How does one “obey the Gospel?”
William

Birmingham, AL

#221 Apr 16, 2013
Jeremiah 17:9 (KJV)

9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Mark 7:20-23 (KJV)

20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.

21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,

22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:

23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

So we know that the heart is wicked and cannot be trusted.

Now, name me anyone in the Bible, or anyone in your life that you have ever met (including yourself) that has managed to change what the Bible says about the heart.

Or "clean up" the flesh.

Can you "clean up" your flesh so that it will one day be pleasing to God? On your deathbed? And how will you know if you have cleaned it up sufficiently? Where does it say anywhere in the Bible that you can clean up your flesh and make it pleasing unto God as part of your salvation?

NOWHERE, that's where.
William

Birmingham, AL

#222 Apr 16, 2013
So what do we do then?

TRUST JESUS CHRIST, believing and trusting that he paid the price for your sins, and was resurrected for your justification.

The righteousness of Jesus Christ is then imputed to you, and God will accept ONLY the righteousness of his son.

Your "works of righteousness" are as filthy rags, and it is a hateful and blasphemous thing to even think that you can somehow become righteous with God by doing anything to please him in your flesh. You make a mockery of the death and resurrection of God's son when you do that, and it is PRIDE that even compels you to do that.
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

#223 Apr 16, 2013
William wrote:
Does anyone actually believe that these two versions say the exact same thing?
1 Corinthians 7:19
New International Version (NIV)
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God's commands is what counts.
vs.
King James Bible (KJV)
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
Remember, Paul was a Rabbi who was very highly trained in the Torah, and for him to say this equates to when Jesus, in the sermon on the mount, said that not one jot or tittle could pass from the Torah till all be fulfilled or heaven and earth pass away.

Secondly, regarding translations/versions, to get a copyright there must be substantive changes in the wording from other 'versions'. All the Western translations/versions are based on the Greek manuscripts accepted by a group of scholars doing the version into English. English is not the original language the words of God were given in. The originals were Hebrew for the OT and Hebrew, Aramaic and a bit of Greek for the NT books. The language of most of the apostles and the Lord in use at that time was Aramaic for common speach and Hebrew for the Scriptures. I like the NKJV, and it's the one primarily used on my web site, but the AENT is also very useful, as it clears up a significant number of passages that are most commonly misunderstood. Another I'm exploring is the Complete Jewish Bible that is based on the Hebrew record.

AENT I Cor. 7:17-20;
"Every one, however, as Master YHWH has distributed to him, and every one as Elohim has called him, so let him walk. And also thus I enjoin upon all the assemblies. Is a circumcised person called, let him not revert to uncircumcision; and if one uncircumcised be called, let him not become circumcised. For circumcision is nothing, neither is uncircumcision; but the keeping of Elohim's commands."

In the passages of all versions retold here, I think the meaning of them all is esentially saying the same thing.

If you disagree, how so?
Walkinginlove

Danville, VA

#224 Apr 16, 2013
William to be acceptable to God you must put on Christ, so that your wedding clothing makes you acceptable. We both trust in Jesus to make us acceptable to God, scripture shows we put on Christ as clothing through baptism.

The one baptism is spoken of and contains three parts. Jesus called his death to his own will thus taking him to the cross a baptism when asking his followers if they could suffer the baptism he would suffer. Water immersion for our sins, crucifies Christ personally (derived by reading Hebrews 6 and noting that you can crucify Christ to yourself again) to themselves, and is clothed in Christ through water baptism. Finally being Spirit born through the power of the Holy Spirit.

Those who see the one baptism as having changed mentally change the passage to read "there is NOW one baptism. There has always been one baptism, death to self, buried with Christ, raised/born again through the Spirit.
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

#225 Apr 16, 2013
William wrote:
Jeremiah 17:9 (KJV)
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Mark 7:20-23 (KJV)
20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
So we know that the heart is wicked and cannot be trusted.
Now, name me anyone in the Bible, or anyone in your life that you have ever met (including yourself) that has managed to change what the Bible says about the heart.
Or "clean up" the flesh.
Can you "clean up" your flesh so that it will one day be pleasing to God? On your deathbed? And how will you know if you have cleaned it up sufficiently? Where does it say anywhere in the Bible that you can clean up your flesh and make it pleasing unto God as part of your salvation?
NOWHERE, that's where.
I can tell you haven't been exposed to the 'original Jesus' yet:-)

onedisicpletoanother.org

John 15:9-15; "As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. If you keep My commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love. These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full. This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends. You are My friends if you do whatever I command you. No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing, but I have called you friends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you."

Revelation 22:14; "Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city."

John 14:23,24; "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words, and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father's who sent Me."
Jesus gave hundreds of teachings, and each has important lessons in our discipleship to Him. We are not to be hearers only, but doers of His word. Surely Jesus came to manifest the righteousness, grace, mercy, promises, will and truth of God so that we have reason and hope in our faith.
In Micah 6:7,8 we are told:

"Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams,
Ten thousand rivers of oil?
Shall I give my firstborn for my transgression,
The fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?
He has shown you, O man, what is good;
And what does the LORD require of you
But to do justly,
To love mercy,
And to walk humbly with your God?"

Surely Jesus came to show us exactly what these things mean: to do justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with our God and our fellow man.

John 8: 31,32; "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

What does Jesus mean by 'If you abide in My word'? In my dictionary the meanings of abide are: to wait for; to endure without yielding; to bear patiently; to accept without objection; to remain stable or fixed in a state; to continue in a state; to conform to; to acquiesce in. Faith in Jesus as Christ is far more than a profession out of your mouth, the church you belong to, a spiritual feeling, or the system of religion that you practice. In the opening sermon of Jesus we are told to not just hear His words - if we want our 'house' to withstand the storms and floods we are to be doers of what He taught. In the personal aspect of our faith we are told to abide in His words if we want to 'know the truth.'

William

Birmingham, AL

#226 Apr 16, 2013
"Surely Jesus came to show us exactly what these things mean: to do justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with our God and our fellow man."

Sound advice for living in this present evil world.

But it won't get you to heaven.
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#227 Apr 16, 2013
I have to agree with Barnsweb here. Jesus mentioned the gospel of the kingdom in Matthew 4 and 24. Mark chapter one tells us the beginning of the gospel is John preparing the way of the Lord. After John was imprisoned, Jesus was preaching the gospel of the kingdom and telling people to repent and believe in the gospel.

The gospel is about more than simply the death, burial, resurrection of Christ. Context must also be considered. Why did Paul single out those facts? Because some in Corinth were denying the resurrection! And he was answering other questions. Paul's purpose was not to define the gospel there. If you want Paul's definition, try Romans 1:16-17.

There are several points where we jump to Paul's letters and never consider what Jesus had to say. I have to believe people like Barnsweb would accept Paul easier if his words weren't so twisted or elevated.
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

#228 Apr 16, 2013
There is more to the depth of those words than the surface - it includes many things.

We can start our life by repenting to do His will, which of necessity includes discipleship, immersion into His name per the promise of God, and then going on in a life that honors both Him and His word through trust in accepting that He told us the truth in those things....

So, it will get us to heaven if He is true.
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

#229 Apr 16, 2013
Dave P wrote:
I have to agree with Barnsweb here. Jesus mentioned the gospel of the kingdom in Matthew 4 and 24. Mark chapter one tells us the beginning of the gospel is John preparing the way of the Lord. After John was imprisoned, Jesus was preaching the gospel of the kingdom and telling people to repent and believe in the gospel.
The gospel is about more than simply the death, burial, resurrection of Christ. Context must also be considered. Why did Paul single out those facts? Because some in Corinth were denying the resurrection! And he was answering other questions. Paul's purpose was not to define the gospel there. If you want Paul's definition, try Romans 1:16-17.
There are several points where we jump to Paul's letters and never consider what Jesus had to say. I have to believe people like Barnsweb would accept Paul easier if his words weren't so twisted or elevated.
Yes, often people take what Paul wrote out of context of a letter written to someone else - rather than a exogesis of the gospel as we find in Romans or Hebrews.
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#230 Apr 16, 2013
Couple of notes-

Once again, I am excited about WIL. Notice this folks-WIL believes the longer ending of Mark is an addition, the ending of Matthew 28 is corrupted. And yet, despite all that, comes to the conclusions he does about baptism and its importance. That was a good response sir. You explain baptism better than the seasoned professionals. Perhaps its because you were seeking the truth and not repeating the party line.

Yes, we must be clothed with Christ to gain entry. But does this mean His own personal righteousness is imputed to us? According to the words of Jesus and Paul, the answer is no. Paul said the believers faith is counted to him for righteousness. Jesus said our righteousness must exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#231 Apr 16, 2013
The mystery long concealed has at last been made manifest to humankind by God "in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge" (Col. 2:2-3).

We are saved by grace through faith. Jesus came with grace and truth. The truth is we are saved by his grace freely given to us. This is the message of the cross.

Paul said this mystery was given to him: this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things.

"But I do not consider my life of any account as dear to myself, so that I may finish my course and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify solemnly of the gospel of the grace of God.

GRACE upon GRACE

Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#232 Apr 16, 2013
Dave P wrote:
Couple of notes-
Once again, I am excited about WIL. Notice this folks-WIL believes the longer ending of Mark is an addition, the ending of Matthew 28 is corrupted. And yet, despite all that, comes to the conclusions he does about baptism and its importance. That was a good response sir. You explain baptism better than the seasoned professionals. Perhaps its because you were seeking the truth and not repeating the party line.
Yes, we must be clothed with Christ to gain entry. But does this mean His own personal righteousness is imputed to us? According to the words of Jesus and Paul, the answer is no. Paul said the believers faith is counted to him for righteousness. Jesus said our righteousness must exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees.
Surely you don't want to go through life depending upon your own righteousness.

10 Brothers and sisters, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. 2 For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. 3 Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4 Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

5 Moses writes this about the righteousness that is by the law:“The person who does these things will live by them.” 6 But the righteousness that is by faith says:“Do not say in your heart,‘Who will ascend into heaven?’”(that is, to bring Christ down) 7 “or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’”(that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say?“The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth,“Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says,“Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for,“Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#233 Apr 16, 2013
Walkinginlove wrote:
William to be acceptable to God you must put on Christ, so that your wedding clothing makes you acceptable. We both trust in Jesus to make us acceptable to God, scripture shows we put on Christ as clothing through baptism.
The one baptism is spoken of and contains three parts. Jesus called his death to his own will thus taking him to the cross a baptism when asking his followers if they could suffer the baptism he would suffer. Water immersion for our sins, crucifies Christ personally (derived by reading Hebrews 6 and noting that you can crucify Christ to yourself again) to themselves, and is clothed in Christ through water baptism. Finally being Spirit born through the power of the Holy Spirit.
Those who see the one baptism as having changed mentally change the passage to read "there is NOW one baptism. There has always been one baptism, death to self, buried with Christ, raised/born again through the Spirit.
Great comment!
William

Sylacauga, AL

#234 Apr 16, 2013
To be acceptable to God is to trust what his son did for you on your behalf. That cuts out your works entirely, because there is nothing you can do to gain favor with God outside of Jesus Christ and his merits.

What can you do in your flesh to please God, when God has repeatedly told you that only the righteousness of his son will be acceptable to him? Get into a baptismal font?

Good luck with all that, if you seriously believe that that is the "one" baptism that the Holy Spirit had Paul to write down in his Ephesian letter.
Walkinginlove

Danville, VA

#235 Apr 16, 2013
William wrote:
To be acceptable to God is to trust what his son did for you on your behalf. That cuts out your works entirely, because there is nothing you can do to gain favor with God outside of Jesus Christ and his merits.
What can you do in your flesh to please God, when God has repeatedly told you that only the righteousness of his son will be acceptable to him? Get into a baptismal font?
Good luck with all that, if you seriously believe that that is the "one" baptism that the Holy Spirit had Paul to write down in his Ephesian letter.
William if you want to draw the line on works etc. faith itself is actually a work is it not? You must have faith, thus you must do something.

Anyone who puts their faith and belief in Jesus Christ should know that in their best day, if they could make a hole in one every hole at the Masters they would still be as filthy rags compared to the Glory of God and his gift of Jesus to us.

Simon the Sorcerer clearly shows that water alone only gets you wet. He had never changed from the trickster that he was, thus because he had no real faith he did not pray when commanded to do so, nor did the Apostles pray for him when asked.

If I have faith in God and I believe that God sent Jesus who died and made a way for me, then it is logical that I would want to do things to please God. Not because it makes me right with God, because only Jesus can do this. But it is important that we want to do the things that God has told us to do.

My son is still my son even if he disobeys me, though there are days LOL. But when he obeys he honors me and because he honors me he honors God because it is God who placed me in the position of being his leader. It is not his good works that makes him my son, it is blood that makes that so.

And it is the blood that was shed that makes us children of God. Why would we want to not do good things in his name?
William

Phenix City, AL

#236 Apr 16, 2013
What "good things" can you do in his name? Heal the sick? Cast out demons? Raise the dead?

Help little old ladies across the street in his name? What can you possibly do to bring glory to the son of God except to tell someone else about what he did for them at Calvary?

You want to "do" something for Christ? Go be an ambassador for him, and tell people about the gospel of the grace of God.
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

#237 Apr 16, 2013
Looking at the simple things we are able to do in life that He commends, odd that He mentions a cup of cold water, yet never mentions what you said.

Wonder why? Did Paul know more than Jesus? Or who have you been listening to?

But it's good advice that whatever we do (if in the parameters of a disciple of the Lord), that we do it in His name.
William

Birmingham, AL

#238 Apr 16, 2013
"Looking at the simple things we are able to do in life that He commends, odd that He mentions a cup of cold water, yet never mentions what you said."

Never mentions what I said? What about these verses, as part of the so-called "great commission?"

Mark 16:15-18 (KJV)

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

That is what he told those 11 disciples. And those signs would follow them that believe. That's what those verses SAY, right? Every Pentecostal hangs their hat on these verses every single day, claiming them. Did they get it wrong?
Walkinginlove

Danville, VA

#239 Apr 17, 2013
William wrote:
What "good things" can you do in his name? Heal the sick? Cast out demons? Raise the dead?
I little old lady gave two pennies, yet God saw it as more because of her faith. You see the things as through the worlds eyes. Jesus said a true leader is servant of all. Those who care for the sick, or children or feed the poor who do it because of Jesus are giving glory to him that bought them.
William wrote:
What "good things"
Help little old ladies across the street in his name?
Ah but since we are all saved without chance of loss we can just run them little old ladies over as they cross the street, after all I can't lose my salvation now can I!
William wrote:
What "good things"
What can you possibly do to bring glory to the son of God except to tell someone else about what he did for them at Calvary?
You want to "do" something for Christ? Go be an ambassador for him, and tell people about the gospel of the grace of God.
Telling the good news is part of what he said for us to do, changing our ways of self centered thinking and placing others ahead of ourselves shows others that there is something real to this fairy tale the world thinks it is. If you give a cool drink of water to someone thirsting you have done it to Jesus. When we love and forgive we are glorifying God because we are now thinking Godly thoughts. It is still a drop in a bucket as large as the universe to the 1000th power, but it is what he asked us to do, it pleases him that we do them. And it shows Jesus to a lost and dieing world.

This is worthy of God, because he has told us to do them. We do not gain glory when we do them and somehow I think you see that, we are simply doing what we are asked to do.

if you think this gains us the right to point at others as less, then you are mistaken, we who are found are 99 times less important then the one sheep that is still lost.
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

#240 Apr 17, 2013
It's OK to feel good about loving others more today than you did yesterday - isn't it?

Or to pray for someone who has persecuted or wronged you or scorned you for your faith in Jesus Christ?

There are many things that He said we are blessed to do, and I don't think He wants us to feel nothing we have done that He told us to is just filthy rags - we should feel good when we take His words to heart and live them out in our life.

To stay upon the 'filthy rags' thoughts too much might detract from the blessings and joy He intended for us to have in the more abundant life.

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