Separation Of Church And State

Posted in the Bassett Forum

Comments

Showing posts 1 - 20 of65
< prev page
|
Go to last page| Jump to page:

Since: Jul 12

Pineville, WV

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#1
Jul 8, 2013
 
http://wvva.m0bl.net/w/main/story/95067666/

The ACLU is concerned that a monument of the "10 Commandments" on our courthouse lawn is unconstitutional.

How do you feel about this?

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#2
Jul 8, 2013
 
Awesome_Steve_Monkey wrote:
http://wvva.m0bl.net/w/main/st ory/95067666/
The ACLU is concerned that a monument of the "10 Commandments" on our courthouse lawn is unconstitutional.
How do you feel about this?
For you to title a thread Separation of Church and State means you know ZERO about the Constitution. FYI those words do not appear in the Constitution but the ACLU never met an anti-Judeo-Christian cause it didn't fully support. If you folks cave in to this ACLU crap you are not worthy of being called Americans even if you are a non-believer. By the way the Decalogue and Moses are all over the Supreme Court building in Washington DC.

Since: Jul 12

Pineville, WV

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#3
Jul 8, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

Well, the ACLU would like to "separate" the donated "church" monument from the "state" owned property.

Jefferson wrote, "I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.

You are correct - this is not an example of the government interfering with any church or a church influencing government. Alas - it is too late to better title my discussion.

I DO have mixed feelings about this monument. The ACLU would suggest that it shows preference towards Christianity over other religions. The local churches who donated the monument would suggest that they have provided some guidelines for our out-of-control drug-addicted citizens. I would suggest that I could view it every single day and it would evoke no emotions from me whatsoever.

What actually bothers me is that it seems like a publicity stunt. Were they INVITING someone (or the ACLU) to make a fuss so that they could stand up for themselves - on the news, perhaps, or the newspaper, at least? The slanderous "documentary" about our county was released online on July 1st - perhaps this is a way our "good citizens" are trying to be noticed. I can't help but think that there were lots of other places that the monument could have been seen by more people.
Dave P

Nicholasville, KY

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#4
Jul 8, 2013
 
My 2 cents worth:

What we as Americans are guaranteed is the freedom to worship however we choose, and that the federal government would not institute a "national" church like the church of England. "Separation of church and state" is widely misunderstood or knowingly abused by leftists.

Individual states did have the right to set up a state "religion" so to speak, and several of them did. Massachusetts and Connecticut I believe did.

I have a very low opinion of the ACLU. Nothing good to say about them at all.

As for the 10 commandments, here's where it gets dicey to me. I think both sides often put such things up at courthouses and federal buildings for attention. Some want to show how Christian they are, others want to show how anti-Christian they are. If Christians feel so strongly about them, put them in big letters on your car. Put a copy on your lawn.

If you don't like them don't look at them. No big deal. People are just looking to be offended.

Honestly though, Christians should be more interested in showing Christ in their lives than putting copies of the Big 10 up on a courthouse lawn. And the ACLU and haters should go worry about people whose civil liberties are really being threatened. No one said that not being offended was a right.

Since: Jul 12

Pineville, WV

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#5
Jul 9, 2013
 
This is what I think our community members are expressing by donating a monument of the 10 Commandments and placing it on the courthouse lawn:

One year ago, Mr. Dunne - the NY film director - raised $50,000 to "document" our our little town. When it became evident that he was portraying us ALL as hopeless, jobless, pathetic drug junkies, our community members got mad and NOW they are about to get busy!

There were long, heated discussions in the Pineville and Oceana Topix Forums about how "responsible" the good citizens were for the drug addicted citizens. Our police force has been accused of being corrupt. Our local governments have been accused of being corrupt. Everyone who is NOT a drug addict was accused of "burying our heads in the sand", "looking the other way", closing our doors and ignoring what was happening. General opinion did not support that ANYone did ANYthing to prevent all of this drug abuse. That just is NOT true - do you know who has steadily been doing all that they can do, for decades, to redeem and rehabilitate our drug-abusing criminals? Churches.

The feelings and hopes were that if our drug problems were exposed (via "Oxyana"), then we would get the support and resources we need to actually get some sort of control over them. I rationalized that at least 3 good things could come of this movie: media attention, motivation for the community to act, and increased tourism. I think NOW all those things are really going to happen.

I think this monument is how our citizens are saying: we TRIED to save the wayward ones and we can't help it if the results of all that work were not even worth mentioning. The 10 Commandments are a guideline and the drug-addicted ones could save THEMSELVES if they would just follow them. I think the monument was placed on the courthouse lawn for the controversy of it and to make the point: THIS PLACE is where we will find the people who need our help.

I find their actions to be commendable and touching. I think this marks the beginning of our county's redemption.
pearl

Salt Lake City, UT

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#6
Jul 9, 2013
 
Dave P wrote:
My 2 cents worth:
What we as Americans are guaranteed is the freedom to worship however we choose, and that the federal government would not institute a "national" church like the church of England. "Separation of church and state" is widely misunderstood or knowingly abused by leftists.
Individual states did have the right to set up a state "religion" so to speak, and several of them did. Massachusetts and Connecticut I believe did.
I have a very low opinion of the ACLU. Nothing good to say about them at all.
As for the 10 commandments, here's where it gets dicey to me. I think both sides often put such things up at courthouses and federal buildings for attention. Some want to show how Christian they are, others want to show how anti-Christian they are. If Christians feel so strongly about them, put them in big letters on your car. Put a copy on your lawn.
If you don't like them don't look at them. No big deal. People are just looking to be offended.
Honestly though, Christians should be more interested in showing Christ in their lives than putting copies of the Big 10 up on a courthouse lawn. And the ACLU and haters should go worry about people whose civil liberties are really being threatened. No one said that not being offended was a right.
And so we can see one of the problems with Christianity in this nation. To think there are only two "sides" is an error. If Christian propaganda is displayed on government property, it's right to display propaganda from all faiths. Challenging isn't it?
Dave P

Nicholasville, KY

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#7
Jul 9, 2013
 
pearl wrote:
<quoted text>And so we can see one of the problems with Christianity in this nation. To think there are only two "sides" is an error. If Christian propaganda is displayed on government property, it's right to display propaganda from all faiths. Challenging isn't it?
Relevance. As Mark pointed out, Moses and other Biblical themes are all over the place at the Supreme Court and other govt. places because of our history.

What you're calling propaganda is what our country's laws are actually based on. There is historical precedent, a reason to acknowledge them. I am not against other ideas from different faiths being included, but where's the relevance for them? Our legal system isn't based on Buddhist philosophy.
Mike Peterson

United States

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#8
Jul 10, 2013
 

Judged:

1

Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
Relevance. As Mark pointed out, Moses and other Biblical themes are all over the place at the Supreme Court and other govt. places because of our history.
What you're calling propaganda is what our country's laws are actually based on. There is historical precedent, a reason to acknowledge them. I am not against other ideas from different faiths being included, but where's the relevance for them? Our legal system isn't based on Buddhist philosophy.
Relevance. Catholicism is all over the world because of 2000 years of history not 250.

What you are calling Protestantism is propaganda. There is no historical precedent to recognize Protestantism.

You think the Constitution of a country is sacrosanct but the God's written word is open to personal interpretation.

Is the truth of man made laws more important than God's.

Why can't somebody interpret the constitution the way they want to?
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#9
Jul 10, 2013
 
Awesome_Steve_Monkey wrote:
Well, the ACLU would like to "separate" the donated "church" monument from the "state" owned property.
Jefferson wrote, "I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.
You are correct - this is not an example of the government interfering with any church or a church influencing government. Alas - it is too late to better title my discussion.
I DO have mixed feelings about this monument. The ACLU would suggest that it shows preference towards Christianity over other religions. The local churches who donated the monument would suggest that they have provided some guidelines for our out-of-control drug-addicted citizens. I would suggest that I could view it every single day and it would evoke no emotions from me whatsoever.
What actually bothers me is that it seems like a publicity stunt. Were they INVITING someone (or the ACLU) to make a fuss so that they could stand up for themselves - on the news, perhaps, or the newspaper, at least? The slanderous "documentary" about our county was released online on July 1st - perhaps this is a way our "good citizens" are trying to be noticed. I can't help but think that there were lots of other places that the monument could have been seen by more people.
You covered it pretty well. However the political climate was clearly different when this was written. America was a christian majority country at that time and had to power to make and enforce the laws. There was no aclu and no outside influence running our schools. Take a look at the old universities, they were mostly started and funded by churches. The schools of that day were not run and funded by government. Often the schools used the bible to learn to read because books were difficult to come by. America was indeed founded on christian principles and the church was a powerful force in our country for the good of the whole.

Since then things have deteriorated, the enemy is in the sheep pen. Even that part was well planned...
Dave P

Nicholasville, KY

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#10
Jul 10, 2013
 
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
You think the Constitution of a country is sacrosanct but the God's written word is open to personal interpretation.
Is the truth of man made laws more important than God's.
Why can't somebody interpret the constitution the way they want to?
This thread isn't about catholicism so I will not discuss it here.
You jump to very big conclusions saying what I believe of constitutional interpretation. Unlike Glenn Beck or any other Tea Party person out there, I do not believe the US Constitution to be divinely inspired, nor above the need to be interpreted.

Original intent- isn't that the goal?
Mike Peterson

United States

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#11
Jul 10, 2013
 
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
This thread isn't about catholicism so I will not discuss it here.
You jump to very big conclusions saying what I believe of constitutional interpretation. Unlike Glenn Beck or any other Tea Party person out there, I do not believe the US Constitution to be divinely inspired, nor above the need to be interpreted.
Original intent- isn't that the goal?
Exactly. The founding fathers set up a Supreme Court to interpret the Constitution (laws)

Jesus left us Church to interpret his words.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#12
Jul 10, 2013
 
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly. The founding fathers set up a Supreme Court to interpret the Constitution (laws)
Jesus left us Church to interpret his words.
And of course the church is the catholic church-lol. I bet you are not authorized to interpret them though, except when it applies to us.

Since: Jul 12

Pineville, WV

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#13
Jul 10, 2013
 
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
You covered it pretty well. However the political climate was clearly different when this was written. America was a christian majority country at that time and had to power to make and enforce the laws. There was no aclu and no outside influence running our schools. Take a look at the old universities, they were mostly started and funded by churches. The schools of that day were not run and funded by government. Often the schools used the bible to learn to read because books were difficult to come by. America was indeed founded on christian principles and the church was a powerful force in our country for the good of the whole.
Since then things have deteriorated, the enemy is in the sheep pen. Even that part was well planned...
I want to change your attitude about our future. Our world is not deteriorating - our world is changing. You need to expect ANYTHING - not just pending doom. You need to coach your subjects to remain calm and keep a hopeful attitude - you seem anxious about the world falling all to pieces around you. You seem to be expecting something just awful - why not anticipate that you can handle whatever is happening - and encourage people to be hopeful about their future. You too, Bobby. Chin up! Its nothing you can't handle.
Mike Peterson

United States

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#14
Jul 11, 2013
 

Judged:

1

Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
And of course the church is the catholic church-lol. I bet you are not authorized to interpret them though, except when it applies to us.
You are not authorized either. The Bible does not authorize you.

What other Church was there for 1520 years. The Church decided what scriptures were the written words of God. They were interpreted by the authors when they were written. The first Church members knew exactly what they meant and if they didn't could ask the author. They were alive.

The NT are not poems where everybody gets a different meaning from them.
Dave P

Nicholasville, KY

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#15
Jul 11, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

Awesome_Steve_Monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
I want to change your attitude about our future. Our world is not deteriorating - our world is changing. You need to expect ANYTHING - not just pending doom. You need to coach your subjects to remain calm and keep a hopeful attitude - you seem anxious about the world falling all to pieces around you. You seem to be expecting something just awful - why not anticipate that you can handle whatever is happening - and encourage people to be hopeful about their future. You too, Bobby. Chin up! Its nothing you can't handle.
The Bible does not have a hopeful future for this planet ASM. We're not anxious- we truly believe the world is and will fall to pieces, or burn to a crisp to be more specific. We see evil men getting worse and more wicked. We see people more and more dishonoring their parents. We see parents who hate their children. We see people who's only goal is pleasure and gratification, no matter the cost. Fewer and fewer godly people in the world.

Our hope is heaven, not sunshine and lollipops here.

Since: Jul 12

Pineville, WV

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#16
Jul 11, 2013
 
Christianity is in decline - not the world. Christianity is less and less able to control the people - it is being rejected by modern people who have become empowered with liberty - it is rejected by its own supporters so they can be successful within society - it is reaching the end of its usefulness. Religion becomes an enemy of the government when it stops serving it's purpose: crowd control.

You perceive that our society is dying - I perceive that our society is evolving. You are inciting panic and I want to project a calm. Our lives are not going to end! They are going to change. Change does not = chaos and horror. That's your imagination.

Why are you so bothered by people acting against Christianity's teachings? You think it is the Devil at work - I think it is the natural actions of people who have rejected your teachings. You think these "sinners" are going to destroy the world - I think these "sinners" are re-thinking and re-organizing society. Relax, accept each new challenge, remain faithful and dependent on yourself, and you will ride out the storm.

Protect yourself and your lifestyle - take advantage of your current opportunities since you should not be so confident that you will always have so many. Be thoughtful and confident - don't be so upset. Our "new" lives, here in this life in this world, may not be so bad. Become hopeful!
Dave P

Nicholasville, KY

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#17
Jul 11, 2013
 
The world is not in decline-haven't you been paying attention? You started a thread about economic collapse. What do you think happens if that comes to pass?

1- chaos. 2- guns and tanks. 3- bondage if not death. The "NWO" so to speak, Alex Jones.

Societies evolve, then die. Greece, Rome anyone?

In Christian beliefs ASM rejection of Christianity is one of the final steps to the end of the world as we know it (HATE THAT SONG). Unless you understand where Christians believe we are headed, and the theology of what happens going there, you cannot understand how we feel. For you to tell us to be hopeful, happy, relax, and accept the challenge- that goes against who we are and what we believe.

You're telling us to-
Reject our beliefs, it's a fairy tale;
think all is well.

PS- really, what do you see society "evolving" into? From here, it looks like decay, not growth.

Since: Jul 12

Pineville, WV

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#18
Jul 11, 2013
 
Dave P wrote:
The world is not in decline-haven't you been paying attention? You started a thread about economic collapse. What do you think happens if that comes to pass?
1- chaos. 2- guns and tanks. 3- bondage if not death. The "NWO" so to speak, Alex Jones.
Societies evolve, then die. Greece, Rome anyone?
In Christian beliefs ASM rejection of Christianity is one of the final steps to the end of the world as we know it (HATE THAT SONG). Unless you understand where Christians believe we are headed, and the theology of what happens going there, you cannot understand how we feel. For you to tell us to be hopeful, happy, relax, and accept the challenge- that goes against who we are and what we believe.
You're telling us to-
Reject our beliefs, it's a fairy tale;
think all is well.
PS- really, what do you see society "evolving" into? From here, it looks like decay, not growth.
I am suggesting that you accept the economic collapse and the changes that it brings. I am suggesting that the chaos that you refer to is the actions and re-actions of our PEOPLE - we need to encourage everyone we know to control themselves and do not submit to chaos. The guns and tanks come to control the people - guns and tanks will not be necessary if we are able to control ourselves. Economic collapse doesn't cause war, outraged people do. People who are outraged that the economy collapsed. I say: control your rage - no guns or tanks necessary. Bondage and death are to be feared from our citizens, not our government.

Mankind does not evolve and die - it evolves and lives. We're still around, aren't we? "Ways of living" die - or do they just change? Prepare to change your "way of living" and do not allow our society to die when it actually just needs to change.

I am not suggesting that you reject the predictions of the Bible - I am suggesting that you are drawing your own conclusions when you assess that these predictions refer to HERE and NOW. How many people throughout history have thought this? How many were correct? How do you know that the predictions do not refer to mankind's distant future? Christians have always been wrong about predicting it before now, but it does not prevent them from predicting it again. How have you assessed that this is the Apocalypse or the time of Christ's return when this is really an economic collapse? We are living out the logical results of what PEOPLE have previously caused - God or the Devil had nothing to do with it - people created our circumstances.

I think we, the people, can handle it. Sit tight. Remain calm. Expect change.

No need to reject your religious beliefs - hang on to them, you will need them.
pearl

Salt Lake City, UT

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#19
Jul 11, 2013
 
Dave P wrote:
The world is not in decline-haven't you been paying attention? You started a thread about economic collapse. What do you think happens if that comes to pass?
1- chaos. 2- guns and tanks. 3- bondage if not death. The "NWO" so to speak, Alex Jones.
Societies evolve, then die. Greece, Rome anyone?
In Christian beliefs ASM rejection of Christianity is one of the final steps to the end of the world as we know it (HATE THAT SONG). Unless you understand where Christians believe we are headed, and the theology of what happens going there, you cannot understand how we feel. For you to tell us to be hopeful, happy, relax, and accept the challenge- that goes against who we are and what we believe.
You're telling us to-
Reject our beliefs, it's a fairy tale;
think all is well.
PS- really, what do you see society "evolving" into? From here, it looks like decay, not growth.
Yes, we all understand that it is scary for Christians to walk in another mans shoes, that is why you have been shown patience. We also see that you think it's okie dokie for others to reject their beliefs because of your fears.
Dave P

Nicholasville, KY

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#20
Jul 11, 2013
 
Weimar Republic. Aftermath.

Tell me when this thread is updated: (Registration is not required)

Add to my Tracker Send me an email

Showing posts 1 - 20 of65
< prev page
|
Go to last page| Jump to page:
Type in your comments below
Name
(appears on your post)
Comments
Characters left: 4000

Please note by clicking on "Post Comment" you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

•••
•••
•••
•••

Bassett Jobs

•••
Enter and win $5000
•••
•••

Bassett People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

•••

Bassett News, Events & Info

Click for news, events and info in Bassett
•••

Personal Finance

Mortgages [ See current mortgage rates ]
•••