Is baptism essential to salvation

Is baptism essential to salvation

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The Great Commission

Martinsville, VA

#1 Nov 24, 2010
Faith and repentance are conceded by all Protestant sects, to be essential to the salvation of all who come within the provisions of the proclamation.

We and they agree that "saved" or "damned" in the proclamation applies to those, and those only, who have an opportunity to hear the Gospel, and who, in years and in reason, have the ability to understand it--to accept or reject it.

The issue between them and us in the preaching of the conditions of pardon, as we respectively understand the Savior to command and to promise, is confined to the question, "Is baptism essential to salvation?"

When was the commission given? Not in the lifetime of the Savior upon the earth, when he was a suffering, sorrowing sojourner among the sons of men; not in the valedictory address to his Disciples just before "his hour had come;" not amid the agonies of the Cross; but, after his death; after his resurrection; after he had been with the Apostles for forty days, "speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God," and "opening their understanding that they might understand the Scriptures,"--after all this, was the commission given. Jesus said to them: "Go into all the world and preach the Gospel to every creature. He that believes and is baptized shall be saved; he that believeth not shall be damned."

What has just been shown is the last law of pardon Jesus gave, and also the first one He ever gave as Lord of all, under the New Testament dispensation. Before His resurrection, the Savior Himself tells us that He spoke and acted in obedience to the command of his Father.

"Lo, I come to do thy will," was his valedictory in leaving the heavens to come to earth; and "Know you not that I must be about my Father's business," is his first recorded declaration on the earth.

Now the Crucified One is crowned King, clothed with supreme power, and the scepter of authority is passed over into his hand.
Now, He makes laws in His own right as Sovereign of the heaven and the earth. The first exercise of authority under his reign as absolute monarch, was to enact the conditional amnesty above mentioned, and to commission the apostles to proclaim it to every creature, "among all nations, even unto the end of the world."
This law, then, both the first and the last on the subject, is binding, in all its provisions, and as long as the Christian dispensation shall last.

…to be continued
Barnsweb

Newman, CA

#2 Nov 24, 2010
Peter also said the issue is founded on what Moses had told them years earlier, that whoever will not hear whatsoever that Prophet shall tell them shall be cut off from the brethren.(Acts 3:22,23; Deu. 7:8-10), and we know Jesus taught that He came to fulfill the Scriptures. Jesus certainly taught far more than love of God and love of brother and neighbor and enemy - there is far more to His teachings than love, such as justice, truth, mercy, faithfulness, obedience, and grace - to mention a few.

Even the Church called 'Disciples of Christ' fell horribly short of the great commissions teachings about discipleship and faithfulness to whatever Jesus told us to hear and do. Baptism is but a fraction, but a foundational point of obedience.

So if 'we', as Christians, can't even agree that Jesus said to be baptized, Peter declared it to be part of the very promise of God for the reasons he gave (forgiveness of sin and gift of the Holy Spirit that Jesus promised and John foretold) then it would speak volumes about Christian history being focused on spitting hairs on when God saves someone instead of being the people Jesus declared would seek to do the will of God.

And while we are facing this issue and the foundational issue of the will and commandments of God to all men - then 'we' have to also face that fourth commandment that so many have turned their back on as much as they have believing the promise of God and the sureness and eternal nature of the ten commandments being the most basic of all standards God can accept - Christians are called to a higher level that abides in the Son, and He in them. Jesus had the authority to change the day and He didn't, and those who think the apostles changed the day are delusional, misinformed, and ignorant of the word of God.

Sorry, but it's true. Don't let Ellen White keep you from seeing the truth. It's in plain sight!
Barnsweb

Newman, CA

#3 Nov 24, 2010
Jesus did not abolish the Sabbath or teach against it. Look into the gospel accounts again. He taught that the contemporary Jews had added restrictions to the law that were not intended and that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath. Search it out and see for yourself. As God said,'Hear Him.'
TGC

Douglasville, GA

#4 Nov 24, 2010
Barnsweb wrote:
Peter also said the issue is founded on what Moses had told them years earlier, that whoever will not hear whatsoever that Prophet shall tell them shall be cut off from the brethren.(Acts 3:22,23; Deu. 7:8-10), and we know Jesus taught that He came to fulfill the Scriptures. Jesus certainly taught far more than love of God and love of brother and neighbor and enemy - there is far more to His teachings than love, such as justice, truth, mercy, faithfulness, obedience, and grace - to mention a few.
Even the Church called 'Disciples of Christ' fell horribly short of the great commissions teachings about discipleship and faithfulness to whatever Jesus told us to hear and do. Baptism is but a fraction, but a foundational point of obedience.
So if 'we', as Christians, can't even agree that Jesus said to be baptized, Peter declared it to be part of the very promise of God for the reasons he gave (forgiveness of sin and gift of the Holy Spirit that Jesus promised and John foretold) then it would speak volumes about Christian history being focused on spitting hairs on when God saves someone instead of being the people Jesus declared would seek to do the will of God.
And while we are facing this issue and the foundational issue of the will and commandments of God to all men - then 'we' have to also face that fourth commandment that so many have turned their back on as much as they have believing the promise of God and the sureness and eternal nature of the ten commandments being the most basic of all standards God can accept - Christians are called to a higher level that abides in the Son, and He in them. Jesus had the authority to change the day and He didn't, and those who think the apostles changed the day are delusional, misinformed, and ignorant of the word of God.
Sorry, but it's true. Don't let Ellen White keep you from seeing the truth. It's in plain sight!
Ellen White? Sir, I am one who contends for the church of Christ, not Ellen White nor any other "religious" sect. You have confessed that you rarely attend worship; and when you do, you said it was with various denominations, even LDS. You also confess you left the church of Christ, right? Now, from what I can tell, you line up with Oneness Pentecostals. Do they not teach they are "the one true church"
Barnsweb

Newman, CA

#5 Nov 24, 2010
Ellen White was the 'founding prophetess' of the Seventh Day Adventists, if you didn't know. I'm not against the Church of Christ, I just can't hold full fellowship with those who condemn others when neither God or Jesus Christ do or add to or take away from some very basic doctrines and commandments of God.

Oneness Pentecostals? Never been to one of those.

I believe in Jesus Christ and the imperishable words of eternal life He gave that are recorded from Matthew through Revelation.

http://www.onediscipletoanother.org

I think LDS know more about the gospel of Jesus Christ in the daily life applications and interactions with fellow church members than the Church of Christ has even dreamed to attain.

Some of their added doctrines are certainly not helpful, but neither is false condemnation of others either.

Maybe we still do need prophets and apostles as there is no unity of the Church to date?:-) Especially in the fellowships of the Church of Christ and Baptists.
The Answer

Quinlan, TX

#6 Nov 25, 2010
The answer is YES, baptism (immersion in water) is essential for salvation according to(Acts 2;38 ; 8:38 ; 22:16).

The Lord said baptism (imersion in water) is a part of the gospel (Mark 16:15,16).

One must obey the gospel to be saved (become a servant of righteousness) and those who refuse will be punished by the Lord (2Thess.1:7-9)(Rom.6:16-18).

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
The Answer

Quinlan, TX

#7 Nov 25, 2010
...Baptism doth now save us...(1Peter 3:21)

whybaptism.org
TGC

Douglasville, GA

#8 Nov 25, 2010
Barnsweb wrote:
Ellen White was the 'founding prophetess' of the Seventh Day Adventists, if you didn't know. I'm not against the Church of Christ, I just can't hold full fellowship with those who condemn others when neither God or Jesus Christ do or add to or take away from some very basic doctrines and commandments of God.
Oneness Pentecostals? Never been to one of those.
I believe in Jesus Christ and the imperishable words of eternal life He gave that are recorded from Matthew through Revelation.
http://www.onediscipletoanother.org
I think LDS know more about the gospel of Jesus Christ in the daily life applications and interactions with fellow church members than the Church of Christ has even dreamed to attain.
Some of their added doctrines are certainly not helpful, but neither is false condemnation of others either.
Maybe we still do need prophets and apostles as there is no unity of the Church to date?:-) Especially in the fellowships of the Church of Christ and Baptists.
I am well aware who Ellen White is, thanks. So, are you saying there isnt a Church today teaching truth?
Barnsweb

Newman, CA

#9 Nov 26, 2010
Half truths, yes, the gospel Jesus preached? No.
Barnsweb

Newman, CA

#10 Nov 26, 2010
For instance, the Church of Christ recognizes Acts 2:38,39 as it relates to the commission of Jesus Christ, but they never graduated to understand Acts 3:22,23 is equally important.
Randy

Douglasville, GA

#11 Feb 21, 2011
Barnsweb wrote:
For instance, the Church of Christ recognizes Acts 2:38,39 as it relates to the commission of Jesus Christ, but they never graduated to understand Acts 3:22,23 is equally important.
I don't understand your point, please explain.

Randy
2-21-11
8:55
Barnsweb

Newman, CA

#12 Feb 21, 2011
Randy wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't understand your point, please explain.
Randy
2-21-11
8:55
Going back to the sermon on the mount, Jesus clearly taught that the teachings in that sermon are foundational and established the principle to be not only hearers of His words, but doers of what He said. Fast forward past His teachings in Matthew to the great commission, Jesus continues making the point of hearing and doing what He had taught, those words that He identified in John 15 - 17 that the disciples had received from Him. The great commission is about discipleship before baptism, baptism because He said so, and then observance of His words - specifically commandments. Jesus is our Teacher if we are His disciples.

So shortly after the opening sermon of Acts, we find Peter teaching the next important principle that was prophesied by Moses and saying Jesus is that Prophet we are to hear, and this fits squarely with His great commission and all the way back to His opening sermon. Not to mention that practically the only thing we have recorded as said by His mother: Do whatever He tells you to do, or the Father in heaven; 'Hear Him'.

Any doctrine that is not centered in the teachings of Jesus from Matthew through Revelation is not Christian doctrine.

But many teach the doctrines of men, and because of this their worship is in vain. So the true doctrine is the commandments, precepts, promises and prophecies of Jesus - to be expounded upon by what the Apostles said, but centered on what Jesus absolutely taught.

If we take this approach at true doctrine, we are faithful. If we don't, we teach the doctrines of men.

This is why John said that unless someone brings the teaching of keeping the doctrine of Jesus Christ, they are not to be considered Christians.

Thousands preach a gospel in the name of Jesus that is no where near to what Jesus actually preached:

Repentance to do the will of God by abiding in the commandments of God, not men, and abiding in the words of the Father that He was sent to give.

As the Lord said Himself,'Why do you call Me 'Lord', and not do as I say?' And in another place the parable of the king who demanded those be brought before him to be slain who would not have him rule over them.

To 'invite' Jesus into your heart and 'trust' His work for your salvation - without doing the will of the Father as He said, is a vain religion and blasphemy against the words of the Lord and the prophets who foretold of Him.

Jesus defined love for Him as keeping His words.... not just 'trust' or 'grace alone' or 'faith alone'.

http://www.onediscipletoanother.org

He said His 'mother, brother and sister' are those who seek to do the will of God by learning from and of Him. THAT is what being a Christian is really about. It is not a claim, it is not merely faith - it is a life long process of discipleship and faithfulness in growing to become more like Him every day.
Barnsweb

Newman, CA

#13 Feb 21, 2011
I've been around the Church of Christ all my life - grandfather, father and brothers who are preachers, and I know for a fact that things are dropped at baptism and it is not Church of Christ doctrine to be a 'disciple of Christ', as that is another Church - but they don't practice it either.

I challenge anyone to do what I did - It was the most liberating thing I've done in my life:

Start in Matthew and go through Revelation noting each and every thing recorded as said by Jesus and note each one that should be taken as a commandment in light of the principle that we are to be doers of what He taught.

See if you only come up with 2. There are over 200 in Matthew alone - not to mention the other books of the NT!!!
Johnny Robertson

Fredericksburg, VA

#14 Feb 21, 2011
i missed your point i guess
Barnsweb

Newman, CA

#15 Feb 22, 2011
The stated goal of the Church of Christ is this: To return to the faith of the first century Christians; to put aside all man made doctrine and get back to Christianity as it was first practiced before the corruption of the doctrines of men and satan.

The great commission is all about discipleship to the Lord Jesus Christ. And discipleship at it's root is about being a student. So if we are students of the Lord, we have to figuratively sit at His feet, just as those before us in the first century did - that we hear whatever He had to say, and then not just hear, but do - put those teachings into action in our hearts and minds and life to the end that we be transformed towards being like Him and the renewal of the mind and heart and spirit as His words (full of grace, truth and spirit) and the Holy Spirit (the real power of grace that enables us to obey from the heart).

How far do we get in being like Him? That depends on how long we live and how faithful we are and how serious we are as His students (disciples).

Being a Christian (disciple of Jesus Christ indeed) is to know what He taught is the doctrine of the Father.

Too often the passage/teaching is cut in half which Jesus clearly outlines where the 'truth that sets you free' is gained. It is through being disciples in deed. If you check out the opening page of my web site I think you'll see what I'm talking about and specific verses.

I'm forever amused at those who call the Church of Christ, or any other conservative Church for that matter, to be 'legalist'. Legalism is a theological term that was coined about 1830-1840. All who point their fingers at others and call them legalists are showing solidarity to their own religious tradition. Condemnation of other human beings is, in fact, acting as Satan's 'little helper.' Where did Christians learn this ministry of condemnation? "For God sent not His Son into the world to dondemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.'(John 3:17 Judge not, and you shall not be judged; condemn not, and you shall not be condemned; forgive, and you shall be forgiven.'(Luke 6:37. Those who label people as legalists are simply asking for judgment to fall on their heads!(see also Romans 14:13; James 4:10-12; 5:8-11; and Isaiah 58:9)
Barnsweb

Newman, CA

#16 Feb 22, 2011
And is baptism necessary? It's in the very center of the great commission given by the Lord and spelled out further by the promise of God that Peter preached at Pentecost, to be followed by abiding in whatever Jesus taught, preached and commanded as the doctrine of God. Jesus said we don't love Him if we don't keep His words.

Baptism is only necessary for true believers who hear and do whatever Jesus commanded.

Those who reject His words don't keep them, and in fact cannot do them.
Randy

Martinsville, VA

#17 Apr 7, 2011
I really want a good explanation why baptism isn’t part of Gods plan to provide remission of sins. Citing other verses that fail to mention baptism doesn’t prove anything. If a sinner { such as me } were to ask you how can I be forgiven, would you quote John 3:16 only?

Just last week, I was turning the channels and ran across “Crosspoint” a Church at Bassett High who air their services on a local channel…the preacher made up a prayer and ask anyone sitting in the assembly who was lost to pray the prayer he was saying. Afterwards, he ask for a show of hands of those who prayed his prayer. Oh, and he said,“I don’t want to embarrass you, just raise your hand and put it back down” What! Come on people! This is nothing close to Bible. I can’t imagine Peter saying,“pray this prayer that I am going to make up, then quietly raise your hand and put it back down, I don’t want you to be embarrassed to be a follower of Jesus”…..Peter done the opposite. Did Peter make up the commands he gave forth, or did they come from Jesus? If what he commanded was true, did he not say it was true for all nations? This alone kills any idea that one can walk an isle and pray some made up prayer for remission. What if someone that day told Peter,“I rather not follow your command, I think I will make up a prayer and get forgiveness that way, besides I am embarrassed for people to know I am a follower of Jesus” Peter would not accepted that at all, yet I see this being preached in most all Churches. Those sinners at Crosspoint who raised their hands were buying a lie. They are no more forgiven than I am. The sad reality is they think they are ok.
MrT

Wytheville, VA

#18 Apr 7, 2011
The point of this whole question is that you understand that your price was paid by Christ through his blood on the cross 2,000 plus years ago and that apart from him you have no way to pay it yourself. Since you were not there, you accept his gift, given through His grace, through faith. There is no way to go back 2,000 years and accept him, so it has to be through faith. In baptism you identify publicly your belief in salvation through faith and accept the gift of his blood from the cross. I agree it is not raising your hand or saying a prayer and it shows that you are not ashamed of Christ. In baptism you "put on Christ" and it goes in depth in Clossians Chapter 2 comparing it to circumcision done by Christ - not man. Yes, you have to be baptized. The thing people think about cofC is that you think the water is literally Christ's blood and not a symbol using water. They also think you believe the sin debt is paid in the baptistry rather than at the cross.
Randy

Lynchburg, VA

#19 Apr 7, 2011
MrT wrote:
The thing people think about cofC is that you think the water is literally Christ's blood and not a symbol using water. They also think you believe the sin debt is paid in the baptistry rather than at the cross.
I have corresponded with church of Christ Evangelist from the East Coast to the West Coast,have read books, articles, ordered sermons, and never have I once heard anyone state they they believe the water is literally Jesus' blood. Never have I heard them state the sin dept is paid in the baptistery either.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#20 Apr 7, 2011
MrT wrote:
The point of this whole question is that you understand that your price was paid by Christ through his blood on the cross 2,000 plus years ago and that apart from him you have no way to pay it yourself. Since you were not there, you accept his gift, given through His grace, through faith. There is no way to go back 2,000 years and accept him, so it has to be through faith. In baptism you identify publicly your belief in salvation through faith and accept the gift of his blood from the cross. I agree it is not raising your hand or saying a prayer and it shows that you are not ashamed of Christ. In baptism you "put on Christ" and it goes in depth in Clossians Chapter 2 comparing it to circumcision done by Christ - not man. Yes, you have to be baptized. The thing people think about cofC is that you think the water is literally Christ's blood and not a symbol using water. They also think you believe the sin debt is paid in the baptistry rather than at the cross.
It's the teaching that water is the contact point to touch the blood of Christ that confuses the issue. No scripture for that. Every sound church I know teaches and practices water baptism. I teach people that if you really trust Jesus sacrifice, there is seldom a reason not to be water baptized. There are battlefield conversions,thief on the cross and other situations that might prohibit water baptism for a short time. The coc sends all those people to hell. God's grace is not bound by law keeping or the rules of men.

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