Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#221 Jun 25, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Did you say you agreed with unity or not. You were waffling.
I know you don't agree with it.(Y0u intentionally create disunity.) If you would, you would be in the Catholic Church.
I am saying that unity cannot be found in perfect agreement, especially when the catholic church makes the rules based on mere men plus tradition. To have faith in Christ alone you must stop having saving faith in the pope and mary.

You see, protestants cannot accept that portion. I might be able to accept certain catholic rituals but I could never trust in anyone other than Jesus for my salvation.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#222 Jun 25, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
I am saying that unity cannot be found in perfect agreement, especially when the catholic church makes the rules based on mere men plus tradition. To have faith in Christ alone you must stop having saving faith in the pope and mary.
You see, protestants cannot accept that portion. I might be able to accept certain catholic rituals but I could never trust in anyone other than Jesus for my salvation.
You are trusting in yourself just like RCS. Jesus left a Church to trust in which is the pillar and foundation of Truth. Bobby is not the pillar and foundation of truth. The Bible is not he pillar and foundation of Truth

To prove that, the Church produced his written word.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#223 Jun 25, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
You are trusting in yourself just like RCS. Jesus left a Church to trust in which is the pillar and foundation of Truth. Bobby is not the pillar and foundation of truth. The Bible is not he pillar and foundation of Truth
To prove that, the Church produced his written word.
Then the rcc should abide in what is written, but it doesn't!
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#224 Jun 25, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
Then the rcc should abide in what is written, but it doesn't!
According to Bobby.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#225 Jun 25, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
According to Bobby.
According to the scripture mot Mike!
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#226 Jun 25, 2013
“The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history.”

Revisionist history has a way of changing the truth.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#227 Jun 25, 2013
Bobby wrote:
“The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history.”
Revisionist history has a way of changing the truth.
“To be deep in history, is to cease to be Protestant.”
John Henry Newman

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#228 Jun 26, 2013
MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
Not knowing "their religion very well" certainly hasn't stopped you from engaging in Catholic bashing right along with the rest of your buds.
Please list where I bashed?

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#229 Jun 26, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
The Bible is not he pillar and foundation of Truth
To prove that, the Church produced his written word.
This quote from you here is total falseness. Even Jesus claimed his word as truth.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#230 Jun 26, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
Even Jesus claimed his word as truth.
Duh. But Jesus was was going to return to the Father. He had to leave his truth through the apostles?

How did decide to do that? Create a Church.

From Bible; what is the pillar of Truth?

"But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth."

From the Bible about the Bible. Nothing

From the Bible about scripture:

" sufficient for teaching". By who, the Church which is the pillar and foundation of truth

The Church started on Pentecost. The Bible was created 350 years by the Church and is the written word of God taught by the Church.

Just as Jesus set it up.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#231 Jun 26, 2013
From a Lutheran Theologian de Wette

"The dissolution of the Protestant church is inevitable; her framework is so thoroughly rotten that no further patching will avail. The whole structure of evangelical religion is shattered, and few look with sympathy on its tottering fall. Within the compass of a square mile you hear four, five, six different gospels. The people, believe me, mark it will; they speak most contemptuously of their teachers, whom they regard either as blockheads or knaves, in teaching these opposite doctrines...growing immorality, a consequence of contempt for religion, concurs also as a cause to its deeper downfall....Oh Protestantism! has it, then, at last come to this with thee, that thy disciples protest against all religion? Facts, which are before the eyes of the whole world, declare aloud that this signification of thy name is no idle play upon words."
Dave P

Sarasota, FL

#232 Jun 26, 2013
Growing immorality-is that only a Protestant problem? Hardly. That's a human and religious problem. Check the headlines. DOMA struck down. Will your RCC respond or cave? and who is the first target now that gay marriage will become law of the land? Any gay Catholics preparing to demand a marriage ceremony in a Catholic Church? Will the RCC recognize it? Time shall tell.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#233 Jun 26, 2013
Dave P wrote:
Growing immorality-is that only a Protestant problem? Hardly. That's a human and religious problem. Check the headlines. DOMA struck down. Will your RCC respond or cave? and who is the first target now that gay marriage will become law of the land? Any gay Catholics preparing to demand a marriage ceremony in a Catholic Church? Will the RCC recognize it? Time shall tell.
Good point, Dave.

I am betting that the RCC will lead the way in marrying gays. I could be wrong but if the pope says its so.......that means it so ;-)- as you said, time will tell.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#234 Jun 26, 2013
Mike, if you are reading this please answer something for me.

If the Catholic Church begins to marry gays and acknowledge gays as people who “can” marry, will that change your mind about things? Or will it be okay since THE CHURCH says its okay. Btw, Im hoping this will not occur but I have a feeling the Catholic Church will cave on this and lead the way.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#235 Jun 26, 2013
JesusCreed wrote:
Mike, if you are reading this please answer something for me.
If the Catholic Church begins to marry gays and acknowledge gays as people who “can” marry, will that change your mind about things? Or will it be okay since THE CHURCH says its okay. Btw, Im hoping this will not occur but I have a feeling the Catholic Church will cave on this and lead the way.
Will not happen.

The Church is the only ones not to cave in on its teaching on Birth Control.

Every Protestant group in the World before 1920 said it was sin according to the Bible. The Bible has not changed.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#236 Jun 26, 2013
Mormons are not Christians but they still teach that is a sin.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#237 Jun 26, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Will not happen.
The Church is the only ones not to cave in on its teaching on Birth Control.
Every Protestant group in the World before 1920 said it was sin according to the Bible. The Bible has not changed.
The subject was not birth control, it was gay marriage...
Dave P

Sarasota, FL

#238 Jun 26, 2013
Didn't know Jesus said anything about birth control. Pill in the first century?
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#239 Jun 26, 2013
Dave P wrote:
Didn't know Jesus said anything about birth control. Pill in the first century?
Until 1930, all Protestant denominations agreed with the Catholic Church’s teaching condemning contraception as sinful. At its 1930 Lambeth Conference, the Anglican church, swayed by growing social pressure, announced that contraception would be allowed in some circumstances. Soon the Anglican church completely caved in, allowing contraception across the board. Since then, all other Protestant denominations have followed suit. Today, the Catholic Church alone proclaims the historic Christian position on contraception.

John Calvin said, "The voluntary spilling of semen outside of intercourse between man and woman is a monstrous thing. Deliberately to withdraw from coitus in order that semen may fall on the ground is doubly monstrous. For this is to extinguish the hope of the race and to kill before he is born the hoped-for offspring."

John Wesley warned, "Those sins that dishonor the body are very displeasing to God, and the evidence of vile affections. Observe, the thing which he [Onan] did displeased the Lord—and it is to be feared; thousands, especially of single persons, by this very thing, still displease the Lord, and destroy their own souls." (These passages are quoted in Charles D. Provan, The Bible and Birth Control, which contains many quotes by historic Protestant figures who recognize contraception’s evils.)

The Bible mentions at least one form of contraception specifically and condemns it. Coitus interruptus, was used by Onan to avoid fulfilling his duty according to the ancient Jewish law of fathering children for one’s dead brother. "Judah said to Onan,‘Go in to your brother’s wife, and perform the duty of a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother.’ But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother’s wife he spilled the semen on the ground, lest he should give offspring to his brother. And what he did was displeasing in the sight of the Lord, and he slew him also" (Gen. 38:8–10).

The biblical penalty for not giving your brother’s widow children was public humiliation, not death (Deut. 25:7–10). But Onan received death as punishment for his crime. This means his crime was more than simply not fulfilling the duty of a brother-in-law. He lost his life because he violated natural law, as Jewish and Christian commentators have always understood. For this reason, certain forms of contraception have historically been known as "Onanism," after the man who practiced it, just as homosexuality has historically been known as "Sodomy," after the men of Sodom, who practiced that vice (cf. Gen. 19).

Contraception was so far outside the biblical mindset and so obviously wrong that it did not need the frequent condemnations other sins did. Scripture condemns the practice when it mentions it. Once a moral principle has been established in the Bible, every possible application of it need not be mentioned. For example, the general principle that theft is wrong was clearly established in Scripture; but there’s no need to provide an exhaustive list of every kind of theft. Similarly, since the principle that contraception is wrong has been established by being condemned when it’s mentioned in the Bible, every particular form of contraception does not need to be dealt with in Scripture in order for us to see that it is condemned.
Dave P

Sarasota, FL

#240 Jun 26, 2013
Perhaps the issue with Onan isn't contraception. Perhaps the issue was his attitude. This also predates the law of Moses.
Contraception is a modern invention. More study to be done on this when time permits.

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