Baptism for remission of sins

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#61 May 15, 2013
Olethros wrote:
<quoted text>
Just because you say it is a lie does not make it so.
<quoted text>
The Church of Christ has an idea about salvation. Why should anybody believe it is God's exact plan about salvation?
I don't see the CoC that Mark, Johnny and James are with, acting biblical or like loving humble Christians. Other churches don't have members lying about young girls and accusing them of pornography, stalking people, trying to cause trouble in the community, having TV shows all about them and their boastful ways instead of about Christ. I can't remember eer seeing Johnny, Mark, James or any other CoC preacher preaching Christ at all.
The more I see the Church of Christ in Martinsville and Danville, the more I'm convinced they are not a true church and not true Christians. If I have no reason to trust them to be Christians then why should I trust their interpretation of the Bible?
You didnt answer my second question... Imagine that.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#62 May 15, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus tells us specifically what works we should do. If you do these things for others you do them for Jesus.
•To feed the hungry;
•To give drink to the thirsty;
•To clothe the naked;
•To harbour the harbourless;
•To visit the sick;
•To ransom the captive;
•To bury the dead.
I agree, but that is a short list. The most important is to love one another as he has loved us.

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#63 May 15, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
You didnt answer my second question.
Yes, I did.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#64 May 15, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree, but that is a short list. The most important is to love one another as he has loved us.
You are right, but all of these show your love. You can say I love you all you want.

Faith without works is dead.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#65 May 15, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
You are right, but all of these show your love. You can say I love you all you want.
Faith without works is dead.
Faith without works is a dead faith because the lack of works reveals an unchanged life or a spiritually dead heart.

10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

How did we become God's handiwork?

God, who is rich in mercy 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

#66 May 15, 2013
Olethros wrote:
Acts 2:38 and "baptized for remission of sins" can be interpreted many number of ways.
Why should anybody trust the Church of Christ and especially Johnny, Mark, James etc when they say they have the only true way to interpret Acts 2:38?
They could be wrong too. They will never say that. But it is true. They could be wrong too.
Jesus and the apostles spoke directly, and it was Satan who pretends to twist things that say one thing to actually mean another thing:-)
Don't trust Johnny, Trust the Holy Spirit who inspired Peter, and trust Yashua, who said immersion is in the middle of being a disciple of His....
God cannot lie, and Acts 2:38,39 is the promise of God.

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#67 May 15, 2013
Barnsweb I have spent all evening studying the scriptures of the New Testament and I still find no clear evidence that water baptism is required for salvation.

I find only clear evidence that we are saved and justified by faith in God.

I also find that works don't save. Works come because of salvation because we want to serve God. Salvation doesn't come because of works.

Jesus said "it is finished" and I believe Him. If there was more to do for salvation, He would never have said it is finished. If water baptism is needed for salvation then Jesus was either mistaken or lying.

Mark 16:16 was thrown onto the real book of Mark long after Mark was written. Serious Bible students know it. If it is real well Jesus still doesn't teach water baptism is required for salvation.

Mark Mcminnis made very rude remarks earlier. A real Christian would not do that without repenting and apologizing. I never have seen anyone in the Martinsville and Danville Churches of Christ admit sin and error and apologize for it. Do they believe themselves perfect and sinless and can get away with not apologizing to others for their bad behavior?

The people of the community see it. Johnny, Mark and James will never convince many people that their group is the one true church. I still hear the church in Danville is less than 10. Meanwhile other congregations of Christians are growing and growing and new churches are being started.
Jon

Martinsville, VA

#68 May 16, 2013
It's all hocus pocus the Bible was put together by Emperor Constantine only allowing certain gospels in the book and editing those that conformed civilization into a slave like mind so he could control the populace. I'm not saying all of the Bible is fake but a lot of it was crafted to convince the people to comply with Governments. I suggest you look into The Gnostic Gospels, but everyone makes their own interpretation anyways. I have a hard time with the ten commandments especially the one that say's "Thou Shalt Not Murder" when so many wars are waged in the name of religion. I guess it just depends on who's doing the murdering.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#69 May 16, 2013
Jon wrote:
It's all hocus pocus the Bible was put together by Emperor Constantine only allowing certain gospels in the book and editing those that conformed civilization into a slave like mind so he could control the populace. I'm not saying all of the Bible is fake but a lot of it was crafted to convince the people to comply with Governments. I suggest you look into The Gnostic Gospels, but everyone makes their own interpretation anyways. I have a hard time with the ten commandments especially the one that say's "Thou Shalt Not Murder" when so many wars are waged in the name of religion. I guess it just depends on who's doing the murdering.
I love history and agnostics and atheist always say this,

Here's a list of the ten most deadly wars in which such counts were historically kept. I could go into a lengthy debate about the history behind each of them, but the short answer is that of all these wars, the only connection I can find to religion is in the Conquests of Timur the Lame and the Conquests of Menelik II of Ethiopia. Timur the Lame considered himself a gh&#257;z&#299; or 'Warrior for the faith' and his biggest wars were fought to defend the Mongols from the Muslim expansion and Menelik fought Muhammad Ahmed Al Mahdi to defend the same Muslim expansion in Ethiopia.

Although Christians are constantly held in contempt for the Crusades, they were also originally fought as a defensive war against the equally vicious armies of Islam. The total number of deaths due to the crusades has been estimated at around nine million, and at least half of those deaths were Christians.

World War II (1939–1945) casualties - 60,000,000–72,000,000
Mongol Conquests (13th century) casualties - 30,000,000–60,000,000
Manchu conquest of Ming China (1616–1662) casualties - 25,000,000
World War I (1914–1918) casualties - 20,000,000–70,000,000
Taiping Rebellion (China, 1851–1864) casualties - 20,000,000
Second Sino-Japanese War (1937–1945) casualties - 20,000,000
Warring States Era (China, 475 BC–221 BC) casualties - 10,000,000
Conquests of Timur the Lame (1360-1405) casualties - 7,000,000 - 20,000,000
Russian Civil War and Foreign Intervention (1917–1921) casualties - 5,000,000–9,000,000
Conquests of Menelik II of Ethiopia (1882- 1898) casualties - 5,000,000

As difficult as it is to believe World War I actually started over the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand, heir to the Austro-Hungarian throne on 28 June 1914. It's hard to imagine that possibly 70 million people died so some government could avenge the death of one man.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#70 May 16, 2013
Olethros wrote:
<quoted text>
Just because you say it is a lie does not make it so.
<quoted text>
The Church of Christ has an idea about salvation. Why should anybody believe it is God's exact plan about salvation?
I don't see the CoC that Mark, Johnny and James are with, acting biblical or like loving humble Christians. Other churches don't have members lying about young girls and accusing them of pornography, stalking people, trying to cause trouble in the community, having TV shows all about them and their boastful ways instead of about Christ. I can't remember eer seeing Johnny, Mark, James or any other CoC preacher preaching Christ at all.
The more I see the Church of Christ in Martinsville and Danville, the more I'm convinced they are not a true church and not true Christians. If I have no reason to trust them to be Christians then why should I trust their interpretation of the Bible?
Above is your answer
Here was the question.

JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>Now about Eph 8-9 You need to read it in whole and rightly divide it.
What could a man boast about? Mans ideas about salvation That he can come up with or Gods plan about Salvation?
Just that answer will work

Now did you answer the question? No.

Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

#71 May 16, 2013
I think you're too close to the forest to see the trees, so to speak. Yes, the work that the Father gave Jesus to do was finished, but noting the emphasis on 'works' in the seven epistles of Revelation, it seems thinking what He did transferring to everyone else to be erroneous thinking. Clever, convincing, but wrong.

Study what Jesus said about it, as well as the apostles and the Father.

Immersion into the name is equated to 'calling on the name of the LORD', and is in the middle of the 'great commission'.

If we abide in His word - then we are disciples indeed and know the truth that sets us free. When we don't abide in the truth of His explicit words, there is no way to know the actual truth.

onediscipletoanother.org
Olethros wrote:
Barnsweb I have spent all evening studying the scriptures of the New Testament and I still find no clear evidence that water baptism is required for salvation.
I find only clear evidence that we are saved and justified by faith in God.
I also find that works don't save. Works come because of salvation because we want to serve God. Salvation doesn't come because of works.
Jesus said "it is finished" and I believe Him. If there was more to do for salvation, He would never have said it is finished. If water baptism is needed for salvation then Jesus was either mistaken or lying.
Mark 16:16 was thrown onto the real book of Mark long after Mark was written. Serious Bible students know it. If it is real well Jesus still doesn't teach water baptism is required for salvation.
Mark Mcminnis made very rude remarks earlier. A real Christian would not do that without repenting and apologizing. I never have seen anyone in the Martinsville and Danville Churches of Christ admit sin and error and apologize for it. Do they believe themselves perfect and sinless and can get away with not apologizing to others for their bad behavior?
The people of the community see it. Johnny, Mark and James will never convince many people that their group is the one true church. I still hear the church in Danville is less than 10. Meanwhile other congregations of Christians are growing and growing and new churches are being started.
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

#72 May 16, 2013
Jon wrote:
It's all hocus pocus the Bible was put together by Emperor Constantine only allowing certain gospels in the book and editing those that conformed civilization into a slave like mind so he could control the populace. I'm not saying all of the Bible is fake but a lot of it was crafted to convince the people to comply with Governments. I suggest you look into The Gnostic Gospels, but everyone makes their own interpretation anyways. I have a hard time with the ten commandments especially the one that say's "Thou Shalt Not Murder" when so many wars are waged in the name of religion. I guess it just depends on who's doing the murdering.
Well, just bypass Constantine and get yourself an Aramaic English New Testament from Netzari Press LLC. See what was really said.

aent.org

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#73 May 16, 2013
Olethros wrote:
Barnsweb I have spent all evening studying the scriptures of the New Testament and I still find no clear evidence that water baptism is required for salvation.
I find only clear evidence that we are saved and justified by faith in God.
I also find that works don't save. Works come because of salvation because we want to serve God. Salvation doesn't come because of works.
Jesus said "it is finished" and I believe Him. If there was more to do for salvation, He would never have said it is finished. If water baptism is needed for salvation then Jesus was either mistaken or lying.
Mark 16:16 was thrown onto the real book of Mark long after Mark was written. Serious Bible students know it. If it is real well Jesus still doesn't teach water baptism is required for salvation.
Mark Mcminnis made very rude remarks earlier. A real Christian would not do that without repenting and apologizing. I never have seen anyone in the Martinsville and Danville Churches of Christ admit sin and error and apologize for it. Do they believe themselves perfect and sinless and can get away with not apologizing to others for their bad behavior?
The people of the community see it. Johnny, Mark and James will never convince many people that their group is the one true church. I still hear the church in Danville is less than 10. Meanwhile other congregations of Christians are growing and growing and new churches are being started.
Works of Man are not necessary, Works of the Law of Moses not necessary, Works of satan not necessary, but Works of God are necessary.

Address this text please

John 6:27

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

27 Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Does works and the gift of eternal life complement each other here or are they in opposition?
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#74 May 16, 2013
Has anyone noticed that the most popular threads are always involved in water baptism debate.

When we know that water baptism is not the gospel then we can concentrate on what really is the gospel and stop condemning one another for not getting the formula exactly right. Water baptism is a genuine part of Christianity but so is obedience in every area of life in Christ. Water baptism is not the crown Jewel that we need to worship.

See how easy it is for me to stir us trouble. If only we could change the focus to life in Christ.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#75 May 16, 2013
Bobby wrote:
Has anyone noticed that the most popular threads are always involved in water baptism debate.
When we know that water baptism is not the gospel then we can concentrate on what really is the gospel and stop condemning one another for not getting the formula exactly right. Water baptism is a genuine part of Christianity but so is obedience in every area of life in Christ. Water baptism is not the crown Jewel that we need to worship.
See how easy it is for me to stir us trouble. If only we could change the focus to life in Christ.
This is why Baptism is so popular. From the CCC.

213 Holy Baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit (vitae spiritualis ianua),4 and the door which gives access to the other sacraments. Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, are incorporated into the Church and made sharers in her mission: "Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration through water in the word."

Sounds pretty important. It has been this important since Jesus told his Apostles to do it.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#76 May 16, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
This is why Baptism is so popular. From the CCC.
213 Holy Baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit (vitae spiritualis ianua),4 and the door which gives access to the other sacraments. Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, are incorporated into the Church and made sharers in her mission: "Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration through water in the word."
Sounds pretty important. It has been this important since Jesus told his Apostles to do it.
Yes water baptism is important.

Jesus was water baptized but it did not save him, did it?

How many sacraments do the Catholics actually practice? I take the word sacrament to mean things that are related to salvation either initially or in order to keep one's salvation.
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

#77 May 16, 2013
We need to place the same value on immersion into Christ as God, Jesus, Peter, and the rest of the apostles did. Paul was not the only one commanded to be baptized! And ample evidence shows it was commanded of believers who had repented, to turn to do the will of God.

Will God save anyone not baptized? Wouldn't we all agree that the child who dies soon after birth would not be condemned to burn in hell forever for not being baptized, and we would all likely agree that an unrepentant rank sinner (thief, murderer, etc..) will not be saved.

The issue is none of us fit that picture of circumstance. We're all adults who have belief in Jesus as Christ. So if we do, what's to argue about? Shouldn't we all trust in the same gospel that has the same requirements that Paul had to obey? I think so.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#78 May 16, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes water baptism is important.
Jesus was water baptized but it did not save him, did it?
How many sacraments do the Catholics actually practice? I take the word sacrament to mean things that are related to salvation either initially or in order to keep one's salvation.
The Apostles taught the Church 7 Sacraments.

1. Baptism
2. Confirmation
3. Eucharist
4. Penance
5. Anointing of the Sick
6. Holy Orders
7. Matrimony
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#79 May 16, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
This is why Baptism is so popular. From the CCC.
213 Holy Baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit (vitae spiritualis ianua),4 and the door which gives access to the other sacraments. Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, are incorporated into the Church and made sharers in her mission: "Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration through water in the word."
Sounds pretty important. It has been this important since Jesus told his Apostles to do it.
Are you and Barnsweb brothers in Christ?
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#80 May 16, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you and Barnsweb brothers in Christ?
If he is baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

From the CCC:

Wounds to unity;

817 In fact, "in this one and only Church from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame."269 The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ's Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism270 - do not occur without human sin:

Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.271
818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers .... All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276

Toward unity

820 "Christ bestowed unity on his Church from the beginning. This unity, we believe, subsists in the Catholic Church as something she can never lose, and we hope that it will continue to increase until the end of time."277 Christ always gives his Church the gift of unity, but the Church must always pray and work to maintain, reinforce, and perfect the unity that Christ wills for her. This is why Jesus himself prayed at the hour of his Passion, and does not cease praying to his Father, for the unity of his disciples: "That they may all be one. As you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be one in us,... so that the world may know that you have sent me."278 The desire to recover the unity of all Christians is a gift of Christ and a call of the Holy Spirit.279

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