Talk About Homosexuality

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R-oman C-atholic SPROUL

Manassas, VA

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#123
Jul 9, 2013
 
Barnsweb wrote:
I have those considered friends who are homosexual, and when they come by from out of town they get a hotel room and never ask to use our spare bedroom. They have respect for others beliefs. Is that wrong too?
No it is good to be considerate of other people with different beliefs. That is not going to change what the scriptures say on the subject of homosexuality one iota whether they are your friends or not, whether they respect others in the commission of their sin makes no difference. If a murderer tells you he wishes he didn't have to kill you before he does, he is still a murderer. Make a homosexual a bishop all day long and homosexuality is still going to be a sin. The word of God is not going to change because they are considerate or a friend is it?
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

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#124
Jul 9, 2013
 
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
You know, I could understand the police arresting someone from the Westburrow Baptist Church, but here we have what appears to be a balanced telling of calling people to consider repentance, just as the original disciples of Jesus did in their day - and it's cause to be arrested in England? And how many Muslims are arrested for their hate speech? So now it's OK to talk about killing anyone who won't belong to your 'faith', but wrong to tell the truth as you understand it?
Indeed - is truth now a crime? Or is to believe God now a crime?
Awesomemonkey - what do you think?
See, we can agree on most things:-)
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

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#125
Jul 9, 2013
 
R-oman C-atholic SPROUL wrote:
<quoted text>No it is good to be considerate of other people with different beliefs. That is not going to change what the scriptures say on the subject of homosexuality one iota whether they are your friends or not, whether they respect others in the commission of their sin makes no difference. If a murderer tells you he wishes he didn't have to kill you before he does, he is still a murderer. Make a homosexual a bishop all day long and homosexuality is still going to be a sin. The word of God is not going to change because they are considerate or a friend is it?
One of my most memorable days in life was spent in prison while trying to convince one of my sons that bad choices in life have consequences - the 'Scared Straight' program. It was quite an education to be locked behind doors, the dank of sweat and the smell the prison was unique. I don't know how people can be guards, just in the work environment. Knowing only a few hours would end my stay, it was still difficult. But sitting in a room full of convicted murderers with no protection from them is a sobering situation. Know what I learned? They were not any different than any of us - they were there for a moment in their life that they made a bad choice how to handle it. Every story was different - but each made that choice that there is no going back from - someone died at their hand in their rage of being offended and hurt. I'm sure there are other murderers in prison, but in the group to visit my son, this was the common theme. And each of them had profound love for their mother, which is why they all jumped up and had to restrain themselves from more than grabbing my son by the neck for disrespecting his mother in front of them.

I think there are many good and honest people in prison - except they made but one huge mistake in their life. In the same circumstances, I wondered how many people would have done the same thing they did...

So there go I, but for the grace of God.'And deliver us from the evil one.'
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

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#126
Jul 9, 2013
 
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
See, we can agree on most things:-)
:-) Sometimes. Let's discuss my latest topic - was the Law nailed to the cross? Maybe we can both learn something more?

Since: Jul 12

Pineville, WV

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#127
Jul 9, 2013
 
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
You know, I could understand the police arresting someone from the Westburrow Baptist Church, but here we have what appears to be a balanced telling of calling people to consider repentance, just as the original disciples of Jesus did in their day - and it's cause to be arrested in England? And how many Muslims are arrested for their hate speech? So now it's OK to talk about killing anyone who won't belong to your 'faith', but wrong to tell the truth as you understand it?
Indeed - is truth now a crime? Or is to believe God now a crime?
Awesomemonkey - what do you think?
Well - I think everyone here is speculating that what happened in London will next happen here. Again, things DO happen in other countries that are not allowed here. The preacher WAS arrested, but not charged with a crime and was released after several hours. I would suggest that security in that area was very strict since it was nearby Wimbledon and if he was guilty of one thing it was: upsetting someone enough to have him arrested.

Street preaching is certainly allowed in America. Hate speech is NOT allowed. If you make SURE your preaching is spoken respectfully and your message is consistent with the Bible - as this man claims to have done - then you will be protected by the US Constitution - as long as you stay in the US.

The Bible's message is not hate speech. You say that God says that people should not participate in homosexual acts - the Bible DOES say that, right? To tell people not to support or acknowledge a homosexual lifestyle - then you've taken some liberties with God's message, haven't you? In the Bible, a homosexual lifestyle is not mentioned - it doesn't exist, because the people who WROTE the Bible could not have predicted that you would one day be in a battle with the existence of our modern, public, homosexual lifestyle. If your street preaching includes advice to treat homosexual people a certain way or to take actions to actively prevent people from having their homosexual lifestyle - then your speech IS hate speech and you deserve to be arrested. You would be taking God's words and manipulating them into your own prejudices against a group of people. If you want to avoid hate speech, stick to what the Bible says - homosexual acts are a sin. Gays will say: who cares? like they always have before.

Since: Jul 12

Pineville, WV

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#128
Jul 9, 2013
 
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
If we're addressing what is right or not, why leave the topic with homosexuals? What about other behavior the Scriptures say are sin? Do those who justify preaching against homosexuality express the same disdain against adulterers and fornicators? Hardly. Look at the number of Churches that allow couples who are 'shacking up', or the fellowships that have excused their preachers or leadership in homosexual or adulterous affairs. Looks a lot like the pot calling the kettle black.
Since we have all fallen short of the glory of God, we'd be well advised to try to call each other to do the will of God and encourage each other to do the will of God more fully in our own lives. But that cannot be done by saying anything God has declared wrong to somehow be right now. The Spirit is given to those who obey God. Ezekiel 36:26 says He gave the Spirit so we would be lead to keep His words from our hearts - not to merely make up what we fell good about and then declare it good. Those of God look to His words that lead to eternal life and examine themselves by its light and are in the growing process to do what He has said is light and life.
In real life - it doesn't matter what is right or wrong - only what is legal and illegal. If something is wrong but also legal, you have no right to stop anyone from doing it if they want to, despite your objections. It is only "wrong" because you perceive it to be and the law says its "right".

Here is an example: is it right or wrong for me to purchase affordable health care? It is legal for me to do it and so the law says its "right". I have heard opinions that I shouldn't because I would be actively handing over free enterprise to the government. My opinion is that I would have to be foolishly proud to imagine that my tiny choice can in any way prevent this from happening. It is one way I can cut my living expenses - it is an offer I do not think I can refuse. You cannot stop me from doing what is "wrong" because it is legal.

Homosexual lifestyles may be "wrong" as you perceive them, but they are legal and "right" in actuality. Christians are refusing to acknowledge the existence of honest, legal homosexual living people because they don't WANT them to exist. Too bad - they are already here - the LAW is obliged to acknowledge their already existing marriages and families. You are out of line if you are preventing it.
R-oman C-atholic SPROUL

Morehead, KY

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#129
Jul 9, 2013
 
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
One of my most memorable days in life was spent in prison while trying to convince one of my sons that bad choices in life have consequences - the 'Scared Straight' program. It was quite an education to be locked behind doors, the dank of sweat and the smell the prison was unique. I don't know how people can be guards, just in the work environment. Knowing only a few hours would end my stay, it was still difficult. But sitting in a room full of convicted murderers with no protection from them is a sobering situation. Know what I learned? They were not any different than any of us - they were there for a moment in their life that they made a bad choice how to handle it. Every story was different - but each made that choice that there is no going back from - someone died at their hand in their rage of being offended and hurt. I'm sure there are other murderers in prison, but in the group to visit my son, this was the common theme. And each of them had profound love for their mother, which is why they all jumped up and had to restrain themselves from more than grabbing my son by the neck for disrespecting his mother in front of them.
I think there are many good and honest people in prison - except they made but one huge mistake in their life. In the same circumstances, I wondered how many people would have done the same thing they did...
So there go I, but for the grace of God.'And deliver us from the evil one.'
Some people are in our prisons that are innocent. Many more I believe should not be there but because this system feeds off of itself and justice is not their goal. If you get caught in it, it is hard to get free. It is good you brought this up because sin and punishment in our judicial system and with God are two different things. Crime against God (in this case homosexuality) is not a crime presently in our legal system, although homosexuality was a crime for years until recently. Also the punishment can be drastically different God and the legal system. Of course it has always been that way even in the bible with the saints imprisoned.
R-oman C-atholic SPROUL

Morehead, KY

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#130
Jul 9, 2013
 
Awesome_Steve_Monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
Well - I think everyone here is speculating that what happened in London will next happen here. Again, things DO happen in other countries that are not allowed here. The preacher WAS arrested, but not charged with a crime and was released after several hours. I would suggest that security in that area was very strict since it was nearby Wimbledon and if he was guilty of one thing it was: upsetting someone enough to have him arrested.
Street preaching is certainly allowed in America. Hate speech is NOT allowed. If you make SURE your preaching is spoken respectfully and your message is consistent with the Bible - as this man claims to have done - then you will be protected by the US Constitution - as long as you stay in the US.
The Bible's message is not hate speech. You say that God says that people should not participate in homosexual acts - the Bible DOES say that, right? To tell people not to support or acknowledge a homosexual lifestyle - then you've taken some liberties with God's message, haven't you? In the Bible, a homosexual lifestyle is not mentioned - it doesn't exist, because the people who WROTE the Bible could not have predicted that you would one day be in a battle with the existence of our modern, public, homosexual lifestyle. If your street preaching includes advice to treat homosexual people a certain way or to take actions to actively prevent people from having their homosexual lifestyle - then your speech IS hate speech and you deserve to be arrested. You would be taking God's words and manipulating them into your own prejudices against a group of people. If you want to avoid hate speech, stick to what the Bible says - homosexual acts are a sin. Gays will say: who cares? like they always have before.
Homosexual acts are a sin and we are to preach against a life of sin no matter what the sin is, regardless if the sin is legal or not. Only a few years ago homosexuality was a sin and punishable by imprisonment. Did that justify the prison sentences of our sodomy laws at that time? In another decade or two the muslims may be in charge and it may be punishable by death. The word of God does not change and your eternal soul is what really matters rather than this short life. Although God certainly condemns homosexuality, God also can have abundant mercy upon whomever and whatever sin He chooses. It is for God alone to judge but I would be lying to you if I tell you the bible says the homosexual lifestyle is acceptable, the bible tells us it is not.

Since: May 10

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#131
Jul 9, 2013
 
R-oman C-atholic SPROUL wrote:
<quoted text> God also can have abundant mercy upon whomever and whatever sin He chooses.
????? God will have mercy on sin?

Since: Jul 12

Pineville, WV

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#132
Jul 9, 2013
 
R-oman C-atholic SPROUL wrote:
<quoted text>Homosexual acts are a sin and we are to preach against a life of sin no matter what the sin is, regardless if the sin is legal or not. Only a few years ago homosexuality was a sin and punishable by imprisonment. Did that justify the prison sentences of our sodomy laws at that time? In another decade or two the muslims may be in charge and it may be punishable by death. The word of God does not change and your eternal soul is what really matters rather than this short life. Although God certainly condemns homosexuality, God also can have abundant mercy upon whomever and whatever sin He chooses. It is for God alone to judge but I would be lying to you if I tell you the bible says the homosexual lifestyle is acceptable, the bible tells us it is not.
Homosexuality is a sin.

Stop homosexuality.

Do you see the difference between these two statements? One is acceptable and one is not. It is OK for everyone to have an opinion about homosexuality. It is nobody's right to interfere with other people's homosexuality.

If you and God and every other person in the world shares the opinion that homosexuality is a sin, go ahead and shout it from the rooftops in 4 part harmony - it will be nothing more than expressing free speech. As SOON as you suggest that actions are to be taken to PREVENT homosexuality - you have crossed the line into hate speech. No one expects you to accept homosexuality - only that you do not prevent it.

I once worked near a business that offered birth control, disease testing, and access to abortion. Twice monthly a church group would stand outside the business and express their opinion of people who offered access to abortions - they acted non-violently and were within their rights to express their opinion. However, they never interfered with the activities of the business' clients and they did not actually prevent abortions from happening as much as they tried to convince people to choose for themselves NOT to have an abortion. It is OK to try to convince someone to share your opinion - it is not OK to prevent people from doing what you don't like.

You can enjoy your freedom to religious beliefs and freedom to free speech AND gays can enjoy being recognized by the law. This doesn't even HAVE to be a conflict - it seems like a win/win to me. You guys are convinced that somebody has to loose and its not going to be you!
R-oman C-atholic SPROUL

Manassas, VA

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#133
Jul 9, 2013
 
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
????? God will have mercy on sin?
He can,unless of course you tell him he is not allowed.

Since: May 10

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#134
Jul 9, 2013
 

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Awesome_Steve_Monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
Homosexuality is a sin.
Stop homosexuality.
Do you see the difference between these two statements? One is acceptable and one is not. It is OK for everyone to have an opinion about homosexuality. It is nobody's right to interfere with other people's homosexuality.
If you and God and every other person in the world shares the opinion that homosexuality is a sin, go ahead and shout it from the rooftops in 4 part harmony - it will be nothing more than expressing free speech. As SOON as you suggest that actions are to be taken to PREVENT homosexuality - you have crossed the line into hate speech. No one expects you to accept homosexuality - only that you do not prevent it.
I once worked near a business that offered birth control, disease testing, and access to abortion. Twice monthly a church group would stand outside the business and express their opinion of people who offered access to abortions - they acted non-violently and were within their rights to express their opinion. However, they never interfered with the activities of the business' clients and they did not actually prevent abortions from happening as much as they tried to convince people to choose for themselves NOT to have an abortion. It is OK to try to convince someone to share your opinion - it is not OK to prevent people from doing what you don't like.
You can enjoy your freedom to religious beliefs and freedom to free speech AND gays can enjoy being recognized by the law. This doesn't even HAVE to be a conflict - it seems like a win/win to me. You guys are convinced that somebody has to loose and its not going to be you!
Murder is sin

Stop Murder.

Adultery is sin

Stop Adultery.
R-oman C-atholic SPROUL

Manassas, VA

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#135
Jul 9, 2013
 
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
Murder is sin
Stop Murder.
Adultery is sin
Stop Adultery.
Right, nothing special about a particular sin.

Since: Jul 12

Pineville, WV

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#136
Jul 9, 2013
 
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
Murder is sin
Stop Murder.
Adultery is sin
Stop Adultery.
Murder is illegal except for abortion, capitol punishment, self-defense and war. You have the right to prevent people from breaking the law - if you CAN prevent murder, you should! EXCEPT when it is abortion, capitol punishment, self-defense, or war. You are not allowed to prevent those kinds of murder - only to express your opinion about them. I hate murder - all kinds - but I cannot prevent legal murder.

Adultery is a little different - not illegal, necessarily, but grounds for divorce. Even when adultery laws do exist here in America, they are pretty much ignored, am I right? If you witness someone committing adultery, you don't have any right to prevent it. However, you are not required to keep your witnessed information to yourself - you have the right to thwart adulterous activity by spreading the information of it. A person's spouse has the upper hand when filing for divorce if that person is breaking the marital contract by committing adultery. Otherwise, it is any person's choice to commit adultery or not. Your opinion makes no difference - you cannot actively prevent adultery. You can only try to convince others to prevent themselves from doing it. Good luck with that!

Murder is a sin.- OK

Stop Murder.- except abortion, capital punishment, self-defense, or war - that's legal murder

Adultery is a sin.- OK

Stop Adultery.- how so? with a gun? No, you are not allowed to stop adultery.

Your opinion is fine. When you tell people to do something, it should be limited to things that people have a right to do. Do not advise people to stop adultery. Advise people not to choose adultery for themselves and then convince others to share the opinion so you will be preventing adultery by changing people's minds, not controlling their actions.

Since: Jul 12

Pineville, WV

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#137
Jul 9, 2013
 
R-oman C-atholic SPROUL wrote:
<quoted text>Right, nothing special about a particular sin.
Theft is a sin.- OK

Stop theft.- theft is illegal! Stop all theft!

Dishonest is a sin.- OK

Stop dishonesty.- tape everyone's lips together? Impossible goal.

Coveting is a sin.- OK

Stop coveting.- another impossible goal

Disrespecting your parents is a sin.- OK

Stop people from disrespecting their parents.- spank your neighbor's child? NO - bad advise

What are the other sins? Here is the rule: if the sin is illegal, stop it! and advise your subjects to stop it as well. If the sin is legal, you shouldn't instigate people to prevent other people from legally sinning - that's a hate crime against legal sinners.

Some people don't mind sinning. I know I don't mind.
Dave P

Nicholasville, KY

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#138
Jul 9, 2013
 
Awesome_Steve_Monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
Murder is illegal except for abortion, capitol punishment, self-defense and war. You have the right to prevent people from breaking the law - if you CAN prevent murder, you should! EXCEPT when it is abortion, capitol punishment, self-defense, or war. You are not allowed to prevent those kinds of murder - only to express your opinion about them. I hate murder - all kinds - but I cannot prevent legal murder.
Murder is a sin.- OK
Stop Murder.- except abortion, capital punishment, self-defense, or war - that's legal murder
Capitol punishment, self defense, and war aren't necessarily murder. Capitol punishment and self defense certainly aren't. War may not have to be murder.

Since: Jul 12

Pineville, WV

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#139
Jul 9, 2013
 
wiki say: Murder is the unlawful killing, with malice aforethought, of another human, and generally this premeditated state of mind distinguishes murder from other forms of unlawful homicide (such as manslaughter).

Well, according to this, no lawful killing is murder, including abortion.

Perhaps I just meant killing people. I do not support killing people, even legal killing.

“TAKIA AND TA TONKA”

Since: Aug 08

HAPPY TOGETHER!!!

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#142
Jul 16, 2013
 

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Mike Peterson wrote:
However because of the Laws of Nature, a marriage between same sex attracted people cannot naturally create children, it is not considered a valid marriage.
Sorry, but Gays and Lesbians should NEVER have to lead a chastity life in order to please others or religious folks.......in fact there are many Gays and Lesbians who have strong religious convictions even if others disagree with them!!!

Secondly.....we don't live by "Laws of Nature"......we live by the laws of the Constitution and no where in that document does it state that a married couple MUST procreate in order to have their marriage be valid in the eyes of the State or Federal Government!!!

Are you saying that if an opposite-sex couple can not naturally produce children because of infertility, being sterile or past the age of childbearing that those couple's marriage is not valid? Really, according to who? Certainly NOT the state or federal government!!!
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

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#143
Jul 16, 2013
 
NorCal Native wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry, but Gays and Lesbians should NEVER have to lead a chastity life in order to please others or religious folks.......in fact there are many Gays and Lesbians who have strong religious convictions even if others disagree with them!!!
Secondly.....we don't live by "Laws of Nature"......we live by the laws of the Constitution and no where in that document does it state that a married couple MUST procreate in order to have their marriage be valid in the eyes of the State or Federal Government!!!
Are you saying that if an opposite-sex couple can not naturally produce children because of infertility, being sterile or past the age of childbearing that those couple's marriage is not valid? Really, according to who? Certainly NOT the state or federal government!!!
I know you don't live by the "Laws of Nature".

“TAKIA AND TA TONKA”

Since: Aug 08

HAPPY TOGETHER!!!

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#144
Jul 16, 2013
 
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
I know you don't live by the "Laws of Nature".
Really, you know that about me......I know you think your way is correct.....but it's just right for you......there, now we're even......lol!!!

I have family and friends who are legally married and DON'T have children in their current marriages.....are their marriages invalidated because if it? NOPE, and guess what.....NEITHER is mine:-)

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