Since: May 10

Location hidden

#83 Jul 24, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure he claimed Authority.
What error? He sat at the wrong table to eat?
If the Pope says that he thinks Zimmerman needed to go to jail, I would disagree with him too.
You have no clue.
When the apostles and prophets passed from the earth, their inspired writings became the only means by which we receive God's word. The apostle Paul said, "...How that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets." (Eph. 3:2-5). Thus, since Paul and the other inspired men are no longer with us, their writings become the only authority by which we receive their revelation. Furthermore, Paul said, "If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord." (1 Cor. 14:37). There is no passage anywhere in the Scriptures which states that "oral apostolic traditions," "teachings of the Pope," or "legislations of the church" are the laws of the Lord. Thus, the Scriptures claim for themselves that they alone are the standard of authority in religion. When 3,000 souls obeyed the gospel on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:41) and the Lord added them to the church (Acts 2:47), that group (the church) was not thereby ordained an infallible, legislative body, to reveal God's Word to man. If so, where are the Scriptures which teach it? The church was "the pillar and ground of the truth" (1 Tim. 3:15) in the sense of upholding, defending, and proclaiming the truth (1 Thess. 1:5-9; Phil. 1:7). The authority to reveal, change, or legislate for God was never in the church. The authority was in the inspired men who revealed God's will by first speaking to the people and then by writing the Scriptures.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#84 Jul 24, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
When the apostles and prophets passed from the earth, their inspired writings became the only means by which we receive God's word. The apostle Paul said, "...How that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets." (Eph. 3:2-5). Thus, since Paul and the other inspired men are no longer with us, their writings become the only authority by which we receive their revelation. Furthermore, Paul said, "If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord." (1 Cor. 14:37). There is no passage anywhere in the Scriptures which states that "oral apostolic traditions," "teachings of the Pope," or "legislations of the church" are the laws of the Lord. Thus, the Scriptures claim for themselves that they alone are the standard of authority in religion. When 3,000 souls obeyed the gospel on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:41) and the Lord added them to the church (Acts 2:47), that group (the church) was not thereby ordained an infallible, legislative body, to reveal God's Word to man. If so, where are the Scriptures which teach it? The church was "the pillar and ground of the truth" (1 Tim. 3:15) in the sense of upholding, defending, and proclaiming the truth (1 Thess. 1:5-9; Phil. 1:7). The authority to reveal, change, or legislate for God was never in the church. The authority was in the inspired men who revealed God's will by first speaking to the people and then by writing the Scriptures.
Every heard of Apostolic succession which is clearly shown throughout the NT, and even succession in the OT too?

Nowhere in the Bible does it mention the Bible.

Nowhere does Jesus say that once the Apostle's died a book will be the pillar and foundation of truth.

Like you like to say. Why did Jesus miss that opportunity?

Jesus knew people could not read.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#85 Jul 24, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
When the apostles and prophets passed from the earth, their inspired writings became the only means by which we receive God's word. The apostle Paul said, "...How that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets." (Eph. 3:2-5). Thus, since Paul and the other inspired men are no longer with us, their writings become the only authority by which we receive their revelation. Furthermore, Paul said, "If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord." (1 Cor. 14:37). There is no passage anywhere in the Scriptures which states that "oral apostolic traditions," "teachings of the Pope," or "legislations of the church" are the laws of the Lord. Thus, the Scriptures claim for themselves that they alone are the standard of authority in religion. When 3,000 souls obeyed the gospel on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:41) and the Lord added them to the church (Acts 2:47), that group (the church) was not thereby ordained an infallible, legislative body, to reveal God's Word to man. If so, where are the Scriptures which teach it? The church was "the pillar and ground of the truth" (1 Tim. 3:15) in the sense of upholding, defending, and proclaiming the truth (1 Thess. 1:5-9; Phil. 1:7). The authority to reveal, change, or legislate for God was never in the church. The authority was in the inspired men who revealed God's will by first speaking to the people and then by writing the Scriptures.
So the Ecumenical Councils which whittled down hundreds of writings to the final 27 books of the New Testament did not make an infallible decision? You can't possibly believe this. Try reading the Nicene Creed, the product of Ecumenical Councils, and tell me it is not infallible.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#86 Jul 24, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Every heard of Apostolic succession which is clearly shown throughout the NT, and even succession in the OT too?
Nowhere in the Bible does it mention the Bible.
Nowhere does Jesus say that once the Apostle's died a book will be the pillar and foundation of truth.
Like you like to say. Why did Jesus miss that opportunity?
Jesus knew people could not read.
Heard that term but please briefly tell us what it means so I can address it with you.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#87 Jul 24, 2013
MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
So the Ecumenical Councils which whittled down hundreds of writings to the final 27 books of the New Testament did not make an infallible decision? You can't possibly believe this. Try reading the Nicene Creed, the product of Ecumenical Councils, and tell me it is not infallible.
I gave scripture from a book that you claim to have written and you say its not believable? lol Address the scriptures I gave or call the bible hogwash. Which will you do?

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#88 Jul 25, 2013
MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
So the Ecumenical Councils which whittled down hundreds of writings to the final 27 books of the New Testament did not make an infallible decision? You can't possibly believe this. Try reading the Nicene Creed, the product of Ecumenical Councils, and tell me it is not infallible.
"Akin to these divine laws is the purely ecclesiastical law or the law of the Church. Christ sent forth his Church clothed with his own and his Father's authority,'As the Father sent me, so I send you'. She was to endure, perfect herself, and fulfill her mission on earth. To enable her to carry out this divine plan she makes laws, laws purely ecclesiastical, but laws that have the same binding force as the divine laws themselves, since they bear the stamp of divine authority." (Explanation of Catholic Morals, p. 26).

"Does everyone have to obey the Catholic Church? Yes, because she alone has the authority of Jesus to rule and to teach. To disobey the Catholic Church knowingly is just as much a sin as to disobey Jesus or His Apostles." (A Catechism for Adults, p. 54).

Christ did not give His church the right to make laws. He gave the apostles and prophets the authority to reveal His laws, e.g., "...The things I am writing to you are the Lord's commandments" (1 Cor. 14:37), but He did not delegate to them nor to His church the authority to make laws. Jesus has all authority in heaven and on earth (Matt. 28:18), and He is head over all things of the church (Eph. 1:22); therefore, He alone has the right to ordain what pleases Him in His church. The responsibility of the church is not to make or change laws, but to follow the laws made. The authority is not in the body but in the Head; the ruling is not in the kingdom but in the King; the authority in not in the church but in Christ.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#89 Jul 25, 2013
The Bible does speak of a body of people who would make laws; however, it is not the Lord's church but the great apostasy:

"Now the Spirit expressly says that in after times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceitful spirits and doctrines of devils, speaking lies hypocritically, and having their conscience branded. They will forbid marriage, and will enjoin abstinence from foods, which God has created to be partaken of with thanksgiving by the faithful and by those who know the truth." (1 Tim. 4:1-3).

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#90 Jul 25, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Every heard of Apostolic succession which is clearly shown throughout the NT, and even succession in the OT too?
Nowhere in the Bible does it mention the Bible.
Nowhere does Jesus say that once the Apostle's died a book will be the pillar and foundation of truth.
Like you like to say. Why did Jesus miss that opportunity?
Jesus knew people could not read.
Why can't the Catholic Church ever teach error? Because Jesus promised to be always with His church to protect it from error.'Go therefore, and make disciples of all nations...teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you: and behold, I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world" (Matt. 28:19-20).(A Catechism for Adults, p. 56).

One can easily see that the above Catholic writer is again taking the words which Christ spoke to His apostles and is applying them to the church. The word "church" is not in the passage; it does not say anything about the church much less that it would never teach error. Another Catholic writer makes the same passage teach something altogether different:

"The guidance of Christ, was therefore, to continue with their successors. This is clearly disclosed by the words of Christ:'Behold I am with you all days even to the consummation of the world.' Since the Apostles were not to live until the end of the world, Christ promised to be with them in the person of their successors unto the end of time." (The Faith of Millions, p. 137).

One Catholic writer makes it teach that the church could never teach error and another makes it teach that the apostles must have successors. However, the passage mentioned neither the church nor successors. False teachers jerk passages out of context in this manner to make the Scriptures teach what they want them to teach. Those who do such have the curse of God resting on them (Gal. 1:6-9) and those who blindly follow their false teaching are likewise condemned. Jesus said of the Pharisees and their false teaching, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be rooted up. Let them alone; they are blind guides of blind men. But if a blind man guide a blind man, both fall into a pit." (Matt. 15:13-14).

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#91 Jul 25, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
I gave scripture from a book that you claim to have written and you say its not believable? lol Address the scriptures I gave or call the bible hogwash. Which will you do?
You appear to be the only hog around here that needs washing and you need real unbiased history lessons not propaganda. By the way I've never written a book much less claimed to have done so. I am a main character in a novel which you can find on Amazon but I didn't write it.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#92 Jul 25, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
The Bible does speak of a body of people who would make laws; however, it is not the Lord's church but the great apostasy:
"Now the Spirit expressly says that in after times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceitful spirits and doctrines of devils, speaking lies hypocritically, and having their conscience branded. They will forbid marriage, and will enjoin abstinence from foods, which God has created to be partaken of with thanksgiving by the faithful and by those who know the truth." (1 Tim. 4:1-3).
Proof texting again I see.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#93 Jul 25, 2013
MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
You appear to be the only hog around here that needs washing and you need real unbiased history lessons not propaganda. By the way I've never written a book much less claimed to have done so. I am a main character in a novel which you can find on Amazon but I didn't write it.
Again go seek counsel for answers from your priest and history books since you can not address scripture.

Here answer this.

Is the Bible or the Church perfect?

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#94 Jul 25, 2013
MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
You appear to be the only hog around here that needs washing and you need real unbiased history lessons not propaganda. By the way I've never written a book much less claimed to have done so. I am a main character in a novel which you can find on Amazon but I didn't write it.
Should we ask the Greek Orthodox who uses the same thoughts as your group who is right? They make the same claims the RCC church does about their group so how are they wrong and you right, or why not both of you being right.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#95 Jul 25, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Every heard of Apostolic succession which is clearly shown throughout the NT, and even succession in the OT too?
Nowhere in the Bible does it mention the Bible.
Nowhere does Jesus say that once the Apostle's died a book will be the pillar and foundation of truth.
Like you like to say. Why did Jesus miss that opportunity?
Jesus knew people could not read.
Answer this question

Which is perfect the Bible or the Church?
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#96 Jul 25, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
Answer this question
Which is perfect the Bible or the Church?
The Bible is perfect, the inspired and inerrant written word of God, only because the Church says it is. The Church came before the Bible.

The Church is perfect, the people in it aren't, except when the Pope speaks ex Cathedra.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#97 Jul 25, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text> Again go seek counsel for answers from your priest and history books since you can not address scripture.
Here answer this.
Is the Bible or the Church perfect?
And also the decisions of the Councils

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#98 Jul 25, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
The Bible is perfect, the inspired and inerrant written word of God, only because the Church says it is. The Church came before the Bible.
The Church is perfect, the people in it aren't, except when the Pope speaks ex Cathedra.
It's interesting to note an Ecumenical Council did not proclaim the doctrine of papal infallibility until 1870. Since then it has only been used once...in 1950 and not to teach something brand new but to confirm what the Church in the East and the West had believed for centuries. The 21 Ecumenical Councils have however spoken infallibly many times over two millennia. This is why we have 27 books in the New Testament not 28 or more and why we have the awe inspiring and soaring words of the Nicene Creed.
killedjoe

Lindenhurst, NY

#99 Jul 25, 2013
MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
It's interesting to note an Ecumenical Council did not proclaim the doctrine of papal infallibility until 1870. Since then it has only been used once...in 1950 and not to teach something brand new but to confirm what the Church in the East and the West had believed for centuries. The 21 Ecumenical Councils have however spoken infallibly many times over two millennia. This is why we have 27 books in the New Testament not 28 or more and why we have the awe inspiring and soaring words of the Nicene Creed.
Today it is call a pray. At one time it was a pledge of loyalty. If you say it, you'll know why. "I believe in one holy..........

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#100 Jul 25, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text> Again go seek counsel for answers from your priest and history books since you can not address scripture.
Here answer this.
Is the Bible or the Church perfect?
The Bible is perfect because the Church made it so. You just can't get it in your head and come to grips with the fact that the Church did not suddenly stop when the last Apostle died or the period was placed after last Amen in the Book of Revelation. The Church was not frozen in time and it was left with only the barest guidelines for organization and liturgies. During those early centuries the Church had to deal not only with expanding into multiple locations and nations it had to deal with unimaginable persecution. Fortunately, we know what they did, why they did it and how they did it. We also know nothing remotely like the Baptist church and its spawn the CofC existed then.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#101 Jul 25, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
Should we ask the Greek Orthodox who uses the same thoughts as your group who is right? They make the same claims the RCC church does about their group so how are they wrong and you right, or why not both of you being right.
I am not familiar with Greek Orthodox positions. I do know there are ongoing dialogs between the East and the West. It took over 1,000 years for the schism to occur and it may take that long for reconciliation. My gut feeling is the current Muslim expansion using terror will bring the two much closer and that the differences are primarily ethnic, linguistic and political. Numerous Eastern Rites are already in communion with Rome. Other than that all I know is that Orthodox churches are beautiful, the music is exquisite, the icons and the incense are heavenly, the vestments make Catholics look like poor relations and there are almost never any pews.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#102 Jul 29, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
The Bible is perfect, the inspired and inerrant written word of God, only because the Church says it is. The Church came before the Bible.
The Church is perfect, the people in it aren't, except when the Pope speaks ex Cathedra.
Havent you just contradicted your self here. Would you define the Church.

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