William

Birmingham, AL

#21 Sep 10, 2013
I thought Rufus was the 13th apostle? Ever see the movie "Dogma"? Chris Rock was Rufus.

I've always said it was George Clinton of P-Funk.
Joey N

Martinsville, VA

#22 Sep 10, 2013
13th Apostle wrote:
Before yall go hanging barnsweb on a cross know the facts pertaining to Paul. Jesus’ brother James hated Paul and warned about Paul. Letters found with the Dead Sea Scrolls written by James called Paul "a spouter of lies". The epistle of James was written in part for the trial of Paul at the church of Ephesus (Revelation 2:2) where Paul is that false apostle the Lord spoke about and was tried, found a heretic and expelled. Paul mentions this fact in 2 Timothy 1:15 This you know, that all those in Asia have turned away from me." Tie that with Rev. 2:2.
Acts 24:5 "For we have found this man a plague, a creator of dissension among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes. What man!!?? Paul!!
There is only twelve apostles (Revelation 21:14 on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.) NOT 13.
Revelation 2:2: I know thy works, and thy labor, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
The book of James was written for the trial of Paul at the church of Ephesus. The trail that Yeshua spoke about in Revelation 2:2 where Paul was found to be a heretic and was expelled.
Paul in 2 Timothy 1:15 affirms his excommunication from the church of Ephesus "Asia". 2 Timothy 1:15 This you know, that all those in Asia have turned away from me"
Acts 21:28 crying out, "Men of Israel, help! This is the man (Paul) who teaches all men everywhere against the people (the Jews), the law (Torah), and this place; and furthermore he also brought Greeks into the temple and has defiled this holy place."
This is crazy and not worth even remarking to.
Barnsweb

Louisville, OH

#23 Sep 10, 2013
William wrote:
Barnsweb, I am curious about something.
What do you think that Jesus Christ came into this world to do, exactly?
What did He say He came to do?

Certainly to give His own life blood as the focus of the covenant - that we remember what He has done in that regard. I don't think any Christian can deny that. This was the culmination of His work on earth - but this is not all He came to do.

He came to call us back to do what God actually said to do, rather than being led astray to doctrines of men, which btw, has happened to the Christian faith as it did to those who pretended to follow Torah. Men have neglected the weightier matters and made themselves to be experts and authorities on minor things, while neglecting the more needful and important matters of His teachings.

He came to fulfill all things written of Him up to the point He stopped in His reading the Scroll at the beginning of His earthly ministry, and upon His return, the rest of that verse will certainly be fulfilled as the part He read was in His ministry, teachings and death on the cross - sealed in His blood and His proof by authority over death itself as He arose and became the firstfruits of the resurrection of the dead. This isn't said as a complete accounting, but a general overview that can fit this post.

As the names in Genesis 5 foretold: "Man is appointed mortal sorrow. The blessed God shall come down teaching. His death shall bring the despairing comfort, rest." That sort of sums it up too.

From the beginning sermon He makes the point that what He taught is what we are to both hear and do. Those are the works we are to do - to know what He taught, and to find application of those things in our lives to always seek to do them.

So when Paul says the gospel is the death, burial and resurrection - he leaves out the need to do what He said or even study to know what He taught we should do. John never said this, nor did Matthew. Only Paul. Don't you find that odd if Paul is a teacher of righteousness as Jesus taught?

Paul did say all things are lawful, but not all things are expedient didn't he? Paul did disagree with the Jerusalem decree in what he taught in his letters. Paul is even quite guilty of the charges brought against him in Jerusalem by the Jews regarding the temple matter. Because Luke says 'they supposed' the fact is proven that Luke didn't record the matter of a defense that Paul didn't teach the disciple he made that he had equal access with the Jews and that there was no longer any difference between Jew and Gentile. This is why they held Paul responsible - rightly so, as the poor Gentile only believed what Paul told him - which was a lie. And Paul died at Rome - not delivered from the Gentiles as he claimed he would be. The sad thing is that it is likely Timothy, who Paul put in charge when he was imprisoned, to be the other 'false apostle', who was a disciple and follower of Paul - not the original and orthodox Christians that included Matthew, John, Peter, nor the bishop of the Jerusalem Church - James.

James didn't defend Paul once he found out the charges against Paul were true.
Barnsweb

Louisville, OH

#24 Sep 10, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
The first Pope says you are ignorant. In fact he says all Protestants are
2 Peter
4
Therefore, beloved, since you await these things, be eager to be found without spot or blemish before him, at peace.
15
And consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, as our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, also wrote to you,m
16
speaking of these things* as he does in all his letters. In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures.
17
Therefore, beloved, since you are forewarned, be on your guard not to be led into the error of the unprincipled and to fall from your own stability.n
18
But grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory now and to the day of eternity.[Amen.]
Liar, liar, pants on fire!!!

First, II Peter was not considered genuine by the early Church and was only added to the NT by the RCC. Second - prove the truth by the teachings of Jesus Christ. If you can't, this proves your popes lie and testify not of the truth of Christ Jesus.

I and II John testify of the truth involved very well. Do you ever make effort to harmonize your faith on what Matthew and John wrote of the doctrine of Jesus Christ?

Jesus said to be careful who you hear. I thank Him for saying that, rather than 'Hear the Pope';-) Anyone who does not do whatever He says will be cut off. Better make sure you can prove what you believe is totally in accord with His words from the Father. If you don't receive them, that's your issue, but why do you also want others to follow the pathway to perdition?
Dave P

Cleveland, GA

#25 Sep 10, 2013
William wrote:
I thought Rufus was the 13th apostle? Ever see the movie "Dogma"? Chris Rock was Rufus.
I've always said it was George Clinton of P-Funk.
He is certainly the apostle to the funkadelics.
Barnsweb

Louisville, OH

#26 Sep 10, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
He is certainly the apostle to the funkadelics.
No way! That was George Carlin:-)
William

Birmingham, AL

#27 Sep 11, 2013
"Certainly to give His own life blood as the focus of the covenant - that we remember what He has done in that regard. I don't think any Christian can deny that. This was the culmination of His work on earth - but this is not all He came to do."

So essentially, God allowed his only begotten son to suffer, bleed, and die so that everyone, not just Hebrews that believed that Christ was indeed the Jewish messiah, can now have the privilege of obeying the Torah and becoming righteous in God's sight?

Is that what you are saying? Because that is what it sounds like you are saying.
William

Birmingham, AL

#28 Sep 11, 2013
"James didn't defend Paul once he found out the charges against Paul were true."

Which James are you talking about? The one that wrote the epistle, or the one that was the half-brother of the Lord?
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#29 Sep 11, 2013
William wrote:
"James didn't defend Paul once he found out the charges against Paul were true."
Which James are you talking about? The one that wrote the epistle, or the one that was the half-brother of the Lord?
I like seeing a Prot admitting Mary had no other children. I still say the James you are talking about was a cousin. No word for aunt, uncle, cousin etc.
William

Columbus, GA

#30 Sep 11, 2013
Well there are clearly two different James as recorded in Acts. One was killed early on and that is the one who wrote the epistle to the 12 tribes scattered abroad.
William

Columbus, GA

#31 Sep 11, 2013
Acts 12:2 records death by order of Herod. The other James shows up later.
William

Columbus, GA

#32 Sep 11, 2013
I think the other James was the half-brother of the Lord. Mary had a son by Joseph.

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#33 Sep 11, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
I like seeing a Prot admitting Mary had no other children. I still say the James you are talking about was a cousin. No word for aunt, uncle, cousin etc.
The perpetual virginity of Mary is a false teaching wheeled in by the vehicle of Sacred Tradition.

•Matthew 12:46-47, "While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. And someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You."

•Matthew 13:55 - "Is not this the carpenters son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?"

In both of these verses, if the brothers of Jesus are not brothers, but His cousins, then who is His mother and who is the carpenters father?

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#34 Sep 11, 2013
The icing on the cake is Psalm 69: 4-9

"Those who hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of my head; Those who would destroy me are powerful, being wrongfully my enemies, What I did not steal, I then have to restore. 5O God, it is Thou who dost know my folly, And my wrongs are not hidden from Thee. 6May those who wait for Thee not be ashamed through me, O Lord God of hosts; May those who seek Thee not be dishonored through me, O God of Israel, 7Because for Thy sake I have borne reproach; Dishonor has covered my face. 8I have become estranged from my brothers, and an alien to my MOTHERS SONS. 9 For zeal for Thy house has consumed me, And the reproaches of those who reproach Thee have fallen on me.

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#35 Sep 11, 2013
This Greek word “adelphos” is used in different contexts: of children of the same parents, Jews as a whole, descendants of parents, etc.[Matt. 1:2; 14:3 Acts 7:23, 26; Heb. 7:5 Acts 3:17, 22] Thus the term brother can refer to the cousins of Jesus.

The context defines how we determine what “adelphos” means.

And we must consider the greater context which Psalm 69 states quite clearly “MOTHERS SONS”. This Psalm is about our Lord.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#36 Sep 11, 2013
Answering Catholics wrote:
<quoted text>
The perpetual virginity of Mary is a false teaching wheeled in by the vehicle of Sacred Tradition.
•Matthew 12:46-47, "While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. And someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You."
•Matthew 13:55 - "Is not this the carpenters son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?"
In both of these verses, if the brothers of Jesus are not brothers, but His cousins, then who is His mother and who is the carpenters father?
This is why the Bible specifically says not to interpret scripture.

No word for cousins, aunts, uncles, in aramaic.

Abraham called Lot his brother. Was he? Nope.

James and Joses (Joseph) were cousins of Jesus, probably of Levitical ancestry, and sons of the “other Mary.”

James was the oldest of the brothers, unconvinced about Jesus’ messiahship until the resurrection; Jesus appeared to him then, and he became the leader of the brothers; he also became the leader of the believers in Jerusalem after Peter had to depart (Acts 12:17ff.), and was visited by Paul, who mentions James as a “brother of the Lord” in Galatians.

He was not an apostle, since there were two apostles named James, one of whom was designated as a son of Zebedee (Mark 3:17), along with John, and was martyred under Herod Agrippa I (Acts 12:2), and the other was designated as the Son of Alpaeus (Mark 3:18). James was stoned to death by the Sanhedrin when Annas II, the son of the Annas mentioned in the Gospels, became high priest.

Simon was born seven years before Jesus, according to the chronicles of St. Hegesippus, and chosen as bishop of Jerusalem after the martyrdom of James. Hegesippus writes:“[After James’ death] the son of an uncle of Jesus, Clopas, was installed. All agreed to his precedence, since he was another cousin of the Lord.”

Judas, like Simon, was a son of Clopas, the brother of Jesus’ father, Joseph. According to Hegesippus, two grandsons of Judas were summoned to Rome about 95 A.D., since the Emperor Domitian heard that they were descendants in the Davidic line. But the Emperor released them when it was established that they were farmers with no troublesome claims to the throne of David.
William

Talladega, AL

#37 Sep 11, 2013
Where did all of that stuff come from? Josephus?

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#38 Sep 11, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
This is why the Bible specifically says not to interpret scripture.
No word for cousins, aunts, uncles, in aramaic.
Abraham called Lot his brother. Was he? Nope.
James and Joses (Joseph) were cousins of Jesus, probably of Levitical ancestry, and sons of the “other Mary.”
James was the oldest of the brothers, unconvinced about Jesus’ messiahship until the resurrection; Jesus appeared to him then, and he became the leader of the brothers; he also became the leader of the believers in Jerusalem after Peter had to depart (Acts 12:17ff.), and was visited by Paul, who mentions James as a “brother of the Lord” in Galatians.
He was not an apostle, since there were two apostles named James, one of whom was designated as a son of Zebedee (Mark 3:17), along with John, and was martyred under Herod Agrippa I (Acts 12:2), and the other was designated as the Son of Alpaeus (Mark 3:18). James was stoned to death by the Sanhedrin when Annas II, the son of the Annas mentioned in the Gospels, became high priest.
Simon was born seven years before Jesus, according to the chronicles of St. Hegesippus, and chosen as bishop of Jerusalem after the martyrdom of James. Hegesippus writes:“[After James’ death] the son of an uncle of Jesus, Clopas, was installed. All agreed to his precedence, since he was another cousin of the Lord.”
Judas, like Simon, was a son of Clopas, the brother of Jesus’ father, Joseph. According to Hegesippus, two grandsons of Judas were summoned to Rome about 95 A.D., since the Emperor Domitian heard that they were descendants in the Davidic line. But the Emperor released them when it was established that they were farmers with no troublesome claims to the throne of David.
Are you serious? Try pulling from your Catholic infestation for a while. You care to explain "mothers sons" as addressed in Psalms. I'm not interested in your Catholic dogma and so called Catholic history.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#39 Sep 11, 2013
Answering Catholics wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you serious? Try pulling from your Catholic infestation for a while. You care to explain "mothers sons" as addressed in Psalms. I'm not interested in your Catholic dogma and so called Catholic history.
I once again invite you to name one person from AD 100 to AD 1700 that believes like you.

If you can't then every word you type is make believe. The Bible is just ink on piece of paper to you. Nobody with authority to teach you the word of God. "How can I understand scripture if nobody teaches me"

Even all the high end Prots beleived in the perpetual virginity of our Blessed Mother.

Only low enders like you since 1800 believe otherwise.

As far as you telling the Church that Jesus started with the Apostles and who created the Bible, what it means, you are out of your mind as is anybody who believes in SS.

I wont be like the rest of you Prots. With SS nobody is wrong.

That verse means this.
No it doesnt
Yes it does.
You are not of the Lord
Yes I am .
ROMAN Catholic Sproul

Manassas, VA

#40 Sep 11, 2013
Answering Catholics wrote:
<quoted text>
The perpetual virginity of Mary is a false teaching wheeled in by the vehicle of Sacred Tradition.
•Matthew 12:46-47, "While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. And someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You."
•Matthew 13:55 - "Is not this the carpenters son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?"
In both of these verses, if the brothers of Jesus are not brothers, but His cousins, then who is His mother and who is the carpenters father?
The Catholics have to defend their false doctrine of Mary being a perpetual virgin. Where does it come from? Not the bible. The fact that cousins of Joseph is a possibility is not conclusive at all as it could also mean a child of Joseph as well. An interest couple of verses are these.

Matthew 1:24 When Joseph awoke from sleep he did what the angel of the Lord told him. He took his wife,
Matthew 1:25 but did not have marital relations with her until she gave birth to a son, whom he named Jesus.

This being written several at least 50 plus years after the birth of Jesus it would be a well known fact Mary was a perpetual virgin if it were factual. Would it make any sense at all to make a statement such as verse 25? These verses seem to imply Joseph knew Mary after the birth of Jesus or else why make the statement at all some fifty years later. Also could Mary even be the wife of Joseph if the marriage was never consummated.

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