Splitting the Body of Christ
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#81 May 27, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
The Muslims believe in Sola Scriptura of the Koran. There are many denominations. That is why they fight each other like the Shiites and the Sunnis for example. No Authority.
You seem to be saying that anybody can write a book and call it scripture.

Yea, I know the catholics have a perfect record on unity, you say you love everybody:-)
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#82 May 27, 2013
No. I am saying Jesus left us a Church with the truth, with Authority to bind and loose and to forgive sins or not a book.

Islam left a book with no authority to decide what it mean

They believe in Sola Scripture and have a number of sects all believing something different.

SS bring Chaos.
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#83 May 27, 2013
Your lack of knowledge of the history of the Bible amazes me. To you, which is wrong of course, your salvation depends on how you interpret a Book but you have no clue on its origin, why any of the books that in made it there did, and why some books many claim should be in there aren't. You talk about Catholics and depending on the Church. We know where the Church came from.You depend on a Book and have no clue where it came from.

*Our salvation depends on faith in Jesus. We learn about the gospel from the book. Your "church" does no good by replacing truth with tradition that isn't truth. God decided before the history of the world that He would send His Son to die for sins. Why would we believe He left the decision about what His word was in our hands? Of course He didn't. The real early church had all the scriptures by the end of the first century.

The books that are included in most Bibles-not the Catholic one-are included because God inspired them and it was God's intention. The apocrypha and other books were not inspired and thus not part of God's word.

You don't depend on the church-you worship it. The church is your God, your devotion goes to it. Idolatry may come to mind. The church is perfect, infallible, can't be truly saved without it, can't study without a church bible or church commentary or leaders interpreting for you.

Speaking of interpretation, if that is the RCC interpretation of 1 Corinthians 3, then using an uninspired writing to back that faulty interpretation and uphold an unbiblical doctrine, a person is better off reading for himself by himself because he couldn't possibly mess it up on his own that badly.

And the catholics named it the new testament? Forget Jesus ever said anything-we did it.
mopman

United States

#84 May 27, 2013
Come on peeps. All y'all not on the same ship. We are either headed to the same place, or we not.
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#85 May 27, 2013
Let's have some fun with this, since Mike went to the "protestants invented this" Ashdod idea.

Praying to Jesus. Not found in the Bible. Jesus explicitly says to pray to the Father.
*I agree-He also said call no man "Father" as well. Don't bother with a retort Mike-seen it before and all the texts your boys use. Let's just say no one here buying it.

The Trinity. That word is not in the Bible.
*Agree-the term is Godhead.

The "Bible Only" idea. AKA Sola Scriptura
*Disagree-scripture shows that both Jesus and Paul expected people to be able to read, understand, and interpret scriptures. This would be a good topic for a real discussion on (and not a simple statement from a CCC).

The belief that the Old Testament and the New Testament are "Inspired." Not in the Bible.
*Absolutely wrong. 2 Timothy 3:15-17; 1 Peter 1:12, 2 Peter 1:20-21.

“The Sinners Prayer."
*Agree 10,000%.

Infant Dedications”
*Agree.

Denying infants Baptism. not in the Bible
*Disagree-don't see it anywhere, don't read of original sin, no children baptized-only in wordplay.

Modern “Bible Studies” whenever "the Scriptures" are discussed in the Holy Bible, they are in the form of teaching or edification, not a "This is what it means to me, what do you think?" approach.
*Please explain what the above means.

Not praying the "Lord's Prayer, or the Our Father in Church."Pray then [to His Father] in this way"
*Lord's prayer not a prayer to be repeated. It was the model prayer, showing the manner in which disciples are to pray. No benefit in simply repeating this prayer.

“The Altar Call.
*Agree 10,000%.

Modern Christian pastors who refuse to give any honor to the Blessed Mother of Our Lord as commanded in the Holy Scriptures
*Truly Ashdod talk. No such command to be found.

'Bowing your heads and closing your eyes when you pray"
Refusing to kneel for Our Lord as the Holy Bible commands.
*Bowing of heads and kneeling and prostrating self before God is scriptural. Prostrating and kneeling and bowing are acts of worship. Doing this to statues, pictures, or another human being is idolatry.

The Complete Absence of "Bishops, Priests and Deacons" in most Modern Christian Churches.
*Most congregations I know have bishops. We call them elders, and there are more than one in each congregation. Most churches have deacons, and every church has priests, because Peter says we are all a royal priesthood.

So called "Devotional Bibles" filled with quips, stories, and jokes. Modern Christian churches and publishers have defiled the Holy Bible (with good intentions BTW) by contradicting the words of Revelation 22:18-19 and adding to the Holy Scriptures.
*Not exactly what Revelation was talking about, but in principle I agree. Hate the devotional or "study" Bibles.

Asking Jesus into your Heart" and the
"Faith Alone" idea of Salvation

Desiring a "Personal relationship with Jesus Christ

*Agree 10,000%.

Scripture interprets Scripture.
*This is just a plain and simple fact.

The belief that any distinctly Protestant idea was taught by any Christian in the first millennium. This is just history 101.
*Don't know how you define this, what you mean, what is a distinct protestant idea.

Should we now look at Catholic inventions?
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#86 May 27, 2013
mopman wrote:
Come on peeps. All y'all not on the same ship. We are either headed to the same place, or we not.
Don't think we are mopman.
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#87 May 27, 2013
CATHOLIC INVENTIONS:

Prayers for the dead
Sign of the cross
Veneration of angels, dead saints
Images
The mass
Mary exalted as Mother of God
Special clergy
Last Rites
Purgatory
Latin exclusively for mass
Praying to Mary
Pope
Kissing the pope's foot
Papal power extended to earthly kingdoms
Holy Water
Worship or veneration of St Joseph
College of cardinals
Baptism of bells
Canonization of dead saints
Fasting on Fridays, and during Lent
Mass as a sacrifice
Unmarried priesthood
Rosary
The Inquiition (nice one here)
Confession to a priest
Transubstantiation
Adoration of the communion host
Bible forbidden to be read by laymen
Scapular invented
Seven sacraments
Ave Maria
Jesuits begun
Tradition declared equal to the Bible
Apocryphal books added
Creed of Pious IV
Immaculate conception of Mary
Syllabus of Errors
Infallibility of the pope
Public schools condemned
Assumption of Mary into heaven
Mary proclaimed Mother of the church
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#88 May 28, 2013
Dave P wrote:
CATHOLIC INVENTIONS:
Prayers for the dead
Sign of the cross
Veneration of angels, dead saints
Images
The mass
Mary exalted as Mother of God
Special clergy
Last Rites
Purgatory
Latin exclusively for mass
Praying to Mary
Pope
Kissing the pope's foot
Papal power extended to earthly kingdoms
Holy Water
Worship or veneration of St Joseph
College of cardinals
Baptism of bells
Canonization of dead saints
Fasting on Fridays, and during Lent
Mass as a sacrifice
Unmarried priesthood
Rosary
The Inquiition (nice one here)
Confession to a priest
Transubstantiation
Adoration of the communion host
Bible forbidden to be read by laymen
Scapular invented
Seven sacraments
Ave Maria
Jesuits begun
Tradition declared equal to the Bible
Apocryphal books added
Creed of Pious IV
Immaculate conception of Mary
Syllabus of Errors
Infallibility of the pope
Public schools condemned
Assumption of Mary into heaven
Mary proclaimed Mother of the church
(some of this are in the Bible)

But , exactly my point. congratulations . We are both right in our Posts. You have proved and agree that everything that we need to know for faith and worship is not mentioned in the Bible. The bible is profitable for teaching as Paul said.

It is called Tradition. Both Protestants and Catholics have this. The Apostles taught the Catholic Traditions with at big T. The practices of the church, not dogma, evolved from the Authority given the Church by Jesus. For example, women covering their head in church.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#89 May 28, 2013
mopman wrote:
Come on peeps. All y'all not on the same ship. We are either headed to the same place, or we not.
I love the analogy of ships and rafts by a famous baptist convert to Catholicism Steve Ray. All are headed the same way.

http://www.catholic-convert.com/wp-content/up...

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#90 May 28, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
(some of this are in the Bible)
But , exactly my point. congratulations . We are both right in our Posts. You have proved and agree that everything that we need to know for faith and worship is not mentioned in the Bible. The bible is profitable for teaching as Paul said.
It is called Tradition. Both Protestants and Catholics have this. The Apostles taught the Catholic Traditions with at big T. The practices of the church, not dogma, evolved from the Authority given the Church by Jesus. For example, women covering their head in church.
Disagree, The bible is complete and all we need for life and salvation.
2 timothy 3
16 All Scripture is [h]inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for [i]training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

2 Peter 1:3

To those who have received a faith of the same [b]kind as ours,[c]by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ: 2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord; 3 seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us [d]by His own glory and [e]excellence. 4 [f]For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.

Does that last text seem to indicate that the word is not enough.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#91 May 28, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
Disagree, The bible is complete and all we need for life and salvation.
2 timothy 3
16 All Scripture is [h]inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for [i]training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
2 Peter 1:3
To those who have received a faith of the same [b]kind as ours,[c]by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ: 2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord; 3 seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us [d]by His own glory and [e]excellence. 4 [f]For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.
Does that last text seem to indicate that the word is not enough.


You just re quoted that scripture , OT by the way, is profitable for teaching.

The last text says True knowledge of him. The Bible specifically says that the written word is only part of the True Knowledge. Tradition is as important.

I have question on the Topic of "Bible Study". Where is concept of "Bible Study' where protestants get together read scripure and then ask each other what they think the Truth means.

Did Paul tell Timothy what to day and the ask him if he thought this was right?

Did Jesus ask his disciples who left him after commanding to eat his flesh and drink his blood, what do you think about it, does this sound reasonable? No, he said to stop their murmuring. They didnt agree and left.

Jesus left us with Authority. Was it a book? No. The Church has the Authority, to bind and loose, to forgive sins or not, and is the pillar of Truth.

It is called the Kingdom of God for a reason. You obey the King. The King left us a Church. Whoever hears the Church hears the King.
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#92 May 28, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
(some of this are in the Bible)
But , exactly my point. congratulations . We are both right in our Posts. You have proved and agree that everything that we need to know for faith and worship is not mentioned in the Bible. The bible is profitable for teaching as Paul said.
It is called Tradition. Both Protestants and Catholics have this. The Apostles taught the Catholic Traditions with at big T. The practices of the church, not dogma, evolved from the Authority given the Church by Jesus. For example, women covering their head in church.
No I haven't "proven your point". All we need to know is in the scriptures, the Bible is profitable for teaching. Tradition, here is the key.

*Matthew 15, Jesus does not condemn tradition as such. Traditions are not necessarily wrong or sin. But, when tradition is regarded as authoritative and bound as God's word, then it is sin; and when man's tradition makes God's commands of no effect, then it is sin.

Matters of opinion are covered by Paul in Romans 14-16.

Agree-ALL OF US have traditions in the church, whether we will admit this or not. Some bind their traditions-big trouble.
Mike Peterson

Smyrna, GA

#93 May 28, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
No I haven't "proven your point". All we need to know is in the scriptures, the Bible is profitable for teaching. Tradition, here is the key.
*Matthew 15, Jesus does not condemn tradition as such. Traditions are not necessarily wrong or sin. But, when tradition is regarded as authoritative and bound as God's word, then it is sin; and when man's tradition makes God's commands of no effect, then it is sin.
Matters of opinion are covered by Paul in Romans 14-16.
Agree-ALL OF US have traditions in the church, whether we will admit this or not. Some bind their traditions-big trouble.
We both named traditions in protestant and Catholic Churches. Why is your traditions more biblical than the CC?

For example your tradition of not eating the flesh and drinking the blood of Christ. Those words are in every translation of the Bible. Is your tradition of not following this Biblical? This is the only record we have of any of Christ’s followers leaving him for purely doctrinal reasons

The Greek word used for "eats" (trogon) is very blunt and has the sense of "chewing" or "gnawing." This is not the language of metaphor.
Mike Peterson

Smyrna, GA

#94 May 28, 2013
Lets go back to Bible Study.

In my protestant days Bible Study was getting together to read the Bible and discuss what you think this verse means to you and then I would say no, I think this verse means this. First you had to synchronize Bibles because all the translation mattered. Usually you would have to use what the Pastor said to use.

Where is this concept of Bible Study in the Bible. Show me one instance where scriptures were being talked about and the author asked whoever the person being "talked or written to" Do you think I am right or what is your opinion of what I just taught you? Let me get some insight on the Truth from you.

Of course not. There is one Truth. The Church. Jesus specifically said so. It is a Kingdom.

William

Birmingham, AL

#95 May 28, 2013
Paul told Timothy to show himself approved unto God (not any man) as a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

2 Timothy 2:15

2 Corinthians 6 further tells us who our teacher should be, and it isn't any man.

So now you know what to do (study) and under what teacher (the holy spirit).
William

Birmingham, AL

#96 May 28, 2013
Check that ... 1 Corinthians 2.
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#97 May 28, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
We both named traditions in protestant and Catholic Churches. Why is your traditions more biblical than the CC?
For example your tradition of not eating the flesh and drinking the blood of Christ. Those words are in every translation of the Bible. Is your tradition of not following this Biblical? This is the only record we have of any of Christ’s followers leaving him for purely doctrinal reasons
The Greek word used for "eats" (trogon) is very blunt and has the sense of "chewing" or "gnawing." This is not the language of metaphor.
One GIGANTIC problem the RCC has is that they have elevated their traditions to the status of scripture when it is not; and many of these traditions nullify the actual commands and intentions of God. Don't worry though-many of these so called "protesters" do the exact same thing. Altar calls, sinners prayer, asking Jesus into your heart, on and on.

*We don't have a "tradition" of not "eating His flesh or drinking His blood". I gather around His table every Lord's day. The difference-I don't believe we are literally drinking His blood or eating His flesh, and we are not sacrificing Him again over and over as the RCC teaches.
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#98 May 28, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
Lets go back to Bible Study.
In my protestant days Bible Study was getting together to read the Bible and discuss what you think this verse means to you and then I would say no, I think this verse means this. First you had to synchronize Bibles because all the translation mattered. Usually you would have to use what the Pastor said to use.
Where is this concept of Bible Study in the Bible. Show me one instance where scriptures were being talked about and the author asked whoever the person being "talked or written to" Do you think I am right or what is your opinion of what I just taught you? Let me get some insight on the Truth from you.
Of course not. There is one Truth. The Church. Jesus specifically said so. It is a Kingdom.
How about those noble Bereans who searched the scriptures daily (not the catechisms) to see if what Paul said was actually true in Acts 17? Also one of the main functions in Christian assemblies is to be learning according to 1 Corinthians 14. Paul also reasoned regularly in the synagogues. No doubt some back and forth questioning and discussion took place. Paul spent three months in the synagogue at Ephesus doing this very thing.
Mike Peterson

United States

#99 May 29, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
How about those noble Bereans who searched the scriptures daily (not the catechisms) to see if what Paul said was actually true in Acts 17? Also one of the main functions in Christian assemblies is to be learning according to 1 Corinthians 14. Paul also reasoned regularly in the synagogues. No doubt some back and forth questioning and discussion took place. Paul spent three months in the synagogue at Ephesus doing this very thing.
And Paul did not change a thing. Authority
William

Phenix City, AL

#100 May 29, 2013
The Bereans probably caught hell for their sola scripture-ness.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Bassett Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
dr.joel smithers (Sep '16) Sep 7 Lurliec 5
Speak Out Bassett Virginia !!!! (Jul '15) Apr '17 Bill 6
My girl (Jan '17) Apr '17 Bill 3
Terry or Susan Walker (Nov '10) May '15 vatechalltheway 16
Lee Gilley shooting.... (Jan '15) Jan '15 Penultimate 2
News Charges advance (Aug '10) Jan '15 miss cleveland 3
News Beware of online romance lies (Sep '10) Dec '14 ss4twentynine 2

Bassett Jobs

More from around the web

Personal Finance

Bassett Mortgages