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Since: Sep 13

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#1
Oct 24, 2013
 

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I'd say the whole concept of "sola scriptura" or "bible alone" the idea that ANYONE can just pick up the bible and read it for themselves has not only splintered Protestantism, but is actually a tool that Atheists use all the time.

Atheists, just as easily as Protestants, can pick up a bible, misread it or argue with it and no one has the singular authority to say they are wrong.

All the time I see Atheists on other forum use the bible as their primary tool against Christians. They refuse to accept anyone else's interpretations and in their place, substitute their own. Much like what many Protestants do.

For instance, if you read the OT and say God condoned Slavery, and I try to show that you are wrong.. Which of us is right?

The Atheist could just as easily be right and the Protestant wrong.
At best they are at a dead end the have no way to resolve it.
The Atheist can use their right to personally read scripture and seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit to say that THEY are right and the Christian wrong.

So Protestantism's idea of "personal interpretation, lead only by the Holy Spirit" is as much a tool of division and used against them, as it is to bring them closer to God.

Catholicism is susceptible to its own arguments and attacks..but not the same when it comes to biblical interpretation. For a Catholic, the bible is a product of the authority of the church and it has final say on interpretation. Interpretation has to be consistent with ALL of history, including how the early Christians from the 1st and 4th centuries believed.
Annoying Proxy

Manassas, VA

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#2
Oct 24, 2013
 

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Here is a link Barnsweb shared sometime ago. This an ex-Pharisee and he explains what a Pharisee really is, the following of oral tradition and sometimes changing it along the way, just as do. They are the modern day Pharisees. The teaching is long and he does not believe Christ is the Messiah. He does seem to be knowledgeable of the Jews. Notice how Catholic practice parallels Pharisee practice. Who should know what a Pharisee is better than a Pharisee?


http://www.youtube.com/watch... #


The written word from God was given to us for a reason by God. Rebellious man wants his own way and downplays the God given word to us and replace it with their own oral laws and man made traditions. Anyone can see who that is among us today. Does anyone think God went to the trouble to bring us his word in written form only to have it replaced by the words of man? The Catholics do.
William

Birmingham, AL

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#3
Oct 24, 2013
 

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"I'd say the whole concept of "sola scriptura" or "bible alone" the idea that ANYONE can just pick up the bible and read it for themselves has not only splintered Protestantism, but is actually a tool that Atheists use all the time."

Sort of like pointing out the rampant sexual perversions amog the officialdom of the Catholic church, coupled with it's wild spending on house renovations in Germany, can lead to atheism?

Glass houses, man.
johnny

Martinsville, VA

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#4
Oct 24, 2013
 

Since: May 10

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#5
Oct 24, 2013
 

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Mike_Peterson wrote:
I'd say the whole concept of "sola scriptura" or "bible alone" the idea that ANYONE can just pick up the bible and read it for themselves has not only splintered Protestantism, but is actually a tool that Atheists use all the time.
Atheists, just as easily as Protestants, can pick up a bible, misread it or argue with it and no one has the singular authority to say they are wrong.
All the time I see Atheists on other forum use the bible as their primary tool against Christians. They refuse to accept anyone else's interpretations and in their place, substitute their own. Much like what many Protestants do.
For instance, if you read the OT and say God condoned Slavery, and I try to show that you are wrong.. Which of us is right?
The Atheist could just as easily be right and the Protestant wrong.
At best they are at a dead end the have no way to resolve it.
The Atheist can use their right to personally read scripture and seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit to say that THEY are right and the Christian wrong.
So Protestantism's idea of "personal interpretation, lead only by the Holy Spirit" is as much a tool of division and used against them, as it is to bring them closer to God.
Catholicism is susceptible to its own arguments and attacks..but not the same when it comes to biblical interpretation. For a Catholic, the bible is a product of the authority of the church and it has final say on interpretation. Interpretation has to be consistent with ALL of history, including how the early Christians from the 1st and 4th centuries believed.
Why would the apostles especially Paul write letters of instruction and encouragement to the early church if in fact they had through apostolic succession given each church the pillar of truth? We know elders had been installed in each of those groups. It makes no sense that the written letters of corrections would be needed if apostolic succession had occurred. The fact is that false doctrine appeared when RCC fabricated it.
Also if the Apostolic succession had been in the early church why did the Revelation indicate that those groups were failing, you know those seven churches that no longer exist? Now it must be that Christ failed in establishing the church as catholics view it but the Pope did not.

Since: Sep 13

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#6
Oct 24, 2013
 

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William wrote:
"I'd say the whole concept of "sola scriptura" or "bible alone" the idea that ANYONE can just pick up the bible and read it for themselves has not only splintered Protestantism, but is actually a tool that Atheists use all the time."
Sort of like pointing out the rampant sexual perversions amog the officialdom of the Catholic church, coupled with it's wild spending on house renovations in Germany, can lead to atheism?
Glass houses, man.
So you think SS has not splintered Protestantism? They have splintered down to no Church and the last step of non-believer.

Since: Sep 13

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#7
Oct 24, 2013
 

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JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would the apostles especially Paul write letters of instruction and encouragement to the early church if in fact they had through apostolic succession given each church the pillar of truth? We know elders had been installed in each of those groups. It makes no sense that the written letters of corrections would be needed if apostolic succession had occurred. The fact is that false doctrine appeared when RCC fabricated it.
Also if the Apostolic succession had been in the early church why did the Revelation indicate that those groups were failing, you know those seven churches that no longer exist? Now it must be that Christ failed in establishing the church as catholics view it but the Pope did not.
Those were 1 Church, different locations. Your splintered interpretation of the Bible means nothing.
William

Opelika, AL

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#8
Oct 24, 2013
 
Mike_Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
So you think SS has not splintered Protestantism? They have splintered down to no Church and the last step of non-believer.
Competition has splintered protestantism more than anything. At least the Catholic church deserves credit for keeping it's business model in place the longest, outside of Judaism.
William

Opelika, AL

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#9
Oct 24, 2013
 

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Just look at the goofy Church of Christ as a prime example. Splitting up over whether a piano belongs in their synagogues or not. The Disciples of Christ got the liberals, while the rest got the Tea Baggers.

Split the cash flow accordingly.
Dave P

Morehead, KY

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#10
Oct 24, 2013
 
JC- Also if the Apostolic succession had been in the early church why did the Revelation indicate that those groups were failing, you know those seven churches that no longer exist? Now it must be that Christ failed in establishing the church as catholics view it but the Pope did not.

Mike- Those were 1 Church, different locations.

William- Competition has splintered protestantism more than anything. At least the Catholic church deserves credit for keeping it's business model in place the longest, outside of Judaism.

Just look at the goofy Church of Christ as a prime example. Splitting up over whether a piano belongs in their synagogues or not. The Disciples of Christ got the liberals, while the rest got the Tea Baggers.

Mike- So you think SS has not splintered Protestantism?

Dave- have to agree with Mike and William on all these points. Except there are moderates, blue dogs and rinos in the churches of Christ/Christian churches. Not all are right wing tea baggers.
Dave P

Morehead, KY

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#11
Oct 24, 2013
 

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Here we have 'one man one vote'. In modern Christianity we have 'one man one interpretation'. Who can honestly say this DOESN'T hurt the cause of Christ?
Barnsweb

Louisville, OH

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#12
Oct 24, 2013
 

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Mike_Peterson wrote:
I'd say the whole concept of "sola scriptura" or "bible alone" the idea that ANYONE can just pick up the bible and read it for themselves has not only splintered Protestantism, but is actually a tool that Atheists use all the time.
Atheists, just as easily as Protestants, can pick up a bible, misread it or argue with it and no one has the singular authority to say they are wrong.
All the time I see Atheists on other forum use the bible as their primary tool against Christians. They refuse to accept anyone else's interpretations and in their place, substitute their own. Much like what many Protestants do.
For instance, if you read the OT and say God condoned Slavery, and I try to show that you are wrong.. Which of us is right?
The Atheist could just as easily be right and the Protestant wrong.
At best they are at a dead end the have no way to resolve it.
The Atheist can use their right to personally read scripture and seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit to say that THEY are right and the Christian wrong.
So Protestantism's idea of "personal interpretation, lead only by the Holy Spirit" is as much a tool of division and used against them, as it is to bring them closer to God.
Catholicism is susceptible to its own arguments and attacks..but not the same when it comes to biblical interpretation. For a Catholic, the bible is a product of the authority of the church and it has final say on interpretation. Interpretation has to be consistent with ALL of history, including how the early Christians from the 1st and 4th centuries believed.
None of the doctrines that have divided Christianity stem from anything Jesus taught. As you state, it's 'personal interpretation', but I'd call it picking and choosing what any Church - including Catholic - believe. And the doctrinal sources that divide are of Paul - not Jesus Christ - not the OT - not James or Jude - but Paul.

Paul prevents Jews from becoming Christians because the prophecies say the Messiah will cause the Gentiles to keep the Torah. How can they do that when Paul said Torah was nailed to the cross and is the source of death?

Paul prevents Muslims from believing as they see Paul as denying the very commandments of God and that those who do such things cannot be of God.

Paul prevents those such as Jefferson from becoming Christians because even Jefferson noted Paul taught against what Jesus taught.

Paul prevents unity in the Christian churches because they find confusion to know what Paul taught - he was all over the place, and they don't think to suspend their belief in his words long enough to study what it was Jesus taught!

But will there be time for Christians to repent of Paul? I submit they are incapable to repent of his errors. It's so much easier to just say the prayer to trust in Jesus and not have to repent to do whatever He taught and be submissive to the King.

Who said: "Bring those servants of mine who did not want me to reign over them and slay them at my feet."?

and

"Why do you call Me 'Lord', and not do what I say?"
Barnsweb

Louisville, OH

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#13
Oct 24, 2013
 

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JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would the apostles especially Paul write letters of instruction and encouragement to the early church if in fact they had through apostolic succession given each church the pillar of truth? We know elders had been installed in each of those groups. It makes no sense that the written letters of corrections would be needed if apostolic succession had occurred. The fact is that false doctrine appeared when RCC fabricated it.
Also if the Apostolic succession had been in the early church why did the Revelation indicate that those groups were failing, you know those seven churches that no longer exist? Now it must be that Christ failed in establishing the church as catholics view it but the Pope did not.
False doctrine preceded the RCC - it started with the false apostle.

Show the evidence Paul was an apostle from anyone in the NT other than Paul. If Paul alone testifies to himself, by the standards Jesus taught - Paul is a liar.
Dave P

Morehead, KY

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#14
Oct 24, 2013
 

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Nuts, spam, clueless, wrong, incendiary, disagree, rinse and repeat ad nauseum to Paul bashing buffoonery.

Barnsweb has given up thinking, laying it at the altar of Jesus' words only guy. Both your last two posts are almost word for word what that dude says on the link you posted. And he's wrong. What's the word the cavalry uses- heretic?
William

Opelika, AL

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#15
Oct 24, 2013
 
Have you sold out everything yet? Like Jesus Words Only said.

I bet not.
William

Opelika, AL

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#16
Oct 24, 2013
 
That JWO Dude is big on selling his books, I see.

I wonder if he has also decided to follow Jesus by selling out what he has and giving the proceeds to the poor.

If not, why not?
Dave P

Morehead, KY

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#17
Oct 24, 2013
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_heresies...

Anyone care to agree with their assessments?
William

Opelika, AL

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#18
Oct 24, 2013
 
Sounds like it could be a Mel Brooks movie.
Dave P

Morehead, KY

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#19
Oct 24, 2013
 
Spaceballs and Blazing Saddles combined. Yes!!!
William

Opelika, AL

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#20
Oct 24, 2013
 
History of the World, Part 2

Needs to happen.

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