Jesus is King
Dave P

Olive Hill, KY

#618 Dec 8, 2013
Third: When interpreting Matthew 23:9, it would be helpful to read the entire 23rd chapter of Matthew in order to get a proper understanding of the context of this passage. This 23rd chapter of Matthew contains the Lord's indictment of the scribes and pharisees for their hypocrisy, their focus on the externals of religion without genuine repentance and a corresponding conversion of heart. So, not only does Jesus condemn the scribes and pharisees for their use of the address "Father" in a vain and empty way, but in the very next verse says: "Nor are you to be called teachers, for you have one teacher, the Christ" (Matthew 23:10). Yet, many contemporary non-denominational TV preachers describe themselves as "Bible teachers" and no one has ever argued that the Church should not have Sunday school teachers on the basis of this passage. Indeed, Jesus Himself acknowledged Nicodemus to be a "teacher of Israel" (John 3:10) and in the Book of Acts we read that certain men in Antioch were called "teachers" (Acts 13:1), to give only two examples. Therefore, as can be clearly understood when one reads the 23rd chapter of Matthew in its entirety, Jesus takes issue not with these titles and roles in and of themselves, but rather with their self-aggrandizing abuse by the scribes and pharisees.

Finally: This kind of attempt to interpret the Scriptures literally and then apply a passage taken out of context in a polemical way, usually towards Roman Catholics - but by extension often towards us as Orthodox Christians as well - is, unfortunately, all too typical of much "non-denominational" Christianity. At best, it is a misreading and misunderstanding of the Scriptures; at worst, it can be an expression of religious bigotry.

*This is dead on accurate.
Dave P

Olive Hill, KY

#619 Dec 8, 2013
William wrote:
SEC dominance continues! Read it and weep Ohio State, Big 10, Big 12, ACC (joke).

Auburn wins a shootout 38-35.

Now, if my Cats will pick up out of their problems, it could be another football/hoops sweep for the SEC.
Dave P

Olive Hill, KY

#620 Dec 8, 2013
http://www.studylight.org/com/bcc/view.cgi...

Needless to say, such terms as Brother, Evangelist, Elder, Minister, Bishop, Deacon, Cardinal, Pope, Metropolitan, Monsignor, etc., etc., violate Christ's law when such are used as food for vanity of the designate or for procuring the acceptance of his views by others.

This is from Burton Coffman, a coc teacher. Notice how he worded this. "Such terms as brother, evangelist, elder.... violate Christ's law WHEN SUCH ARE USED AS FOOD FOR VANITY OF THE DESIGNATE OR FOR PROCURING THE ACCEPTANCE OF HIS VIEWS BY OTHERS."

Notice he did NOT state this was a universal forbidding of using such titles; but was speaking of attitudes. He got it.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#621 Dec 8, 2013
Dave P wrote:
Third: When interpreting Matthew 23:9, it would be helpful to read the entire 23rd chapter of Matthew in order to get a proper understanding of the context of this passage. This 23rd chapter of Matthew contains the Lord's indictment of the scribes and pharisees for their hypocrisy, their focus on the externals of religion without genuine repentance and a corresponding conversion of heart. So, not only does Jesus condemn the scribes and pharisees for their use of the address "Father" in a vain and empty way, but in the very next verse says: "Nor are you to be called teachers, for you have one teacher, the Christ" (Matthew 23:10). Yet, many contemporary non-denominational TV preachers describe themselves as "Bible teachers" and no one has ever argued that the Church should not have Sunday school teachers on the basis of this passage. Indeed, Jesus Himself acknowledged Nicodemus to be a "teacher of Israel" (John 3:10) and in the Book of Acts we read that certain men in Antioch were called "teachers" (Acts 13:1), to give only two examples. Therefore, as can be clearly understood when one reads the 23rd chapter of Matthew in its entirety, Jesus takes issue not with these titles and roles in and of themselves, but rather with their self-aggrandizing abuse by the scribes and pharisees.

Finally: This kind of attempt to interpret the Scriptures literally and then apply a passage taken out of context in a polemical way, usually towards Roman Catholics - but by extension often towards us as Orthodox Christians as well - is, unfortunately, all too typical of much "non-denominational" Christianity. At best, it is a misreading and misunderstanding of the Scriptures; at worst, it can be an expression of religious bigotry.

*This is dead on accurate.
Yes, read the entire chapter.

Verse 9 still reads the same.

Christ is talking about religious titles. They are not to be used among God's people. No title of "father" is to be given to religious leaders. That's why Paul isn't called "father Paul" or "reverend Paul" in the Bible. He's just called....Paul.

Not real hard to understand.

www.roysecitycoc.org

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#622 Dec 8, 2013
I notice Catholics never have the title of slave. I guess that's not very exalting.

Interesting.
Dave P

Olive Hill, KY

#623 Dec 8, 2013
Heath: Yes, read the entire chapter.
Verse 9 still reads the same.
Christ is talking about religious titles. They are not to be used among God's people. No title of "father" is to be given to religious leaders. That's why Paul isn't called "father Paul" or "reverend Paul" in the Bible. He's just called....Paul.
Not real hard to understand.
Burton Coffman- Needless to say, such terms as Brother, Evangelist, Elder, Minister, Bishop, Deacon, Cardinal, Pope, Metropolitan, Monsignor, etc., etc., violate Christ's law when such are used as food for vanity of the designate or for procuring the acceptance of his views by others.
Heath and Mr. Coffman do not agree. I agree with Mr. Coffman, as he agreed with Jesus. Religious titles in and of themselves are not the issue. It's the use, pride, vanity of said titles that cause the issue. And the upholding of others due to their "title" is another way of being guilty.
How many men go around calling themselves "Doctor" because they have a master's degree in Theology? How many view their opinions as more valid because someone went to college, got a degree, etc? How many use that title to their advantage?
Some fruitcakes on here even claim Paul used the term "apostle" in this very manner.
*Wonder if this interpretation existed before the reformation?

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#624 Dec 9, 2013
HEATH - 72 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, read the entire chapter.
Verse 9 still reads the same.
Christ is talking about religious titles. They are not to be used among God's people. No title of "father" is to be given to religious leaders. That's why Paul isn't called "father Paul" or "reverend Paul" in the Bible. He's just called....Paul.
Not real hard to understand.
www.roysecitycoc.org
Too bad you don't spend as much time talking about Daniel Sommer and Welch's Pasteurized Grape Juice as you do this topic.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#625 Dec 9, 2013
Follow Paul orJesus wrote:
The follower of Paul makes this statement. Just as our biological father has an important role in our birth and continuing nurture, so the priest - as the one who baptizes us - has an important role in our second birth, our birth "from above…of water and the Spirit" (John 3:3-5).
Jesus says: Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.(or from above)
We are talking of two different things here. Being born from above and of God and following our Father in heaven as Jesus teaches.
The other way is being born of a priest or Father on earth and as Paul teaches following him or your Father on earth.
Chose this day whom you will follow.
AMEN! Exactly! Have you read "Jesus' Words Only"? Someone else seems to realize the truth. Those who followed others were destroyed by God. If it can be proven that Paul did not teach the Doctrine of God and abide in the Doctrine of Jesus Christ - if the apostle John tells the truth - II John 9-11?(and I John)
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#626 Dec 9, 2013
Dave P wrote:
Third: When interpreting Matthew 23:9, it would be helpful to read the entire 23rd chapter of Matthew in order to get a proper understanding of the context of this passage. This 23rd chapter of Matthew contains the Lord's indictment of the scribes and pharisees for their hypocrisy, their focus on the externals of religion without genuine repentance and a corresponding conversion of heart. So, not only does Jesus condemn the scribes and pharisees for their use of the address "Father" in a vain and empty way, but in the very next verse says: "Nor are you to be called teachers, for you have one teacher, the Christ" (Matthew 23:10). Yet, many contemporary non-denominational TV preachers describe themselves as "Bible teachers" and no one has ever argued that the Church should not have Sunday school teachers on the basis of this passage. Indeed, Jesus Himself acknowledged Nicodemus to be a "teacher of Israel" (John 3:10) and in the Book of Acts we read that certain men in Antioch were called "teachers" (Acts 13:1), to give only two examples. Therefore, as can be clearly understood when one reads the 23rd chapter of Matthew in its entirety, Jesus takes issue not with these titles and roles in and of themselves, but rather with their self-aggrandizing abuse by the scribes and pharisees.
Finally: This kind of attempt to interpret the Scriptures literally and then apply a passage taken out of context in a polemical way, usually towards Roman Catholics - but by extension often towards us as Orthodox Christians as well - is, unfortunately, all too typical of much "non-denominational" Christianity. At best, it is a misreading and misunderstanding of the Scriptures; at worst, it can be an expression of religious bigotry.
*This is dead on accurate.
Repentance is to turn and do what God said to do. One does not repent to do what the Pope said to do. If God said to turn to do what He said to do, and part of this is immersion into the Name for forgiveness of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit, one has not really repented to the level of receiving the fullness of the promise until being immersed into His name to do whatever Yeshua taught we are to hear and do. The Pope has nothing to do with the promise of God and no man, a Pope, LDS Prophet, or even Martin Luther - Yeshua said "Follow Me."

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#627 Dec 9, 2013
Dave P wrote:
Heath: Yes, read the entire chapter.
Verse 9 still reads the same.
Christ is talking about religious titles. They are not to be used among God's people. No title of "father" is to be given to religious leaders. That's why Paul isn't called "father Paul" or "reverend Paul" in the Bible. He's just called....Paul.
Not real hard to understand.
Burton Coffman- Needless to say, such terms as Brother, Evangelist, Elder, Minister, Bishop, Deacon, Cardinal, Pope, Metropolitan, Monsignor, etc., etc., violate Christ's law when such are used as food for vanity of the designate or for procuring the acceptance of his views by others.
Heath and Mr. Coffman do not agree. I agree with Mr. Coffman, as he agreed with Jesus. Religious titles in and of themselves are not the issue. It's the use, pride, vanity of said titles that cause the issue. And the upholding of others due to their "title" is another way of being guilty.
How many men go around calling themselves "Doctor" because they have a master's degree in Theology? How many view their opinions as more valid because someone went to college, got a degree, etc? How many use that title to their advantage?
Some fruitcakes on here even claim Paul used the term "apostle" in this very manner.
*Wonder if this interpretation existed before the reformation?
And???

No problem here.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#628 Dec 9, 2013
All this is waste of time anyway. I've been told by a Catholic that I don't have to be in the CC to be saved.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#629 Dec 9, 2013
HEATH - 72 wrote:
All this is waste of time anyway. I've been told by a Catholic that I don't have to be in the CC to be saved.
That's a damn good thing because you sure aren't going to make it in Father Sommer's little denomination calling itself the Church of Christ.
Follow Paul or Jesus

Torrance, CA

#630 Dec 9, 2013
Student Quiz
According to the bible one man changed the necessity of keeping the Sabbath. What was the name of this man? Bible, chapter, and verse please. A trusting soul I am not children.
Mike Peterson

United States

#631 Dec 9, 2013
HEATH - 72 wrote:
All this is waste of time anyway. I've been told by a Catholic that I don't have to be in the CC to be saved.
You would have to claim invincible ignorance of Church teaching and not die in a state of mortal sin.

You not only reject, but denigrate the teaching of the Church and therefore reject Jesus' teaching and denigrate him so you can't claim that. Whoever hears his Church hears him.

You have chosen to make up what you think is required for salvation based your ignorant interpretation of a book. Jesus never talked about a book. Only a Church, the pillar of Truth.

Reading a book and basing your salvation on your brain. Asinine.

You have no access to the sacrament of Reconciliation to confess your sins. I would say your odds are not good.

But the Church has never declared officially any individual has gone to hell. Only God knows that.

Read the CCC. You can get an idea what chance you have.
Dave P

Cleveland, GA

#632 Dec 9, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
Repentance is to turn and do what God said to do. One does not repent to do what the Pope said to do. If God said to turn to do what He said to do, and part of this is immersion into the Name for forgiveness of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit, one has not really repented to the level of receiving the fullness of the promise until being immersed into His name to do whatever Yeshua taught we are to hear and do. The Pope has nothing to do with the promise of God and no man, a Pope, LDS Prophet, or even Martin Luther - Yeshua said "Follow Me."
This has nothing to do with the topic at hand. THIS IS SPAM.
Dave P

Cleveland, GA

#633 Dec 9, 2013
HEATH - 72 wrote:
<quoted text>
And???
No problem here.
Yes, it's true. Heath gave up thinking for Lent.
Dave P

Cleveland, GA

#634 Dec 9, 2013
Follow Paul orJesus wrote:
The follower of Paul makes this statement. Just as our biological father has an important role in our birth and continuing nurture, so the priest - as the one who baptizes us - has an important role in our second birth, our birth "from above…of water and the Spirit" (John 3:3-5).
Jesus says: Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.(or from above)
We are talking of two different things here. Being born from above and of God and following our Father in heaven as Jesus teaches.
The other way is being born of a priest or Father on earth and as Paul teaches following him or your Father on earth.
Chose this day whom you will follow.

BW- AMEN! Exactly! Have you read "Jesus' Words Only"? Someone else seems to realize the truth. Those who followed others were destroyed by God. If it can be proven that Paul did not teach the Doctrine of God and abide in the Doctrine of Jesus Christ - if the apostle John tells the truth - II John 9-11?(and I John)

1. Gentlemen, the "follower of Paul" is not Paul. If you can't separate what someone teaches from what Paul said, then there is no hope for either of you.

2. Notice how excited BW got? What were the first things he typed? "Have you read 'Jesus' Words Only'"? Exactly.

Get these two an OT, with only the red letter NT; some Jewish skull caps, a long beard and a prayer rug, and get out of their way.

Double buffoonery.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#635 Dec 9, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, it's true. Heath gave up thinking for Lent.
This is Advent. Church used to ban butter used in baking during Advent...Heath would have hated that!

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#636 Dec 9, 2013
MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>That's a damn good thing because you sure aren't going to make it in Father Sommer's little denomination calling itself the Church of Christ.
Is your heart so full of hate and bitterness that you must resort to cussing to express your emotions?

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#637 Dec 9, 2013
HEATH - 72 wrote:
<quoted text>
Is your heart so full of hate and bitterness that you must resort to cussing to express your emotions?
Damn is listed 14 times in your Bible. Cussing??????

Ignorance.

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