Barnsweb

Louisville, OH

#66 Sep 15, 2013
MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
Seems to me it was Alexander Campbell who changed the word baptize to immerse in his New Testament translation called The Living Oracles.
Campbell didn't change the word - he corrected a mistranslation. Even the AENT has 'immersion' from their 167 AD text.

Satan loves to twist words from what they actually said.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#67 Sep 15, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
Campbell didn't change the word - he corrected a mistranslation. Even the AENT has 'immersion' from their 167 AD text.
Satan loves to twist words from what they actually said.
So Jesus was rebuked when he didn't immerse himself before eating.

All Protestants twist words. We know all 40,000 communities can't all be right.

The Church was given the Authority and speaks for Jesus. It is the pillar of Truth.
Anonymous Proxy

Germany

#68 Sep 15, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>

Anybody can write a Catholic Encyclopedia. Please give the publisher and authors of what you quoted from Wikipedia.
It is not a wiki quote. It is Volume II page 263 of the OCE according to one source but OCE is usually left off the statement. I cannot find it and some Catholics have trouble, I thought you might know. Also I cannot find any proof the statement is incorrect. Do you believe the statements of your own Catholic bible, Cardinal Ratzinger, and Eusebius to be wrong also? The NJB was considered to be a very scholarly work by even Protestants. And the church would certainly have given it's stamp of approval.
killedjoe

Lindenhurst, NY

#69 Sep 15, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
So Jesus was rebuked when he didn't immerse himself before eating.
All Protestants twist words. We know all 40,000 communities can't all be right.
The Church was given the Authority and speaks for Jesus. It is the pillar of Truth.
Where and how did the teachings of the trinity come from. Is it in the bible?
Roman Catholic Sproul

Manassas, VA

#70 Sep 15, 2013
Annoying Proxy wrote:
<quoted text>Catholic Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger:
He makes this confession as to the origin of the chief Trinity text of Matthew 28:19. "The basic form of our (Matthew 28:19 Trinitarian) profession of faith took shape during the course of the second and third centuries in connection with the ceremony of baptism. So far as its place of origin is concerned, the text (Matthew 28:19) came from the city of Rome." The Trinity baptism and text of Matthew 28:19 therefore did not originate from the original Church that started in Jerusalem around AD 33. It was rather as the evidence proves a later invention of Roman Catholicism completely fabricated. Very few know about these historical facts.


"The Demonstratio Evangelica" by Eusebius:
Eusebius was the Church historian and Bishop of Caesarea. On page 152 Eusebius quotes the early book of Matthew that he had in his library in Caesarea. According to this eyewitness of an unaltered Book of Matthew that could have been the original book or the first copy of the original of Matthew. Eusebius informs us of Jesus' actual words to his disciples in the original text of Matthew 28:19: "With one word and voice He said to His disciples: "Go, and make disciples of all nations in My Name, teaching them to observe all things whatsover I have commanded you." That "Name" is Jesus.


The Jerusalem Bible, a scholarly Catholic work, states:
"It may be that this formula,(Triune Matthew 28:19) so far as the fullness of its expression is concerned, is a reflection of the (Man-made) liturgical usage established later in the primitive (Catholic) community. It will be remembered that Acts speaks of baptizing "in the name of Jesus,"..."


"It is often affirmed that the words in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost are not the ipsissima verba [exact words] of Jesus, but...a later liturgical additionThe Catholic Encyclopedia, II, page 263:


The Tyndale New Testament Commentaries, I, 275:
"The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son, and Holy Spirit by the Catholic Church in the second century."."
The best answer they can come up with is the Didache, a document they declared as spurious. Since it has sprinkling I expect them to reaffirm it any day. THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE CONCLUSION SINCE THEY, AFTER CLAIMING TO HAVE CREATED THE BIBLE WILL NOT ANSWER WHETHER THEY CHANGED MATTHEW 28:19, THEY DID CHANGE IT. With the Hiller connection, the altar boy scandals of today, the selling of indulgences, the crusades, and Mark and Mike why would changing the scriptures surprise anyone. When they say they created the bible they may be right. They can't refute the claims of changing the bible and if they could they would.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#71 Sep 16, 2013
Roman Catholic Sproul wrote:
<quoted text>The best answer they can come up with is the Didache, a document they declared as spurious. Since it has sprinkling I expect them to reaffirm it any day. THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE CONCLUSION SINCE THEY, AFTER CLAIMING TO HAVE CREATED THE BIBLE WILL NOT ANSWER WHETHER THEY CHANGED MATTHEW 28:19, THEY DID CHANGE IT. With the Hiller connection, the altar boy scandals of today, the selling of indulgences, the crusades, and Mark and Mike why would changing the scriptures surprise anyone. When they say they created the bible they may be right. They can't refute the claims of changing the bible and if they could they would.
No need to refute changing the Bible. It didn't happen. How can you prove a negative.

I can prove every source you have for that is false however.

Didache is only one of hundreds of examples of the actual practices of early Christians.
killedjoe

Lindenhurst, NY

#72 Sep 16, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
You need more teaching.
First of all, let me remind you there are no literature of any kind to support what you believe before 1520, then partly again in 1800 and rest of what you believe changes daily.
Anybody can write a Catholic Encyclopedia. Please give the publisher and authors of what you quoted from Wikipedia.
From an official writing the Church accepts and that was highly considered by a number of early Christians to be part of Canon.
The Didache written during the Apostles time and accepted during that time.
This is what the Church has taught from the day of Pentecost.
Chapter 7. Concerning Baptism. And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. But if you have no living water, baptize into other water; and if you cannot do so in cold water, do so in warm. But if you have neither, pour out water three times upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whoever else can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.
There was no CC at the time of the Pentecostal
killedjoe

Lindenhurst, NY

#73 Sep 16, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
No need to refute changing the Bible. It didn't happen. How can you prove a negative.
I can prove every source you have for that is false however.
Didache is only one of hundreds of examples of the actual practices of early Christians.
Again, where is the trinity in the bible. Where is it said in one sentence calling them Father son and the holy Ghost has one. Jesus said that the father will sent the Holy Ghost donw upon the apostles, but after that where is the trinity.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#74 Sep 16, 2013
I have never been defrocked.
I am confident Mike has never been defrocked.
RC Sproul WAS defrocked.
Roman Catholic Sproul

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#75 Sep 16, 2013
MarkEden wrote:
I have never been defrocked.
I am confident Mike has never been defrocked.
RC Sproul WAS defrocked.
Try it you'll like it.
Roman Catholic Sproul

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#76 Sep 16, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
No need to refute changing the Bible. It didn't happen. How can you prove a negative.
I can prove every source you have for that is false however.
Didache is only one of hundreds of examples of the actual practices of early Christians.
If you say the Matthew 28:19 change never happened you are calling the Catholic Encyclopedia written by Catholics wrong. You are saying the Catholic bible comments are wrong written by Catholic scholars. You also say Catholic Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger along with Eusebius are wrong.
Roman Catholic Sproul

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#77 Sep 16, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
So Jesus was rebuked when he didn't immerse himself before eating.
All Protestants twist words. We know all 40,000 communities can't all be right.
The Church was given the Authority and speaks for Jesus. It is the pillar of Truth.
Where does it say the church is the pillar of truth. Jesus is the truth.
Roman Catholic Sproul

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#78 Sep 16, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
No need to refute changing the Bible. It didn't happen. How can you prove a negative.
I can prove every source you have for that is false however.
Didache is only one of hundreds of examples of the actual practices of early Christians.
Let's see some proof al these are false.
He makes this confession as to the origin of the chief Trinity text of Matthew 28:19. "The basic form of our (Matthew 28:19 Trinitarian) profession of faith took shape during the course of the second and third centuries in connection with the ceremony of baptism. So far as its place of origin is concerned, the text (Matthew 28:19) came from the city of Rome." The Trinity baptism and text of Matthew 28:19 therefore did not originate from the original Church that started in Jerusalem around AD 33. It was rather as the evidence proves a later invention of Roman Catholicism completely fabricated. Very few know about these historical facts.

"The Demonstratio Evangelica" by Eusebius:
Eusebius was the Church historian and Bishop of Caesarea. On page 152 Eusebius quotes the early book of Matthew that he had in his library in Caesarea. According to this eyewitness of an unaltered Book of Matthew that could have been the original book or the first copy of the original of Matthew. Eusebius informs us of Jesus' actual words to his disciples in the original text of Matthew 28:19: "With one word and voice He said to His disciples: "Go, and make disciples of all nations in My Name, teaching them to observe all things whatsover I have commanded you." That "Name" is Jesus.

The Jerusalem Bible, a scholarly Catholic work, states:
"It may be that this formula,(Triune Matthew 28:19) so far as the fullness of its expression is concerned, is a reflection of the (Man-made) liturgical usage established later in the primitive (Catholic) community. It will be remembered that Acts speaks of baptizing "in the name of Jesus,"..."

"It is often affirmed that the words in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost are not the ipsissima verba [exact words] of Jesus, but...a later liturgical additionThe Catholic Encyclopedia, II, page 263:

The Tyndale New Testament Commentaries, I, 275:
"The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son, and Holy Spirit by the Catholic Church in the second century."
killedjoe

Lindenhurst, NY

#79 Sep 17, 2013
killedjoe wrote:
<quoted text> Again, where is the trinity in the bible. Where is it said in one sentence calling them Father son and the holy Ghost has one. Jesus said that the father will sent the Holy Ghost donw upon the apostles, but after that where is the trinity.
HEY Petersen, I am still waiting for an answer.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#80 Sep 17, 2013
Roman Catholic Sproul wrote:
<quoted text>Let's see some proof al these are false.
He makes this confession as to the origin of the chief Trinity text of Matthew 28:19. "The basic form of our (Matthew 28:19 Trinitarian) profession of faith took shape during the course of the second and third centuries in connection with the ceremony of baptism. So far as its place of origin is concerned, the text (Matthew 28:19) came from the city of Rome." The Trinity baptism and text of Matthew 28:19 therefore did not originate from the original Church that started in Jerusalem around AD 33. It was rather as the evidence proves a later invention of Roman Catholicism completely fabricated. Very few know about these historical facts.

"The Demonstratio Evangelica" by Eusebius:
Eusebius was the Church historian and Bishop of Caesarea. On page 152 Eusebius quotes the early book of Matthew that he had in his library in Caesarea. According to this eyewitness of an unaltered Book of Matthew that could have been the original book or the first copy of the original of Matthew. Eusebius informs us of Jesus' actual words to his disciples in the original text of Matthew 28:19: "With one word and voice He said to His disciples: "Go, and make disciples of all nations in My Name, teaching them to observe all things whatsover I have commanded you." That "Name" is Jesus.

The Jerusalem Bible, a scholarly Catholic work, states:
"It may be that this formula,(Triune Matthew 28:19) so far as the fullness of its expression is concerned, is a reflection of the (Man-made) liturgical usage established later in the primitive (Catholic) community. It will be remembered that Acts speaks of baptizing "in the name of Jesus,"..."

"It is often affirmed that the words in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost are not the ipsissima verba [exact words] of Jesus, but...a later liturgical additionThe Catholic Encyclopedia, II, page 263:

The Tyndale New Testament Commentaries, I, 275:
"The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son, and Holy Spirit by the Catholic Church in the second century."
I didn't know you were a Seventh Day Adventist or a Oneness Pentecostal. All of these are from their websites.

1st Paragraph. Not true.

2nd Paragraph. "Could have been". not true

3rd "It may be" wrong

4th No evidence of this anywhere. you can write a Catholic Encyclopedia. wrong

5th. Tyndale was a heretic. Wrong.

The Trinitarian formula was not a late addition to Matthew 28:19. Early Biblical commentators confirm this: all before the Bible was created

Didache - ca 60

Ignatius, ca 110
For those things which the prophets announced, saying,“Until He come for whom it is reserved, and He shall be the expectation of the Gentiles,” have been fulfilled in the Gospel,[our Lord saying,]“Go ye and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.”(Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Philadelphians, 9.2)

Irenaeus, ca 170
And again, giving to the disciples the power of regeneration into God, He said to them, Go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.(Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book III, chap 17.1)

Tertullian, ca 200
Accordingly, after one of these had been struck off, He commanded the eleven others, on His departure to the Father, to go and teach all nations, who were to be baptized into the Father, and into the Son, and into the Holy Ghost.(Tertullian, Prescription Against the Heretics, 20)
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#81 Sep 17, 2013
killedjoe wrote:
<quoted text> HEY Petersen, I am still waiting for an answer.
The word Trinity is not in the Bible. Not everything is in the Bible. The Bible is sufficient for teaching.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#82 Sep 17, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
The word Trinity is not in the Bible. Not everything is in the Bible. The Bible is sufficient for teaching.
But the word Trinity shows up as the first word in the name of countless prot churches from the highest of the high to the lowest of the low. Cracks me up!
killedjoe

Lindenhurst, NY

#83 Sep 17, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
The word Trinity is not in the Bible. Not everything is in the Bible. The Bible is sufficient for teaching.
And you don't seems to think that maybe the 4 apostles "worthy" of "canon" would of mentioned it? HA HA HA. The faults teaching is in front of you but you still deny.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#84 Sep 17, 2013
killedjoe wrote:
<quoted text>And you don't seems to think that maybe the 4 apostles "worthy" of "canon" would of mentioned it? HA HA HA. The faults teaching is in front of you but you still deny.
Beam him up Scotty and hurry!
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#85 Sep 17, 2013
Hey KilledJoe.

Seriously man. What do you do on Saturday or Sunday morning?

Are you allowed to go anywhere? Is there a sign on the building you go to?

This should be interesting.

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