Former Jailer Charged in Death of 3 y...

Former Jailer Charged in Death of 3 yr old

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Constance

United States

#1 Dec 10, 2010
Wow!A "former jailer" charged in murder of 3 yr old boy? I don't take the paper this winter and just now heard about this. My question is at what point was this man a former jailer? At the time he was charged with murder, or had he quit or been fired some time before this tragedy? Violent men should not be in charge of anything where the lives of other people, even County inmates are concerned.

http://www.examiner-enterprise.com/news/
SDGASFD

Lone Grove, OK

#2 Dec 14, 2010
Constance wrote:
Wow!A "former jailer" charged in murder of 3 yr old boy? I don't take the paper this winter and just now heard about this. My question is at what point was this man a former jailer? At the time he was charged with murder, or had he quit or been fired some time before this tragedy? Violent men should not be in charge of anything where the lives of other people, even County inmates are concerned.
http://www.examiner-enterprise.com/news/
This comment is just ignorance shining through. It doesn't even matter that he was a jailer. The point of the story is that he murdered a defenseless child. His occupation is a mute point.
Constance

Tulsa, OK

#3 Dec 14, 2010
SDGASFD wrote:
<quoted text>
This comment is just ignorance shining through. It doesn't even matter that he was a jailer. The point of the story is that he murdered a defenseless child. His occupation is a mute point.
I disagree, the reason being is that all police officers in any branch of service take a sworn oath to serve and protect the public. They are bound by that oath morally and ethically to a higher degree of responsibility than the average person.

So, his occupation is not a moot point at all. Indeed, there are two issues involved here. One is the tragic murder of this little boy,(allegedly by the jailer in question), and the other is his obvious lack of respect of the law as well as the sworn oath he took to uphold that law.

In any case, I think the public is getting fed up with cops on power trips lately who seem to forget they're servants of the public, not the overlords.

The police officers oath:

http://www.emich.edu/cerns/downloads/papers/P...
Same oh same oh

United States

#4 Dec 15, 2010
Well there is a difference between a jailer and a police officer. Police officers go to an academy and learn the laws and take a sworn oath to protect the public.

Unfortunately jailers in smaller departments do not go to an academy. They are trained on the job. Sometimes they are not trained by the best possible person but buy the person that has been there the longest. This is not always the best procedure.

Jailers do not make as much money as a police officer. The turn over rate is generally high. Jailers tend to be made up of two types of people. Those wanting to get in the door of law enforcement and eventually be hired as a police officer and those that want to control people and have a power trip problem.

I think there should be a more stringent highering process for jailers. Maybe all county jails should be like Tulsa county. You have to get hired and attend the police academy. You then work your way out to a patrol car when an opening becomes available.

Maybe a psychological evaluation that police officers have to take would have weeded this man out or at least put him on their radar.

Or maybe just maybe there are bad people out there in every walk of life. If we keep that in mind we can focus on the more impotant things such as the loss of a childs life at the hands of an adult that was suppose to be protecting him. Not rather he was a pizza deliveryman or cashier or a glorified baby sitter of disfunctional adults.

Just saying
Constance

Tulsa, OK

#5 Dec 16, 2010
If what you're saying is true about the distinction between a jailer,and a police officer, or deputy, then I agree, there does need to be a more stringent hiring process. In fact a psychological evaluation for all law enforcement personnel,in all capacities might be a good idea, especially considering the weight of responsibility they carry in they're duties.

Finally, in regard to the last part of your post....yes, agreed, and that being the case I wonder what the mother's responsibility is in the case of this little boy's death? Considering there has been almost an epidemic of live in boyfriends harming, molesting or killing the children of these some of these mothers.
Just another one

United States

#6 Dec 16, 2010
SDGASFD wrote:
<quoted text>
This comment is just ignorance shining through. It doesn't even matter that he was a jailer. The point of the story is that he murdered a defenseless child. His occupation is a mute point.
Other than it is a track record of "Bartlesville officials" who think they are above the law and expected to be held to at least as high a standard as anyone else? Turning ones head of officers illegal acts is where the ignorance lies.
Just another one

United States

#7 Dec 16, 2010
Same oh same oh wrote:
Well there is a difference between a jailer and a police officer. Police officers go to an academy and learn the laws and take a sworn oath to protect the public.
Unfortunately jailers in smaller departments do not go to an academy. They are trained on the job. Sometimes they are not trained by the best possible person but buy the person that has been there the longest. This is not always the best procedure.
Jailers do not make as much money as a police officer. The turn over rate is generally high. Jailers tend to be made up of two types of people. Those wanting to get in the door of law enforcement and eventually be hired as a police officer and those that want to control people and have a power trip problem.
I think there should be a more stringent highering process for jailers. Maybe all county jails should be like Tulsa county. You have to get hired and attend the police academy. You then work your way out to a patrol car when an opening becomes available.
Maybe a psychological evaluation that police officers have to take would have weeded this man out or at least put him on their radar.
Or maybe just maybe there are bad people out there in every walk of life. If we keep that in mind we can focus on the more impotant things such as the loss of a childs life at the hands of an adult that was suppose to be protecting him. Not rather he was a pizza deliveryman or cashier or a glorified baby sitter of disfunctional adults.
Just saying
I am not sure of the criteria for a jailer and what alleged training they go through in Bartlesville. I do know for a fact that a man who worked in for the BPD as a dog catcher is considered and documented as a police officer the same as one who works the street in a cruiser.
SDGASFD

Lone Grove, OK

#8 Dec 17, 2010
Just another one wrote:
<quoted text>
I am not sure of the criteria for a jailer and what alleged training they go through in Bartlesville. I do know for a fact that a man who worked in for the BPD as a dog catcher is considered and documented as a police officer the same as one who works the street in a cruiser.
If you are saying that the Bartlesville dog catcher is considered to be a police officer, than you are 100% wrong. He is not a police officer. He has no power to arrest and he doesn't carry a gun. He can write tickets (in reference to animals), but that is all. He might, on his own time voluteer as a reserve officer, don't know if he does or not, but that is completely seperate from his duty as dog catcher. He works under the police department, but that is all. To say that he is an officer is the same as saying that code enforcement are police officers. It's NOT the same.
The same is true for Washington County corrections officers. They are not law officers. They are not CLEET certified and they do not uphold the laws of the state,(or the city for that matter.) They cannot walk outside the walls of the jail and arrest you for any reason whatsoever. They cannot even write you a ticket. Their job is to babysit the degenerates of Washington County.
SDGASFD

Lone Grove, OK

#9 Dec 17, 2010
Just another one wrote:
<quoted text>
Other than it is a track record of "Bartlesville officials" who think they are above the law and expected to be held to at least as high a standard as anyone else? Turning ones head of officers illegal acts is where the ignorance lies.
This man would not even be considered a "Bartlesville official." He had no power in any decision making that went on in Washington County, or in Bartlesville for that matter. He was no more important in this town than a Wal-mart employee or the clerk at Sears. And I'm pretty sure that no one is turning their heads at what he has done. He is sitting in jail awaiting trail for MURDER 1. Doesn't get much more blinding than that. You are trying to turn this into a discussion about how horrible B'ville's officials are, but this story doesn't back that claim. The facts show, this is nothing more than a regular citizen that has possibly done something unthinkable to a child.
Constance

Tulsa, OK

#10 Dec 17, 2010
SDGASFD wrote:
<quoted text>
This man would not even be considered a "Bartlesville official." He had no power in any decision making that went on in Washington County, or in Bartlesville for that matter. He was no more important in this town than a Wal-mart employee or the clerk at Sears. And I'm pretty sure that no one is turning their heads at what he has done. He is sitting in jail awaiting trail for MURDER 1. Doesn't get much more blinding than that. You are trying to turn this into a discussion about how horrible B'ville's officials are, but this story doesn't back that claim. The facts show, this is nothing more than a regular citizen that has possibly done something unthinkable to a child.
You seem to be implying there is a distinction going on here between jailers and police officers insofar as training, on one hand, and then proceed to make condescending remarks toward pizza delivery persons, cashiers, "glorified babysitters of dysfunctional adults",(caregivers, I presume),and call animal control officers "dog catchers", as well those who are incarcerated as "degenerates", clerk at Sears, Walmart employee. No matter whether he's a jailer, or has higher credentials more acceptable to you, he's still entitled to a fair trial by his peers.

I still maintain that if a doctor, lawyer, public official, prominent citizen, and yes, police officers, or anyone who has any type of authority or responsibility over others is expected to take the higher ground ethically and morally, and it is a shock when some one in that position is accused of a crime, especially a heinous one where a child is concerned. Why else did the Bartlesville Examiner Enterprise have the headline, "Former Jailer" accused of Murder?
Same oh same oh

United States

#11 Dec 18, 2010
Constance wrote:
<quoted text>
You seem to be implying there is a distinction going on here between jailers and police officers insofar as training, on one hand, and then proceed to make condescending remarks toward pizza delivery persons, cashiers, "glorified babysitters of dysfunctional adults",(caregivers, I presume),and call animal control officers "dog catchers", as well those who are incarcerated as "degenerates", clerk at Sears, Walmart employee. No matter whether he's a jailer, or has higher credentials more acceptable to you, he's still entitled to a fair trial by his peers.
I still maintain that if a doctor, lawyer, public official, prominent citizen, and yes, police officers, or anyone who has any type of authority or responsibility over others is expected to take the higher ground ethically and morally, and it is a shock when some one in that position is accused of a crime, especially a heinous one where a child is concerned. Why else did the Bartlesville Examiner Enterprise have the headline, "Former Jailer" accused of Murder?
It does not matter a person's station in life. I don't hold a doctor, lawyer, public official, etc to a higher standard. I do not care the level of training or edeucation they have either. Its not a status thing its a human thing.

The focus should be that a human being was insensitive and heinous enough to harm a defenseless child regardless of his profession. It doesn't add more weight or make the story that much more severe.

I was disgusted enough to learn a defenseless child was not protected and had to suffer such a horrible death. I never thought of his job "It doesn't matter! A child died! period".

This is the problem with our country. Everyone wants to find someone to blame or sue for their problems in life and not look at themselves or the person first.

If we were to use your way of thinking. Lets not stop at his job. Lets blame the mother for brining a strange man into her house who she hardly knew and leaving him in care of the child. Lets not stop there maybe we should blame the government. She couldn't afford to live on her own and support her child so she needed to bring someone in to help in child care. Lets not stop there I'm sure the school system failed him and her. She didn't get enough training on child rearing and man selection in homec. He probably wasn't taught to channel his aggression in after school activites or maybe he was let to slide with his anger problems because he was a good athelete. We should probably blame mom and dad to on both sides they probably didn't give enough hugs and kisses as children. Lets throw the hospital staff in there to they probably didn't make his mother's laborer comfortable enough and it started him on this downward spiral to where we are today. etc etc etc etc etc..........Where does it stop?
SDGASFD

Long Beach, MS

#12 Dec 19, 2010
Constance wrote:
<quoted text>
You seem to be implying there is a distinction going on here between jailers and police officers insofar as training, on one hand, and then proceed to make condescending remarks toward pizza delivery persons, cashiers, "glorified babysitters of dysfunctional adults",(caregivers, I presume),and call animal control officers "dog catchers", as well those who are incarcerated as "degenerates", clerk at Sears, Walmart employee. No matter whether he's a jailer, or has higher credentials more acceptable to you, he's still entitled to a fair trial by his peers.
I still maintain that if a doctor, lawyer, public official, prominent citizen, and yes, police officers, or anyone who has any type of authority or responsibility over others is expected to take the higher ground ethically and morally, and it is a shock when some one in that position is accused of a crime, especially a heinous one where a child is concerned. Why else did the Bartlesville Examiner Enterprise have the headline, "Former Jailer" accused of Murder?
I don't believe I was being condescending at all. I never said there was anything wrong with being a Walmart employee or a cashier. And I certainly didn't mean anything by calling the animal control officer a "dog catcher". You apparantly need to reread my comment, because there was not anything about pizza delivery men, and don't even know where you got anything about "glorified babysitters of dysfunctional adults?

I was only stating the facts, because you seem to be under the impression that the crime is worse because it involved a detention officer. As if his job made this crime more unbearable. I guess to you, if he had been a pizza delivery man, than it would have made more sense. Maybe thats why Lindsey Fiddler is only being charged with child neglect after putting her baby into a washing machine. It's because she didn't have a good job.
Seriously,All humans are capable of evil. It doesn't matter who they are or what they do.
Constance

Tulsa, OK

#13 Dec 20, 2010
SDGASFD wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't believe I was being condescending at all. I never said there was anything wrong with being a Walmart employee or a cashier. And I certainly didn't mean anything by calling the animal control officer a "dog catcher". You apparantly need to reread my comment, because there was not anything about pizza delivery men, and don't even know where you got anything about "glorified babysitters of dysfunctional adults?
I was only stating the facts, because you seem to be under the impression that the crime is worse because it involved a detention officer. As if his job made this crime more unbearable. I guess to you, if he had been a pizza delivery man, than it would have made more sense. Maybe thats why Lindsey Fiddler is only being charged with child neglect after putting her baby into a washing machine. It's because she didn't have a good job.

Seriously,All humans are capable of evil. It doesn't matter who they are or what they do.
The man who is charged with brutally murdering a defenseless little boy will go to trial for that, and not for being a jailer, for pete's sake!

It's total nonsense to switch the subject over to Lyndsey Fiddler which has nothing whatever to do with this issue.
Constance

Tulsa, OK

#14 Dec 20, 2010
SDGASFD wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't believe I was being condescending at all. I never said there was anything wrong with being a Walmart employee or a cashier. And I certainly didn't mean anything by calling the animal control officer a "dog catcher". You apparantly need to reread my comment, because there was not anything about pizza delivery men, and don't even know where you got anything about "glorified babysitters of dysfunctional adults?
I was only stating the facts, because you seem to be under the impression that the crime is worse because it involved a detention officer. As if his job made this crime more unbearable. I guess to you, if he had been a pizza delivery man, than it would have made more sense. Maybe thats why Lindsey Fiddler is only being charged with child neglect after putting her baby into a washing machine. It's because she didn't have a good job.
Seriously,All humans are capable of evil. It doesn't matter who they are or what they do.
This was part 1 of my original post, which neither one of you debaters responded to. Come to find out, he didn't become a "FORMER JAILER" until he was arrested.

Part 1.
"My question is at what point was this man a former jailer? At the time he was charged with murder, or had he quit or been fired some time before this tragedy?

(The murder of a small 3 yr old boy by an adult male who used lethal force against the child IS the main focus here, and he will stand trial and pay for the crime if found guilty, not for being a jailer. However, it doesn't get Washington County Sheriff's Dept off the hook for hiring this guy in the first place, nor for not firing him until he was arrested. Obviously, he had not been well screened before hiring, and from all indications the bar is lowered with WCSD when hiring jailers.)

Part 2.
"Violent men should not be in charge of anything where the lives of other people, even County inmates are concerned."

(They shouldn't be, whether it's inmates, but most especially a small defenseless child!
Pizza Delivery people, Sears clerks, Walmart employees, etc don't have authority over people behind bars, with the possiblity of being able to harm them by virtue of their job.

This is just a small part of a much larger picture. It used to be "the friendly cop on the beat", who was there to help and protect people now it seems to be morphing over too much into "cops on power trips" that think they're God and the overlords of citizens. You don't have to google very far to come up with an example like this. http://highbridnation.com/2008/02/17/ridiculo... )
GetAGrip

Long Beach, MS

#15 Dec 22, 2010
Constance wrote:
<quoted text>
This was part 1 of my original post, which neither one of you debaters responded to. Come to find out, he didn't become a "FORMER JAILER" until he was arrested.
Part 1.
"My question is at what point was this man a former jailer? At the time he was charged with murder, or had he quit or been fired some time before this tragedy?
(The murder of a small 3 yr old boy by an adult male who used lethal force against the child IS the main focus here, and he will stand trial and pay for the crime if found guilty, not for being a jailer. However, it doesn't get Washington County Sheriff's Dept off the hook for hiring this guy in the first place, nor for not firing him until he was arrested. Obviously, he had not been well screened before hiring, and from all indications the bar is lowered with WCSD when hiring jailers.)
Part 2.
"Violent men should not be in charge of anything where the lives of other people, even County inmates are concerned."
(They shouldn't be, whether it's inmates, but most especially a small defenseless child!
Pizza Delivery people, Sears clerks, Walmart employees, etc don't have authority over people behind bars, with the possiblity of being able to harm them by virtue of their job.
This is just a small part of a much larger picture. It used to be "the friendly cop on the beat", who was there to help and protect people now it seems to be morphing over too much into "cops on power trips" that think they're God and the overlords of citizens. You don't have to google very far to come up with an example like this. http://highbridnation.com/2008/02/17/ridiculo... )
I didn't realize there was a way to screen out potential child abusers. If u know of a long lost secret please share with the rest of the world. We could save a lot of kids. U apparently have a problem with cops. U have a lot of negative things to say about them. But what u don't bother to say is for every bad cop story u put out there, there are 1000 lives saved.
Constance

Tulsa, OK

#16 Dec 23, 2010
GetAGrip wrote:
<quoted text> I didn't realize there was a way to screen out potential child abusers. If u know of a long lost secret please share with the rest of the world. We could save a lot of kids. U apparently have a problem with cops. U have a lot of negative things to say about them. But what u don't bother to say is for every bad cop story u put out there, there are 1000 lives saved.
Of course there is no 100% fool proof way of screening out potential child abusers, sexual molesting teachers, pediphiles, corrupt politicians, bad cops, or whatever. I don't have a problem with police per se, however I do start becoming concerned when I see a trend in the growing number of cops on power trips. Why this has become a trend, I'm not sure, but I'm not the only one that's noticed it.

Reminding police, who are not only in a position of authority to uphold the law, that they are also to be under the scrutiny of the law, never hurt anyone.
Police are public servants, not overlords.
SDGASFD

Lone Grove, OK

#17 Dec 30, 2010
"(The murder of a small 3 yr old boy by an adult male who used lethal force against the child IS the main focus here, and he will stand trial and pay for the crime if found guilty, not for being a jailer. However, it doesn't get Washington County Sheriff's Dept off the hook for hiring this guy in the first place, nor for not firing him until he was arrested. Obviously, he had not been well screened before hiring, and from all indications the bar is lowered with WCSD when hiring jailers.)" This doesn't even make since. Washington County would not have any way of knowing that this man was capable of this crime, unless he had comitted a crime similar in the past. You can't look at a child abuser and know that they would hurt a child. Do you that if they would have asked him, he would have answered, "Yes, I do like to beat children." And as far as the jailer not being fired until after he was arrested, why would they fire him before? He had done nothing wrong before he was arrested. Do you think the Sheriff was aware that this man had broken the back of a 3 yr old boy before this time? I bet they sat in his office and swapped stories about it and laughed. You make NO valid points. You are talking out your a$$.
Constance

Claremore, OK

#18 Dec 30, 2010
SDGASFD wrote:
"(The murder of a small 3 yr old boy by an adult male who used lethal force against the child IS the main focus here, and he will stand trial and pay for the crime if found guilty, not for being a jailer. However, it doesn't get Washington County Sheriff's Dept off the hook for hiring this guy in the first place, nor for not firing him until he was arrested. Obviously, he had not been well screened before hiring, and from all indications the bar is lowered with WCSD when hiring jailers.)" This doesn't even make since. Washington County would not have any way of knowing that this man was capable of this crime, unless he had comitted a crime similar in the past. You can't look at a child abuser and know that they would hurt a child. Do you that if they would have asked him, he would have answered, "Yes, I do like to beat children." And as far as the jailer not being fired until after he was arrested, why would they fire him before? He had done nothing wrong before he was arrested. Do you think the Sheriff was aware that this man had broken the back of a 3 yr old boy before this time? I bet they sat in his office and swapped stories about it and laughed. You make NO valid points. You are talking out your a$$.
It's ridiculous making such absurd far out comparisons. My post made some very valid points. We all have to make judgment calls every day of our lives that will turn out either for good or not. For example, whether choosing a doctor, dentist, car mechanic, or a marriage partner, we have to try and examine their track record, character, honesty, and so on.

One of the huge responsibilities of law enforcement is to make good judgment calls, and that should include those doing the hiring.

All human services personel know how important it is when hiring to try and evaluate all aspects of the potential employee's character, including their temperament. It's simply hard for me to believe that this guy slipped under the radar so well that he was able to hide his aggressive nature. This type of behavior doesn't simply happen over night.

Let me make one thing clear here. I'm not blaming the Sheriff or whom ever hired this jailer. All I'm pointing out is that they can and should do more careful screening of all employees who have any kind of authority over the public at large. Authority carries a very heavy weight of responsibility.
GetAGrip

Garden City, MI

#19 Jan 1, 2011
There are thousands of people out there that are one way in public and another in private. One example would be the BTK killer from Kansas. He was an elder in his church. He was married with children. He was employed as a code enforcement officer. No one, not even his wife and children, were aware that he was murdering innocent women during his spare time. It's called a wolf in sheeps clothing. And Constance yes, you are blaming the sheriffs dept. U said quote "it doesn't get the washington county sheriffs department off the hook for hiring this guy in the first place, nor for not firing him before he was arrested." That is blame.
Constance

Claremore, OK

#20 Jan 1, 2011
Taking my words out of context, and using the BTK killer as a case in point is an absurd way of trying to establish your point, lol!

You may want to run this thread into the ground to grind whatever axe you have, but I've said what I intended to say, that there needs to be more careful screening when hiring anyone who has any type of authority over others,(LIKE THIS JAILER DID), whether they're an inmate at the city or county jail, an average citizen, or a helpless child.

Just please don't tell me there weren't some warning signals involved with this guy. For example, were references checked out carefully? Past employment record, school records, associates, past relationships, besides the gal he was shacked with at the time? Is that so unbearably difficult in your opinion?

It's no coincidence after the fact of most these types of events where some guy went postal or committed a violent act, that some person that knew the individual will come forward with information that described problems in his or her life that may have indicated potential trouble.

If you're comfy with sloppy hiring practices and letting potential nutcases slip under the radar, then live with it. You can expect a lot more of it down the line if someone,(and that means the public, who pay the salaries of these people), doesn't hold them accountable to do their duty, without getting on a power trip because of whatever malfunction they happen to have.

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