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Since: Dec 11

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#1
Jan 4, 2012
 
Some in the church of Christ demand that a person who has divorced for “unscriptural grounds” must remain UNmarried ( divorced ) or return to their former spouse. Even if the person who divorced on “unscriptural grounds” remarries another person, the church of Christ say it is sin and insist that the person return to their former spouse thus requiring a second divorce. To make the waters more muddy, they claim the second marriage wasn’t really a marriage, although the courts say otherwise. In other words, they say the second marriage really is adultery because the first marriage was broken on unscriptural grounds. They will even demand the second marriage be split apart even when kids are involved and insist that the first marriage be put back together.

To validate the above, some use Ezra 10.

For starters, I don’t think Ezra teaches this. Secondly, it is wise for the church of Christ to draw some support from the Old Testament at times, but then tell others not to go there for support of music in worship, tithing, and other things?

What say ye?

Is there biblical support in the New Testament to split a second marriage and demand the parties return to their first marriage?

Since: Jan 10

Royse City

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#2
Jan 4, 2012
 
Matthew 5:31-32
31 “Furthermore it has been said,‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery."

Matthew 19:3-9
3 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him,“Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?” 4 And He answered and said to them,“Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning (Gen. 1:27)‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said,(Gen.2:24)‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.” 7 They said to Him,“Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?” 8 He said to them,“Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”

Mark 10:11-12
11 So He said to them,“Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her. 12 And if a woman divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery.”

Luke 16:18
“Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced from her husband commits adultery."

Romans 7:1-3
1 Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? 2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man.

1 Corinthians 7:10-16
10 Now to the married I command, yet not I but the Lord: A wife is not to depart from her husband. 11 But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to divorce his wife. 12 But to the rest I, not the Lord, say: If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her. 13 And a woman who has a husband who does not believe, if he is willing to live with her, let her not divorce him. 14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy. 15 But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases. But God has called us to peace. 16 For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?

www.roysecitycoc.org

Since: May 10

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#3
Jan 4, 2012
 
regiarc ydnar wrote:
Some in the church of Christ demand that a person who has divorced for “unscriptural grounds” must remain UNmarried ( divorced ) or return to their former spouse. Even if the person who divorced on “unscriptural grounds” remarries another person, the church of Christ say it is sin and insist that the person return to their former spouse thus requiring a second divorce. To make the waters more muddy, they claim the second marriage wasn’t really a marriage, although the courts say otherwise. In other words, they say the second marriage really is adultery because the first marriage was broken on unscriptural grounds. They will even demand the second marriage be split apart even when kids are involved and insist that the first marriage be put back together.
To validate the above, some use Ezra 10.
For starters, I don’t think Ezra teaches this. Secondly, it is wise for the church of Christ to draw some support from the Old Testament at times, but then tell others not to go there for support of music in worship, tithing, and other things?
What say ye?
Is there biblical support in the New Testament to split a second marriage and demand the parties return to their first marriage?
Let me ask you this, Do you believe it is lawful to divorce for any reason?

Since: Dec 11

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#4
Jan 4, 2012
 
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
Let me ask you this, Do you believe it is lawful to divorce for any reason?
If a man beats his wife, is it lawful for her to divorce him? I would think so. What say ye?

Since: Dec 11

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#5
Jan 4, 2012
 
HEATH - 72 wrote:
Matthew 5:31-32
31 “Furthermore it has been said,‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery."
Matthew 19:3-9
3 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him,“Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?” 4 And He answered and said to them,“Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning (Gen. 1:27)‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said,(Gen.2:24)‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.” 7 They said to Him,“Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?” 8 He said to them,“Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”
Mark 10:11-12
11 So He said to them,“Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her. 12 And if a woman divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery.”
Luke 16:18
“Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced from her husband commits adultery."
Romans 7:1-3
1 Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? 2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man.
1 Corinthians 7:10-16
10 Now to the married I command, yet not I but the Lord: A wife is not to depart from her husband. 11 But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to divorce his wife. 12 But to the rest I, not the Lord, say: If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her. 13 And a woman who has a husband who does not believe, if he is willing to live with her, let her not divorce him. 14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy. 15 But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases. But God has called us to peace. 16 For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?
www.roysecitycoc.org
So, you condone splitting the second marriage, even when kids are involved? Just asking.

Please show me an example of this in the bible. Moreover, show me an example of a second marriage split for the purpose of mending the first marriage.

Btw, I’m not saying I disagree with the verses you posted, just asking questions.

Since: May 10

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#6
Jan 4, 2012
 
regiarc ydnar wrote:
<quoted text>
If a man beats his wife, is it lawful for her to divorce him? I would think so. What say ye?
Christ did not address this said only one exception. So I would say no it is not right to divorce for beating. I would suggest leaving however, and not getting beat.

So is beating the only thing you deem to be lawful for divorce?

What about falling out of Love? or drinking in excess?

Since: Dec 11

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#7
Jan 4, 2012
 
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>Christ did not address this said only one exception. So I would say no it is not right to divorce for beating. I would suggest leaving however, and not getting beat.
So is beating the only thing you deem to be lawful for divorce?
What about falling out of Love? or drinking in excess?
I agree, Jesus did not address other things that result in divorce. I doubt, though, He would tell a woman to stay in a marriage with a man who beats her. As you stated,“leaving” would probably be the best; but, isn’t “leaving” real close to doing the same as in a divorce? The only difference, is a piece of paper.

I’m not condoning divorce, btw.( I divorced on “Scriptural grounds”) However, is divorce not forgivable to those who have not divorced on “scriptural grounds?”

Since: May 10

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#8
Jan 4, 2012
 
regiarc ydnar wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree, Jesus did not address other things that result in divorce. I doubt, though, He would tell a woman to stay in a marriage with a man who beats her. As you stated,“leaving” would probably be the best; but, isn’t “leaving” real close to doing the same as in a divorce? The only difference, is a piece of paper.
I’m not condoning divorce, btw.( I divorced on “Scriptural grounds”) However, is divorce not forgivable to those who have not divorced on “scriptural grounds?”
The problem I have with what you say is that you DOUBT That he would tell a woman...... Christ did address the issue In Matt when he was ask the same question I ask you.

His answer was not to divorce except it be for sexual infidelity. If he said other things let me know.

So how do you advise a reason for divorce when Christ said there was only one reason?
Whitman

Bennettsville, SC

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#9
Jan 4, 2012
 
Shawn HEATH Paden the fake 15 year old kid won't let divorced and remarried people fellowship at Royce City Church Of Christ!!!! It says so on the church website. Jesus said we all could come to Him but Shawn HEATH Paden and the fake Church Of Christ says come to us only if you are good enough for us. HMMMMMM!!!!

Since: May 10

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#10
Jan 4, 2012
 
Whitman wrote:
Shawn HEATH Paden the fake 15 year old kid won't let divorced and remarried people fellowship at Royce City Church Of Christ!!!! It says so on the church website. Jesus said we all could come to Him but Shawn HEATH Paden and the fake Church Of Christ says come to us only if you are good enough for us. HMMMMMM!!!!
Paste what it says on this site for all to see if what you say is true.

Since: Dec 11

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#11
Jan 4, 2012
 
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
The problem I have with what you say is that you DOUBT That he would tell a woman...... Christ did address the issue In Matt when he was ask the same question I ask you.
His answer was not to divorce except it be for sexual infidelity. If he said other things let me know.
So how do you advise a reason for divorce when Christ said there was only one reason?
I agree, He said for only ONE cause.

We also have 10 commandments that “should” be obeyed as Christians. Can a Christian be forgiven if he breaks the laws of God? If so, did Jesus mean “if” you divorce and remarry another, you must DIVORCE AGAIN and return to your first spouse? Or, would He offer forgiveness?

There are many remarriages done for reasons other than what Jesus commands. Some have divorced their first spouse and remarried the second for 10 years or more and have kids in the second marriage. Are you saying Jesus will NOT forgive them unless they DIVORCE the second marriage? If there be little children in the remarriage, are you saying Jesus desires them to undo the “wrong” marriage? I thought Jesus was about love. This is NOT love at all. Love would be extend forgiveness as he does with all commands we break.

Also, do you have a New Testament example where someone was told to leave their second spouse due to the remarriage not being on scriptural grounds?
Whitman

Bennettsville, SC

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#12
Jan 4, 2012
 

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JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
Paste what it says on this site for all to see if what you say is true.
Look!!!!

The command to repent demands that an adulterous marriage must end (Luke 13:1-3; Acts 17:30). Time spent in an unlawful relationship along with children does not make the marriage valid in God’s eyes (Ezra 10:1-17; 1 Cor. 6:9-11). Water baptism will not change an unlawful marriage into a holy marriage since repentance comes before baptism (Acts 2:38).

We truly sympathize with anyone who is in an adulterous marriage, however that person cannot be accepted into our fellowship while they remain in that condition (1 Cor. 5).

While this is a difficult situation, Jesus said we must “deny” ourselves if we wish to follow Him (Matt. 16:24). We stand ready to answer any questions and/or help anyone who wishes to make the hard decision to remove themselves from an adulterous marriage.

http://www.roysecitycoc.org/divorce_remarriag...

Every person divorced and remarried is in adulterous marriage according to Shawn HEATH Paden! If you are you're not good enough to be a Christian and worship Christ according to the fake Church Of Christ of Shawn HEATH Paden, Johnny Robertson, James Oldfield, Mark McMinnis, Micah Robertson.

There it is JustChristian read it for yourself!!!!

Since: Dec 11

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#13
Jan 4, 2012
 

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Whitman wrote:
<quoted text>
Look!!!!
The command to repent demands that an adulterous marriage must end (Luke 13:1-3; Acts 17:30). Time spent in an unlawful relationship along with children does not make the marriage valid in God’s eyes (Ezra 10:1-17; 1 Cor. 6:9-11). Water baptism will not change an unlawful marriage into a holy marriage since repentance comes before baptism (Acts 2:38).
We truly sympathize with anyone who is in an adulterous marriage, however that person cannot be accepted into our fellowship while they remain in that condition (1 Cor. 5).
While this is a difficult situation, Jesus said we must “deny” ourselves if we wish to follow Him (Matt. 16:24). We stand ready to answer any questions and/or help anyone who wishes to make the hard decision to remove themselves from an adulterous marriage.
http://www.roysecitycoc.org/divorce_remarriag...
Every person divorced and remarried is in adulterous marriage according to Shawn HEATH Paden! If you are you're not good enough to be a Christian and worship Christ according to the fake Church Of Christ of Shawn HEATH Paden, Johnny Robertson, James Oldfield, Mark McMinnis, Micah Robertson.
There it is JustChristian read it for yourself!!!!
I'm sorry, but I just do not but Shawns take on this. Ezra 10 is not about this at all. That is scripture twisting at its worse. Nowhere, not one example in the NT shows the practice above. Show me one "remarriage" with kids or without that Paul or anyone commanded to be broken...Shawn, since you have this on yoru website, perhaps you might provide this example.

Since: Dec 11

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#14
Jan 4, 2012
 

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*I'm sorry, but I just do not agree with Shawns take on this. Ezra 10 is not about this at all. That is scripture twisting at its worse. Nowhere, not one example in the NT shows the practice above. Show me one "remarriage" with kids or without that Paul or anyone commanded to be broken...Shawn, since you have this on yoru website, perhaps you might provide this example.
former mms student

Grundy, VA

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#15
Jan 4, 2012
 
Does the qualifications of a Deacon also provide for more then one wife.
1 Timothy 3 11
11 In the same way, their wives are to be women worthy of respect, not malicious talkers but temperate and trustworthy in everything
Seems right above there...a Deacon (Servant)...must be the husband of one wife.
former mms student

Grundy, VA

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#16
Jan 4, 2012
 
HEATH - 72 wrote:
Matthew 5:31-32
31 “Furthermore it has been said,‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery."
Matthew 19:3-9
3 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him,“Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?” 4 And He answered and said to them,“Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning (Gen. 1:27)‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said,(Gen.2:24)‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.” 7 They said to Him,“Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?” 8 He said to them,“Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”
Mark 10:11-12
11 So He said to them,“Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her. 12 And if a woman divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery.”
Luke 16:18
“Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced from her husband commits adultery."
Romans 7:1-3
1 Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? 2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man.
1 Corinthians 7:10-16
10 Now to the married I command, yet not I but the Lord: A wife is not to depart from her husband. 11 But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to divorce his wife. 12 But to the rest I, not the Lord, say: If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her. 13 And a woman who has a husband who does not believe, if he is willing to live with her, let her not divorce him. 14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy. 15 But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases. But God has called us to peace. 16 For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?
www.roysecitycoc.org
I wonder if we marry a woman who isn't a virgin.We can put her away for fornication...seems Adultery is the only way to divorce.

If we live by the Law...lets obey the whole Law.Not just pick and choose certain parts.
Ex Martinsville CoC membr

United States

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#17
Jan 4, 2012
 

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Whitman wrote:
<quoted text>
Look!!!!
The command to repent demands that an adulterous marriage must end (Luke 13:1-3; Acts 17:30). Time spent in an unlawful relationship along with children does not make the marriage valid in God’s eyes (Ezra 10:1-17; 1 Cor. 6:9-11). Water baptism will not change an unlawful marriage into a holy marriage since repentance comes before baptism (Acts 2:38).
We truly sympathize with anyone who is in an adulterous marriage, however that person cannot be accepted into our fellowship while they remain in that condition (1 Cor. 5).
While this is a difficult situation, Jesus said we must “deny” ourselves if we wish to follow Him (Matt. 16:24). We stand ready to answer any questions and/or help anyone who wishes to make the hard decision to remove themselves from an adulterous marriage.
http://www.roysecitycoc.org/divorce_remarriag...
Every person divorced and remarried is in adulterous marriage according to Shawn HEATH Paden! If you are you're not good enough to be a Christian and worship Christ according to the fake Church Of Christ of Shawn HEATH Paden, Johnny Robertson, James Oldfield, Mark McMinnis, Micah Robertson.
There it is JustChristian read it for yourself!!!!
What Mr. Paden is saying is unscriptural, false doctrine, and the same legalism that Jesus came to destroy.
Axe Murderer

Morehead, KY

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#18
Jan 4, 2012
 

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In the COC a man is prevented from serving as a Bishop or Deacon if he has been divorced previously, even if it was for adultery and it was also before he became a Christian. This is because they falsely interpret and teach the term "husband of one wife" as meaning NEVER ever having more than one wife. It is equally as bad to have never married as this also disqualifies you from serving in those capacities. The COC would never allow Jesus nor Paul to be a bishop or Deacon in their church. I have no solution for the unmarried and their desire to serve as Bishop/Deacon but if you are divorced or in a unhappy marriage I have a solution for you. Go down to the hardware store and purchase a sharp axe. Need I say more, as you will no longer have more than "one living wife".It works for me for this reason. The COC considers divorce as the SECOND unpardonable sin. However you can be forgiven of murder. Happy Chopping!!!!

Since: Jul 11

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#19
Jan 4, 2012
 

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According to the Bible, there is only one unforgivable sin:

Matt. 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

BUUUUT, according to the COCINOs, there is two unforgivable sins, the one listed above, and adultery.

I've seen and/or heard of all manner of sinners being admitted into the assembly of COCINOs, except one: an adulterer.

The question I always wonder is this: the COCINOs always say that a person must repent of their sins and then restoration; and to this I agree. But, if a person murders someone, how can they technically repent? Can they bring the dead person back to life? If not, does that mean they cannot repent? No restoration, no repentance, according to the COCINOs.

So, now, what a person must do if they are unscripturally divorced is to divorce again their second partner, have their ex-wife divorce their second partner, thereby destroying two other marriages, and then reconciling the first two together. Now, the persons involved have gone through not one divorce, but three: the first divorce, and then the second two divorces.

How the COCINOs can reconcile all that to the Bible is beyond me. They are always trying to use CENI in their doctrine, EXCEPT when it come to MDR. They don't even try to find an example for MDR, unless you consider their weak attempt to use Ezra 10 as justification.

There's a thread on here already where Ezra 10 has been thoroughly expounded and their use of it dismissed.

Since: Jul 11

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#20
Jan 4, 2012
 
Axe Murderer wrote:
In the COC a man is prevented from serving as a Bishop or Deacon if he has been divorced previously, even if it was for adultery and it was also before he became a Christian. This is because they falsely interpret and teach the term "husband of one wife" as meaning NEVER ever having more than one wife. It is equally as bad to have never married as this also disqualifies you from serving in those capacities. The COC would never allow Jesus nor Paul to be a bishop or Deacon in their church. I have no solution for the unmarried and their desire to serve as Bishop/Deacon but if you are divorced or in a unhappy marriage I have a solution for you. Go down to the hardware store and purchase a sharp axe. Need I say more, as you will no longer have more than "one living wife".It works for me for this reason. The COC considers divorce as the SECOND unpardonable sin. However you can be forgiven of murder. Happy Chopping!!!!
I couldn't agree more. Kill someone? Ah, no big deal. Come on in, serve the LS, and even be a deacon or elder. Divorce? AW HECK NAW! You can't even come in the building at some assemblies.

So, kill your wife, plead insanity and don't serve any or very much time, and then when you get out, become a deacon or elder in a COCINO assembly.

(SN: I am being sarcastic. Please do not kill anyone.)

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