Talk About Homosexuality

Since: Jul 12

Welch, WV

#185 Jul 17, 2013
Anonymous Proxy wrote:
We were founded a Christian country under God and have since strayed from God, all of us have. Were there any queers that had a part in founding this country? No, the truth is they would have been burned at the stake. Obama truthfully said we are no longer a Christian nation. At least on that one point he is right. It was never intended by our founding fathers for same sex to be married, else it would have been in our Bill of Rights. Our founding fathers were very strongly in favor of individual freedoms. Same sex marriage was not left out by accident.
You are referring to a time when homosexuals deliberately hid their sexuality because they knew the public information could and likely would be somehow used against them. Our foundation was also originated by MEN - but when women's rights groups achieved enough support, our "foundation" was adjusted to accommodate them - since they do, in fact, exist and have rights - but the original documents didn't acknowledge it. Were women left out by accident? The same goes for black people, so why is it so far-fetched to finally acknowledge gay people - it is progress and you are preventing it.

You don't want gay people to have rights because you don't like them.

Since: Jul 12

Welch, WV

#186 Jul 17, 2013
NorCal Native wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't believe in the bible at all.....and the Old Testament was only meant for the Israelite's.....last I check.....I'm not from that part of the world and the bible has so made contradictions that who knows what is going on with it......lol!!!
Man wrote the Old Testament.....just like man wrote the new testament.
OK - now we are in new territory - you are a Christian, but you accept the Bible as a man-written guideline. This would explain any contradictions within the Bible - men are fallible and able to miscommunicate their ideas - they are subject to environmental influences and so their literature is subjective to human err. I agree completely.

This is not the attitude of many of the posters in this forum - they study every word of the Bible and consider them all holy and none should be disregarded. When I have pointed out some contradictions, the point was made that these are different books and the context of the writings should be taken into consideration - you mentioned that the NT was directed towards Isrealites - it was explained to me that Leviticus was directed towards the Levites and so does not apply to everyone. Are you saying that the NT does not apply to us?

I can easily disregard the Bible since I do not believe the teachings - I consider them to be fiction. What IS your relationship with the Bible and how is it used within your Christian religion?

Since: Jul 12

Welch, WV

#187 Jul 17, 2013
Anonymous Proxy wrote:
<quoted text>Not so reprobate.
http://www.usachristianministries.com/2011/11...
Until 1975 the APA considered homosexuality a mental disorder. The sodomy laws were still on the books as little as 100 years ago. This acceptance of perversion as natural, is relatively speaking, very recent.
Why have laws and definitions been changed throughout these years? Is it because they were written and then later deemed to be incorrect? You WANT homosexual acts to be illegal or punished and so you are holding tightly to outdated laws and literature that support your view.

You are disregarding a long history of homosexual discrimination and oppression - it is my goal to help change this - it has always been wrong even though it has been allowed.

Since: Jul 12

Welch, WV

#188 Jul 17, 2013
NorCal Native wrote:
<quoted text>
So, that has NOTHING to do with this Country NOT being a Christian nation:
http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers...
"The words "Jesus Christ, Christianity, Bible, Creator, Divine, and God" are never mentioned in the Constitution-- not even once."

Two points for you NorCal!

Since: Jul 12

Welch, WV

#189 Jul 17, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
lol and your trying to tell me about a book you dont believe in. not thats neat.
I believe the Bible exists - I just do not believe it is God's words.

Since: Jul 12

Welch, WV

#190 Jul 17, 2013
killedjoe wrote:
<quoted text> The KJV is not exactly 100% accurate. It was translated from the Greek language by King James. That is why it is called to this day King James Version. A belief of what the words that were translated mean. I know most folks don't understand this, but Let me say this. Their is an old saying," it's Greek to me" Another words, "what did you say." The greek language was a very unusual language. Compare to all the languages, it was very difference. If you go to the book store and buy a bible that was translated from the Hebrew. It is almost like reading 2 difference books. Remember the title, KING JAMES VERSION. His version of what he think it says. PS, you right, no where in the book it says homosexual. But it does say for man not to lay down with animals or man.
I agree that much of the Bible message has been interpreted by translation and then interpreted by people individually. This would be the only explanation for all of the denominations of Christianity - different interpretations of the same words.

How can you know that the rule than man should not lay down with man is anything more than people convincing people not to be gay? The 10 Commandments are the supposed actual rules that God proclaimed - why isn't that rule mentioned?

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#191 Jul 17, 2013
have a bad day at walmart honey?

Since: Jul 12

Welch, WV

#192 Jul 17, 2013
killedjoe wrote:
<quoted text> Just a thought. I too , believe in science. The book is a science book, it just that you never read it. You stop believing on what you been taught and not the truth. In the book Isaiah, he said that the lord knows who you are by the hair on you head. Today we called it DNA. He also talk about the vast rivers in the oceans,(remember, the only sea water known in those day was the metiteranean) help control the rain to water the crops, today we call it Ocean currents. He also said the color of the earth from the heavens is blue. We only saw this in the 1950's. With all these sayings, how is this in the book. One last saying, Isaiah also said that one day that the lord's glory will be reveal in the ancient altars of Egypt. The pyramids?????????
I disagree that the Bible can be considered scientific. The main difference between science and religion is that science is constantly updated with the introduction of new data. I have a real problem with applying modern scenarios to ancient literature - it is as if you are trying to retrieve information from literature that did not foresee that the information you need would be needed.

Honest, public, legally recognized homosexual lifestyles are new - SOCIETY has not allowed it before now, but SOCIETY is gradually changing to acknowledge and accept it. How could the people who wrote the Bible have known this? They didn't. They couldn't predict that we would be in the midst of this "battle" and so a few obscure references towards men and men are the only material the Bible has to work with. No wonder it can be interpreted differently.

Do you think that the fulfilled predictions of the Bible could be an example of the "Nostradamus Effect" where people make connections between prophecies and events through their OWN rationalization when a true connection may or may not exist?

“A JOURNEY OF A THOUSAND MILES”

Since: Aug 08

MUST BEGIN WITH A SINGLE STEP!

#193 Jul 17, 2013
killedjoe wrote:
<quoted text> Big time wrong, It is a science book and a history book which people use the book to look for ancient cities. Your problem is your afraid to prove me wrong, by reading the book. Your afraid to find out the truth we are not alone. Say the Our Father. When you get to the part "thy kingdom come, thy will be done, ON EARTH HAS IT IS IN HEAVEN. This is the answer to the question, are we alone in the universe? Our DNA prove that we are difference. This is what has evolutionist piss. Evolution is proven with some living creature, but mankind DNA is alone. Not even from Neantheral man.
We aren't alone......but that has nothing to do with the bible being anything but a mythical story book at best......but your theory is a bit hilarious and there is no evidence to support your theory!!!

“A JOURNEY OF A THOUSAND MILES”

Since: Aug 08

MUST BEGIN WITH A SINGLE STEP!

#194 Jul 17, 2013
Awesome_Steve_Monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
"The words "Jesus Christ, Christianity, Bible, Creator, Divine, and God" are never mentioned in the Constitution-- not even once."
Two points for you NorCal!
:-)

“A JOURNEY OF A THOUSAND MILES”

Since: Aug 08

MUST BEGIN WITH A SINGLE STEP!

#195 Jul 17, 2013
Awesome_Steve_Monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
OK - now we are in new territory - you are a Christian, but you accept the Bible as a man-written guideline. This would explain any contradictions within the Bible - men are fallible and able to miscommunicate their ideas - they are subject to environmental influences and so their literature is subjective to human err. I agree completely.
This is not the attitude of many of the posters in this forum - they study every word of the Bible and consider them all holy and none should be disregarded. When I have pointed out some contradictions, the point was made that these are different books and the context of the writings should be taken into consideration - you mentioned that the NT was directed towards Isrealites - it was explained to me that Leviticus was directed towards the Levites and so does not apply to everyone. Are you saying that the NT does not apply to us?
I can easily disregard the Bible since I do not believe the teachings - I consider them to be fiction. What IS your relationship with the Bible and how is it used within your Christian religion?
First off......not a Christian.......not anywhere close.......more spiritual in my beliefs:-)

I believe that the Old Testament does not necessarily apply to anyone who lives today......and I believe that people cherry pick what verses and chapters they opt to follow because even a devote Christian can not possibly claim that they follow every chapter and verse even in the New Testament.........so, if they are not willing to abide by the bible in it's entirety......what makes them think they can dictate how others should believe or follow that which they don't?

Since: Jul 12

Welch, WV

#196 Jul 17, 2013
MarkEden wrote:
have a bad day at walmart honey?
No, MarkEden, quite the opposite - I am having a terrific day - we have introduced some new ideas to this thread, did you read them?

I will go ahead and indulge your reference by explaining that I am not at all a fan of WalMart. I DO work at a grocery store but I am proud that I work for a private, family-owned company that has been in business for over 100 years. I fear the day that WalMart comes to town and destroys it. I "preach" against WalMart to our customers at least weekly. Some people blame our company for steadily rising prices - one way to handle these rising costs is to take advantage of WalMart's low, low prices that they can offer since they are using the Chinese labor force to produce products that under-price all American small businesses. Do not shop at WalMart, MarkEden - honest American small businesses need your business more that WalMart does.

I am also very happy and excited that we have some new posters on this thread - join in, MarkEden - your opinion is as valid as anyone's.
killedjoe

White Plains, NY

#197 Jul 17, 2013
Awesome_Steve_Monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
I disagree that the Bible can be considered scientific. The main difference between science and religion is that science is constantly updated with the introduction of new data. I have a real problem with applying modern scenarios to ancient literature - it is as if you are trying to retrieve information from literature that did not foresee that the information you need would be needed.
Honest, public, legally recognized homosexual lifestyles are new - SOCIETY has not allowed it before now, but SOCIETY is gradually changing to acknowledge and accept it. How could the people who wrote the Bible have known this? They didn't. They couldn't predict that we would be in the midst of this "battle" and so a few obscure references towards men and men are the only material the Bible has to work with. No wonder it can be interpreted differently.
Do you think that the fulfilled predictions of the Bible could be an example of the "Nostradamus Effect" where people make connections between prophecies and events through their OWN rationalization when a true connection may or may not exist?
The problem is that you been brain wash to believe that religion and science cannot mix. Wrong. How did religion come about. To explain things that they could not understand. This is what religion is. People don't see the accurate of what the bible say and how science are coming together. Religion and science are one and the same. This does not mean the a Supreme being does not exist. Thru science, is it coming to point that the supreme being will be known. Isn't this is what the book talk about. The glory of the lord will rein down upon us all. And what is "glory". Can you come back and answer this question. Nostradamus and all that is nothing but big time B S. Why, cause people don't really know what the book say. People who claim to be prophets and make a prediction, and it does not come about, if you read the book you know the answer to this question. But folks only believe what they been taught and then stop believing. Remember, not even the angels in heaven know the time and place when the horns blows. Only the Father. The earth and mankind will be around a long time to come. We are not here to destroy ourselves nor the planet. The book says this also. We say that Jesus is the only son of God. Go read Job. Satan walk in on a meeting with all the "true sons of God" What!!!!!!!! Satan walking in on a meeting has God talking to the "true Sons of God".

Since: Jul 12

Welch, WV

#198 Jul 17, 2013
NorCal Native wrote:
<quoted text>
First off......not a Christian.......not anywhere close.......more spiritual in my beliefs:-)
I believe that the Old Testament does not necessarily apply to anyone who lives today......and I believe that people cherry pick what verses and chapters they opt to follow because even a devote Christian can not possibly claim that they follow every chapter and verse even in the New Testament.........so, if they are not willing to abide by the bible in it's entirety......what makes them think they can dictate how others should believe or follow that which they don't?
OK, my bad - hmm, ARE there denominations of Christianity that support homosexuality? I do not argue about what the Bible says because these folks are quite the authority - until I have read, studied, and interpreted it myself - I will trust what other people SAY the Bible says. The interpretations are varied, so I trust those to be honest opinions by honest Christians, able to be varied.

I will agree that sometimes Christians pick and choose what Bible verses are important and what social issues are in conflict with the Bible. Many passionate Christian activists focus on certain issues while ignoring others - but the Bible covers so much ground - I'd say it is in their best interest to focus on what they find most important or disturbing. I truly believe that the Bible is not completely consistent, so I encourage Christians to apply logic to their views so that THEY are consistent and not blindly repeating what has been taught to them.
killedjoe

White Plains, NY

#199 Jul 17, 2013
NorCal Native wrote:
<quoted text>
:-)
Wrong. Creator is mention in the Declaration. We are endown by our creator with certain enalienable right, among these are life, liberty, and the pursue of happiness. These are the same laws that what the book calls the Laws of Moses. If you read the book you should of know this. Therefore the basic laws of the constitution is base on the reason why we Declared to the world our reason to rebel against the crown. HA HA HA. I am going out on a limb. You watch CNBC and MSNBC cable network news. They are very good at twisting words around. Most signer of the Declaration and the Constitution were Freemaion. Again, research what they are suppose to believe.
killedjoe

White Plains, NY

#200 Jul 17, 2013
killedjoe wrote:
<quoted text> The problem is that you been brain wash to believe that religion and science cannot mix. Wrong. How did religion come about. To explain things that they could not understand. This is what religion is. People don't see the accurate of what the bible say and how science are coming together. Religion and science are one and the same. This does not mean the a Supreme being does not exist. Thru science, is it coming to point that the supreme being will be known. Isn't this is what the book talk about. The glory of the lord will rein down upon us all. And what is "glory". Can you come back and answer this question. Nostradamus and all that is nothing but big time B S. Why, cause people don't really know what the book say. People who claim to be prophets and make a prediction, and it does not come about, if you read the book you know the answer to this question. But folks only believe what they been taught and then stop believing. Remember, not even the angels in heaven know the time and place when the horns blows. Only the Father. The earth and mankind will be around a long time to come. We are not here to destroy ourselves nor the planet. The book says this also. We say that Jesus is the only son of God. Go read Job. Satan walk in on a meeting with all the "true sons of God" What!!!!!!!! Satan walking in on a meeting has God talking to the "true Sons of God".
I am not asking you what this says, but I am asking you if you can explain it. E=MC2

“A JOURNEY OF A THOUSAND MILES”

Since: Aug 08

MUST BEGIN WITH A SINGLE STEP!

#202 Jul 17, 2013
Awesome_Steve_Monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
OK, my bad - hmm, ARE there denominations of Christianity that support homosexuality? I do not argue about what the Bible says because these folks are quite the authority - until I have read, studied, and interpreted it myself - I will trust what other people SAY the Bible says. The interpretations are varied, so I trust those to be honest opinions by honest Christians, able to be varied.
I will agree that sometimes Christians pick and choose what Bible verses are important and what social issues are in conflict with the Bible. Many passionate Christian activists focus on certain issues while ignoring others - but the Bible covers so much ground - I'd say it is in their best interest to focus on what they find most important or disturbing. I truly believe that the Bible is not completely consistent, so I encourage Christians to apply logic to their views so that THEY are consistent and not blindly repeating what has been taught to them.
There are....and again, I have no issue with folks interpreting the bible or scripture as they see fit, HOWEVER.....they are not the authority on scripture in my opinion and everyone is entitled to believe what they feel is best for them.......frankly, I don't tell others how to believe and I get tired of them telling me that how I believe is wrong and just because of who I am that I'm going to some eternal hell spot......my response back to them is that I do not fear God, nor am I concern for whatever final judgment God hands down to me......He alone knows everything about me.....and He alone will judge me based on what He knows....not what others feel or think!!!

One should take time to read the Gospels according to Thomas, Peter, Judas and Mary Magdalene, also look at the Book of Enoch and the Book of Jasher......all of these give insight in to various aspects of the lives who supposedly lived in biblical times!!!

“A JOURNEY OF A THOUSAND MILES”

Since: Aug 08

MUST BEGIN WITH A SINGLE STEP!

#203 Jul 17, 2013
killedjoe wrote:
<quoted text> Wrong. Creator is mention in the Declaration. We are endown by our creator with certain enalienable right, among these are life, liberty, and the pursue of happiness. These are the same laws that what the book calls the Laws of Moses. If you read the book you should of know this. Therefore the basic laws of the constitution is base on the reason why we Declared to the world our reason to rebel against the crown. HA HA HA. I am going out on a limb. You watch CNBC and MSNBC cable network news. They are very good at twisting words around. Most signer of the Declaration and the Constitution were Freemaion. Again, research what they are suppose to believe.
The Declaration of Independence does mention a Creator, but this is not a governing document by law.....The Constitution is and NO WHERE is God, Jesus or any other reference to a higher power mentioned in that Document that governs our Country!!!

Actually our words in the Constitution have NOTHING to do with the Book of Moses......maybe you should learn a bit about the men who wrote the Constitution and why they were against a National Religion!!!

Since: Jul 12

Welch, WV

#204 Jul 17, 2013
killedjoe wrote:
<quoted text> The problem is that you been brain wash to believe that religion and science cannot mix. Wrong. How did religion come about. To explain things that they could not understand. This is what religion is. People don't see the accurate of what the bible say and how science are coming together. Religion and science are one and the same. This does not mean the a Supreme being does not exist. Thru science, is it coming to point that the supreme being will be known. Isn't this is what the book talk about. The glory of the lord will rein down upon us all. And what is "glory". Can you come back and answer this question. Nostradamus and all that is nothing but big time B S. Why, cause people don't really know what the book say. People who claim to be prophets and make a prediction, and it does not come about, if you read the book you know the answer to this question. But folks only believe what they been taught and then stop believing. Remember, not even the angels in heaven know the time and place when the horns blows. Only the Father. The earth and mankind will be around a long time to come. We are not here to destroy ourselves nor the planet. The book says this also. We say that Jesus is the only son of God. Go read Job. Satan walk in on a meeting with all the "true sons of God" What!!!!!!!! Satan walking in on a meeting has God talking to the "true Sons of God".
I am seeing your point of view, but you are mistaken about my personal brain-washing. In my case, I was taught that the Bible and Christianity were the ultimate TRUTH only to realize later in life that religion is based on BELIEF and one religion is as "true" as the next. That's why religious beliefs are a choice.

Your story from Job supports my theory that the Bible contradicts itself - later, we are assured that Jesus is "God's only son" - how can both be true?

I agree that science and religion are not always in conflict, but there is a great difference between the two. Christianity claims to have stated the "truth" and is firm to hold tightly to these teachings regardless of the situation. Science is constantly disregarded and replaced with new Science - it is modern and reflects all that we know NOW. Many "scientific facts" have been debunked and replaced with more accurate "facts", which can be debunked again and again - science is an on-going process. Religion claims to already know everything - I find that to be an outrageous claim.

You know that religion has existed much longer than Christianity and that religion is a way to explain things that people do not or cannot understand. We refer to "old religions" as myth - my opinion is that modern religion is also myth - an outdated myth that no longer properly serves the society and so I suggest that Christianity is in decline. I suspect that this has happened naturally, but many blame the Devil.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#205 Jul 17, 2013
Awesome_Steve_Monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
"The words "Jesus Christ, Christianity, Bible, Creator, Divine, and God" are never mentioned in the Constitution-- not even once."
Two points for you NorCal!
I know I am wasting my time on these atheism threads and this will be my last message.

http://www.nccs.net/articles/ril16.html

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