Roman Catholic Sproul

Chicago, IL

#41 Oct 25, 2013
Mike_Peterson wrote:
I loved all my history classes at the state university. The prof for my Western Civ class was a Jew. This evangelical dude sat on the front row and tried to change what he and book said.
His expertise was the Catacombs. Had written multiple books on them.
I don't get your point. What is unusual about a Pharisee being taught under a Jew. I would expect no less.
Barnsweb

Louisville, OH

#42 Oct 26, 2013
Dave P wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L ist_of_heresies_in_Catholicism
Anyone care to agree with their assessments?
Marcion was not mentioned as heresy by the CC? Wiki has some information on it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcion

Paul: Apostle to the heretics... starting with Marcion, soon after followed by the CC?
Barnsweb

Louisville, OH

#43 Oct 26, 2013
Dave P wrote:
Antinomianism Any view which holds that Christians are freed by grace from obligations of any moral law. St Paul had to refute a charge of this type made by opponents because of his attitude to the Mosaic Law (Romans 3:8)
Ebionites A Jewish sect that insisted on the necessity of following Jewish law and rites,[19] which they interpreted in light of Jesus' expounding of the Law.[20] They regarded Jesus as the Messiah but not as divine.
Free Spirit Mixed mystical beliefs with Christianity. Its practitioners believed that it was possible to reach perfection on earth through a life of austerity and spiritualism. They believed that they could communicate directly with God and did not need the Christian church for intercession.
Jansenism A branch of Catholic thought which arose in the frame of the Counter-Reformation and the aftermath of the Council of Trent (1545–1563). It emphasized original sin, human depravity, the necessity of divine grace, and predestination.
Christian Zionism Belief that the ingathering of the exiles (Jews) in Israel is a prerequisite for the Second Coming of Jesus. This belief is primarily, though not exclusively, associated with Christian Dispensationalism.
Good starting list of heresies.
Nice try? The Ebionites were not as presented in what you said here. There were was more than one 'faction', and the name means 'the poor', and trace back to the apostolic Church in Jerusalem. Would you say Peter, James and John believed what you wrote about refusing Jesus as deity? Hardly. They gave us record of the once for all delivered faith, but some try to destroy the facts.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#44 Oct 26, 2013
Roman Catholic Sproul wrote:
<quoted text>I don't get your point. What is unusual about a Pharisee being taught under a Jew. I would expect no less.
The point is low end Prots either deny or are ignorant of history.

For example wouldn't you like to know how how the Monks in Monasteries saved Western Civilization during the "dark ages"?
Of course not, you are a low end Prot.

Your community has no history.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#45 Oct 26, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
Marcion was not mentioned as heresy by the CC? Wiki has some information on it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcion
Paul: Apostle to the heretics... starting with Marcion, soon after followed by the CC?
Marcionism, Protestantism, a heresy is heresy. It is interesting though to learn what they believe.

All come from challenging Church teaching.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#46 Oct 26, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
Nice try? The Ebionites were not as presented in what you said here. There were was more than one 'faction', and the name means 'the poor', and trace back to the apostolic Church in Jerusalem. Would you say Peter, James and John believed what you wrote about refusing Jesus as deity? Hardly. They gave us record of the once for all delivered faith, but some try to destroy the facts.
Not much clear history on them except they still observered the Mosaic Law.

"Recent scholars have plausibly maintained that the term did not originally designate any heretical sect, but merely the orthodox Jewish Christians of Palestine who continued to observe the Mosaic Law. These, ceasing to be in touch with the bulk of the Christian world, would gradually have drifted away from the standard of orthodoxy and become formal heretics. A stage in this development is seen in St. Justin's "Dialogue with Trypho the Jew", chapter xlvii (about A.D. 140), where he speaks of two sects of Jewish Christians estranged from the Church: those who observe the Mosaic Law for themselves, but do not require observance thereof from others; and those who hold it of universal obligation."
Dave P

Dahlonega, GA

#47 Oct 26, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
Nice try? The Ebionites were not as presented in what you said here. There were was more than one 'faction', and the name means 'the poor', and trace back to the apostolic Church in Jerusalem. Would you say Peter, James and John believed what you wrote about refusing Jesus as deity? Hardly. They gave us record of the once for all delivered faith, but some try to destroy the facts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_heresies ...

Where this info came from. Destroying facts? You've got quite familiar with people destroying facts. Jesus' words only guy is a master of it. Refusing Jesus as deity- exactly what JWO guy does. I'd say he disagrees with Peter, James and John. Or have you been so blinded by his and your Paul hatred to examine all of his belief system?
Dave P

Dahlonega, GA

#48 Oct 26, 2013
The counter-missionary group Jews for Judaism favorably mentions the historical Ebionites in their literature in order to argue that "Messianic Judaism", as promoted by missionary groups such as Jews for Jesus, is Pauline Christianity misrepresenting itself as Judaism.[111] Some Messianic groups have expressed concern over leaders in Israel that deny Jesus' divinity and the possible collapse of the Messianic movement due to a resurgence of Ebionitism.[112][113] In a recent polemic, a Messianic leader asked whether Christians should imitate the Torah-observance of "neo-Ebionites".

The majority of Church Fathers[citation needed] agree that the Ebionites rejected many of the precepts central to Nicene orthodoxy, such as his pre-existence, divinity, virgin birth, atoning death, and physical resurrection.[6] On the other hand, an Ebionite story has Jesus eating bread with his brother Jacob ("James the Just") after the resurrection, which indicates that the Ebionites, or at least the ones who accepted this version of the Gospel of the Hebrews, very much believed in a physical resurrection for Jesus.[54] The Ebionites are described as emphasizing the oneness of God and the humanity of Jesus as the biological son of both Mary and Joseph, who by virtue of his righteousness, was chosen by God to be the messianic "prophet like Moses" (foretold in Deuteronomy 18:14–22) when he was anointed with the Holy Spirit at his baptism.[4] Origen (Contra Celsum 5.61)[55] and Eusebius (Historia Ecclesiastica 3.27.3) recognize some variation in the Christology of Ebionite groups; for example that while all Ebionites denied Christ's pre-existence there was a sub-group which did not deny the virgin birth.[56] Theodoret, while dependent on earlier writers,[57] draws the conclusion that the two sub-groups would have used different Gospels.[58]

Of the books of the New Testament, the Ebionites are said to have accepted only a Hebrew (or Aramaic) version of the Gospel of Matthew, referred to as the Gospel of the Hebrews, as additional scripture to the Hebrew Bible. This version of Matthew, Irenaeus reports, omitted the first two chapters (on the nativity of Jesus), and started with the baptism of Jesus by John.[22]

The Ebionites believed that all Jews and Gentiles must observe the commandments in the Law of Moses,[21] in order to become righteous and seek communion with God.[59]

One of the first men to believe in the prophethood of Muhammad was an Ebionite monk named Waraqah ibn Nawfal, the distant cousin of Mohammed, whom Muslims highly honor as a pious man with deep knowledge of the Christian scriptures.[

We call upon the gentiles to repent, to abandon paganism and the perverse testament, and enter into true covenant through Torah, circumcision, and immersion in order to submit and prepare for the Reign of God as brothers exhibiting good works.

To follow Yeshua, may he rest in peace, you must not worship him or any man, but instead be what Yeshua was, a Jew. Yeshua was a man who died and was buried, and finding his bones does not effect the value of many of his recorded teachings, the core of these still buried beneath Christian additions, alterations, and falsifications. His value to us has nothing to do with fairy tales and miracles, divinity or resurrection. We already have the God of Israel so Yeshua is no replacement for Him nor can Yeshua's words nullify God's commandments.
Yeshua is not a god, not a sacrifice for sin, or savior. Such beliefs go against God. We ask you to honestly consider the fruit of other religions without explaining away their sins and failures to deliver a godly world; the millions of people they have murdered for "God" even other denominations of their own religion; and all the unbiblical ways in which they claim to honor their god. Deep down you know that neither God or the man Yeshua can truly be present in these religions.

BW, you can believe this buffoonery all you want. Heresy.
Dave P

Dahlonega, GA

#49 Oct 26, 2013
Marcionism An Early Christian dualist belief system. Marcion affirmed Jesus Christ as the savior sent by God and Paul as his chief apostle, but he rejected the Hebrew Bible and the Hebrew God. Marcionists believed that the wrathful Hebrew God was a separate and lower entity than the all-forgiving God of the New Testament. This belief was in some ways similar to Gnostic Christian theology, but in other ways different. Originates in the teachings of Marcion of Sinope at Rome around the year 144.[26] Many early apologists, such as Tertullian on his Adversus Marcionem (year 207) condemned Marcionism Marcionism continued in the West for 300 years, although Marcionistic ideas persisted much longer.[27] Marcionism continued in the East for some centuries later.

Yes, it was mentioned.
William

Cusseta, GA

#50 Oct 26, 2013
I wonder if Jesus Words Only Dude has ever been to Israel. That would be an interesting video series, seeing him trying to Out-Torah those other fake Jews.
Dave P

Dahlonega, GA

#51 Oct 26, 2013
William wrote:
I wonder if Jesus Words Only Dude has ever been to Israel. That would be an interesting video series, seeing him trying to Out-Torah those other fake Jews.
Again, throw in Mel Brooks, and we have another fine movie in the making. Some of these Messianics beat all I've ever seen, except perhaps MISSOURI winning the SEC East and playing Alabama. This just isn't right.
William

Charlotte, NC

#52 Oct 26, 2013
Misery to Atlanta. Then they get maimed.

Since: Jul 12

Oceana, WV

#53 Nov 1, 2013
I have a theory about where Atheism comes from - nowhere in particular, but everywhere in general. Atheism is our natural state of being - everyone is born an Atheist - religion is something you learn.

If you want to blame someone or something for promoting and spreading Atheism, I would suggest: philosophy. I define philosophy as the art of asking "why?" but wiki say:

Philosophy is the study of general and fundamental problems, such as those connected with reality, existence, knowledge, values, reason, mind, and language. Philosophy is distinguished from other ways of addressing such problems by its critical, generally systematic approach and its reliance on rational argument. In more casual speech, by extension, "philosophy" can refer to "the most basic beliefs, concepts, and attitudes of an individual or group".

Your religion is one of your most basic beliefs, right? Philosophy requires that you apply logic to what you believe to be fact - logic eliminates faith - all religions fall to pieces without faith. Philosophy is the path to enlightenment and philosophy promotes Atheism.

My Protestant friends would be very offended to be blamed for my Atheism - it's not at all what they wish for me. Truly, it is an ex-Christian's burden to disappoint so many people that they care for.
William

Norman, OK

#54 Nov 1, 2013
The only difference between an atheist and a religious person is that an atheist worships themself.

Since: Jul 12

Oceana, WV

#55 Nov 1, 2013
I do not worship at all - I have no reason to worship myself or anyone.

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#56 Nov 2, 2013
Awesome_Steve_Monkey wrote:
Philosophy is the path to enlightenment and philosophy promotes Atheism..
An ignorant statement.

Some of the Great Catholic Philosophers of recent years.

Twentieth century and today[edit]

Mortimer Jerome Adler; converted to Catholicism in 2000
Mariano Artigas
G. E. M. Anscombe
Thomas Berry
Józef Maria Boche&#324;ski
Leonardo Boff
Joseph A. Bracken
Henri Brémond
Raymond E. Brown
Jay Budziszewski
Christopher Butler
Hélder Câmara
Olavo de Carvalho
Michel de Certeau
Pierre Teilhard de Chardin
G. K. Chesterton
Joan Chittister
Jean-Louis Chrétien
Paul Claudel
Yves Congar
Frederick Copleston
Henri de Lubac
Mary Daly
Henry Denifle
Peter Dens
Miguel A. De La Torre
Michael Dummett
Louis Dupre
Jacques Dupuis
Ignacio Ellacuría
Cornelio Fabro
Elisabeth Schussler Fiorenza
Joseph Fitzmyer
John Finnis
Matthew Fox (priest)
Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange
Peter Geach
Robert P. George
Étienne Gilson
René Girard
Germain Grisez
Vekoslav Grmi&#269;
Romano Guardini
Jean Guitton
Gustavo Gutierrez
John Joseph Haldane
Catharina Halkes
John Hardon
Michal Heller
Alice von Hildebrand
Ivan Illich
Elizabeth Johnson (theologian)
Charles Journet
Bernard Philip Kelly
Milan Komar
Peter Kreeft
Edward Feser
Hans Küng
Catherine LaCugna
Osvaldo Lira
Bernard Lonergan
Alasdair MacIntyre
Gabriel Marcel
Jean-Luc Marion
Jacques Maritain
William E. May
Richard McBrien
Ralph McInerny
Marshall McLuhan
John P. Meier
Thomas Merton
Johannes B. Metz
Vincent Miceli
Thomas Molnar
Emmanuel Mounier
John Courtney Murray
Richard John Neuhaus
Aidan Nichols
Henri Nouwen
Walter J. Ong
Josef Pieper
Karl Rahner
Joseph Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI)
Nicholas Rescher
Martin Rhonheimer
Jacek Salij
James V. Schall
Max Scheler
Edward Schillebeeckx
Piet Schoonenberg
Angelo Scola
Antonin Sertillanges
Yves Simon
Jon Sobrino
Robert Spaemann
Michael Kheirabi
Edith Stein
Charles Taylor
František Tomášek
Joseph de Torre
David Tracy
Karel Vladimir Truhlar
Aleš Ušeni&#269;nik
Cyril O'Regan
Jean Vanier
Bas van Fraassen
Gianni Vattimo
Hans Urs von Balthasar
Dietrich von Hildebrand
Oswald von Nell-Breuning
Thomas Weinandy
C. J. F. Williams
Carol Zaleski
Hector Zagal
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#57 Nov 2, 2013
Awesome_Steve_Monkey wrote:
I do not worship at all - I have no reason to worship myself or anyone.
Everyone worships- just the who, what, when, where, why, and how is different.
Dave P

Morehead, KY

#58 Nov 2, 2013
Where does atheism come from- rebellion.

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#59 Nov 2, 2013
Dave P wrote:
Where does atheism come from- rebellion.
Exactly. Protestantism.
William

Bixby, OK

#60 Nov 2, 2013
Dave P wrote:
Where does atheism come from- rebellion.
And Ivy League schools.

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