William

Birmingham, AL

#41 Apr 19, 2013
"Not that Paul never taught any truth - just that he is not one to trust to the level of truth as Peter, or any of the other true apostles."

Romans 2:16

In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to MY GOSPEL.

Not what was given to Peter. So, it looks like you're wrong, yet again.
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#42 Apr 19, 2013
The things that people were to get from the covenant were the law written in their hearts, be Gods own people, forgiveness of sin, and a new Spirit within them. His teachings in the gospels prepared all for this, and taught us how to live life in the kingdom.

His commission to go and make disciples was given after His resurrection. The Spirit was not sent to dwell within us until Pentecost, when Peter used the keys of the kingdom Christ had given him. Peter proclaimed how man can receive forgiveness of sin and the indwelling Spirit. These things had not been offered to man until this point. I mean a universal forgiveness, not to an individual situation. I realize Jesus had forgiven sins before. But this is on a u universal scale, where whosoever will could receive it. Same goes for the Spirit.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#43 Apr 19, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
Dave P: " The terms and conditions of the new covenant weren't given until after the resurrection of Christ. "
Have to beg to differ somewhat on that statement. The conditions of the covenant were given by the one who died, before he died. Same as making a will before you die, that goes into effect after you die, for those who are to inherit things in the will/covenant. Those things are found largely in the gospels and expended upon in the other books.
I agree...
Walkinginlove

Danville, VA

#44 Apr 19, 2013
THUD CRASH BOOM, argh please someone help me up! ;)

Bobby and Dave agreeing surely the last sign before the return of the Lord! ;-))

Sorry to many hours worked this week and not enough sleep.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#45 Apr 19, 2013
William wrote:
"Not that Paul never taught any truth - just that he is not one to trust to the level of truth as Peter, or any of the other true apostles."
Romans 2:16
In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to MY GOSPEL.
Not what was given to Peter. So, it looks like you're wrong, yet again.
If you do an intensive study from Scripture it's a given that the gospel is of God - Master YHWH. God sent His only begotten to give it to us. Luke was a friend of Paul and even Luke acknowledges the matter of what Christians are to be instructed in are the instructions of Jesus Christ - else why the account?*Luke 1:5
Rather than this passage above being about what was reveiled to Paul alone - and not Peter or the rest of the apostles - you are treading on ground that even Paul would not tread so heavily upon.
No, if Jesus Christ is true and the truth and the life and the light that was manifest from God - to take Paul's words to the exclusion of what Jesus taught will come to no good end on the Day of the LORD.
One verse of Paul
VS
Hundreds of words from the Father that Jesus testified true by the Holy Scriptures, miracles, His life, teaching, and finally His death buriel and resurrection from the dead as the Firstfruits.
You'd do well for yourself to not promote untruths. But as God said, His word will not return to Him void for that which He gave and sent it. Satan is also quite handy and misrepresenting His words. Who is your father?
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#46 Apr 19, 2013
Walkinginlove wrote:
THUD CRASH BOOM, argh please someone help me up! ;)
Bobby and Dave agreeing surely the last sign before the return of the Lord! ;-))
Sorry to many hours worked this week and not enough sleep.
Oh, you heard me fall off of my chair when Bobby agreed?;-)

In all seriousness though, we do need to be disciples as Jesus constantly and from the beginning of His ministry said is necessary. We have never seen Him with our eyes, but our hearts should be present and willing students to learn from His every word:-)

What I'd encourage about Paul, is to look back in Acts and see what he claims Jesus told him very near his conversion. Did Paul stick with what His statement was? Or did Paul possibly go beyond that? Not that I believe this to the maximum conclusion, but if one looks at the original revelations of Joseph Smith Jr., you will see why some followers left his side and branded him a false prophet because he went beyond what he'd told others previously, and it was telling on his ministry and claims. If Josephs history is an indicator of human failings, perhaps it was similar for Paul?

Shoe seems to fit....
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#48 Apr 19, 2013
William wrote:
Galatians 2:1-2 (KJV)
1 Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also.
2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them THAT gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.
Peter, James, and John did not know what Paul was preaching. He had to explain it to them.
Galatians 2:7-9 (KJV)
7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)
9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
Peter, James, and John after hearing of Paul's gospel and ministry, confined their ministry to believing Israel and let Paul go to the heathen.
They never left Judea. It is Paul, with the gospel of the grace of God, who went on into western Asia and Europe. Peter, James, and John never preached Paul's gospel to the circumcision, and Paul never preached the Acts 2 exhortation to heathen gentiles.
The events of Galatians 2 render all man-made churches, including the RCC, null and void.
What about the other 9 apostles ? You are acting like they never existed. Dont you think they were teaching too? Just because their writings were never found you cannot dismiss them. They had as much authority as any but Peter, who Jesus gave the Keys and the authority to.

That's why sola scriptura was invented a disgruntled priest. It is not from Jesus.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#50 Apr 20, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
What about the other 9 apostles ? You are acting like they never existed. Dont you think they were teaching too? Just because their writings were never found you cannot dismiss them. They had as much authority as any but Peter, who Jesus gave the Keys and the authority to.
That's why sola scriptura was invented a disgruntled priest. It is not from Jesus.
Did I miss this verse that Jesus gave the authority over the Church to a succession of 'Peter's'? I recall His saying the key was given to Peter. The key to open the gate to the kingdom of God was surely taught and revealed by Peter (Acts 2:38,39; Acts 3:22,23).

When Jesus told Satan 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God', wouldn't you say that kind of covers all the words of God as we have in the Bible?
William

Birmingham, AL

#51 Apr 20, 2013
"What about the other 9 apostles? You are acting like they never existed."

They confined their ministry to the circumcision. Believing Israel. Paul went on to the uncircumcision. To Jew and gentile alike.

Why isn't Paul the first pope then? He actually DID make it to Rome, you know.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#53 Apr 20, 2013
William wrote:
"What about the other 9 apostles? You are acting like they never existed."
They confined their ministry to the circumcision. Believing Israel. Paul went on to the uncircumcision. To Jew and gentile alike.
Why isn't Paul the first pope then? He actually DID make it to Rome, you know.
St Thomas was in India. Hmmmmm not many Jews there.

Paul is not the first Pope because Jesus said so.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#54 Apr 20, 2013
The faith grew ten times more to the East where Peter went than to the West, where Paul went... The greatest Jewish numbers outside Israel were in Babylon and Greece, and likely some in India and even Africa..

Scriptures say Peter and Paul both preached to Jews and Genitles. If Paul was to take the gospel to the Gentiles, why did he spend so much time with the Jews which you claim he didn't go to????

Just askin'
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#55 Apr 20, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
Did I miss this verse that Jesus gave the authority over the Church to a succession of 'Peter's'? I recall His saying the key was given to Peter. The key to open the gate to the kingdom of God was surely taught and revealed by Peter (Acts 2:38,39; Acts 3:22,23).
When Jesus told Satan 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God', wouldn't you say that kind of covers all the words of God as we have in the Bible?
Throughout history God had men in charge on Earth with a succession by the laying on hands. Moses, David etc.

He wasn't going to put Peter in charge until the Romans crucified in Rome and then that's it, everybody for themselves. Peter and Paul died 30 years before the last scripture that was eventually going to make the Bible was written. We were on our 3rd Pope when St John was alive.

All of the words of God were not written done in the Bible. Where does it say that. You can read the NT in about 12-14 hours. The Apostles were with Jesus for 3 years.

The scriptures say that everything was not written down. There would not be enough books in the world to hold what Jesus did

Do you believe that?
William

Albertville, AL

#56 Apr 20, 2013
Jesus made him the first "pope?"

Must be in one of those 666 translations that Barnsweb claims to read, somewhere.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#57 Apr 20, 2013
We have ample witness to the doctrine of Christ, but where in it do we find Him saying there will be a succession of Popes? or Pope at all? What on earth is up with 'Pope'? I hear Jesus, but where does the Scipture guide us about a 'Pope'?

"This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear Him!" (Matt. 17:5)
Jeremiah 7: "Obey My voice, and I will be your God, and you shall be My people. And walk in all the ways that I have commanded you. Yet they did not obey or incline their ear, but followed the counsels and dictates of their evil hearts, and went backwards and not forward."
Jesus commissioned His disciples to "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." (Matt. 28:19-20) As He said to Nicodemus, "And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen; that they have been done in God."
Matt. 11: 27-29; "All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him. Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light."
As John said in one of his letters (2 John 6-10):
"This is the commandment, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it. For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an anti-Christ. Look to yourselves, that you do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward. Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him, for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds."
So what do the gospel accounts say is His doctrine? Is the doctrine of Christ that He came in the flesh, or is the doctrine of Christ also what He taught? Matthew 7:28 is a comment made by the people who heard Jesus immediately after His teaching of building our life upon hearing and doing what He said. This record says: "And so it was, when Jesus had ended these saying, that the people were astonished at His teaching (KJV uses 'doctrine'), for He taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes." Matthew 22:33, just after His saying 'God is not the God of the dead, but of the living' is 'And when the multitudes heard this, they were astonished at His teaching (KJV uses 'doctrine'). John 17 is a good focused study about 'the word' which Jesus gave and His disciples kept; 6-24:
"I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You. For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me.
I John 3:24; "Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit He has given us."
I John 4:6; "We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error."
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#58 Apr 20, 2013
William wrote:
Jesus made him the first "pope?"
Must be in one of those 666 translations that Barnsweb claims to read, somewhere.
Nope, Pope isn't even in the AENT or complete Jewish Bible - sorry;-)

For that matter, I don't recall seeing such a passage in my Catholic version of the Bible!:-)
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#59 Apr 20, 2013
Prophet of Jesus Christ wrote:
<quoted text>
Will you stake your Soul and your life and the blessings your family has from God on everything you have said about me is the truth?
A. yes
B. no
I want God to see if you will honor and prove your own words.
If you refuse to honor your own words this means you told lies about me and made false accusations about me. God will punish you for this.
You do love circular arguments, don't you?

If I'm in Christ, and He is my Redeemer and Wonderful Councilor, that is where I'll put my trust - in Him and His word that lead to eternal life. What really matters is that God upholds His word.

As I said before - get some help.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#60 Apr 20, 2013
Prophet of Jesus Christ wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you accept me as a prophet of God?
A. Yes
B. No
I cannot without reason.

What reason do you give me?

Threats are not a reason.

Truth is a reason.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#62 Apr 20, 2013
You seem to speak without reason or cause, except to accuse someone, so that leads me to but one conclusion - and you know what that is.

Btw, only God is true and cannot lie.
nobody

Cleveland, GA

#63 Apr 20, 2013
Prophet of Jesus Christ wrote:
<quoted text>
Everyone says this or that...so what. PROVE IT.
Will you stake your Soul and your life and the blessings your family has from God on everything you have said about me is the truth?
A. yes
B. no
I want God to see if you will honor and prove your own words.
If you refuse to honor your own words this means you told lies about me and made false accusations about me. God will punish you for this.
Have you ever thought about the possibility of God punishing you for what you are saying? Whether you are a atheist, kid, or whatever no one takes you seriously as a prophet because you are not serious. What you are joking about is serious however and God will not be mocked, you are playing with fire whether you know it or not. It is your soul and God has a way of bringing people to their knees if He so chooses, it is not fun.
nobody

Cleveland, GA

#64 Apr 20, 2013
What I am saying is this is something no one should be joking about and if you had any knowledge of God at all you would not say what you are. Nevertheless ignorance can be deadly. Don't push the patience, mercy,and grace of God to far.

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