Whst did God say the Spirit is for?

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R-oman C-atholic SPROUL

Manassas, VA

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#21
Jun 26, 2013
 

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Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
You are kind of creative. Tell me exactly how the Bible was kept away intentionally from hands of the people starting from 382 to 2013.
This will be interesting.
HINT: Better check how Bibles were created before 1470 and how many people could read.
I hate to bring up past discretions of any church especially those that make claims of being the "only" church, but if you insist I am too considerate to withhold accommodation. I know how the Catholic church is still in the process of rewriting history to reflect a more favorable light of their past practices and that is especially true of the pedophile scandal of today. I think they will eventually get the murders of the crusades, the power grab of the church, attempt at controlling the bible, and other misdeeds buried. That day has not arrived yet, however.
COUNCIL OF TOULOUSE - 1229 A.D.
Canon 14. We prohibit also that the laity should be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament; unless anyone from motive of devotion should wish to have the Psalter or the Breviary for divine offices or the hours of the blessed Virgin; but we most strictly forbid their having any translation of these books.
THE COUNCIL OF TARRAGONA - 1234 A.D.
"No one may possess the books of the Old and New Testaments in the Romance language, and if anyone possesses them he must turn them over to the local bishop within eight days after promulgation of this decree, so that they may be burned lest, be he a cleric or a layman, he be suspected until he is cleared of all suspicion."
In 1408 the third synod of Oxford, England, banned unauthorized English translations of the Bible and decreed that possession of English translation's had to be approved by diocesan authorities. The Oxford council declared:
"It is dangerous, as St. Jerome declares, to translate the text of Holy Scriptures out of one idiom into another, since it is not easy in translations to preserve exactly the same meaning in all things. We therefore command and ordain that henceforth no one translate the text of Holy Scripture into English or any other language as a book, booklet, or tract, of this kind lately made in the time of the said John Wyclif or since, or that hereafter may be made, either in part or wholly, either publicly or privately, under pain of excommunication, until such translation shall have been approved and allowed by the Provincial Council. He who shall act otherwise let him be punished as an abettor of heresy and error."
R-oman C-atholic SPROUL

Manassas, VA

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#22
Jun 26, 2013
 
THE BIBLE PROHIBITED BY THE INDEX LIBRORUM PROHIBITORUM
Pope Pius IV had a list of the forbidden books compiled and officially prohibited them in the Index of Trent (Index Librorum Prohibitorum) of 1559. This is an excerpt:
Rule III
Translations of older works, including the church fathers, made by condemned authors, are permitted if they contain nothing against sound doctrine. However, translations of books of the Old Testament may be allowed by the judgment of bishops for the use of learned and pious men only. These translations are to elucidate the Vulgate so that Sacred Scripture can be understood, but they are not to be considered as a sacred text. Translations of the New Testament made by authors of the first sections in this Index are not to be used at all, since too little usefulness and too much danger attends such reading.
Rule IV
Since experience teaches that, if the reading of the Holy Bible in the vernacular is permitted generally without discrimination, more damage than advantage will result because of the boldness of men, the judgment of bishops and inquisitors is to serve as guide in this regard. Bishops and inquisitors may, in accord with the counsel of the local priest and confessor, allow Catholic translations of the Bible to be read by those of whom they realize that such reading will not lead to the detriment but to the increase of faith and piety. The permission is to be given in writing. Whoever reads or has such a translation in his possession without this permission cannot be absolved from his sins until he has turned in these Bibles ...
Die Indices Librorum Prohibitorum des sechzehnten
Jahrhunderts (Tübingen, 1886), page 246f.
We could go on and on but I am afraid topix would blow a fuse with such a burden of evidence available that has not been doctored by the Catholic propaganda machine. I will admit it is necessary to remove your Catholic blinders when viewing this but please do so slowly. The shock of the truth can be devastating to those heavily
involved following cult like false leaders. Remember we shall stand before God, not man.
Mike Peterson

Madison, MS

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#23
Jun 26, 2013
 
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
Better step back and formulate a valid response. Fact is more people can read today than any day in human history. The Bible is the best selling book in history, but as with other books that sit unread, most people wait to see the movie:-)
Non responsive to the post. Of course more can read. Only 10% of the world could until 1500.

Of those only the rich could afford a hand written Bible.

According to your doctrine multiple Billions are in hell because they were illiterate or poor.

But wait, didnt God give us the Church, which is the pillar and foundation of Truth and no Bible for 350 years after Christ?
Mike Peterson

Madison, MS

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#24
Jun 26, 2013
 

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R-oman C-atholic SPROUL wrote:
<quoted text>I hate to bring up past discretions of any church especially those that make claims of being the "only" church, but if you insist I am too considerate to withhold accommodation. I know how the Catholic church is still in the process of rewriting history to reflect a more favorable light of their past practices and that is especially true of the pedophile scandal of today. I think they will eventually get the murders of the crusades, the power grab of the church, attempt at controlling the bible, and other misdeeds buried. That day has not arrived yet, however.
COUNCIL OF TOULOUSE - 1229 A.D.
Canon 14. We prohibit also that the laity should be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament; unless anyone from motive of devotion should wish to have the Psalter or the Breviary for divine offices or the hours of the blessed Virgin; but we most strictly forbid their having any translation of these books.
THE COUNCIL OF TARRAGONA - 1234 A.D.
"No one may possess the books of the Old and New Testaments in the Romance language, and if anyone possesses them he must turn them over to the local bishop within eight days after promulgation of this decree, so that they may be burned lest, be he a cleric or a layman, he be suspected until he is cleared of all suspicion."
In 1408 the third synod of Oxford, England, banned unauthorized English translations of the Bible and decreed that possession of English translation's had to be approved by diocesan authorities. The Oxford council declared:
"It is dangerous, as St. Jerome declares, to translate the text of Holy Scriptures out of one idiom into another, since it is not easy in translations to preserve exactly the same meaning in all things. We therefore command and ordain that henceforth no one translate the text of Holy Scripture into English or any other language as a book, booklet, or tract, of this kind lately made in the time of the said John Wyclif or since, or that hereafter may be made, either in part or wholly, either publicly or privately, under pain of excommunication, until such translation shall have been approved and allowed by the Provincial Council. He who shall act otherwise let him be punished as an abettor of heresy and error."
You have no clue how the Bible was created do you? Thus your deflection on the answer. Aren't you ashamed of not knowing the history of the Bible?
R-oman C-atholic SPROUL

Manassas, VA

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#25
Jun 26, 2013
 

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It is very troubling when direct quotes from Catholic sources show the Catholic church tried to keep the bible out of the hands of the people. Take a deep breath and slowly remove the blinders. It won't hurt as bad as you think. The truth might even feel good, at least it will be a different feeling from what you are used to.
R-oman C-atholic SPROUL

Manassas, VA

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#26
Jun 26, 2013
 

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Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Non responsive to the post. Of course more can read. Only 10% of the world could until 1500.
Of those only the rich could afford a hand written Bible.
According to your doctrine multiple Billions are in hell because they were illiterate or poor.
But wait, didnt God give us the Church, which is the pillar and foundation of Truth and no Bible for 350 years after Christ?
The percentage of people that could read excuse is no more than Catholic propaganda. Why would the Popes be so interested in keeping the bible out of the hands of public if they could not read to start with?
R-oman C-atholic SPROUL

Manassas, VA

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#27
Jun 26, 2013
 

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Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
You are kind of creative. Tell me exactly how the Bible was kept away intentionally from hands of the people starting from 382 to 2013.
Mike this troubles me to no end that you consider my answer deceptive. I haven't been this bothered since Mark Eden accused me of being a church of Christ preacher. You Catholics can be mean.
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
You have no clue how the Bible was created do you? Thus your deflection on the answer. Aren't you ashamed of not knowing the history of the Bible?
I answered exactly how the Bible was kept away intentionally from hands of the people. Direct Catholic Pope quotes, how could it have been addressed anymore head on than what I did? Hate to leave but I have to teach a new class on church history at the university today. There are several Catholics in this class and I will have to start with the basics to bring them up to speed.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

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#28
Jun 26, 2013
 
"RC Sproul":

Why don't you read the entire report of the whole Council?

It is because you intentionally try to deceive people. Other people call it lying

Yes, the Council of Toulouse dealt with the Bible. It was organized in reaction to the Albigensian or Catharist heresy, which held that there are two gods and that marriage is evil because all matter (and thus physical flesh) is evil. From this the heretics concluded that fornication could be no sin, and they even encouraged suicide among their members. In order to promulgate their sect, the Albigensians published an inaccurate translation of the Bible in the vernacular language (rather like the Jehovah’s Witnesses of today publishing their severely flawed New World Translation of the Bible, which has been deliberately mistranslated to support the sect’s claims). Had it been an accurate translation, the Church would not have been concerned. Vernacular versions had been appearing for centuries. But what came from the hands of the Albigensians was an adulterated Bible. The bishops at Toulouse forbade the reading of it because it was inaccurate. In this they were caring for their flocks, just as a Protestant minister of today might tell his flock not to read the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ New World Translation.

There was no Council of Tarragona in 1234. There was a provincial council in 1242 to deal with the details of the Inquisition. Presuming the author simply got the year wrong, I do know the history of this area and time in a general way. Muslim Moors, who had recently been ejected from this region, had produced doctored versions of the Bible, much like the Albgensians had done in France. This was done to support the view that it was Ishmael, not Issac, who Abraham blessed, that Jesus was not crucified and that another even greater prophet would follow Jesus. Many many copies of these false scriptures had been spread throughout the land during the Moorish occupation of Spain. The Council forbade the reading of these Bibles.

In other words the CC was protecting the Bible for you.

Does your Church tell its members to read the Book of Mormon as the Truth.

You refuse to accept history.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

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#29
Jun 26, 2013
 
R-oman C-atholic SPROUL wrote:
<quoted text>The percentage of people that could read excuse is no more than Catholic propaganda. Why would the Popes be so interested in keeping the bible out of the hands of public if they could not read to start with?
They did not keep it out of the hand of Christians.

The Church that could afford Bibles, had a copy in the Church that anybody could read if they cold not afford one. Most could not read so it wasn't used by the public much.

It did have to secured because of its value. They were being stolen regularly to be sold on the black market.

It took a flock of sheep and monk working by himself from 3-5 years to hand print a Bible with the materials of the time.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

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#30
Jun 26, 2013
 
R-oman C-atholic SPROUL wrote:
<quoted text>
Mike this troubles me to no end that you consider my answer deceptive. I haven't been this bothered since Mark Eden accused me of being a church of Christ preacher. You Catholics can be mean.
<quoted text> I answered exactly how the Bible was kept away intentionally from hands of the people. Direct Catholic Pope quotes, how could it have been addressed anymore head on than what I did? Hate to leave but I have to teach a new class on church history at the university today. There are several Catholics in this class and I will have to start with the basics to bring them up to speed.
You are being deceptive. You left out why the Bishops told them not to read inaccurate Bibles.

Asign them the Book , "Where We GOT the Bible by Henry Graham.

What book are you using?
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

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#31
Jun 26, 2013
 
"History of the Book" is another good source.

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