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41 - 60 of 70 Comments Last updated Jul 13, 2013
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

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#41
Jul 10, 2013
 
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Isn't it fun to watch Protestants Sola Scripturize each other.
And they all think the HS speaks to them
Do you abide in the word of the Lord?

What do you think of the passage from John about what testifies in heaven and what testifies in the earth?
Dave P

Nicholasville, KY

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#42
Jul 11, 2013
 
26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.

I suppose you do know the context of this and what this meant for the captives?

I'm more inclined to see the passage as very useful companion with the Jeremiah 31:31 passage. Doesn't the NT say the Spirit didn't come to the people until Pentecost? And if you'd like to share what you think it meant to the captives...speak on!

*Indeed, these prophecies were ultimately about the coming of the Spirit- the ONLY way any of us can "keep the law" or do them. And as Bobby mentioned, being under the law of Christ, He told us what that was- to love God with all our being, and love our neighbors as ourselves. Even Paul says that if we do that, we can fulfill the law, because love does no harm to our neighbor. Without the Spirit-impossible.

Also notice from the Ezekiel passage WHY God did this: "I do not do this for your sake, O house of Israel, but for My holy name's sake, which you have profaned among the nations wherever you went. And I will sanctify My great name, which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst; and the nations SHALL KNOW THAT I AM THE LORD, says the Lord God, when I am hallowed in you before their eyes."

Is it possible the US is faltering because we haven't hallowed God in the people's eyes?

Since: May 10

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#43
Jul 11, 2013
 
Dave P wrote:
26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.
I suppose you do know the context of this and what this meant for the captives?
I'm more inclined to see the passage as very useful companion with the Jeremiah 31:31 passage. Doesn't the NT say the Spirit didn't come to the people until Pentecost? And if you'd like to share what you think it meant to the captives...speak on!
*Indeed, these prophecies were ultimately about the coming of the Spirit- the ONLY way any of us can "keep the law" or do them. And as Bobby mentioned, being under the law of Christ, He told us what that was- to love God with all our being, and love our neighbors as ourselves. Even Paul says that if we do that, we can fulfill the law, because love does no harm to our neighbor. Without the Spirit-impossible.
Also notice from the Ezekiel passage WHY God did this: "I do not do this for your sake, O house of Israel, but for My holy name's sake, which you have profaned among the nations wherever you went. And I will sanctify My great name, which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst; and the nations SHALL KNOW THAT I AM THE LORD, says the Lord God, when I am hallowed in you before their eyes."
Is it possible the US is faltering because we haven't hallowed God in the people's eyes?
I think the spirit has been in man since his birth. Then the Lord said,“My Spirit shall not abide in[a] man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.”
The OT is full of people having the Spirit in different manifestations and so to say it only came at Pentecost may not be fully accurate. The Spirit moved among the people and Moses and many others were filled with the spirit. David and others are said to have the spirit.

The Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life. Job

Cast me not away from your presence, and take not your Holy Spirit from me. Psalm

18 Then the glory of the Lord went out from the threshold of the house, and stood over the cherubim.

The spirit was also through a fixture for the people of Israel whether in the wilderness or after that as seen by the prophets. So I conclude the Spirit has always been and will always be whether or not man desires the spirit is vital to the way he functions. Now all this said I have no idea how all this works but trust in the Spirit.

This context was talking to those fixing to be captives and also to a time when they would return, a reminant so it would be.
Dave P

Nicholasville, KY

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#44
Jul 11, 2013
 
All men have the Spirit of God in them? Disagree.
Dave P

Nicholasville, KY

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#45
Jul 11, 2013
 
The Spirit has always been in the earth and active among certain persons. We can see from scripture that He did not indwell every Israelite; only certain people had that distinction. He was among the people, but not in them.

The new covenant is different. He is now in all of us who are Christians.

Since: May 10

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#46
Jul 11, 2013
 
Dave P wrote:
All men have the Spirit of God in them? Disagree.
YOu dont think a baby has the spirit of God in them?
Spirit

Chesapeake, VA

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#47
Jul 11, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

JustChristian wrote:
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I know sometimes we forget that we are not sure Paul was the author of Hebrews. I doubt he was. Maybe nameless for those who discount Pauls apostleship.
Paul was not the author of any book of the Bible. Think about this.
Spirit

Chesapeake, VA

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#48
Jul 11, 2013
 
Spirit wrote:
<quoted text>Paul was not the author of any book of the Bible. Think about this.
Why was I being judged as being "nuts"?
Dave P

Nicholasville, KY

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#49
Jul 11, 2013
 
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
YOu dont think a baby has the spirit of God in them?
God gives His Spirit to those who obey Him, Acts 5:32. The Spirit is the seal of salvation, the sign of the covenant. We simply have no scripture that explicitly says that children have the Holy Spirit. We do have scripture that states they don't know right and wrong; that they may well be alive before the law comes and "kills them". I do believe children are innocent, not guilty of any sin until old enough to know. But to say that they have the Spirit- need proof.
Dave P

Nicholasville, KY

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#50
Jul 11, 2013
 
Anyone notice how much effort we spend debating subjects that have to do with what is to go on ONE DAY A WEEK? Sabbath or Lord's day? Wine or juice? Acapella or instrumental?

Folks, is the everyday living part so "easy" for us that we have to argue about the specifics of the "one day"? I am learning more that God is trying to reveal Himself to us every day, so we can actually know Him. If we become disciples, get to know Him, this one day-which day-specifics just might not be so divisive as it is now.
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

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#51
Jul 12, 2013
 
Well, I was raised in a Church that taught Sunday worship that condemned those who believed the Sabbath is to be holy because God said so. In a practical sense, what difference does it make? If we select a day to worship on, one day should be as easy as another. So why condemn those who choose the day that God set aside from the beginning?

Why would one set of believers condemn another for doing what could well be right?

As He said, His word is discerning and capable to divide and gets deeply into our hearts and exposes our true motives.
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

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#52
Jul 12, 2013
 
CoC formulations all center with the passage that 'He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved.' They think that is the end all, but the fact is also that we believe what He said is true and how we should live. He said it's about our works, not only His. It's about what we do with what He has given for all who receive Him and His words from the Father. How can we say we believe Him and then not do as He said?! If He condemned something, how can we accept it if we believe Him?

Stuff like that...

I pray the CoC will come to believe Acts 3:22,23 as much as they do Acts 2:38,39. Both passages look to be equally important if we want to be saved and believe the Scripture is truth.
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

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#53
Jul 12, 2013
 
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
I think the spirit has been in man since his birth. Then the Lord said,“My Spirit shall not abide in[a] man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.”
The OT is full of people having the Spirit in different manifestations and so to say it only came at Pentecost may not be fully accurate. The Spirit moved among the people and Moses and many others were filled with the spirit. David and others are said to have the spirit.
The Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life. Job
Cast me not away from your presence, and take not your Holy Spirit from me. Psalm
18 Then the glory of the Lord went out from the threshold of the house, and stood over the cherubim.
The spirit was also through a fixture for the people of Israel whether in the wilderness or after that as seen by the prophets. So I conclude the Spirit has always been and will always be whether or not man desires the spirit is vital to the way he functions. Now all this said I have no idea how all this works but trust in the Spirit.
This context was talking to those fixing to be captives and also to a time when they would return, a reminant so it would be.
Isn't there a difference between the 'spirit' of a man that returns to God and the soul of a man? There is an element of life common to all men, but not all men live by the Spirit and obey God. It's one thing to be alive, another to be alive to God.
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

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#54
Jul 12, 2013
 
Btw, wasn't it that the 120 years was when God destroyed unrepentant mankind?
Dave P

Nicholasville, KY

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#55
Jul 12, 2013
 
Barnsweb wrote:
Well, I was raised in a Church that taught Sunday worship that condemned those who believed the Sabbath is to be holy because God said so. In a practical sense, what difference does it make? If we select a day to worship on, one day should be as easy as another. So why condemn those who choose the day that God set aside from the beginning?
Why would one set of believers condemn another for doing what could well be right?
As He said, His word is discerning and capable to divide and gets deeply into our hearts and exposes our true motives.
I agree very much in principle with this. I would add the reverse is also true- if many are convinced that the practice of Sunday assembling is acceptable and right, they also should not be condemned for that. SDA calls it the mark of the beast.

We should probably call it a day of assembly, since we worship the Lord everyday or should be.

I am in agreement that what was nailed to the cross was- the debt of sin; and the old ordinances. The priesthood, sacrifices, etc. The moral standard revealed in the law was not abolished. Jesus elevated those- He is the true and living Torah in that sense.

What else has changed is the fact that we now have His Spirit within us to give us a heart to keep His words from the heart; and we have a great High Priest who can sympathize, and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Thought- is the sabbath actually a part, an institution of the old order? After all, the Levites in Nehemiah 9:14 proclaimed that the sabbath was not made known to Israel until Sinai- the inauguration of the covenant. The patriarchs weren't sabbath keepers.
Dave P

Nicholasville, KY

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#56
Jul 12, 2013
 

Judged:

1

Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
Isn't there a difference between the 'spirit' of a man that returns to God and the soul of a man? There is an element of life common to all men, but not all men live by the Spirit and obey God. It's one thing to be alive, another to be alive to God.
Correct. Man is body, soul, and spirit. Just because we have all these things does not mean we have the indwelling Holy Spirit.
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

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#57
Jul 12, 2013
 
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree very much in principle with this. I would add the reverse is also true- if many are convinced that the practice of Sunday assembling is acceptable and right, they also should not be condemned for that. SDA calls it the mark of the beast.
We should probably call it a day of assembly, since we worship the Lord everyday or should be.
I am in agreement that what was nailed to the cross was- the debt of sin; and the old ordinances. The priesthood, sacrifices, etc. The moral standard revealed in the law was not abolished. Jesus elevated those- He is the true and living Torah in that sense.
What else has changed is the fact that we now have His Spirit within us to give us a heart to keep His words from the heart; and we have a great High Priest who can sympathize, and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Thought- is the sabbath actually a part, an institution of the old order? After all, the Levites in Nehemiah 9:14 proclaimed that the sabbath was not made known to Israel until Sinai- the inauguration of the covenant. The patriarchs weren't sabbath keepers.
There is a curious passage that says the Torah was given because of apostasy. Genesis 26:5 tells us Abraham had some knowledge before the Torah was given to Israel. I've read other ancient societies also regarded the seventh day separately, but that's sort of on the sidelines of the topic. The focal points for a Christian (disciple of Jesus) are:

1. He said the Sabbath was made for man - not Jews. Even in the OT is was to be kept by sojourners and servants in the land, and even by the animals. Even the land was to have a Sabbath rest every seven years.
2. That the Sabbath was set aside as separate by God at Creation.
3. Jesus affirmed the Sabbath with the clarification that it is lawful to do good works on the Sabbath - in defiance of the man made regulations put upon Sabbath being used against the very purpose/reasons that God instituted the day. When Jesus talked on the topic, He did say 'it is LAWFUL to do good on the Sabbath, which shows it is a matter of the law and commandment of God in the time He was on earth.
4. He warned of the flight of those in Jerusalem to not be in winter OR ON THE SABBATH, which He surely knew the future was that it would occur after His resurrection from the dead and ascension to heaven. So He supported keeping the Sabbath after the cross, thereby we can know it was NOT nailed to the cross.
5. Jesus claimed to be Lord of the Sabbath.

From what I've been able to learn so far, the Sabbath is a day we set aside to abide in the goodness and provision of God from the very creation, and especially the rest and provision we have in our Messiah, who said He is the Lord of the Sabbath.

Because of the above, and the judgments against Israel because of not keeping it, and that we as Christians are grafted into the true Israel of God - that we should think twice to regard the day.
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

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#58
Jul 12, 2013
 
Likely the fact is that Israel was largely idol worshipers when God lead them out of Israel, and because of Sunday worship in Egypt, God had to restore them to the knowledge of the day and the creation story and the righteousness of God that He created man to live by. No doubt God gave Israel the Sabbath in Exodus, but the Torah implies the day was set aside at creation.
Dave P

Nicholasville, KY

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#59
Jul 12, 2013
 
Good stuff. Discuss this a little later. Full plate today!
Biblos

Chesapeake, VA

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#60
Jul 12, 2013
 
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
I know sometimes we forget that we are not sure Paul was the author of Hebrews. I doubt he was. Maybe nameless for those who discount Pauls apostleship.
God was the 'Author' of hebrews,God breathed His inspired word into Poul thus causing Paul to write this book.

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