Since: May 10

Location hidden

#21 May 13, 2013
Olethros wrote:
Acts 2:38 only says baptism for remission of sins "and you will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
It doesn't say baptism for salvation.
The Church of Christ on TV here doesn't believe in the Holy Ghost being with Christians. I don't know what they believe in its place or why they don't think the Holy Ghost is with us.
Why is baptism required then?
great biblical reasoning. Peter spoke the people ask what shall we do. And I your thought is Peter answer was not about salvation? wow.

37 Now when they heard this, they were [aj]pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles,“[ak]Brethren,[al]wha t shall we do?” 38 Peter said to them,“Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.” 40 And with many other words he solemnly testified and kept on exhorting them, saying,“[am]Be saved from this perverse generation!” 41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand [an]souls.

If this is not about salvation then repentance is not about salvation either, and need not be obeyed.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#22 May 13, 2013
Olethros wrote:
Acts chapter 2 doesn't mention water.
It mentions baptism but it doesn't mention water.
The chapter indicates the baptism is the one of the Holy Spirit, and not a baptism of water.
Acts 2:4 "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."
Those were the disciples and other friends and followers of Jesus who were together on Pentecost. They weren't baptized with water but the Bible makes it plain and clear that they were filled with the Holy Spirit.
Pentecost was well after Christ's death and resurrection. The CoC claims the Old Testament law was done away with when Christ died. CoC people like Johnny, Mark and James say that their Chuch is the church Jesus established and that to enter into it requires baptism by water.
So why are the very first members of the church filled with the Holy Spirit but did not get water baptized first?
Peter has been baptized by the Holy Spirit and filled with it. He tells the crowd to repent of their sins, to accept the Holy Spirit and the comfort it brings with it to know that sins are forgiven, and they too will be filled with it and everything that it gives believers.
Peter says to be baptized by the Holy Spirit. Not baptized with water. That to repent is to invite the Holy Spirit and to let it indwell. Peter and the other followers of Jesus had just been baptized by the Holy Spirit and they are telling everyone else how to b baptized by it too.
About three thousand souls repented and entered the church by their turning to Christ. They entered the Chuch because the were baptized by the Holy Spirit just as Peter and the others had been. They entered the church because of their faith.
That is the only possible meaning of the verse that takes everything in the chapter into consideration, that I can find.
The baptism there IS WATER. Continue reading Acts. "See, here is water, what hinders me from being BAPTIZED".
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#23 May 13, 2013
Olethros: " Acts chapter 2 doesn't mention water.
It mentions baptism but it doesn't mention water.
The chapter indicates the baptism is the one of the Holy Spirit, and not a baptism of water."

I don't understand your point of this statement. If it doesn't mention it in 2 in mentions it other Chapters and books.

BTW Play close attention Ezekiel and prophecy of 'Sprinkling"

John 3:3,5 - Jesus says, "Truly, truly, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." When Jesus said "water and the Spirit," He was referring to baptism (which requires the use of water, and the work of the Spirit).

John 3:22 - after teaching on baptism, John says Jesus and the disciples did what? They went into Judea where the disciples baptized. Jesus' teaching about being reborn by water and the Spirit is in the context of baptism.

John 4:1 - here is another reference to baptism which naturally flows from Jesus' baptismal teaching in John 3:3-5.

Acts 8:36 – the eunuch recognizes the necessity of water for his baptism. Water and baptism are never separated in the Scriptures.

Acts 10:47 - Peter says "can anyone forbid water for baptizing these people..?" The Bible always links water and baptism.

Acts 22:16 – Ananias tells Saul,“arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins.” The “washing away” refers to water baptism.

Titus 3:5-6 – Paul writes about the “washing of regeneration,” which is “poured out on us” in reference to water baptism.“Washing”(loutron) generally refers to a ritual washing with water.

Heb. 10:22 – the author is also writing about water baptism in this verse.“Having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.” Our bodies are washed with pure water in water baptism.

2 Kings 5:14 - Naaman dipped himself seven times in the Jordan, and his flesh was restored like that of a child. This foreshadows the regenerative function of baptism, by water and the Holy Spirit.

Isaiah 44:3 - the Lord pours out His water and His Spirit. Water and the Spirit are linked to baptism. The Bible never separates them.

Ezek. 36:25-27 - the Lord promises He will sprinkle us with water to cleanse us from sin and give us a new heart and spirit. Paul refers to this verse in Heb. 10:22. The teaching of Ezekiel foreshadows the salvific nature of Christian baptism instituted by Jesus and taught in John 3:5, Titus 3:5, 1 Peter 3:21 and Acts 22:16.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#24 May 13, 2013
JesusCreed wrote:
<quoted text>
The baptism there IS WATER. Continue reading Acts. "See, here is water, what hinders me from being BAPTIZED".
Notice there was water available (he does not say how much water) and he did not say what keeps me from being saved?

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#25 May 13, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
Olethros: " Acts chapter 2 doesn't mention water.
It mentions baptism but it doesn't mention water.
The chapter indicates the baptism is the one of the Holy Spirit, and not a baptism of water."
I don't understand your point of this statement. If it doesn't mention it in 2 in mentions it other Chapters and books.
BTW Play close attention Ezekiel and prophecy of 'Sprinkling"
John 3:3,5 - Jesus says, "Truly, truly, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." When Jesus said "water and the Spirit," He was referring to baptism (which requires the use of water, and the work of the Spirit).
John 3:22 - after teaching on baptism, John says Jesus and the disciples did what? They went into Judea where the disciples baptized. Jesus' teaching about being reborn by water and the Spirit is in the context of baptism.
John 4:1 - here is another reference to baptism which naturally flows from Jesus' baptismal teaching in John 3:3-5.
Acts 8:36 – the eunuch recognizes the necessity of water for his baptism. Water and baptism are never separated in the Scriptures.
Acts 10:47 - Peter says "can anyone forbid water for baptizing these people..?" The Bible always links water and baptism.
Acts 22:16 – Ananias tells Saul,“arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins.” The “washing away” refers to water baptism.
Titus 3:5-6 – Paul writes about the “washing of regeneration,” which is “poured out on us” in reference to water baptism.“Washing”(loutron) generally refers to a ritual washing with water.
Heb. 10:22 – the author is also writing about water baptism in this verse.“Having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.” Our bodies are washed with pure water in water baptism.
2 Kings 5:14 - Naaman dipped himself seven times in the Jordan, and his flesh was restored like that of a child. This foreshadows the regenerative function of baptism, by water and the Holy Spirit.
Isaiah 44:3 - the Lord pours out His water and His Spirit. Water and the Spirit are linked to baptism. The Bible never separates them.
Ezek. 36:25-27 - the Lord promises He will sprinkle us with water to cleanse us from sin and give us a new heart and spirit. Paul refers to this verse in Heb. 10:22. The teaching of Ezekiel foreshadows the salvific nature of Christian baptism instituted by Jesus and taught in John 3:5, Titus 3:5, 1 Peter 3:21 and Acts 22:16.
Mike tell us what the word baptize means and where it came from. Also tell us why the eunich waited to be sprinkled oops I mean baptized when he had water on board for the long trip to drink. Why not just sprinkle without waiting for water on the road.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#26 May 13, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
Mike tell us what the word baptize means and where it came from. Also tell us why the eunich waited to be sprinkled oops I mean baptized when he had water on board for the long trip to drink. Why not just sprinkle without waiting for water on the road.
The word Baptism is derived from the Greek word, bapto, or baptizo, to wash or to immerse. The Church was never against immersion is not now.
I love the Eunich story. It helps refute Sola Scriptura reinforces baptism, and supports Apostolic succession.
So he got up and set out. Now there was an Ethiopian eunuch, a court official of the Candace, that is, the queen of the Ethiopians, in charge of her entire treasury, who had come to Jerusalem to worship,28 and was returning home. Seated in his chariot, he was reading the prophet Isaiah.29 The Spirit said to Philip, "Go and join up with that chariot."30 Philip ran up and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and said, "Do you understand what you are reading?"31 He replied, "How can I, unless someone instructs me?" So he invited Philip to get in and sit with him.
32 This was the scripture passage he was reading: "Like a sheep he was led to the slaughter, and as a lamb before its shearer is silent, so he opened not his mouth.33 In (his) humiliation justice was denied him. Who will tell of his posterity? For his life is taken from the earth." 34 Then the eunuch said to Philip in reply, "I beg you, about whom is the prophet saying this? About himself, or about someone else?" 35 Then Philip opened his mouth and, beginning with this scripture passage, he proclaimed Jesus to him. 36 As they traveled along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, "Look, there is water. What is to prevent my being baptized?" 37 38 Then he ordered the chariot to stop, and Philip and the eunuch both went down into the water, and he baptized him. 39 When they came out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away, and the eunuch saw him no more, but continued on his way rejoicing.
Phillip, not long ago was made a Priest by the laying on of hands. Apostolic succession. The Eunuch didnt hire him to preach to him
Even though the Eunuch was very educated he could not understand scripture. Phillip reassured him and said you can't until you have been taught. Sola Scriptura is unbibical
While Phillip was teaching Jesus to him they came upon the water and the Eunuch. They came upon the water while Father Phillip was teaching him. Phillip wasnt through but the Eunuch saw the water and said lets do this now. Didnt need to use his drinking water.
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#27 May 13, 2013
Mike, post 23 is excellent. Post 26 not so much.

Scripture says nothing of being a "priest" in the catholic sense nor apostolic succession. Philip didn't have the same abilities the apostles did.

This also has nothing to do with sola scriptura. Timothy knew the scriptures from childhood. Jesus asked individuals about their understanding from the scriptures.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#28 May 14, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
The word Baptism is derived from the Greek word, bapto, or baptizo, to wash or to immerse. The Church was never against immersion is not now.
I love the Eunich story. It helps refute Sola Scriptura reinforces baptism, and supports Apostolic succession.
So he got up and set out. Now there was an Ethiopian eunuch, a court official of the Candace, that is, the queen of the Ethiopians, in charge of her entire treasury, who had come to Jerusalem to worship,28 and was returning home. Seated in his chariot, he was reading the prophet Isaiah.29 The Spirit said to Philip, "Go and join up with that chariot."30 Philip ran up and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and said, "Do you understand what you are reading?"31 He replied, "How can I, unless someone instructs me?" So he invited Philip to get in and sit with him.
32 This was the scripture passage he was reading: "Like a sheep he was led to the slaughter, and as a lamb before its shearer is silent, so he opened not his mouth.33 In (his) humiliation justice was denied him. Who will tell of his posterity? For his life is taken from the earth." 34 Then the eunuch said to Philip in reply, "I beg you, about whom is the prophet saying this? About himself, or about someone else?" 35 Then Philip opened his mouth and, beginning with this scripture passage, he proclaimed Jesus to him. 36 As they traveled along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, "Look, there is water. What is to prevent my being baptized?" 37 38 Then he ordered the chariot to stop, and Philip and the eunuch both went down into the water, and he baptized him. 39 When they came out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away, and the eunuch saw him no more, but continued on his way rejoicing.
Phillip, not long ago was made a Priest by the laying on of hands. Apostolic succession. The Eunuch didnt hire him to preach to him
Even though the Eunuch was very educated he could not understand scripture. Phillip reassured him and said you can't until you have been taught. Sola Scriptura is unbibical
While Phillip was teaching Jesus to him they came upon the water and the Eunuch. They came upon the water while Father Phillip was teaching him. Phillip wasnt through but the Eunuch saw the water and said lets do this now. Didnt need to use his drinking water.
Why did RCC change full immersion as the word means to include sprinkling?

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#29 May 14, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
The word Baptism is derived from the Greek word, bapto, or baptizo, to wash or to immerse. The Church was never against immersion is not now.
I love the Eunich story. It helps refute Sola Scriptura reinforces baptism, and supports Apostolic succession.
So he got up and set out. Now there was an Ethiopian eunuch, a court official of the Candace, that is, the queen of the Ethiopians, in charge of her entire treasury, who had come to Jerusalem to worship,28 and was returning home. Seated in his chariot, he was reading the prophet Isaiah.29 The Spirit said to Philip, "Go and join up with that chariot."30 Philip ran up and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and said, "Do you understand what you are reading?"31 He replied, "How can I, unless someone instructs me?" So he invited Philip to get in and sit with him.
32 This was the scripture passage he was reading: "Like a sheep he was led to the slaughter, and as a lamb before its shearer is silent, so he opened not his mouth.33 In (his) humiliation justice was denied him. Who will tell of his posterity? For his life is taken from the earth." 34 Then the eunuch said to Philip in reply, "I beg you, about whom is the prophet saying this? About himself, or about someone else?" 35 Then Philip opened his mouth and, beginning with this scripture passage, he proclaimed Jesus to him. 36 As they traveled along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, "Look, there is water. What is to prevent my being baptized?" 37 38 Then he ordered the chariot to stop, and Philip and the eunuch both went down into the water, and he baptized him. 39 When they came out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away, and the eunuch saw him no more, but continued on his way rejoicing.
Phillip, not long ago was made a Priest by the laying on of hands. Apostolic succession. The Eunuch didnt hire him to preach to him
Even though the Eunuch was very educated he could not understand scripture. Phillip reassured him and said you can't until you have been taught. Sola Scriptura is unbibical
While Phillip was teaching Jesus to him they came upon the water and the Eunuch. They came upon the water while Father Phillip was teaching him. Phillip wasnt through but the Eunuch saw the water and said lets do this now. Didnt need to use his drinking water.
Mike if the word Means IMMERSE which it does why did the King James Bible transliterate it as Baptism? Wasnt it to suffice the practice of Sprinkling that was being done? Lets be honest as a RC should be.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#30 May 14, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
Why did RCC change full immersion as the word means to include sprinkling?

Why did you change the word to mean immersion only?

How did the Apostles teach the early Church how to Baptize? All you have to do is look it up. Do you completely ignore history?

Do you disregard verses you don't agree with. The Bible is this AND that , not this NOT that.

Ezek. 36:25-27 - the Lord promises He will sprinkle us with water to cleanse us from sin and give us a new heart and spirit. Paul refers to this verse in Heb. 10:22. The teaching of Ezekiel foreshadows the salvific nature of Christian baptism instituted by Jesus and taught in John 3:5, Titus 3:5, 1 Peter 3:21 and Acts 22:16.

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#31 May 14, 2013
If a person desires to be saved then God will save him.

If a person turns his heart to God, God will not refuse him.

Water baptism is not needed for salvation. A so-called gospel preacher is not needed for salvation either.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#32 May 14, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
Mike if the word Means IMMERSE which it does why did the King James Bible transliterate it as Baptism? Wasnt it to suffice the practice of Sprinkling that was being done? Lets be honest as a RC should be.
You will have ask the KJV translators. Why would you agree with a Bible written for the Anglican Church in which a King or Queen is the head of it?

Ask the men who were taught by the Apostles. Everything that Jesus and the Apostles taught is not in Scripture. Paul specifically says that it wasn't to Bishop Timothy.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#33 May 14, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Why did you change the word to mean immersion only?
How did the Apostles teach the early Church how to Baptize? All you have to do is look it up. Do you completely ignore history?
Do you disregard verses you don't agree with. The Bible is this AND that , not this NOT that.
Ezek. 36:25-27 - the Lord promises He will sprinkle us with water to cleanse us from sin and give us a new heart and spirit. Paul refers to this verse in Heb. 10:22. The teaching of Ezekiel foreshadows the salvific nature of Christian baptism instituted by Jesus and taught in John 3:5, Titus 3:5, 1 Peter 3:21 and Acts 22:16.
Here is what the word in Greek means

1) to dip, dip in, immerse

The word should have been translated to those english words.

BUT that did not fit with what the Catholics were doing and King James translation TRANSLITERATED the word to baptize so their sprinkling practice could remain.

If they would have used the correct Greek word and translated it to english all the scriptures would read IMMERSE as they should.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#34 May 14, 2013
Olethros wrote:
If a person desires to be saved then God will save him.
If a person turns his heart to God, God will not refuse him.
Water baptism is not needed for salvation. A so-called gospel preacher is not needed for salvation either.
Wrong

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#35 May 14, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Why did you change the word to mean immersion only?
How did the Apostles teach the early Church how to Baptize? All you have to do is look it up. Do you completely ignore history?
Do you disregard verses you don't agree with. The Bible is this AND that , not this NOT that.
Ezek. 36:25-27 - the Lord promises He will sprinkle us with water to cleanse us from sin and give us a new heart and spirit. Paul refers to this verse in Heb. 10:22. The teaching of Ezekiel foreshadows the salvific nature of Christian baptism instituted by Jesus and taught in John 3:5, Titus 3:5, 1 Peter 3:21 and Acts 22:16.
Here is what the word for Sprinkle means ZARAQ

1) to scatter, sprinkle, toss, throw, scatter abundantly, strew

This verse tells WHAT God would do Notice the word HE will. This is not what the command to be immmersed given to become a child of God is.

Your confused with a bad tradition.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#36 May 14, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
You will have ask the KJV translators. Why would you agree with a Bible written for the Anglican Church in which a King or Queen is the head of it?
Ask the men who were taught by the Apostles. Everything that Jesus and the Apostles taught is not in Scripture. Paul specifically says that it wasn't to Bishop Timothy.
NOw Please show me the text that says be ZARAQ for your sins.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#37 May 14, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
You will have ask the KJV translators. Why would you agree with a Bible written for the Anglican Church in which a King or Queen is the head of it?
Ask the men who were taught by the Apostles. Everything that Jesus and the Apostles taught is not in Scripture. Paul specifically says that it wasn't to Bishop Timothy.
My personal belief is that the pope is nothing more than a king-his palace is the vatican.

defination:

pal·ace
/&#712;palis/
Noun

The official residence of a sovereign, archbishop, bishop, or other exalted person.
A large, splendid house.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#38 May 14, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
My personal belief is that the pope is nothing more than a king-his palace is the vatican.
defination:
pal·ace
/&#712;palis/
Noun
The official residence of a sovereign, archbishop, bishop, or other exalted person.
A large, splendid house.
Please research what you post. He doesn't live in a Palace.

He is the Vicar of Christ with the keys to the kingdom. He is not a King.

The Pope lives in a nice apartment. 3200 square ft which includes his office, meeting rooms, rooms for his assistants to live. All in 3200 sq ft. That was the size of my last home when I had 4 kids in it.

The Pope who just retired gets 3300 a month plus an apartment.

Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#39 May 14, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
NOw Please show me the text that says be ZARAQ for your sins.
I know it is hard for a Prot. to get this , I was there long ago, but before the NT scriptures were written , there was a Church. When these writers were alive they told the Church exactly what every thing they wrote meant. The Church was there to ask.

The Early Church Fathers did exactly what the Apostles taught them by both the scriptures and by saying hey John, did Jesus really mean real flesh and real blood?

You , 2000 years later are saying the Apostles taught the Church wrong even though Jesus said he would protect the Church from all evil. And he has . 1.2 Billion and still growing.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#40 May 14, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Please research what you post. He doesn't live in a Palace.
He is the Vicar of Christ with the keys to the kingdom. He is not a King.
The Pope lives in a nice apartment. 3200 square ft which includes his office, meeting rooms, rooms for his assistants to live. All in 3200 sq ft. That was the size of my last home when I had 4 kids in it.
The Pope who just retired gets 3300 a month plus an apartment.
People like you and I will never be allowed inside the Vatican so it is very difficult to know how wealthy it is.

I heard on fox news the other day that the Vatican held over 8 billion in gold. They own over 500 million is just a handful of stocks.

They want for nothing. They do however give away a lot of money around the world. Keep in mind that there are over a billion people that can fund the Vatican. They are most definitely wealthy. The hierarchy has anything they want at their disposal.

Our church is wealthy, I don't know for sure but I think our pastor's salary is close to 100 k. So i don't have a problem with funding the work of the Lord.

The us president salary is about 400,000 but he can spend millions on a vacation by using the power of the office-especially when he uses air force one to travel. Not to mention the cost of secret service.

The Pope has similar privileges.

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