Let’s look at Paul
William

Birmingham, AL

#244 Feb 21, 2014
"Can you trust Jesus and not do what is listed below and go to heaven?"
From the Catholic bible:

Matthew 19:16-22
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

16 And behold one came and said to him: Good master, what good shall I do that I may have life everlasting?

17 Who said to him: Why asketh thou me concerning good? One is good, God. But if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18 He said to him: Which? And Jesus said: Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness.

19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

20 The young man saith to him: All these I have kept from my youth, what is yet wanting to me?

21 Jesus saith to him: If thou wilt be perfect, go sell what thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come follow me.

22 And when the young man had heard this word, he went away sad: for he had great possessions.

It looks like you'll be needing to eat his flesh and drink his blood, keep the commandments, and also sell out everything that you own and give to the poor to have treasure in heaven.

"The Bible is not either/or . It is that/and."

Sound about right? This is what The Man said to do. Y'all are all big on thumping your chest about your works, so here ya go for what you must do.

If not, why not?
William

Birmingham, AL

#245 Feb 21, 2014
"... and ALSO sell out everything that you own and give to the poor to have treasure in heaven."

My guess is that we were to meet Jesus today in the flesh just like that rich young man did, most of us would not like him very much.
William

Birmingham, AL

#246 Feb 21, 2014
"The Bible is not either/or . It is that/and."

Acts 2:40-45
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

40 And with very many other words did he testify and exhort them, saying: Save yourselves from this perverse generation.

41 They therefore that received his word, were baptized; and there were added in that day about three thousand souls.

42 And they were persevering in the doctrine of the apostles, and in the communication of the breaking of bread, and in prayers.

43 And fear came upon every soul: many wonders also and signs were done by the apostles in Jerusalem, and there was great fear in all.

44 And all they that believed, were together, and had all things common.

45 Their possessions and goods they sold, and divided them to all, according as every one had need.

There it is again. The congregation selling out their possessions and goods, dividing them to all according to need, and having all things common together?

Peter is in charge here, btw.
Dave P

Cleveland, GA

#247 Feb 22, 2014
William wrote:
That's the judgment of the nations. The nations that supported, or rejected, believing Israel during the tribulation, not the salvation of the individual during this dispensation of grace.
No works, lest any should boast. And you, Mike, desperately want to boast about your works. You want God to owe you salvation because you took up a collection plate.
Not going to happen.
Totally disagree, with your interpretation of what you think Matthew 25 is about; and what you think Mike or anyone else wants God to do for them because of "works".
William

Tallassee, AL

#248 Feb 22, 2014
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
Totally disagree, with your interpretation of what you think Matthew 25 is about; and what you think Mike or anyone else wants God to do for them because of "works".
That's cool. Disagreement over the word of God has been going on from the get-go, but one thing is stone-cold certain:

We will all give an account one day for what we as individuals believe, so in that regard we are all equal in our approach to what is written in God's word.

There won't be a Catholic priest or Church of Christ preacher standing there with us at that judgment to answer for us or to intercede for us, so we better make the most of our time getting ready for it.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#249 Feb 22, 2014
"We will all give an account one day for what we as individuals believe, so in that regard we are all equal in our approach to what is written in God's word."

Perfect Protester statement. Billions have not read any book in history much less the Bible.

Think about. You are saying Jesus said he was leaving us a book and it is up to each one to find out the way to salvation based on each of our interpretation. Show me please. Pretty please.

If we have a God playing games like that with us, why even worry about it.
Barnsweb

Dublin, OH

#250 Feb 22, 2014
Indeed, what could we do if God is playing games with us?

Going back to the teachings of Jesus - He said to be hearers and doers of what He taught to be the will of God. Selling all we own - can a history be traced back that this was a commandment of God from the beginning? I haven't seen it, but have seen that God requires caring for those less blessed than ourselves - that one goes way back. Perhaps the passage is Acts quotation is just a ploy to detract from the fact that Jesus taught works - specifically works regarding our love for God shown in doing as He instructed, judging as He has judged, and believing His word to be the truth.

I've never seen anyone who understands the Doctrine of God use that passage against a brother in Christ - but have seen it many times by accusers who refuse to believe and do the will of God or His commandments.

"By their fruits ye shall know them" Are fruits works? Those who believe will be saved, but those who don't obey will be damned? If John the Baptist spoke the truth, most all evangelicals have been hood-winked by Paul.
Dave P

Alto, GA

#251 Feb 22, 2014
You don't have to trash Paul to make your point on this one BW. The evangelical perversion of Paul's teaching on works, and everyone else's accusation that Catholics believe they are saved by their own meritorious works are both asinine.

If someone truly believes they are saved by grace alone through faith alone without works of any kind, perhaps they should live as they believe and see where they end up at when life is over.
Dave P

Alto, GA

#252 Feb 22, 2014
What was the point of telling the young man to sell all his possessions? Were they evil? Was it sinful to have them? Or is Jesus perhaps trying to get the young man to think, and see what His greatest need was?

Were the first century Christians selling all they owned to keep a law, or to help out a brother and sister in need?

Eat His flesh and drink His blood? Didn't Jesus say that if they didn't, they had no life in them?
William

Jasper, AL

#253 Feb 22, 2014
Mike Peterson wrote:
"We will all give an account one day for what we as individuals believe, so in that regard we are all equal in our approach to what is written in God's word."

Perfect Protester statement. Billions have not read any book in history much less the Bible.

Think about. You are saying Jesus said he was leaving us a book and it is up to each one to find out the way to salvation based on each of our interpretation. Show me please. Pretty please.

If we have a God playing games like that with us, why even worry about it.
If you don't like it, you can take it up with God one day, but here it is. Out of your Catholic bible even:

Romans 14:10-12

Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

10 But thou, why judgest thou thy brother? or thou, why dost thou despise thy brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

11 For it is written: As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

12 Therefore every one of us shall render account to God for himself.

"...every one of us" means just what it says. Somebody that didn't get the benefit of the book in time past will still have to give an account of themselves to God.
Barnsweb

Dublin, OH

#254 Feb 23, 2014
Dave P wrote:
What was the point of telling the young man to sell all his possessions? Were they evil? Was it sinful to have them? Or is Jesus perhaps trying to get the young man to think, and see what His greatest need was?
Were the first century Christians selling all they owned to keep a law, or to help out a brother and sister in need?
Eat His flesh and drink His blood? Didn't Jesus say that if they didn't, they had no life in them?
Great point Dave. One of the most faithful men of the Bible, the father of faith, didn't sell all he had and give it to the poor - quite the opposite in fact. God blessed him and his descendants greatly with land and flocks and such.

Would you agree that we are to also ingest His word, that it also sanctify our life by bringing about true repentance to do what God graciously has instructed us to do? Surely this is as needful as what I think you said above.
Barnsweb

Dublin, OH

#255 Feb 23, 2014
William wrote:
<quoted text>
If you don't like it, you can take it up with God one day, but here it is. Out of your Catholic bible even:
Romans 14:10-12
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
10 But thou, why judgest thou thy brother? or thou, why dost thou despise thy brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11 For it is written: As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12 Therefore every one of us shall render account to God for himself.
"...every one of us" means just what it says. Somebody that didn't get the benefit of the book in time past will still have to give an account of themselves to God.
And what did Jesus say? And what of how Paul judged Peter wrongly? The is another account of that event that didn't make it into our Scriptures that shows Paul was doing his usual thing - stirring up contention among brethren - something God said He hates.
William

Columbus, GA

#256 Feb 23, 2014
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
And what did Jesus say? And what of how Paul judged Peter wrongly? The is another account of that event that didn't make it into our Scriptures that shows Paul was doing his usual thing - stirring up contention among brethren - something God said He hates.
Revelation 20 shows a judgment before God too. Unless you have decided to throw out John's writings along with Paul, Luke, and half of Peter's.

You are going to stand and give an account one day at a judgment. Everyone of us will. There is no free pass for anyone, so you better be sure about what you are hanging your hat on regarding what you believe and trust. And who you believe and trust.
William

Columbus, GA

#257 Feb 23, 2014
Dave P wrote:
What was the point of telling the young man to sell all his possessions? Were they evil? Was it sinful to have them? Or is Jesus perhaps trying to get the young man to think, and see what His greatest need was?
He told the man to sell out everything he owned and give the proceeds to the poor, on top of obeying the commandments, and to follow him. The rich young man didn't want to do as he was told, and went away sorrowful because he had great wealth and possessions. That was no parable.

Just imagine Peter and the others not following what he told them, because he told them to do the exact same thing. They were to rely totally and completely on God for their needs and sustenance as they went around with Jesus, preaching the gospel of the kingdom to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

No hanging on to their fishing business, etc.
Barnsweb

Dublin, OH

#258 Feb 23, 2014
"William
Revelation 20 shows a judgment before God too. Unless you have decided to throw out John's writings along with Paul, Luke, and half of Peter's.
You are going to stand and give an account one day at a judgment. Everyone of us will. There is no free pass for anyone, so you better be sure about what you are hanging your hat on regarding what you believe and trust. And who you believe and trust.

Absolutely. We're all going to be judged by the same standard - Jew and Gentile. That standard is the teachings of Jesus Christ. If I can't hang my hat on what He taught, then what hope might men have?
I determine who I believe by the same standard given through Moses, which was also retold by Jesus. Jesus said many false teachers and false prophets would come. The primary way to know the truth is if they speak according to the words of God - they cannot lead people away from doing as He already instructed - even if they work miracles and give true prophecy. The standard to know is the very word of God.
Some claimed to speak for God and Jesus that told people to disregard what God had said to start with - God and Jesus Christ said to not listen to them or be afraid of their threats.
As said before, I trust the OT and writings of the Twelve in the NT.
What do I miss out on the truth by only hearing them? Can you name some necessary things?
Dave P

Danielsville, GA

#259 Feb 23, 2014
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
Would you agree that we are to also ingest His word, that it also sanctify our life by bringing about true repentance to do what God graciously has instructed us to do? Surely this is as needful as what I think you said above.
Yes I would. I do think in the very least that Jesus does at least allude to this in the John 6 passage. It is simply not just about communion or whatever we may call it. Jesus is calling out all to ingest Him and His words totally, as they are bread and life.
Dave P

Danielsville, GA

#260 Feb 23, 2014
William wrote:
<quoted text>
He told the man to sell out everything he owned and give the proceeds to the poor, on top of obeying the commandments, and to follow him. The rich young man didn't want to do as he was told, and went away sorrowful because he had great wealth and possessions. That was no parable.
Just imagine Peter and the others not following what he told them, because he told them to do the exact same thing. They were to rely totally and completely on God for their needs and sustenance as they went around with Jesus, preaching the gospel of the kingdom to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
No hanging on to their fishing business, etc.
The young man also asked, "What do I still lack?" His was a heart problem, not a simple obedience problem.
Barnsweb

Dublin, OH

#261 Feb 23, 2014
That's my biggest concern. As for what I term 'the Lord's Supper' or 'Communion' or 'Sacrament', He said 'as often as ye partake', but abiding in His word is a 24/7 matter and fits with the sermon on the mount and many other passages. We need to always have our ears open to His will. As the genealogy of Genesis 5 says, "Man is appointed mortal sorrow. The blessed God shall come down teaching. His death shall bring the despairing comfort, rest."

And His parables are so true, even today. Many are offended by what He taught - offended at His word, which is why they persecute those who uphold those words of life and light.

We often think of Him as the "light" of the world, but He also calls us to be the light of the world...and we can only do that as we reflect His light in our lives.
William

Birmingham, AL

#262 Feb 23, 2014
Dave P wrote:
The young man also asked, "What do I still lack?" His was a heart problem, not a simple obedience problem.
Matthew 19:20-22

20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

It was a heart problem alright. His heart just wasn't in doing what Jesus flat-out told him to do.

Good thing that Peter and the rest of those disciples that Jesus recruited did do what he told them to do.
William

Birmingham, AL

#263 Feb 23, 2014
Matthew 28:19-20

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

All things means ALL THINGS.

Go back and read what they are.

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