pearl

Salt Lake City, UT

#344 Jun 23, 2013
Awesome_Steve_Monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
How are Christians "claiming" dominion over everything? Christians just happen to be MOST of the people - wouldn't they claim dominion over what is theirs?
It is claimed in the first chapter of Genesis, is it not? Doesn't The Bible claim, God gave mankind dominion over every living creature? I'm interested in your statement, "wouldn't they claim dominion over what is theirs" what do you refer to as theirs, the waterways, the wildlife, the environment, the mating grounds of another species? I'm curious to know where you are coming from.
pearl

Salt Lake City, UT

#345 Jun 23, 2013
Awesome_Steve_Monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
You are saying that the Christian religion is responsible for over-population? Do you think that people other than Christians do not pro-create?
Population increase is what happens when people live longer and have a better quality of life. Medicine helps the pregnant women give birth to healthy babies and can even cause people to have 5 or more babies at once. Without a plague or asteroid to wipe out a large portion at a time - it's only logical that the population would grow exponentially. That's math, not religion.
Any species on Earth will populate to the extent of their food supply. It is a rule followed everywhere here with every living thing. It has always been this way. Point being, famine decreases over- populations to the point were it will balance back to what natural resources are available. It works this way with all species. Now agriculturist/Christianity claims these rules do not apply to mankind. So they increase food production to feed those suffering famine, and in turn the fed increase their next generation. One thinks of it as a kindness. An increase in food production will always result in an increase of population. Now this may sound like I'm being heartless, but I'm just stating that this is not sustainable. Yet, western/christian/expansionist seem to pursue unlimited expansion, it part of their doctrine, at the expense of other cultures and species. Mankind is subject to the rules regarding the community of life.
pearl

Salt Lake City, UT

#346 Jun 23, 2013
Awesome_Steve_Monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
You are saying that the Christian religion is responsible for over-population? Do you think that people other than Christians do not pro-create?
Population increase is what happens when people live longer and have a better quality of life. Medicine helps the pregnant women give birth to healthy babies and can even cause people to have 5 or more babies at once. Without a plague or asteroid to wipe out a large portion at a time - it's only logical that the population would grow exponentially. That's math, not religion.
Offering another perspective; say an asteroid or a plague hit, what do you think is the most effective way to guarantee the survival of life on this planet?

Since: Jul 12

Oceana, WV

#347 Jun 23, 2013
pearl wrote:
<quoted text>It is claimed in the first chapter of Genesis, is it not? Doesn't The Bible claim, God gave mankind dominion over every living creature? I'm interested in your statement, "wouldn't they claim dominion over what is theirs" what do you refer to as theirs, the waterways, the wildlife, the environment, the mating grounds of another species? I'm curious to know where you are coming from.
OK, I'm not much of a Bible reader, but I'll assume you are referring to:

Genesis 1:28-30

28 God blessed them and said to them,“Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

29 Then God said,“I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.

It has been pointed out to me that Atheists like to take the Bible out of context to give it new meaning. WHO is God speaking to? If God was speaking to Adam and Eve, perhaps he just gave those two original people dominion over the world and all that is in it. Perhaps he was referring to "mankind" and he meant for ALL people to presume dominance over the Earth and everything else. How could he have meant Christians since there were only two people who existed? Should I have read farther into the Bible book?

I will suggest that here and now, people are allowed ownership of the Earth in exchange for money. If you can sell the food that the Earth produces and you can sell the oil that exists inside the Earth - how is that different from purchasing the Earth itself? So, supposing someone considers himself the owner of an area and what exists inside it - wouldn't he hold dominion over that area? If the Christians are 80% of the land owners, wouldn't 80% of the land be under the dominion of Christians?(I am speaking in terms of US population only, the world is just too big for me to consider everyone all the time).

Since: Jul 12

Oceana, WV

#348 Jun 23, 2013
pearl wrote:
<quoted text>Any species on Earth will populate to the extent of their food supply. It is a rule followed everywhere here with every living thing. It has always been this way. Point being, famine decreases over- populations to the point were it will balance back to what natural resources are available. It works this way with all species. Now agriculturist/Christianity claims these rules do not apply to mankind. So they increase food production to feed those suffering famine, and in turn the fed increase their next generation. One thinks of it as a kindness. An increase in food production will always result in an increase of population. Now this may sound like I'm being heartless, but I'm just stating that this is not sustainable. Yet, western/christian/expansionist seem to pursue unlimited expansion, it part of their doctrine, at the expense of other cultures and species. Mankind is subject to the rules regarding the community of life.
OH, you are saying there wouldn't be so many people if the Christians didn't go around saving them all? LOL - I love it! I never thought of that. I will bring up my theory of balance: naturally, famine would eliminate over-population and that would end the problem. Humans upset the natural balance by preventing what should have happened when they exersized compassion towards those who had to die. This "tips the scales" in the favor of humanity but there must be an equal and opposite effect that humans will DISLIKE as much as they LIKED saving those people: Over-population! So, to solve the problem, you only need to bring back the natural balance and let all those "too many" people die of starvation like they are supposed to.

Pearl, that only works if all humans are jerks. Since we are ABLE to save people's lives, shouldn't we? I suggest that nature will solve over-population, despite our hopes and skills towards saving all the people. Nature is killing more people than ever, right now! Why? Because we have more people than ever! It's the logical thing that will happen. Mankind is arrogant to imagine that they hold dominion over the Earth - their walls do not stop the waves and the storms. You know a mega-volcano is just DYING to burst out on us - how will we save everybody then? We won't because the Earth can solve IT'S problem and there's nothing humans can do to prevent it. Overpopulation is not the handy-work of the Bible - it is nature happening.

Since: Jul 12

Oceana, WV

#349 Jun 23, 2013
pearl wrote:
<quoted text>Offering another perspective; say an asteroid or a plague hit, what do you think is the most effective way to guarantee the survival of life on this planet?
I would suggest the opposite - if we closely inspect our planet and what we know about other planets - one could confidently "guarantee" a time when NO life will survive on this planet - it is the condition of most planets.(I will mention that guarantees are not real, so don't put your faith in that either.)

If an asteroid or a plague hit, we would suffer the consequences and the survivors, if any, will carry on the best way they know how. Guaranteed.(JK)

How could we best prepare ourselves to survive? First we should recognize how dependent we are on society and ponder what we could do if society wasn't around to depend on. Do you have the skills to provide for and protect your family? If you don't, maybe you should spend some time learning a few, they may come in handy.
pearl

Salt Lake City, UT

#350 Jun 24, 2013
Awesome_Steve_Monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
OK, I'm not much of a Bible reader, but I'll assume you are referring to:
Genesis 1:28-30
28 God blessed them and said to them,“Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”
29 Then God said,“I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.
It has been pointed out to me that Atheists like to take the Bible out of context to give it new meaning. WHO is God speaking to? If God was speaking to Adam and Eve, perhaps he just gave those two original people dominion over the world and all that is in it. Perhaps he was referring to "mankind" and he meant for ALL people to presume dominance over the Earth and everything else. How could he have meant Christians since there were only two people who existed? Should I have read farther into the Bible book?
I will suggest that here and now, people are allowed ownership of the Earth in exchange for money. If you can sell the food that the Earth produces and you can sell the oil that exists inside the Earth - how is that different from purchasing the Earth itself? So, supposing someone considers himself the owner of an area and what exists inside it - wouldn't he hold dominion over that area? If the Christians are 80% of the land owners, wouldn't 80% of the land be under the dominion of Christians?(I am speaking in terms of US population only, the world is just too big for me to consider everyone all the time).
You seem to be claiming that mankind can own nature. How can that be? How can man claim dominion over something he is completely dependent on? We as a people can't even survive without the honey bee, especially since we are turning all cultures into agriculturists? As you said people have claimed Atheists take The Bible out of context, I'm claiming Christians take Bible out of context. Adam ""and Eve were not just two people, they were a whole society or culture of hunter/gatherers. Do you really think that one family were herders, farmers and hunter/gathers. Back in the day did nomads farm, no. They were three separate cultures. I can read that you are a thoughtful person, but if you are an Atheist it could be beneficial for you to not look at things through Christian eyes. There are other perspectives. What I am saying, is that of the three Abramhic religions, Christianity is the one that takes the claim of dominion literally, and has used it to further a corrupt agenda. And btw, what Bible are you quoting from, the verses appear to be altered, god certainly denied certain foods to "Adam and Eve"
pearl

Salt Lake City, UT

#351 Jun 24, 2013
Awesome_Steve_Monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
OH, you are saying there wouldn't be so many people if the Christians didn't go around saving them all? LOL - I love it! I never thought of that. I will bring up my theory of balance: naturally, famine would eliminate over-population and that would end the problem. Humans upset the natural balance by preventing what should have happened when they exersized compassion towards those who had to die. This "tips the scales" in the favor of humanity but there must be an equal and opposite effect that humans will DISLIKE as much as they LIKED saving those people: Over-population! So, to solve the problem, you only need to bring back the natural balance and let all those "too many" people die of starvation like they are supposed to.
Pearl, that only works if all humans are jerks. Since we are ABLE to save people's lives, shouldn't we? I suggest that nature will solve over-population, despite our hopes and skills towards saving all the people. Nature is killing more people than ever, right now! Why? Because we have more people than ever! It's the logical thing that will happen. Mankind is arrogant to imagine that they hold dominion over the Earth - their walls do not stop the waves and the storms. You know a mega-volcano is just DYING to burst out on us - how will we save everybody then? We won't because the Earth can solve IT'S problem and there's nothing humans can do to prevent it. Overpopulation is not the handy-work of the Bible - it is nature happening.
No what I am saying is why do these people need to be saved in the first place, because of Christian expansion. The claim that they must multiply and fill the Earth is the reason people are starving, Christianity doesn't solve the overpopulation, famine problem, it promotes it, then comes in and claims to rescue souls from the problem they caused in the first place. Why would a culture in Africa need to be saved, they have been living their traditional lifestyle for thousands of years, and now they need Christians to feed them. Come on, get outside of your Christian thought process. These cultures have been here longer then Christianity, but can no longer survive that way, why do you think that is? And yes humans upset the natural balance {which is not natural} and yes, mother nature will set it right eventually. But you seem to think this is a natural progression when it is not. In thirty five years the population will be at over nine billion, how much longer do you think we can multiply and still feed the masses?
pearl

Salt Lake City, UT

#352 Jun 24, 2013
Awesome_Steve_Monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
I would suggest the opposite - if we closely inspect our planet and what we know about other planets - one could confidently "guarantee" a time when NO life will survive on this planet - it is the condition of most planets.(I will mention that guarantees are not real, so don't put your faith in that either.)
If an asteroid or a plague hit, we would suffer the consequences and the survivors, if any, will carry on the best way they know how. Guaranteed.(JK)
How could we best prepare ourselves to survive? First we should recognize how dependent we are on society and ponder what we could do if society wasn't around to depend on. Do you have the skills to provide for and protect your family? If you don't, maybe you should spend some time learning a few, they may come in handy.
Agreed, someday there will be no life on this planet, but we are talking about an asteroid or a plague. And the best way for life to survive one of those scenarios is diversity. Perhaps mankind could not survive but life in some form could. Perhaps mankind is only the first to have self awareness, does that mean other species could not survive and become self aware? Life should not just be thought of in terms of mankind. There was life before man. I'm trying to take you somewhere you don't appear to want to go, trying to show you there are other ways to see things, other than a Western/Christian perspective.
pearl

Salt Lake City, UT

#353 Jun 24, 2013
Just a note, the live and let live mindset goes against the laws of nature. I know you think it is a compassionate way of life, but all of nature and even God has a live and let die philosophy. Now of course we need compassion and should feed the hungry, yet here in Utah there are bishop warehouses full of food so why is the food under lock and key. Why isn't it being given?

Since: Jul 12

Oceana, WV

#354 Jun 24, 2013
pearl wrote:
<quoted text>You seem to be claiming that mankind can own nature. How can that be? How can man claim dominion over something he is completely dependent on?
Well, I get my Bible verses from the internet since I do not own a Bible. I just Google it up without being particular about which "version" of the Bible I quote - they are all supposed to be translations, not interpretations. I literally did not read any farther into Genesis than ch 1 vs 30. I was raised in a Christian church and so I have heard the stories in Genesis many times - this is the first time, however, that I have tried interpreting it for myself. I am chatting with people who have studied these passages quite a bit - it is what they enjoy discussing and honestly, I was really just looking around for someone to talk to. Religion is something I had not put any thought into for a long time - I brought it up because it seemed like the folks in my hometown, Martinsville, only like to talk about religion. Turns out - these people are not in Martinsville! And neither are you! Weird.

My interpretation of those verses is that God created the Earth and then a few people and so he told them that he made it all for THEM - the people were his most special creation and so they could use the Earth to satisfy their needs.

Well, suppose God didn't create the Earth. Maybe you were born and the Earth was just here waiting for you. Maybe that is the case for every human who has ever existed, including the first one.

Imagine you are the first human to be born on Earth - suppose you are the only human who exists. There would be NO ONE to tell you anything - how do you know anything? You look around - what you can see and hold and smell and taste and use - that stuff is REAL and it must be yours.. you don't see anyone else using it. Who's else could it be?

It is man's function and job to take of and use the Earth to insure his survival. Can men own the Earth? I assure you, men can prove in any court of law what part of the Earth their deed entitles them to, how much it is worth, and if any taxes are owed for the privilege of owning it. We can "own" the Earth like we "own" our shoes - it's ALL stuff that people made up and pass along to others and the truth becomes: OWNERSHIP only exists because humans choose to respect their own idea: ownership. Is it real? It is if we believe it to be. Ownership is NOT real to people who do not understand or respect ownership.

Ownership is respected in the Bible because the Bible is a guide to tell people how to act. The leaders of societies needed their subjects to respect ownership so they could use free land to create profit. "Do not steal" because somebody else owns that! Holding dominion over land and people is something that benefits humans - so, when humans wrote the Bible, ownership of land and property (people!) was an important concept to convince people to respect. They didn't need convincing, ownership was respected before the Bible was written - no wonder it was included.

Since: Jul 12

Oceana, WV

#355 Jun 24, 2013
pearl wrote:
We as a people can't even survive without the honey bee, especially since we are turning all cultures into agriculturists? As you said people have claimed Atheists take The Bible out of context, I'm claiming Christians take Bible out of context. Adam ""and Eve were not just two people, they were a whole society or culture of hunter/gatherers. Do you really think that one family were herders, farmers and hunter/gathers. Back in the day did nomads farm, no. They were three separate cultures. I can read that you are a thoughtful person, but if you are an Atheist it could be beneficial for you to not look at things through Christian eyes. There are other perspectives. What I am saying, is that of the three Abramhic religions, Christianity is the one that takes the claim of dominion literally, and has used it to further a corrupt agenda.
I have Christian eyes, sorry, I was born this way. Well, I was born to a family who taught me Christianity to be fact - an idea I accepted as truth for a very long time. I was quite betrayed to learn that these facts are actually the "belief of some people" and other people's "facts" are different than MINE? Oh, no, how can I believe anyone ever again? And here I am.

I consider myself an atheist because I believe Christian "facts" to actually be myth - honored by our society in the same way that ancient civilizations honored their myths. I think Christians are nice people - the ones I know are - almost every person I know is Christian and they are quite annoyed that I am not.

But about your post, what DO you have against farming? Why shouldn't people plant seeds and eat the food the Earth produces? That's what you're SUPPOSED to do - instead of purchasing frozen pizza and soda pop. It's foolish to not have food when you are able to grow food. I disagree with your prediction that there will be too many people to feed - people are RESOURCEFUL. You don't need Earth to grow food anymore - scientist farmers grow hydroponic vegetables in 12 story buildings. You can buy your vitamins at the drug store. Humanity is not dumb enough to starve to death - oh, unless the resources we have now suddenly become unavailable - electricity, gasoline, clean water, available food - well, then, that would change everything.

I think the concept of "ownership" will be challenged in our future - robbery will become a constant crime against some and required for survival by others.

Since: Jul 12

Oceana, WV

#356 Jun 24, 2013
pearl wrote:
<quoted text>No what I am saying is why do these people need to be saved in the first place, because of Christian expansion. The claim that they must multiply and fill the Earth is the reason people are starving, Christianity doesn't solve the overpopulation, famine problem, it promotes it, then comes in and claims to rescue souls from the problem they caused in the first place. Why would a culture in Africa need to be saved, they have been living their traditional lifestyle for thousands of years, and now they need Christians to feed them. Come on, get outside of your Christian thought process. These cultures have been here longer then Christianity, but can no longer survive that way, why do you think that is? And yes humans upset the natural balance {which is not natural} and yes, mother nature will set it right eventually. But you seem to think this is a natural progression when it is not. In thirty five years the population will be at over nine billion, how much longer do you think we can multiply and still feed the masses?
I see now. Before I was like: WHO is doing this?? Now I remember - the Mormons in Utah! OK - I see your point. These people have lots of kids and some have several wives so they have lots more kids and those kids have kids - are you surrounded by Mormons? They DO take large families very seriously. You still can't blame the Mormons for the over-population of the world.

People who are suffering need to be saved from their suffering. Not only are Christians compassionate towards others, but I am as well, and also other people. I would certainly love to "save" all the people who will be in need when the government pulls their support with hope of saving their lives (not souls) from starvation (not damnation). I can help as much as I can, and others can help if they can, and maybe our combined efforts will "save" somebody. If not, phew, I can't help it - but at least I would have tried. I would want to save a person if I could.

Africans need to be "saved" from being murdered and maimed by their corrupt leaders. Their leaders were corrupted by money, free money that was supposed to feed children but instead lined the pockets of greedy criminals. We should "save" them since it was our idea to create money that would lead to their suffering. Money is the tool of commerce, not religion - money can corrupt religion, but then it's not really religion after that, it's corrupted. Christianity is not the reason African leaders murder and maim their subjects; money and power motivates that behavior.

Over-population is happening naturally. When two people have two babies and those grow up to each have two babies and those grow up to each have two babies... we multiply like rabbits because we ARE like rabbits. What happens when a rabbit population grows too large? If they don't have what they need to live, they will die. And so will we.

Since: Jul 12

Oceana, WV

#357 Jun 24, 2013
pearl wrote:
<quoted text>Agreed, someday there will be no life on this planet, but we are talking about an asteroid or a plague. And the best way for life to survive one of those scenarios is diversity. Perhaps mankind could not survive but life in some form could. Perhaps mankind is only the first to have self awareness, does that mean other species could not survive and become self aware? Life should not just be thought of in terms of mankind. There was life before man. I'm trying to take you somewhere you don't appear to want to go, trying to show you there are other ways to see things, other than a Western/Christian perspective.
I can only view life through my own eyes, influenced by my own experiences and lessons learned. Diversity would definitely better prepare human to survive disaster - I just can't understand how you hold Christianity responsible for the ideas of SOCIETY. It is our culture's fault that we only grow one type of potato and one type of corn - that is a result of COMMERCE, commerce supported by society, not religion. Whatever form of life that is ABLE to survive disaster, WILL. Religion plays no part in this - religion provides hope against what is hopeless - regardless of religion, a hopeless situation deserves no hope - religion gives people what they WANT.

I am really very open to your ideas - I think we scared away the Christians, though. Damn it!

You are so angry at Christians - I don't feel that way. I think Christians are at least as good as they are bad - I wouldn't expect more from anyone else. You seem like you want to blame them - blaming solves nothing. Christians are who they are as a result of all that has happened before now, good or bad, it IS the logical thing for them to be - they utilize what they have been taught. Don't you?

Since: Jul 12

Oceana, WV

#358 Jun 24, 2013
pearl wrote:
Just a note, the live and let live mindset goes against the laws of nature. I know you think it is a compassionate way of life, but all of nature and even God has a live and let die philosophy. Now of course we need compassion and should feed the hungry, yet here in Utah there are bishop warehouses full of food so why is the food under lock and key. Why isn't it being given?
Money. Greed. Commerce. Capitalism. These will all undo our way of life. The stored food you mentioned is owned by someone or some organization or business. The owner of the food will distribute it how he sees fit and your opinion about it makes no difference.

Why do we live in a society where children are allowed to be hungry? We certainly have the resources to feed our population - I thought we WERE doing that. That's what food stamps do.. feed the poor. That's what I would do personally, feed as many poor as I could with the resources I have, supposing that the poor really needed my help in being fed. Compassion for others IS a natural emotion to many other animals than humans. Why would a lion nurture a baby antelope instead of eating it?

Compassion DOES exist - it is just not supported by our society. Even though compassion gets an honorable mention on occasion, the reality is: being compassionate is the opposite of being profitable - our society prefers profit; compassion is just a hobby.

Christianity conflicts sometimes with my ideas about being ethical - but this is not one. Caring for strangers is one of the best things that Christians do - I would encourage everyone to do it.
pearl

Salt Lake City, UT

#359 Jun 25, 2013
Awesome_Steve_Monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, I get my Bible verses from the internet since I do not own a Bible. I just Google it up without being particular about which "version" of the Bible I quote - they are all supposed to be translations, not interpretations. I literally did not read any farther into Genesis than ch 1 vs 30. I was raised in a Christian church and so I have heard the stories in Genesis many times - this is the first time, however, that I have tried interpreting it for myself. I am chatting with people who have studied these passages quite a bit - it is what they enjoy discussing and honestly, I was really just looking around for someone to talk to. Religion is something I had not put any thought into for a long time - I brought it up because it seemed like the folks in my hometown, Martinsville, only like to talk about religion. Turns out - these people are not in Martinsville! And neither are you! Weird.
My interpretation of those verses is that God created the Earth and then a few people and so he told them that he made it all for THEM - the people were his most special creation and so they could use the Earth to satisfy their needs.
Well, suppose God didn't create the Earth. Maybe you were born and the Earth was just here waiting for you. Maybe that is the case for every human who has ever existed, including the first one.
Imagine you are the first human to be born on Earth - suppose you are the only human who exists. There would be NO ONE to tell you anything - how do you know anything? You look around - what you can see and hold and smell and taste and use - that stuff is REAL and it must be yours.. you don't see anyone else using it. Who's else could it be?
It is man's function and job to take of and use the Earth to insure his survival. Can men own the Earth? I assure you, men can prove in any court of law what part of the Earth their deed entitles them to, how much it is worth, and if any taxes are owed for the privilege of owning it. We can "own" the Earth like we "own" our shoes - it's ALL stuff that people made up and pass along to others and the truth becomes: OWNERSHIP only exists because humans choose to respect their own idea: ownership. Is it real? It is if we believe it to be. Ownership is NOT real to people who do not understand or respect ownership.
Ownership is respected in the Bible because the Bible is a guide to tell people how to act. The leaders of societies needed their subjects to respect ownership so they could use free land to create profit. "Do not steal" because somebody else owns that! Holding dominion over land and people is something that benefits humans - so, when humans wrote the Bible, ownership of land and property (people!) was an important concept to convince people to respect. They didn't need convincing, ownership was respected before the Bible was written - no wonder it was included.
According to The Bible everything was here before man, who is supposedly his last and greatest creation. So if you were the first man, you would have looked around and would see other wildlife just like you who ate freely {food was free to all species. Why is that no longer true?} And if mankind is Gods greatest creation why does Christianity claim man is flawed? Is any other beast flawed? Finally there is a big difference between owning shoes and owning nature, that every beast in the world depends on for survival.
pearl

Salt Lake City, UT

#360 Jun 25, 2013
Awesome_Steve_Monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
I have Christian eyes, sorry, I was born this way. Well, I was born to a family who taught me Christianity to be fact - an idea I accepted as truth for a very long time. I was quite betrayed to learn that these facts are actually the "belief of some people" and other people's "facts" are different than MINE? Oh, no, how can I believe anyone ever again? And here I am.
I consider myself an atheist because I believe Christian "facts" to actually be myth - honored by our society in the same way that ancient civilizations honored their myths. I think Christians are nice people - the ones I know are - almost every person I know is Christian and they are quite annoyed that I am not.
But about your post, what DO you have against farming? Why shouldn't people plant seeds and eat the food the Earth produces? That's what you're SUPPOSED to do - instead of purchasing frozen pizza and soda pop. It's foolish to not have food when you are able to grow food. I disagree with your prediction that there will be too many people to feed - people are RESOURCEFUL. You don't need Earth to grow food anymore - scientist farmers grow hydroponic vegetables in 12 story buildings. You can buy your vitamins at the drug store. Humanity is not dumb enough to starve to death - oh, unless the resources we have now suddenly become unavailable - electricity, gasoline, clean water, available food - well, then, that would change everything.
I think the concept of "ownership" will be challenged in our future - robbery will become a constant crime against some and required for survival by others.
Friend, it's not my intention to insult you, but you keep claiming to be Atheist, yet think just like a Christian. I have nothing against a Christian person, it's the Christianity movement that is corrupt, not an individual Christian. You stated earlier that you think the world in overpopulated, but you don't think that is a problem. Have you not noticed that people already do starve to death everyday, in every part of the world? And yes people are resourceful and will take land from other cultures to grow more food to feed more people to allow for more people. It's a vicious cycle. I have nothing against farming, it's the agricultural expansion of people who claim dominion over everything including land used by others that is the problem.
pearl

Salt Lake City, UT

#361 Jun 25, 2013
Awesome_Steve_Monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
I see now. Before I was like: WHO is doing this?? Now I remember - the Mormons in Utah! OK - I see your point. These people have lots of kids and some have several wives so they have lots more kids and those kids have kids - are you surrounded by Mormons? They DO take large families very seriously. You still can't blame the Mormons for the over-population of the world.
People who are suffering need to be saved from their suffering. Not only are Christians compassionate towards others, but I am as well, and also other people. I would certainly love to "save" all the people who will be in need when the government pulls their support with hope of saving their lives (not souls) from starvation (not damnation). I can help as much as I can, and others can help if they can, and maybe our combined efforts will "save" somebody. If not, phew, I can't help it - but at least I would have tried. I would want to save a person if I could.
Africans need to be "saved" from being murdered and maimed by their corrupt leaders. Their leaders were corrupted by money, free money that was supposed to feed children but instead lined the pockets of greedy criminals. We should "save" them since it was our idea to create money that would lead to their suffering. Money is the tool of commerce, not religion - money can corrupt religion, but then it's not really religion after that, it's corrupted. Christianity is not the reason African leaders murder and maim their subjects; money and power motivates that behavior.
Over-population is happening naturally. When two people have two babies and those grow up to each have two babies and those grow up to each have two babies... we multiply like rabbits because we ARE like rabbits. What happens when a rabbit population grows too large? If they don't have what they need to live, they will die. And so will we.
We are going in two different directions. Yes, I live in the land of Mormons and mountains, there is still room out here to stretch, and yes Mormons like their big families. But I'm not blaming Mormons for overpopulation, though they do their share of reproducing. But to my point, what other group or species do you see overpopulating naturally? All species will reproduce to the extend of their food supply. Where else in the wild do you see a species overpopulating? You know,there was a time when all food was free for the taking, for all species including mankind. We have more food than ever, yet none of it is free anymore, someone somewhere claims ownership of all of it. I know this feels normal to you, but it was not always this way. And agricultural expansion is why, just one example of the corruption.

Since: Jul 12

Oceana, WV

#362 Jun 25, 2013
Hey Pearl, I am enjoying our conversation but I am going to start a new discussion entitled: Views from Atheists. I really don't think either of us will be doing much more to prove that God is Real.

Since: Jul 12

Oceana, WV

#364 Jun 26, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
So you are not an Atheist. You are a subset of the New Age movement.
You know - I checked into this. Do you know what New Age Religion is? A melting pot of religious rejects. Part Christian, part Native American, part Buddhist - parts all mixed up a baked in a pie.

I was agreeable with some of the ideas I read, but they were inconsistent. As soon as I recognized something I thought was logical and got excited that I found the right track - turns out some of their ideas are a ridiculous as those that I have already rejected. The blogs I read were mostly critical, so I don't think New-Agers even like their religion.

Can you suggest any readings about the New Age movement that are legitimate? The ideas were interesting to me but I couldn't tell which were "new" and which were old and borrowed from other religions.

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