Bible study rules for public schools ...

Bible study rules for public schools proposed

There are 159660 comments on the The Courier-Journal story from Feb 10, 2010, titled Bible study rules for public schools proposed. In it, The Courier-Journal reports that:

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Courier-Journal.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#135932 Aug 14, 2014
AAA wrote:
<quoted text>
Well Mike and a few other of the evolutional topix geniuses on here must be "way smarter" than those scientist because they say they have evidence, even though it is not fact they've gathered enough non factual evidence that it evolved into fact, therefore it is fact, and they have factual/proof evolution of species is fact! LOL!!
So should we listen to renown scientist, or self proclaimed topix scientist who have evolved their non-factual evidence into fact?
,,,,,,and what about their doubt? How does their doubt fit into their non-factual evolved factual facts? Mike says we're too ignorant to understand the way his non-factual evidence evolved into fact,,, or wait a minute,,, was it we're too ignorant to understand that non-factual evidence turns into fact as long as enough people theorize that those non-factual evidence turns into fact?? LOL!!
Quoting from a cherry picked quote cited in a blog from the Institute for Creation Research doesn't help your case. It just shows you to be in denial so deeply that you are either unwilling or incapable of being honest.
Do you even wonder what the fruit fly reference is about? I can take a guess. An american species of fruit fly which feeds on hawthorn fruit switched to eating European apples. Those flies no longer associate with the original strain and this is in line with evolution and speciation - it is in fact one of your "long lost" transitional species. ToE predicts that accumulated mutations over a number of generations will alter the two sets of fruit flies to the point that they will no longer be genetically capable of producing viable offspring. That is inevitable - and fruit flies never read the Origin of Species. Even If fruit flies were the only example you would be proven wrong but unfortunately for you, it is not.

“I'll think about it.”

Since: Nov 07

central Florida

#135933 Aug 14, 2014
Yes and Amen wrote:
We do have something... a Relationship with our God!
Repent... you can have one too!
No thanks.

I prefer the relationship I have with Reality.

You can keep your imaginary, invisible friend all to yourself.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#135934 Aug 14, 2014
AAA wrote:
<quoted text>You have evidence that an evolutionist has researched and then theorized about it, and not all evolutionist come up with the same THEORY!
Creationist also have the same evidence that they have researched and theorized, coming up with several different theories.
Yet,, you want evolution of species taught as fact in classrooms when there is NO fact/proof to back it up!
That would be hypocritical for you to be against the religion of Christianity to be taught in schools, and be for the religion of evolution.
I myself, am against both. I do not think any religion should be taught in schools,, however I am for the Bible Study classes that are taking place in public school systems in my area. I'm not even against the THEORY of evolution being taught as a THEORY, just against it being taught as fact, like several school books portray it!
In my opinion the THEORY of evolution turns more students to the Bible searching for answers, because no matter how you spin it,, the lack of evidence and the THEORY of nothing+nothing = everything in the universe today is just crazy!!
Evolutionists that come up with different conclusions to evidence do not have what is known as a scientific theory. It would be called a hypothesis. You see, even when Darwin came up with the concept of evolution, it was called a hypothesis until enough evidence could be gathered to show it was fact. At that point it could earn the title, scientific theory. You keep using the word theory in a layman way. A theory for laymen are not scientific theories. The two are dramatically different. For some reason creationist cannot comprehend this concept. Probably why most people think you guys are just ignorant hicks now a days.

Since: Feb 14

Location hidden

#135935 Aug 14, 2014
Hammer wrote:
<quoted text>
Well said. I agree wholeheartedly.
I Vote Me, pusherman
For President

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#135936 Aug 14, 2014
great minds wrote:
Where is the proof that apes turned into humans?
Despite the evidence being pathetic, even if you claim the title of World's Biggest Optimist, evolutionists still tell the story that once upon a time humans evolved from ape-like creatures.
Many years ago this argument seemed credible to a lot of people because there was so little hominid fossil evidence that it was easy to imagine evolutionary links everywhere.
But things have changed. Thousands of fossils and fossil fragments of apes and humans have now been found — and they don't show a steady progression from apes to humans at all. Fossils have been found in the wrong time-frames, put into the wrong categories before all the evidence was in, and what was once thought to be the ape-human family tree now actually has no trunk — just unconnected branches.
Because evolutionists can't change their theory, they are stuck with the evidence looking more confusing for them with each new hominid/homin/hominine fossil discovery. Instead of clarifying the alleged link between apes and humans, new fossil discoveries are making it harder to show which type of ape or ape-like creature evolved into a human.
For more information on ape fossils making monkeys out of humans, see the article Humans are not descended from apes.
Sorry, but you are wrong. All hominid fossils point to an ape ancestor. If you wish to try and show they are ancestors of another sort of animal, or of no animal, be my guest.

Can I ask, just how do the other hominids fall into the biblical narrative? I do not recall the bible even mentioning Neanderthals.
Clearly some higher intelligent animals made things like hand axe tools to butcher animals as far back as 3.4 million years ago. That dates back to the days of "Lucy". Normal humans deduce the connection.
Now just what does the bible say about these creatures?

Since: Feb 14

Location hidden

#135937 Aug 14, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>
Evolutionists that come up with different conclusions to evidence do not have what is known as a scientific theory. It would be called a hypothesis. You see, even when Darwin came up with the concept of evolution, it was called a hypothesis until enough evidence could be gathered to show it was fact. At that point it could earn the title, scientific theory. You keep using the word theory in a layman way. A theory for laymen are not scientific theories. The two are dramatically different. For some reason creationist cannot comprehend this concept. Probably why most people think you guys are just ignorant hicks now a days.
They're relying on Abiogenesis ( life from non life ), which is Not a fact!
Do you really think that life from non life can create such awareness, such Intelligence to even begin comprehending about the creator ? If you do then you need to rethink your thinking IMO!
physics and mathematical understanding can only go so far back, they have never reach the point of BANG! which doesn't mean they want some day, but they might discover something they wished they hadn't! They have NEVER ruled out a creator, as it is now, they never will simply because the Intelligence of man doesn't have the understanding of that Instant yet, it's still o/side of physics and mathematical understanding.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#135938 Aug 14, 2014
great minds wrote:
One thing that I find Very interesting is the arrogance of the people that are arguing for evolution. Those who are arguing for Creationism are asking a very simple question, and that is how do you explain the beginning? Nothing wrong with that, but instead of trying to explain it, all you guys are doing is getting defensive and goin "oh, well you guys are just as dumb!"
.
If you could only show the creationist are simply asking a question instead of insisting they are right and science is wrong, your argument might be valid. But that is not the case at all, and if you think it is, then you are ignorant of a clear fact.
The big problem I see from creationists is, they do not ask questions. If they do, they do not listen to the answer, or just knee jerk reject it without any even showing an understanding of the answer.
No creationists on this thread even understand what a scientific theory or hypothesis is.

A question is not what is to be taught in schools as science. At least not at the basic levels of public school. There are enough facts to present to the students to fill the time. If they have questions about them, fine. But that does not mean government should propose a question of creationism that is born of religious dogma. For one, it has no facts to back it up, and two, it is religion. The courts have determined this in the case to teach intelligent design in public schools.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#135939 Aug 14, 2014
pusherman_ wrote:
<quoted text>
They're relying on Abiogenesis ( life from non life ), which is Not a fact!
Do you really think that life from non life can create such awareness, such Intelligence to even begin comprehending about the creator ? If you do then you need to rethink your thinking IMO!
physics and mathematical understanding can only go so far back, they have never reach the point of BANG! which doesn't mean they want some day, but they might discover something they wished they hadn't! They have NEVER ruled out a creator, as it is now, they never will simply because the Intelligence of man doesn't have the understanding of that Instant yet, it's still o/side of physics and mathematical understanding.
Evolution has no reliance on how life came to be. In fact, many who believe in evolution believe god planted the seed of life on earth. That idea is also devoid of evidence, but it changes nothing about the facts of evolution.

By your reasoning, science should not be able to determine anything of nature unless it knows all the answers to the beginning of everything. And that is just silly. But it does explain a bit about why you accept religions answers.
spaceship

Rancho Cordova, CA

#135940 Aug 14, 2014
How a name for a deity may have been chosen.

The Cargo Cult had a name for the diety in heaven. He was called John Fromm.

It is not certain how this name arose but quite possibly it was from American soldiers identifying themselves by their place of origin: i.e., I am John from Indiana or I am John from Minneapolis.

Some clever business began marketing products under the name John Fromm. For example, soap bars were labeled John Fromm Soap. When it was a choice between ordinary soap and God's soap, it was no contest. It was clear which one would get you heavenly clean.

http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/cargocult...
spaceship

Rancho Cordova, CA

#135941 Aug 14, 2014
Now I can see how some think Jesus name was " I AM"

The Cargo Cult had a name for the diety in heaven. He was called John Fromm.

"I am John from Indiana or I am John from Minneapolis."

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#135942 Aug 14, 2014
great minds wrote:
Finally, a key component that we all are missing in this discussion is faith. I am a man of very very little faith, that is why it is impossible for me to believe in something as extreme as evolution. Those of you that have come to the point where you feel that evolution is a 100 percent fact have obviously seen and fully understand the complex nature of the brain, let alone the entire human body. I have done very little studying in regards to the human body and the brain, but I have seen enough of its complexitites to understand that chance and luck and "mutations" could not, under any circumstance, happen. I do, however, find more certainty in the idea that we were put together with a purpose. If you choose to believe that your life has no purpose, I feel bad for you
.
As I said in my last post, science need not know all the answers to determine evolution as true. You are showing a serious lack of understanding of evolution at this point by your statement here.
It does not help that you openly state your lack of studies on the human body. The more one knows about it, the less mysterious it seems, and it becomes more easier to understand how it evolved from ancient apes.
Maybe if humans had little to no similarities to apes, you would have a better case. At this point, you really have made no case, just reasons why you personally reject the known science of the day. It does not bode well for your claimed education.
If you think it should be out of bounds to question your intelligence, you are in la la land. That is some pretty wishful thinking.

I would like to point out, you are clearly not simply asking questions about life, you are already insisting on absolute claims. Now if you could prove your claims with evidence, it might be taught in public schools. But as of now, you have none I am sure.
Curious

Winter Garden, FL

#135943 Aug 14, 2014
aWitchintheWoods wrote:
<quoted text>
No thanks.
I prefer the relationship I have with Reality.
You can keep your imaginary, invisible friend all to yourself.
According to the many studies,the relationship that atheists have with reality is composed of

Highest rate of suicide than any other faith

Highest alcohol and drug addiction than any other faith

Highest degree of mental problems than any other faith

Feeling lonely and abandoned when they deconvert

Need I go on?

If that is what turns you on, go for it

BTW We don't have an imaginary,invisible friend. That is the dribble,gibberish and propaganda spread by the mentally feeble.

Our God lives,Our God Reigns and Jesus Christ is Lord

And no amount of illconceived propaganda by atheists will change our beliefs.
Nothing from nothing will get you nothing And that is all you have

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#135944 Aug 14, 2014
great minds wrote:
Finally, a key component that we all are missing in this discussion is faith. I am a man of very very little faith, that is why it is impossible for me to believe in something as extreme as evolution. Those of you that have come to the point where you feel that evolution is a 100 percent fact have obviously seen and fully understand the complex nature of the brain, let alone the entire human body. I have done very little studying in regards to the human body and the brain, but I have seen enough of its complexitites to understand that chance and luck and "mutations" could not, under any circumstance, happen. I do, however, find more certainty in the idea that we were put together with a purpose. If you choose to believe that your life has no purpose, I feel bad for you
Luck and mutations cannot develope all of the neural pathways within our system. That is just ONE thing that could never happen by chance. All you "scientists" out there that know all of these complex bodily fuctions and still feel that macroevolution holds some type of sense are ignoring common sense and dedicating all of your time to finding more and more complex examples and explanations that encompass everything that didnt make sense in the first place, until you have spun a web so thick of exceptions and possibilities and "this could have happened a long time ago" that almost no one in the scientific community agrees on everything.
All this comes down to is arrogance. People that know all they do and still feel creation is impossible are people who refuse to accept that there is a higher power. You people will have prayer coming your way, and I hope that when people come to you with the fact of Creation through Intellegent Design, you will attempt to answer the arguments with facts, not finger pointing.
So you call us arrogant and ignoring common sense, then accuse us of finger pointing? How ironic.
Why is it that creationists cannot see contradictions and hypocrisy?

Claiming the formation of neurons cannot occur naturally when you admittedly have little understanding of the human body, is the height of arrogance from ignorance.
Luck and mutations is not the only way to evolution. You seem to forget the thing called, natural selection.
Clearly your ignorance of the science of evolution is a problem.
Do you also walk into rocket science labs and tell them they have no common sense?

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#135945 Aug 14, 2014
great minds wrote:
I would also like to point out that there is no such thing as evolution; things adapt, for instance, if you look at different kinds of dogs, people would say that they have evolved from wolfs; this is NOT evolution, this is merely a God given trait, to allow different animals to adapt to their environment, if you take away the stimulus that originally changed the animal from its original state, the animal (after many generations) will return the its original state; this is called the adaptation cycle.
I quote: Like will give rise to like.
Meaning that frogs will never be birds, pigs will never fly, cats will never have gills and humans will never be better than what we are now; that’s the way the world is, that’s the way God made use, if we are the product of pond scum, then why do monkeys have 2 more chromosomes than us, or did monkeys come from us. If monkeys came from us, then why would the seem to be climbing down the evolutionary (so to speak) why is it so hard to believe that there is a God, and that he loves you and wants you to be happy he wants to live an eternity with you, and all you have to do is believe that made the ultimate sacrifice for you.....that’s it lady's and gentlemen.
P.S. If you believe in evolution, and not in the Bible, then you are DEFINITELY not going any where but hell, if you believe in evolution then you may as well live up life now, because when you die, it's only going to get worse for you.
Science does not claim humans came from monkeys. But thanks for showing more ignorance of the theory of evolution.
I see you are not really asking questions, but are more like claims. Kind of throws a monkey wrench(pun intended) in your claims of simply asking questions.
I do not think schools should teach the children that believing the science of the day(evolution) and not believing the bible would result in burning for eternity.
You see, that would be religious indoctrination. Threatening to promote belief is immoral.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#135946 Aug 14, 2014
great minds wrote:
I would also like to point out that there is no such thing as evolution; things adapt, for instance, if you look at different kinds of dogs, people would say that they have evolved from wolfs; this is NOT evolution, this is merely a God given trait, to allow different animals to adapt to their environment, if you take away the stimulus that originally changed the animal from its original state, the animal (after many generations) will return the its original state; this is called the adaptation cycle.
I quote: Like will give rise to like.
Meaning that frogs will never be birds, pigs will never fly, cats will never have gills and humans will never be better than what we are now; that’s the way the world is, that’s the way God made use, if we are the product of pond scum, then why do monkeys have 2 more chromosomes than us, or did monkeys come from us. If monkeys came from us, then why would the seem to be climbing down the evolutionary (so to speak) why is it so hard to believe that there is a God, and that he loves you and wants you to be happy he wants to live an eternity with you, and all you have to do is believe that made the ultimate sacrifice for you.....that’s it lady's and gentlemen.
P.S. If you believe in evolution, and not in the Bible, then you are DEFINITELY not going any where but hell, if you believe in evolution then you may as well live up life now, because when you die, it's only going to get worse for you.
Maybe look at it this way. A "kind" came to be and over the course of half a billion years, humans called the things it adapted to and changed, different species.
Evolution contends all life is from one kind in the beginning. This kind adapted and branched out in different families and they adapted differently due to their environment. Different families lived in different environments, so they had to adapt different things to survive.
Humans are simply putting these things in categories. But again, in the end, they are all related from one kind.
Curious

Winter Garden, FL

#135947 Aug 14, 2014
spaceship wrote:
Now I can see how some think Jesus name was " I AM"
The Cargo Cult had a name for the diety in heaven. He was called John Fromm.
"I am John from Indiana or I am John from Minneapolis."
Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaah
You are not John from Indiana or John from Minnesota

You are a nut from CALIFORNIA and Planters Peanuts is looking for such as you ,so they can package you and sell you at local walmart outlets.
Attention Walmart Shoppers , nuts for sale on aisle 3 begins in 15 minutes

Since: Feb 14

Location hidden

#135948 Aug 14, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>
Evolution has no reliance on how life came to be. In fact, many who believe in evolution believe god planted the seed of life on earth. That idea is also devoid of evidence, but it changes nothing about the facts of evolution.
By your reasoning, science should not be able to determine anything of nature unless it knows all the answers to the beginning of everything. And that is just silly. But it does explain a bit about why you accept religions answers.
Absolutely not! I am big fan of science, you should have gotten that by my post you replied to.
You're right about that also but you're to busy running your mouth trying to talk fact, that it eludes you.
It has nothing to do with my acceptance of religion. I do NOT accept religion at all, it's a lie..
Evolution as you talk it has no choice but to rely on Abiogenesis, being devoid of evidence? hahaha, like Abiogenesis isn't? it would take more faith in believing life from non life as a creator and IMO if there was a BB, there had to be something o/side of time and space as we understand it, that caused that BB, evolution does NOT disprove any creator anymore than your words do...

Since: Apr 08

Cambridge, UK

#135949 Aug 14, 2014
Curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Why did you not dispute what I posted?
I am not interested in what Georgia Purdom's opinion is.
What I am still looking for atheist to provide is
the answer as to how we attained life,consciousness and intelligence that does not include ID" God"
Is nothing or no thing responsible as the creating agent?
How is it possible that life , consciousness and intelligence can emanate fron the nonliving,the nonconscious and nonintelligent? By accidental means? A FREAK OF NATURE?By magical powers? By the elements churning over billions of years?
It is atheists that have no options other than to believe that which is impossible.
They do not believe in God,therefore they look for natural answers where none is to be found.
That is made abundantly clear by their statements that they don't know
Either Something has always existed,long before the Universe , time and life came into being or , there was a time when nothing existed and nothing was able to create something out of nothing....Lunacy or magic?
By necessity,Something has to be eternal. That Something is what I call God.
We have been down this road before ans no one has provided a suitable explanation as to how nothing was able to create something out of nothing..
It is not a God of the gaps....It is common sense and logical
By your own admission you don't know the answer for sure.

Neither do I.

However, unlike you, I refuse to insert any of the many gods that people worship.

You don't know the answer yet you insist on laying down your own rigorous conditions which creation must adhere to. The reality is that it is probably stranger than you can imagine.

Yet cosmologists may only be a few nano seconds away from the answer to what happened at the moment of creation and you can rest assured that any answer they do come up with won't be magic.

Since: Apr 08

Cambridge, UK

#135950 Aug 14, 2014
Curious wrote:
Male and female He made them and instructed them to go forth and multiply.
Did he also create male and female beetles for each of the 350,000+ different beetle species he poofed into existence?

It would have gone something like this:

God - "Let there be the Colorado Potato Beetle"....poof!

God - "Let there be the Rhinoceros Beetle"....poof!

God - "Let there be the Death Watch Beetle"....poof!

God - "Let there be the Dung Beetle"....poof!

God - "Let there be the Stag Beetle"....poof!

God - "Let there be the Fiddler Beetle"....poof!

God - "Let there be the Diving Beetle"....poof!

God - "Let there be the Oak Leaf Beetle"....poof!

And so on until he has poofed over 350,000 different species of beetles into existence.

Since: Apr 08

Cambridge, UK

#135951 Aug 14, 2014
Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
The problem is that the Scientific Method of Theory Creation is a fairly new concept and actually has only been around since the early 1800's / late 1700's ... It has a specific set of steps to produce a Theory
1. Observation... Observation cannot be casual, in that any observations made must be observable with the same data gathered by any observer so as to preclude Illusion or Delusion of the observer...
2. A Hypothesis is formed to explain the observed ... Such Hypothesis must present testable predictions and a method of falsification...
3. Experimentation and data/evidence acquisition to validate the hypothesis... Any experiments must be reproducible and any data/evidence gathered must be testable and verifiable by any researcher...
4. If the Hypothesis provides a method of falsification but has not been falsified, experimentation results support the hypothesis and the evidence/data support the hypothesis then a Theory can be Created ... If any of the points fail to support the hypothesis the hypothesis is deemed Invalid and the process must restart from the point of observation...
Before this most used the Alchemical Method of Theory Creation...
1. Observations are made and they can be casual in that a individual can observe a natural event and it need not be observable to any and all observers...
2. A Theory is formed to explain the observed and wide ranging projections of outcome are made
3. Experimentation and data acquisition is preformed to validate the theory..
4. If experimentation fails to validate the theory or results are outside projected the experiments and data can be altered to better fit the projection ranges while the theory is still given validation....
The Alchemical Method was given the consideration of being Science since the the time of the Greeks and even today we tend to call old technologies and findings as Scientific but that is backward projecting on our part as during the long past the concept of the Scientific Method did not exist and the concept of Scientist only occurred in 1833 when we formed the Scientific Method of Theory Creation and ended the use of the Alchemical Method, which has been making a comeback in the last 50 or so years....
Thanks for that - we can see that theories remain our best explanations for observable phenomena.

No gods, magic, ju-ju. superstition, mumbo jumbo,etc required.

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