cali forni

United States

#405 May 23, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
It's a cop out when I answer your questions?
Is it a cop out when you only ask questions?
Hammer time. Hit that nail on its head did ya. All Just Christian is doing, is playing verbaige dodgeball. He isn't part of any dialogue; instead, he ducks in, ask a question or two, then he is gone. He contributes nothing to the conversation.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#406 May 23, 2013
Dave P wrote:
Because the use of the instrument in worship is contrary to the doctrine of Christ.(2 John 9).
*Dave P-instruments are nowhere in sight in this passage. Context-specifically written about those antichrists and deceivers coming into the world who did not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. The gnostics of those times, some still do so today. Using "the doctrine of Christ" in this manner can become a hammer that can be used against anyone who doesn't conform to our specific beliefs.
Because it causes divisions.(Romans 16:17).
*Dave P-read the passage cited. Dead objects don't cause divisions, people cause divisions. Paul had just wrote 2 chapters explaining how Christians are to get along and deal with matters of opinion. Perhaps we are all in for a crash course about this today.
Because it does not pertain to life and godliness.(2 Peter 1:3).
*Dave P-?
Now simply show a command Of CHRIST (Doctrine of Christ)(Law of liberty) that claims use of the instrument, or an example of the church using the instrument, or an inference that they did use the instrument and you have me.
*I think we have here a difference of opinion about the law of liberty. We are told how to fulfill it-bear one another's burdens, love God with all our being, and love our neighbor as ourselves. Love is the fulfillment of law. We don't need a CENI-S to fulfill the law.
1 Corinthians 14 gives us a good understanding of what our services need to be about. We could all use a good study of that chapter.
If Jesus affirmed the OT, particularly the Psalms, as true and good (let alone the rest of the Set Apart Scriptures), then Psalm 150 was not set aside and is still in effect. The Set Apart Scriptures affirm every word from God is truth. God desires those who will worship Him in Spirit and truth. So instruments are fine, commended, but not commanded.

So stop trying to twist what God has said to pit one truth against a pretended truth. When God has spoken - that's just the way it is. Can't you accept that His word endures FOREVER?
Dave P

United States

#407 May 23, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
If Jesus affirmed the OT, particularly the Psalms, as true and good (let alone the rest of the Set Apart Scriptures), then Psalm 150 was not set aside and is still in effect. The Set Apart Scriptures affirm every word from God is truth. God desires those who will worship Him in Spirit and truth. So instruments are fine, commended, but not commanded.
So stop trying to twist what God has said to pit one truth against a pretended truth. When God has spoken - that's just the way it is. Can't you accept that His word endures FOREVER?
BW- I am assuming that this response was intended for JC. If not, let me know.
Dave P

United States

#408 May 23, 2013
I do agree with the last post BW. One way to handle the word correctly is to interpret by the analogy of the faith-let scripture explain scripture so to speak. If we take the whole word of God into view, how can anyone declare that using instruments are either commanded or sin?
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#409 May 24, 2013
I just wanted to make the point that there are many things in the OT that still apply today as they did then. In fact, we can look at pre-Law Genesis and find much that was given later, as well as pre-Genesis Job also evidencing that God had told men what was right and what to do about sin. Because Jesus didn't say to not sell your daughter into prostitution doesn't mean it's allowed! It's already condemned by God!

And love is the greatest commandment, and I've never met anyone who kept that one 100% either;-)

We have enough we SHOULD be doing to be so busy making things up that God hasn't said!
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#410 May 24, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
I just wanted to make the point that there are many things in the OT that still apply today as they did then. In fact, we can look at pre-Law Genesis and find much that was given later, as well as pre-Genesis Job also evidencing that God had told men what was right and what to do about sin. Because Jesus didn't say to not sell your daughter into prostitution doesn't mean it's allowed! It's already condemned by God!
And love is the greatest commandment, and I've never met anyone who kept that one 100% either;-)
We have enough we SHOULD be doing to be so busy making things up that God hasn't said!
Amen: All of God's word is not in the Bible. The Bible even tells us that.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#411 May 24, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Amen: All of God's word is not in the Bible. The Bible even tells us that.
So, that means we have to go the catholic tradition to find the rest of it or maybe the book of Mormon...
Dave P

United States

#412 May 24, 2013
Bible doesn't exactly say that either. It simply says that the world couldn't contain all the books that could be written of Jesus's works. John also said Jesus did many other signs that aren't written. It says nothing of more of the word of God than is written. Fanciful interpretation. The NT is also clear that revelation from God, the faith, had been once for all delivered by the end of the first century.

As for BW, I agree. Not all of the OT has been "nailed to the cross" so to speak-Gods morality and holiness as revealed to us still stands true as Jesus affirmed.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#413 May 24, 2013
The Bible is part a Catholic Tradition. It is the written word of God that they decided on.

Nowhere did the Apostles or Jesus say anything about a book coming with all the truth you need to know about salvation.

You can switch from the Catholic Bible to the Book of Mormon if you think that is the Church Jesus started. We know the Baptist Church wasn't and they didnt create a Bible.

Bible Question: Bobby can you tell why you think the Book of Jude should be in the Bible? Have you ever studied this book in Sunday School?
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#414 May 24, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
The Bible is part a Catholic Tradition. It is the written word of God that they decided on.
Nowhere did the Apostles or Jesus say anything about a book coming with all the truth you need to know about salvation.
You can switch from the Catholic Bible to the Book of Mormon if you think that is the Church Jesus started. We know the Baptist Church wasn't and they didnt create a Bible.
Bible Question: Bobby can you tell why you think the Book of Jude should be in the Bible? Have you ever studied this book in Sunday School?
I think I know where you are going with this. One thing is that it barely made the canon and because he used uninspired apocryphal literature so can the catholic church.

Jude did by the way teach against gnosticism.

You will try to say that the his mention of the faith being entrusted to the saints actually means "to the catholic church".
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#415 May 24, 2013
Btw Mike, how does one become a saint according to the catholic church? When the bible authors use the term saints, are they speaking of/to all christians or only those the catholic church has given/ordained sainthood?
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#416 May 24, 2013
There are at least two major testimony accounts - the Eastern and the Western. Peter went East and Paul went West. Growth in the first century was ten times greater in the East than was in the West. Perhaps this relates to the Roman persecution of the Jews and that Christianity was viewed as a sect of Jews?

Any rate, the books of the NT are the same for the East as the West. Jude is in both accounts.

What's the Scripture that says God hasn't told man everything, but we need to accept what He has given to us? What's so hard to not know everything if the matter is our faith in God and His promises and justice towards those who seek to do His will? Do the best you can. I think Campbell and many others did the best they knew, but we should be able to filter those things and accept the good and build upon that.

Why not? Makes more sense to try to build upon where we are with the sure things of God and to re examine all things to make sure the building blocks of our faith are part of the rock Jesus said He would build His Church upon.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#417 May 24, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
There are at least two major testimony accounts - the Eastern and the Western. Peter went East and Paul went West. Growth in the first century was ten times greater in the East than was in the West. Perhaps this relates to the Roman persecution of the Jews and that Christianity was viewed as a sect of Jews?
Any rate, the books of the NT are the same for the East as the West. Jude is in both accounts.
What's the Scripture that says God hasn't told man everything, but we need to accept what He has given to us? What's so hard to not know everything if the matter is our faith in God and His promises and justice towards those who seek to do His will? Do the best you can. I think Campbell and many others did the best they knew, but we should be able to filter those things and accept the good and build upon that.
Why not? Makes more sense to try to build upon where we are with the sure things of God and to re examine all things to make sure the building blocks of our faith are part of the rock Jesus said He would build His Church upon.
Your first paragraph is especially interesting to me that Peter went east and Paul went west. The far east which is part the (1040 window) is still the most difficult to reach. Long link may not work-it is a map of the 1040 window.

http://www.google.com/imgres...
cali forni

United States

#418 May 24, 2013
I don't know what Gnosticism has to do with the RCC.
Dave P

United States

#419 May 24, 2013
Much of the east has heard the gospel previously. Many now are Muslim countries. Those in my opinion will never be recovered.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#420 May 24, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
I think I know where you are going with this. One thing is that it barely made the canon and because he used uninspired apocryphal literature so can the catholic church.
Jude did by the way teach against gnosticism.
You will try to say that the his mention of the faith being entrusted to the saints actually means "to the catholic church".
No I wasn't going that way. Jude is the inspired and inerrant written word of God. It is only the written Word of God because the CC said it was. It was one however that hotly debated.

What books that belong in the Bible are a Tradition of the Church. No scriptures say what is inspired or not. Therefore the Bible is a Tradition of the Church.

Anybody that makes it to heaven is a Saint. However the Church recognizes certain people because of how they lived their lives or how they died, for example martyred for their faith, or if it can be proved that God performed miracles through them, they are specially recognized and are canonized as Saints.

Dave P

United States

#421 May 24, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
No I wasn't going that way. Jude is the inspired and inerrant written word of God. It is only the written Word of God because the CC said it was. It was one however that hotly debated.
What books that belong in the Bible are a Tradition of the Church. No scriptures say what is inspired or not. Therefore the Bible is a Tradition of the Church.
Anybody that makes it to heaven is a Saint. However the Church recognizes certain people because of how they lived their lives or how they died, for example martyred for their faith, or if it can be proved that God performed miracles through them, they are specially recognized and are canonized as Saints.
All of this has been discussed before and shown false. Ashdod talk. There's a reason Peter called Rome "Babylon".

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#422 May 24, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
All of this has been discussed before and shown false. Ashdod talk. There's a reason Peter called Rome "Babylon".
Typical answer from the RCC is that Peter is referring to Babylon on the Euphrates.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#423 May 24, 2013
Dave: Who wrote the book of 1st John and how do YOU know that?

Why isn't Paul's letter to the Laodiceans, mentioned in the Bible, not in the Bible?
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#424 May 24, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
All of this has been discussed before and shown false. Ashdod talk. There's a reason Peter called Rome "Babylon".
Sure was. Rome was killing Catholics. The early Christians called Rome Babylon because the original Babylon,way before Christ, persecuted and killed Jews. Don't you know of the Babylon captivity, the first captivity since the exile from Egypt?

You know there was Christian history before the day you first went to your Church or read the Bible?

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