Roman Catholic Doctrinal evolution

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killedjoe

Lindenhurst, NY

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#164
Aug 1, 2013
 
MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
I take it you have never heard of a Leap Year! Every four years the Gregorian calendar has to be adjusted because the earth takes a bit longer than 365 days to rotate around the sun. Every four years a day is added to the month of February. 2012 was a Leap Year. Next one is 2016. You call it stupidity I call it brilliant. All calendars have that problem. The Gregorian calendar is just better at fixing it than any of the others. And here are some more:
2020
2024
2028
2032
2036
2040
2044
2048
2052
2056
2060
2064
2068
2072
2076
2080
2084
2088
2092
2096
I see your going back to twist my words around. The leap year only came in the 1700's and then installed every four years. Mayan had this already in there calendar. Now let see how you twist this around. Again, the Christian calendar that the world use is to record history before Christ and after christ. In business the jews use it, in private life, the jews still use the 5768.
killedjoe

Lindenhurst, NY

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#165
Aug 1, 2013
 

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MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
We are certainly given texts that baptisms occurred and for what purpose. We are not given the mechanics of how or even who in every instance. We all know the CofC would tell a soldier in the desert who wished to be baptized before battle that it's too damn bad you should have thought of that before getting here.
The rituals of Baptism is has old has Ancient Egypt. Water is a symbol of pure and clean. Also without water, no life exist. The Egyptians use the nile has the life from the "GODS". They would go to cleanse themselves of the evil in the water by the Niles to please the GODS. this custom was then carried with the Hebrews when they left Egypt. Over the 1000' of year the custom continue has a purification of the body from sin. If you read John the Baptise on what he said each time he baptize some one, he ask from them to repent of there sins and turn to God. These pools were thru out the land. If you remember when Jesus cure the blind man by a pool in Jerusalem. Jesus place mud in his eyes and then took water from the pool to cleanse his eyes asking him to repent. Did the water cure the blind man or did Jesus thru God.

Since: May 10

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#166
Aug 1, 2013
 
MarkEden wrote:
No when I say text I mean the word of God.

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#167
Aug 1, 2013
 
MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
We are certainly given texts that baptisms occurred and for what purpose. We are not given the mechanics of how or even who in every instance. We all know the CofC would tell a soldier in the desert who wished to be baptized before battle that it's too damn bad you should have thought of that before getting here.
So are you saying the bible does not enough information on the subject??

Since: Jun 11

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#168
Aug 1, 2013
 
killedjoe wrote:
<quoted text> I see your going back to twist my words around. The leap year only came in the 1700's and then installed every four years. Mayan had this already in there calendar. Now let see how you twist this around. Again, the Christian calendar that the world use is to record history before Christ and after christ. In business the jews use it, in private life, the jews still use the 5768.
Leap Year...46 BC courtesy of Julius Caesar. So which is Christian? The Julian Calendar or the Gregorian Calendar?

I don't have to twist your words around as you leave yourself spinning in the wind every time you post!

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#169
Aug 1, 2013
 

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Catholic doctrines of "universal papal jurisdiction, papal infallibility, purgatory, and the Immaculate Conception" are false because they violate the record of history. In other words, they are doctrines that clearly never entered the minds of the apostles. The earliest Apostolic Fathers also knew nothing about them.

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#170
Aug 1, 2013
 

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JustChristian wrote:
Catholic doctrines of "universal papal jurisdiction, papal infallibility, purgatory, and the Immaculate Conception" are false because they violate the record of history. In other words, they are doctrines that clearly never entered the minds of the apostles. The earliest Apostolic Fathers also knew nothing about them.
You did not write this screed either. These are doctrines that clearly entered the minds of infallible Ecumenical Councils as the Bishops sought concrete explanations to the mystery of Faith.

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#171
Aug 1, 2013
 

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JustChristian wrote:
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No when I say text I mean the word of God.
Whose to say the Didache is not? Well the same infallible Ecumenical Councils that gave us 27 books of the New Testament did not see fit to include it in the Canon.

Where do you go to find out what Christians were doing after the last Apostle died?

Here is an interesting article from the Orthodox perspective. http://orthodox-apologetics.blogspot.com/2010...

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#172
Aug 1, 2013
 
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>So are you saying the bible does not enough information on the subject??
That is what I am saying and so does every other non Sola Scriptura person. So what would you tell a soldier on the battlefield? Wait? Too bad? Or go find a Catholic, Anglican, Lutheran, Presbyterian, or Methodist chaplain.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

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#173
Aug 1, 2013
 

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JustChristian wrote:
Catholic doctrines of "universal papal jurisdiction, papal infallibility, purgatory, and the Immaculate Conception" are false because they violate the record of history. In other words, they are doctrines that clearly never entered the minds of the apostles. The earliest Apostolic Fathers also knew nothing about them.
How can you comment about history when you know nothing about it? I know why you don't bother to learn. "To read history is to cease being Protestant. "

The words Purgatory, which means purification, or papacy might not have been used yet because the Councils had no reason at the time.

Sort of like the Trinity. You accept the word the Councils came up for that. It is not in the Bible.

The Shepherd of Hermas, almost made the Bible. Probably some Bishops traded 1st John for Hermas so they could get Jude in. Something like that.

Origen

If a man departs this life with lighter faults, he is condemned to fire which burns away the lighter materials, and prepares the soul for the kingdom of God, where nothing defiled may enter. For if on the foundation of Christ you have built not only gold and silver and precious stones (I Cor., 3); but also wood and hay and stubble, what do you expect when the soul shall be separated from the body? Would you enter into heaven with your wood and hay and stubble and thus defile the kingdom of God; or on account of these hindrances would you remain without and receive no reward for your gold and silver and precious stones? Neither is this just. It remains then that you be committed to the fire which will burn the light materials; for our God to those who can comprehend heavenly things is called a cleansing fire. But this fire consumes not the creature, but what the creature has himself built, wood, and hay and stubble. It is manifest that the fire destroys the wood of our transgressions and then returns to us the reward of our great works.(Patres Groeci. XIII, col. 445, 448 [A.D. 185-232]).

Hermas

"Therefore shall you [Hermas] write two little books and send one to Clement [Bishop of Rome] and one to Grapte. Clement shall then send it to the cities abroad, because that is his duty" (The Shepherd 2:4:3 [A.D. 80]).



Ignatius of Antioch

"Ignatius ... to the church also which holds the presidency, in the location of the country of the Romans, worthy of God, worthy of honor, worthy of blessing, worthy of praise, worthy of success, worthy of sanctification, and, because you hold the presidency in love, named after Christ and named after the Father" (Letter to the Romans 1:1 [A.D. 110]).

"You [the church at Rome] have envied no one, but others you have taught. I desire only that what you have enjoined in your instructions may remain in force" (ibid., 3:1).

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#174
Aug 5, 2013
 

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MarkEden wrote:
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You did not write this screed either. These are doctrines that clearly entered the minds of infallible Ecumenical Councils as the Bishops sought concrete explanations to the mystery of Faith.
Didnt Paul say he had revealed the mystery of the Faith?

Colossians 1:26

English Standard Version (ESV)

26 the mystery hidden for ages and generations but now revealed to his saints.

Yep he did so if it was revealed at that time Why would the RCC have to re-reveal it?

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#175
Aug 5, 2013
 
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>Didnt Paul say he had revealed the mystery of the Faith?
Colossians 1:26
English Standard Version (ESV)
26 the mystery hidden for ages and generations but now revealed to his saints.
Yep he did so if it was revealed at that time Why would the RCC have to re-reveal it?
Dude you need to lay off the Welchs. So what have you decided to tell the soldier on the battlefield who wants to be baptized?

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#176
Aug 5, 2013
 
MarkEden wrote:
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Dude you need to lay off the Welchs. So what have you decided to tell the soldier on the battlefield who wants to be baptized?
I can only tell them what the word of truth says for them to follow. Would you tell them something else?

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#177
Aug 5, 2013
 
JustChristian wrote:
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I can only tell them what the word of truth says for them to follow. Would you tell them something else?
Yes. I would say run as fast as you can from the CofC. Here is your buddy Philip Schaff who also supported infant baptism:

The usual Form of baptism was immersion. This is inferred from the original meaning of the Greek baptizein and baptismos; [679] from the analogy of John's baptism in the Jordan; from the apostles' comparison of the sacred rite with the miraculous passage of the Red Sea, with the escape of the ark from the flood, with a cleansing and refreshing bath, and with burial and resurrection; finally, from the general custom of the ancient church which prevails in the East to this day.[680] But sprinkling, also, or copious pouring rather, was practised at an early day with sick and dying persons, and in all such cases where total or partial immersion was impracticable. Some writers suppose that this was the case even in the first baptism of the three thousand on the day of Pentecost; for Jerusalem was poorly supplied with water and private baths; the Kedron is a small creek and dry in summer; but there are a number of pools and cisterns there. Hellenistic usage allows to the relevant expressions sometimes the wider sense of washing, bathing, sprinkling, and ceremonial cleansing.[681] Unquestionably, immersion expresses the idea of baptism, as a purification and renovation of the whole man, more completely than pouring or sprinkling; but it is not in keeping with the genius of the gospel to limit the operation of the Holy Spirit by the quantity or the quality of the water or the mode of its application. Water is absolutely necessary to baptism, as an appropriate symbol of the purifying and regenerating energy of the Holy Spirit; but whether the water be in large quantity or small, cold or warm, fresh or salt, from river, cistern, or spring, is relatively immaterial, and cannot affect the validity of the ordinance.

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#178
Aug 5, 2013
 

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MarkEden wrote:
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Yes. I would say run as fast as you can from the CofC. Here is your buddy Philip Schaff who also supported infant baptism:
The usual Form of baptism was immersion. This is inferred from the original meaning of the Greek baptizein and baptismos; [679] from the analogy of John's baptism in the Jordan; from the apostles' comparison of the sacred rite with the miraculous passage of the Red Sea, with the escape of the ark from the flood, with a cleansing and refreshing bath, and with burial and resurrection; finally, from the general custom of the ancient church which prevails in the East to this day.[680] But sprinkling, also, or copious pouring rather, was practised at an early day with sick and dying persons, and in all such cases where total or partial immersion was impracticable. Some writers suppose that this was the case even in the first baptism of the three thousand on the day of Pentecost; for Jerusalem was poorly supplied with water and private baths; the Kedron is a small creek and dry in summer; but there are a number of pools and cisterns there. Hellenistic usage allows to the relevant expressions sometimes the wider sense of washing, bathing, sprinkling, and ceremonial cleansing.[681] Unquestionably, immersion expresses the idea of baptism, as a purification and renovation of the whole man, more completely than pouring or sprinkling; but it is not in keeping with the genius of the gospel to limit the operation of the Holy Spirit by the quantity or the quality of the water or the mode of its application. Water is absolutely necessary to baptism, as an appropriate symbol of the purifying and regenerating energy of the Holy Spirit; but whether the water be in large quantity or small, cold or warm, fresh or salt, from river, cistern, or spring, is relatively immaterial, and cannot affect the validity of the ordinance.
I dont agree with Luther either yet he did do many things to prove the RCC wrong. YOu do know whom Cyrus was dont you?

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#179
Aug 5, 2013
 
MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes. I would say run as fast as you can from the CofC. Here is your buddy Philip Schaff who also supported infant baptism:
The usual Form of baptism was immersion. This is inferred from the original meaning of the Greek baptizein and baptismos; [679] from the analogy of John's baptism in the Jordan; from the apostles' comparison of the sacred rite with the miraculous passage of the Red Sea, with the escape of the ark from the flood, with a cleansing and refreshing bath, and with burial and resurrection; finally, from the general custom of the ancient church which prevails in the East to this day.[680] But sprinkling, also, or copious pouring rather, was practised at an early day with sick and dying persons, and in all such cases where total or partial immersion was impracticable. Some writers suppose that this was the case even in the first baptism of the three thousand on the day of Pentecost; for Jerusalem was poorly supplied with water and private baths; the Kedron is a small creek and dry in summer; but there are a number of pools and cisterns there. Hellenistic usage allows to the relevant expressions sometimes the wider sense of washing, bathing, sprinkling, and ceremonial cleansing.[681] Unquestionably, immersion expresses the idea of baptism, as a purification and renovation of the whole man, more completely than pouring or sprinkling; but it is not in keeping with the genius of the gospel to limit the operation of the Holy Spirit by the quantity or the quality of the water or the mode of its application. Water is absolutely necessary to baptism, as an appropriate symbol of the purifying and regenerating energy of the Holy Spirit; but whether the water be in large quantity or small, cold or warm, fresh or salt, from river, cistern, or spring, is relatively immaterial, and cannot affect the validity of the ordinance.
now I know your trying to jump from subject to subject and even post on different pages to avoid seeing error of your popes religion.

Still have not answered the first question about the RCC and being perfect. And when it was invented.

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#180
Aug 5, 2013
 

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JustChristian wrote:
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I dont agree with Luther either yet he did do many things to prove the RCC wrong. YOu do know whom Cyrus was dont you?
You pick and choose what you like and take literally in the Bible...you choose which word you are going to throw a temper tantrum over...you pick and choose what you like about Martin Luther and Philip Schaff...you sir are a one man Pope and Ecumenical Council. Problem is you have no authority past the end of your nose.

Miley Cyrus?
Billy Ray Cyrus?
Tish Cyrus?
Cyrus the Great?
JustChristian the Idiot?

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#181
Aug 6, 2013
 
MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
You pick and choose what you like and take literally in the Bible...you choose which word you are going to throw a temper tantrum over...you pick and choose what you like about Martin Luther and Philip Schaff...you sir are a one man Pope and Ecumenical Council. Problem is you have no authority past the end of your nose.
Miley Cyrus?
Billy Ray Cyrus?
Tish Cyrus?
Cyrus the Great?
JustChristian the Idiot?
Might want to research before you spout off.

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