until the next sacrifice was offered-only one year at a time. There was no forgiveness for sin. The penalty for sin was continually being pushed forward year by year until an acceptable sacrifice was offered which had the power to take away the consequences for sin.
That is what happened on the cross! We are no longer under the condemnation of the consequences of the law. We now have a great high Priest who stands between us and the wrath of God-forever.
If we are still under law then we still stand condemned and the death of Christ on the cross has no power to redeem us. It was a lie-all for naught!
Next question: What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?
We stand condemned until we repent and do works meet to show repentance to do what God said. It's always been that way from the beginning. But that's just one required element.
Dave P

Dahlonega, GA

#280 Aug 31, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
Read "Jesus' Words Only". If you can refute the points brought out and examined by Scriptural and historical records that are not what Paul said - then we can talk.
Until then I guess you have no desire to discuss the topic honestly - only to defend what you've this been told and you don't pay attention to what Jesus said because you're too busy upholding Pauls' doctrines.
You sir have no desire to discuss the topic honestly, because I have brought out points that contradict your theories. They went unanswered and ignored, with you instead sending out more talking points. I did read part of that book, it is available online for free, and it is simply a rehash of what you're spouting on here.

You have also resorted to questioning the knowledge or study habits of those who disagree with you, simply thinking that they are just "unlearned" or "willfully ignorant". Many people have studied your theory in-depth and found it lacking any validity whatsoever.

How is Jesus going to react when you stand before Him if you are wrong about Paul, the NT, the new covenant, etc? Will He even allow you to speak?
Dave P

Dahlonega, GA

#281 Aug 31, 2013
Go on the "Jesus' words only" website. He claims the ORIGINAL gospel of Matthew denies the virgin birth and states Joseph did father Jesus Christ naturally.
Dave P

Nicholasville, KY

#282 Aug 31, 2013
Jesus was a man who was only filled completely with the logos and thus wasn't God?

Jesus' word only site.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#283 Aug 31, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
Read "Jesus' Words Only". If you can refute the points brought out and examined by Scriptural and historical records that are not what Paul said - then we can talk.
Until then I guess you have no desire to discuss the topic honestly - only to defend what you've this been told and you don't pay attention to what Jesus said because you're too busy upholding Pauls' doctrines.
If we read Jesus words only we will have to throw away most of the scripture...

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