where did Jesus say there would be a ...

where did Jesus say there would be a bible

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Tim

Axton, VA

#1 May 8, 2014
The big statement always from Mike and other Catholics is -“where did Jesus say there would be a bible”

Jesus often pointed to scripture yet God never provided Israel with a list of Old Testament books. Mike’s argument is self-refuting.

Notice also when I ask Mike what a certain passage meant, he totally ignored that. Why? Because Mike can READ and determine what something means. Am I saying all of the bible is easy to understand? Nope. Even in Jesus’ day, most missed the prophesies about Jesus and other things that were WRITTEN for them by the prophets.

When confronting Satan, Jesus said – IT IS WRITTEN. Odd He would say such when God never provided Israel with a list of Old Testament books. Jesus, according to Catholics teaching, should have pointed Satan and others to a Pope or some institution who could better explain what was written in the scrolls. Jesus quoted from over 20 different Old Testament books not once hinting of Popes and so-called fathers. Jesus often cited Old Testament scriptures, implying that people need to understand how God has been working down through history. Even in Jesus’ days, the Pharisees and Sadducees, using the same Hebrew scriptures, could not agree on angels or the resurrection of the body yet Jesus often pointed people to the very same Hebrew scriptures.

2 Timothy 3:6 says -"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." Before Mike jumps in saying this was a reference to the Old Testament. I agree because that’s all Timothy had known from childhood. Again, God never provided Israel with a list of Old Testament books yet Paul instructs Timothy in them. Moreover, was not Paul and other epistle writers “inspired” as they were moved of God thus making their epistles God-breathed and for our learning?

2 Peter 1:21 - "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."

Isaiah 40:8 -"The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever."

Matthew 4:4 - "But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."

Job 23:12?- "Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food."

1 Peter 2:2 - "As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:"

Psalm 119:105 - "Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path."

Psalm 119:130 - "The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple."

Psalm 119:9, 11 - Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word. 11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee."

Ephesians 6:17 - "And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:"

1 John 5:13 - "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God."

John 5:39 - "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Acts 17:11 - "These [the Bereans] were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

John 20:31 - "But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name."

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#2 May 8, 2014
Tim wrote:
The big statement always from Mike and other Catholics is -“where did Jesus say there would be a bible”
Jesus often pointed to scripture yet God never provided Israel with a list of Old Testament books. Mike’s argument is self-refuting.
Notice also when I ask Mike what a certain passage meant, he totally ignored that. Why? Because Mike can READ and determine what something means. Am I saying all of the bible is easy to understand? Nope. Even in Jesus’ day, most missed the prophesies about Jesus and other things that were WRITTEN for them by the prophets.
When confronting Satan, Jesus said – IT IS WRITTEN. Odd He would say such when God never provided Israel with a list of Old Testament books. Jesus, according to Catholics teaching, should have pointed Satan and others to a Pope or some institution who could better explain what was written in the scrolls. Jesus quoted from over 20 different Old Testament books not once hinting of Popes and so-called fathers. Jesus often cited Old Testament scriptures, implying that people need to understand how God has been working down through history. Even in Jesus’ days, the Pharisees and Sadducees, using the same Hebrew scriptures, could not agree on angels or the resurrection of the body yet Jesus often pointed people to the very same Hebrew scriptures.
2 Timothy 3:6 says -"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." Before Mike jumps in saying this was a reference to the Old Testament. I agree because that’s all Timothy had known from childhood. Again, God never provided Israel with a list of Old Testament books yet Paul instructs Timothy in them. Moreover, was not Paul and other epistle writers “inspired” as they were moved of God thus making their epistles God-breathed and for our learning?
2 Peter 1:21 - "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."
Isaiah 40:8 -"The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever."
Matthew 4:4 - "But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."
Job 23:12?- "Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food."
1 Peter 2:2 - "As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:"
Psalm 119:105 - "Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path."
Psalm 119:130 - "The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple."
Psalm 119:9, 11 - Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word. 11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee."
Ephesians 6:17 - "And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:"
1 John 5:13 - "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God."
John 5:39 - "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
Acts 17:11 - "These [the Bereans] were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
John 20:31 - "But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name."
Jesus never told anybody to write anything. You mention word many times but Jesus only spoke, he did not write one thing except something in the mud with his spit.
The NT and the Bible is the work of the Catholic Church guided by the HS. A group of Catholic leaders got together and voted on what would be in the Bible in AD 390.
Tim

Axton, VA

#3 May 9, 2014
Mike_Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus never told anybody to write anything. You mention word many times but Jesus only spoke, he did not write one thing except something in the mud with his spit.
The NT and the Bible is the work of the Catholic Church guided by the HS. A group of Catholic leaders got together and voted on what would be in the Bible in AD 390.
Once more, Mike does not answer. I cannot take you seriously anymore. Also, there is much can be said of your statement above. You cite things, while leaving out many other things.

If the Roman Catholic church gave the world the Bible in 397 AD, then why did many different versions of canons continue to circulate long afterwards?

If the Roman Catholic church gave us the Bible, why were the two synods of Hippo (393 AD) and Carthage,(397 AD) African councils, and not initiatives of Rome?

Since the synod Carthage in 393 AD stated, "But let Church beyond sea (Rome) be consulted about confirming this canon", does this not prove that Rome had no direct input or initiative in determining the canon.

Since the two synods of Hippo (393 AD) and Carthage,(397 AD) were under the control of what would later become the "orthodox church", how can the Roman Catholic church claim they determined the Canon? Would not such a claim be more naturally due the Eastern Orthodox church?

If the Catholic church, "by her own inherent God given power and authority" gave the world the Bible, why did she not get it right the first time? Why did the Roman Catholic church wait until 1546 AD in the Council of Trent, to officially add the Apocrypha to the Canon?

Both Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox church leaders make the identical claim that they gave the world the Bible. If both the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches make the same claim they gave the world the Bible, why do they have different books in each of their Bibles?

Whose "church authority" shall we believe? Whose tradition is the one we should follow?
Tim

Axton, VA

#4 May 9, 2014
If the Roman Catholic church gave the world the Bible, then why did Rome reject the inspiration of James and Hebrews, then later accept it?

Provide a single example of where inspired apostolic "oral revelation" (tradition) differed from "written" (scripture)?

If you are not permitted to engage in private interpretation of the Bible, how do you know which "apostolic tradition" is correct between the Roman Catholic and the Orthodox churches, both teach their organization alone can interpret scripture correctly.

Tertullian and Jerome gave a list of oral traditions that were not found in the Bible.(Tertullian, The crown or De Corona, ch 3-4),(Jerome, Dialogue Against the Luciferians, 8) Tertullian said of these practices that "without any written instrument, we maintain on the ground of tradition alone".

These include, baptizing by immersion three times, giving the one baptized a "drink of milk and honey" then forbidding the person from taking a bath for a week, kneeling in Sunday mass was forbidden, and the sign of the cross was to be made on the forehead.

Jerome, echoing Tertullian, said that these "observances of the Churches, which are due to tradition, have acquired the authority of the written law".

Why does the Catholic church not immerse three time and allow kneeling?

Why do both the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches not keep any of these traditions, with the exception of thrice immersion by the Orthodox?

Why do Roman Catholic churches today have knelling rails in front of every pew? Hmm.

If the "apostolic tradition" was to make the sign of the cross on the forehead, why do both Orthodox and Catholic churches change this to the current practice of the sign on the chest and head?

If extra-biblical oral tradition is to be followed, then why don't the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches practice all of these things?

Want more, Mike? Surely you have read of the contradictions made by Popes.

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#5 May 9, 2014
Tim wrote:
If the Roman Catholic church gave the world the Bible, then why did Rome reject the inspiration of James and Hebrews, then later accept it?
Provide a single example of where inspired apostolic "oral revelation" (tradition) differed from "written" (scripture)?
If you are not permitted to engage in private interpretation of the Bible, how do you know which "apostolic tradition" is correct between the Roman Catholic and the Orthodox churches, both teach their organization alone can interpret scripture correctly.
Tertullian and Jerome gave a list of oral traditions that were not found in the Bible.(Tertullian, The crown or De Corona, ch 3-4),(Jerome, Dialogue Against the Luciferians, 8) Tertullian said of these practices that "without any written instrument, we maintain on the ground of tradition alone".
These include, baptizing by immersion three times, giving the one baptized a "drink of milk and honey" then forbidding the person from taking a bath for a week, kneeling in Sunday mass was forbidden, and the sign of the cross was to be made on the forehead.
Jerome, echoing Tertullian, said that these "observances of the Churches, which are due to tradition, have acquired the authority of the written law".
Why does the Catholic church not immerse three time and allow kneeling?
Why do both the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches not keep any of these traditions, with the exception of thrice immersion by the Orthodox?
Why do Roman Catholic churches today have knelling rails in front of every pew? Hmm.
If the "apostolic tradition" was to make the sign of the cross on the forehead, why do both Orthodox and Catholic churches change this to the current practice of the sign on the chest and head?
If extra-biblical oral tradition is to be followed, then why don't the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches practice all of these things?
Want more, Mike? Surely you have read of the contradictions made by Popes.
Where did you get this stuff?

You did not mention one thing where any Pope differed in the area of faith and morals.

What did Jesus say. Whoever hears his Church hears Jesus. Whatever you bind or loosen on Earth is bound and loosened in heaven. Whatever sins you forgive or not the same is done in heaven.

What men do you listen to on earth? Who do you tell your sins to on Earth?

Jesus did not mention the Bible one time or even told anybody to write anything. He left a Church.. The Church created the Bible.

You worship a Catholic book . A book..... A Catholic book.

We would have a comletely nutty and cruel God to give a book to be in charge and we can interpret it anyway we want. That is of course if we could read when only 10% of the people could read for 1500 years.

You really believe you have special gift to read one of 30,000 translations in the World today, of a book created by the Catholic Church and yet you know what it means 1600 years later.

A Book . You think God left a book in charge. Bizarre. Completely Bizarre.
Prophet of Jesus Christ

Helotes, TX

#6 May 10, 2014
Mike_Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus never told anybody to write anything. You mention word many times but Jesus only spoke, he did not write one thing except something in the mud with his spit.
The NT and the Bible is the work of the Catholic Church guided by the HS. A group of Catholic leaders got together and voted on what would be in the Bible in AD 390.
There is 1 time Jesus did tell someone to write something.

It was the book of Revelation.
Prophet of Jesus Christ

Helotes, TX

#7 May 10, 2014
Mike, you and Tim are idiots.

And do not know Jesus.

Did you know that?

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#8 May 10, 2014
Prophet of Jesus Christ wrote:
Mike, you and Tim are idiots.
And do not know Jesus.
Did you know that?
So you think God would be stupid enough to leave a book in charge?

How idiotic is that. A book. You worship a book too.
Prophet of Jesus Christ

Helotes, TX

#9 May 11, 2014
Mike_Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
So you think God would be stupid enough to leave a book in charge?
How idiotic is that. A book. You worship a book too.
Is this you have said about me true because "you said so??
Here again you are telling more lies.

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#10 May 11, 2014
Prophet of Jesus Christ wrote:
<quoted text>Is this you have said about me true because "you said so??
Here again you are telling more lies.
I would guess you will be 14 this year
Prophet of Jesus Christ

Helotes, TX

#11 May 11, 2014
Mike_Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
I would guess you will be 14 this year
That would be just alright with me.

You pray and ask God to make this come to pass.

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#12 May 12, 2014
Prophet of Jesus Christ wrote:
<quoted text>
There is 1 time Jesus did tell someone to write something.
It was the book of Revelation.
An angel send from God. Jesus while on Earth did say to write anything.
bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#13 May 12, 2014
Mike_Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Where did you get this stuff?
You did not mention one thing where any Pope differed in the area of faith and morals.
What did Jesus say. Whoever hears his Church hears Jesus. Whatever you bind or loosen on Earth is bound and loosened in heaven. Whatever sins you forgive or not the same is done in heaven.
What men do you listen to on earth? Who do you tell your sins to on Earth?
Jesus did not mention the Bible one time or even told anybody to write anything. He left a Church.. The Church created the Bible.
You worship a Catholic book . A book..... A Catholic book.
We would have a comletely nutty and cruel God to give a book to be in charge and we can interpret it anyway we want. That is of course if we could read when only 10% of the people could read for 1500 years.
You really believe you have special gift to read one of 30,000 translations in the World today, of a book created by the Catholic Church and yet you know what it means 1600 years later.
A Book . You think God left a book in charge. Bizarre. Completely Bizarre.
The hardline church of Christ do indeed worship a book. What is bizzarre is that catholics worship their tradition-a different book,a history book. In other words they worship a church organized by men for their own edification.
Both of you deny that Jesus is able to teach the individual through his Spirit. Jesus did not send a book or a church on the day of Pentecost but rather he sent his Spirit. Anything a man claims he heard from the Spirit must be supported by scripture.
Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. Luke 24
1 cor 212 and 214
God is still alive, how do I know? Because he lives in my heart.
bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#14 May 12, 2014
If Catholics were to accept the indwelling of the individual indwelling of the Holy Spirit, they would have to deny the ruling catholic hierarchy.

hi·er·ar·chy
&#712;h&#299;(&#60 1;)&#716;rärk&#275;/
noun
noun: hierarchy; plural noun: hierarchies

a system or organization in which people or groups are ranked one above the other according to status or authority.
Prophet of Jesus Christ

Helotes, TX

#15 May 12, 2014
bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
The hardline church of Christ do indeed worship a book. What is bizzarre is that catholics worship their tradition-a different book,a history book. In other words they worship a church organized by men for their own edification.
Both of you deny that Jesus is able to teach the individual through his Spirit. Jesus did not send a book or a church on the day of Pentecost but rather he sent his Spirit. Anything a man claims he heard from the Spirit must be supported by scripture.
Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. Luke 24
1 cor 212 and 214
God is still alive, how do I know? Because he lives in my heart.
Matthew, Chapter 10, 33:
But whosoever shall deny me before men,
him will I also deny before my Father
which is in heaven.

Bobby,

Is the man Jesus, your God? Yes or no?
bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#16 May 12, 2014
Prophet of Jesus Christ wrote:
<quoted text>
Matthew, Chapter 10, 33:
But whosoever shall deny me before men,
him will I also deny before my Father
which is in heaven.
Bobby,
Is the man Jesus, your God? Yes or no?
This will be my only reply to you unless you change your tactics and talk with substance.

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#17 May 12, 2014
bobby wrote:
<quoted text>This will be my only reply to you unless you change your tactics and talk with substance.
God talks to him and told him to post on Topix this way. Been doing it for a while.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#18 May 12, 2014
Mike_Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Where did you get this stuff?
You did not mention one thing where any Pope differed in the area of faith and morals.
What did Jesus say. Whoever hears his Church hears Jesus. Whatever you bind or loosen on Earth is bound and loosened in heaven. Whatever sins you forgive or not the same is done in heaven.
What men do you listen to on earth? Who do you tell your sins to on Earth?
Jesus did not mention the Bible one time or even told anybody to write anything. He left a Church.. The Church created the Bible.
You worship a Catholic book . A book..... A Catholic book.
We would have a comletely nutty and cruel God to give a book to be in charge and we can interpret it anyway we want. That is of course if we could read when only 10% of the people could read for 1500 years.
You really believe you have special gift to read one of 30,000 translations in the World today, of a book created by the Catholic Church and yet you know what it means 1600 years later.
A Book . You think God left a book in charge. Bizarre. Completely Bizarre.
The Roman Catholic church created the bible and did not put their very own name in it and said in many places what you practice as a catholic as sinful... Now there is a great claim. We wrote it but dont follow it.... LOL

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#19 May 12, 2014
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>The Roman Catholic church created the bible and did not put their very own name in it and said in many places what you practice as a catholic as sinful... Now there is a great claim. We wrote it but dont follow it.... LOL
According to your private interpretation of a Catholic book 1600 years later

You really think you have greater insight than those like St Ignatuis who was taught the Apostle John personally.

You really have the guts to say we have an almighty God ,capable of anything, yet but after Jesus ascended he was going to leave a book in charge of the way to salvation.

A book? Nobody could read for 1500 years and there was no printing press for 1400 years but God's great idea was to leave us a book that anybody could interpret for themselves.

A Book????

Nowhere in that that book called the Bible does it say that. Jesus left us Church to teach us until the end of ages. It says so in that book.

You worship ink on paper. One of 30,000 translations in the world today.

How is that working out for you protesters? Jesus's Church is 2000 years old and will never fail. He promised it will be here when he returns.

A book. Come on.... If the book could teach why are there 40,000 different protestant groups out there?

The man made invention of Sola Scriptura is the failed experiment of Luther.
bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#20 May 12, 2014
Mike_Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
According to your private interpretation of a Catholic book 1600 years later
You really think you have greater insight than those like St Ignatuis who was taught the Apostle John personally.
You really have the guts to say we have an almighty God ,capable of anything, yet but after Jesus ascended he was going to leave a book in charge of the way to salvation.
A book? Nobody could read for 1500 years and there was no printing press for 1400 years but God's great idea was to leave us a book that anybody could interpret for themselves.
A Book????
Nowhere in that that book called the Bible does it say that. Jesus left us Church to teach us until the end of ages. It says so in that book.
You worship ink on paper. One of 30,000 translations in the world today.
How is that working out for you protesters? Jesus's Church is 2000 years old and will never fail. He promised it will be here when he returns.
A book. Come on.... If the book could teach why are there 40,000 different protestant groups out there?
The man made invention of Sola Scriptura is the failed experiment of Luther.
Both of you deny Holy Spirit indwelling and depend a book. The Catholics depend on a history book and the church of Christ depends on scripture only. I prefer scripture over tradition but both of you are missing the most important element which is a living relationship "Christ in us our hope of glory".

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