Bible study rules for public schools ...

Bible study rules for public schools proposed

There are 148397 comments on the The Courier-Journal story from Feb 10, 2010, titled Bible study rules for public schools proposed. In it, The Courier-Journal reports that:

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Courier-Journal.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#135733 Aug 11, 2014
Sharrian wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh well,Atheists are so convinced that a Supreme Being does not exist that they are willing to concede that this Supreme Being may well exist
I have no doubt the supreme being of the bible is myth.
A "supreme being" is a pretty vague idea, and thus I cannot prove vague ideas as absolute false, but I know of no supreme beings that exist, thus I am atheistic towards supreme beings. If you could produce evidence of a supreme being, I am open to change my position. As of yet, no one has produced any evidence of a supreme being.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#135734 Aug 11, 2014
Sharrian wrote:
<quoted text>
Sexual reproduction is clearly the only way for the continuation of the species
SEX
"Can the evolutionist explain the origin of sex? Starting with one germ or even a few germs, reproduction must have been by division for a time. If the germ that became the head of all plant life, reproduced by division, when did it begin to reproduce by seeds?"
"It is still more difficult to explain when sex life began in animals. There could have been no sex life at first, and perhaps for ages. They can not tell us when the animals, by chance, acquired the wonderful adaptation of the sexual life. They have no evidence whatever. Their guess is no better than that of others. It passes credulity to believe that the sexual life, with all its marvelous design, was reached by the invention of irrational animals, when man, with all his powers of reason, invention, and discovery, is helpless even to understand the great wisdom and power that brought it about"
The Box has it right. He came into being because hia parents reproduced. That is the way God planned it.
Perhaps you have a different explanation that you would like to provide
Animals do not "invent" adaptations. Not knowing exactly what happened a half billion years ago does not mean it is impossible it could have happened.

It does not seem impossible to me that a part of the body would adapt to receive the seed. It does not seem impossible to me that a part of the body would adapt to push out the seed.
It does not see impossible to me that those parts would evolve to fit together well.
It does not seem impossible to me that a mechanism of pleasure would evolve to ensure the parts come together.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#135735 Aug 11, 2014
Sharrian wrote:
<quoted text>
From the claims made by atheists,even atheists do not have enough faith to be atheists
Jumping through hoops does not bode well for atheism.
Excuses are not a sound foundation for a legitimate faith or religion
I have disbelief in a supreme being. Are you claiming that is not what an atheist is?

a·the·ist [ey-thee-ist] Show IPA

noun
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#135736 Aug 11, 2014
Sharrian wrote:
<quoted text>
Sexual reproduction is clearly the only way for the continuation of the species
SEX
"Can the evolutionist explain the origin of sex? Starting with one germ or even a few germs, reproduction must have been by division for a time. If the germ that became the head of all plant life, reproduced by division, when did it begin to reproduce by seeds?"
"It is still more difficult to explain when sex life began in animals. There could have been no sex life at first, and perhaps for ages. They can not tell us when the animals, by chance, acquired the wonderful adaptation of the sexual life. They have no evidence whatever. Their guess is no better than that of others. It passes credulity to believe that the sexual life, with all its marvelous design, was reached by the invention of irrational animals, when man, with all his powers of reason, invention, and discovery, is helpless even to understand the great wisdom and power that brought it about"
The Box has it right. He came into being because hia parents reproduced. That is the way God planned it.
Perhaps you have a different explanation that you would like to provide
Sex is not the only way to reproduction of a species. Fish don't have sex. Need I supply more examples your claim is false?

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#135737 Aug 11, 2014
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not false at all. It's part of the religion.
<quoted text>
All the evidence shows otherwise. The parents' religion, along with the country you grow up in, are the strongest indicators of what religion a child will end up following. Religion is taught.
<quoted text>
I know. People say they arrived at their religion through some process of discovery, when they simply adopted what was familiar. Children of Christians are usually Christian. Children of Muslims are usually Muslims. Children of Hindus are usually Hindus.
Religion....ok but not Christianity.

The evidence from those that make up religion, it's true. It seems we are saying the same thing. There was a recent case of a Christian man married to a woman. The woman's family was Muslim. I didn't note the case well but I believe her mother became a Christian and she too chose to become a Christian but the country had her a Muslim because the father and family were Muslim. Her country wanted to charge her with apostasy (I believe) and kill her. With Christianity, being born into a Christian family will not make you a Christian. It is not about familiarity and many people from different religions accept Jesus (Christianity), eventhough they grew up learning something different. Again, those that grew up familiar with Christianity are not Christians until they accept Jesus Christ. To fairly state, there are those who choose not to be a Christian though it is familiar.

It's true, religion is taught.

“Speaker of Mountain Wisdom....”

Since: Jan 10

London, KY

#135738 Aug 11, 2014
Sharrian wrote:
<quoted text>
Sexual reproduction is clearly the only way for the continuation of the species
SEX
That is of course not true as there are several species of living organisms that replicate without sex...

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#135739 Aug 11, 2014
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
OK
Fact: If we release an object with mass it will fall to earth.
Theory that explains why this is - Gravity
Fact: Every year the continental land masses move by a couple of inches.
Theory that explains why this is - Plate Tectonics
Fact: Pathogens can cause sickness and disease.
Theory that explains why this is - Germ Theory of Disease
Fact: A gas is a large number of small particles constantly in motion.
Theory that explains why this is - Kinetic Theory of Gases
--You said....facts came come from theories...is more accurate.
<quoted text>
OK - your turn
Theory and Facts

There is an intricate relation between theory and fact. The popular understanding of this relationship obscures more than it illuminates. They are generally conceived as direct opposites. Theory is confused with speculation and theory remains speculation until it is proved. When this proof is made, theory becomes fact. Facts are thought to be definite, certain, without question and their meaning to be self-evident. Science is thought to be concerned with facts alone. Theory is supposed to be realm of philosophers. Scientific theory is therefore thought to be merely summation of facts that have been accumulated upon a given subject. However if we observe the way scientists actually do research, it becomes clear 1. Theory and fact are not diametrically opposed but inextricably intertwined.2. Theory is not speculation.3.Scientists are very much concerned with both theory and facts. A fact is regarded as an empirically verifiable observation. A theory refers to the relationship between facts or to the ordering of them in some meaningful way. Facts of science are the product of observations that are not random but meaningful, i.e., theoretically relevant. Therefore we cannot think of facts and theory as being opposed rather they are interrelated in many complex ways. The development of science can be considered as a constant interplay between theory and fact.

Continue reading source: http://www.sociologyguide.com/research-method...

It makes sense and I agree with the information shared on this site.

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#135740 Aug 11, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>No, facts come from evidence and there are billions of bits of evidence that confirms the theory of evolution.
I said, facts can come from theories. I'm not sure what you are responding too? The theory of evolution is not the only theory. I am referring to theories in general.

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#135741 Aug 11, 2014
Sharrian wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps it is your attempts at jumping through hoops that has you mentally confused about the meanibg of atheist and atheism.
The confusion is on your part.
Sharrian wrote:
Perhaps it is a lack of evidence for the beliefs you hold that leads many of you proclaim yourselves to be atheists and agnostics on the same issues.
My beliefs are based on reason and evidence. Yours are not.

You make the positive claim that a god, or gods, exist, with no supporting evidence.

My position is rational; yours is irrational.
Sharrian wrote:
That is akin to claiming to be a little bit pregnant..
There is no such thing as being a little bit pregnant.
Beliefs are not held on a binary scale of 1 or 0. I believe the world is round with 99.99+% certainty. I believe there is milk in my fridge with 80% certainty (someone may have finished it).

I believe certain specific gods, like Jesus, Thor, or Zeus, are simply man-made inventions with 99.99+% certainty. I believe gods as a general concept are man-made inventions with probably 95% certainty.

I could be wrong in any of the 4 cases, but it would take a lot of evidence to change my mind about 3 of them.

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#135742 Aug 11, 2014
chinwendu1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Religion....ok but not Christianity.
Christianity is a religion.
chinwendu1 wrote:
The evidence from those that make up religion, it's true. It seems we are saying the same thing. There was a recent case of a Christian man married to a woman. The woman's family was Muslim. I didn't note the case well but I believe her mother became a Christian and she too chose to become a Christian but the country had her a Muslim because the father and family were Muslim. Her country wanted to charge her with apostasy (I believe) and kill her. With Christianity, being born into a Christian family will not make you a Christian.
Chin, I was never talking about any kind of outside declaration of religious inclusion, like someone being considered Jewish because their mother is Jewish.

I'm talking about conscious individual following of a religion.
chinwendu1 wrote:
It is not about familiarity and many people from different religions accept Jesus
But, it is. Statistically, most Christians come from Christian families and communities. Most Muslims come from Muslim families and communities. Most Hindus come from Hindu families and communities.

So, again, Christianity is no different from any other religion.

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#135743 Aug 11, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>The bible sure does not allow room for doubt and question.
Most Christians get angry when questions are asked.
I keep hearing things like "just have faith" the words are true and good. Well that leaves little to no room for questions.
Telling a child he will go to hell if he does not believe is beyond indoctrination. It borders on mental terrorism.
Those who are in doubt should ask questions...the Bible is full of examples of those that did just that and more. When it is said to just have faith, it is not a blind something. The only way to have a certain type of faith is to know. I've heard many pastors use the example of a chair. Many people just sit down in a chair, believing that it will hold them. Why? Because, they have done it so many times before and the chair held them. The relationship with God is real and through reading, praying, studying, etc. and living life, Christians see God show up for them all the time.

Who tells a child they will go to hell if they don't believe? Just as with everyday life issues, there are certain things children cannot comprehend at a young age. The age of the child should be taken into account regarding spiritual things as well.

Since: Feb 14

Location hidden

#135744 Aug 11, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>
I did not make claim to how life started. I simply spoke of how it may have. I guess you cannot comprehend the written word to well.
So you do not believe the biblical story of how life came to be?
Life has only been started once as far as we can be sure of as of yet. It is possible life has started billions of times on billions of other planets, but until we can find this, I cannot show another time life has started for any examples.
Nature churning earth and elements needs no magic. I understand that you cannot fathom this churning of elements could result in creating things. I can.
I guess I cannot fathom some being that needed no creating force that is more intelligent than man, and can make humans in a day.
You have demonstrated no willingness to learn about the sciences in question. So it seems pretty clear you are just on a mission to mock science. Everything you say about science seems to be negative. You are clearly on a war with science, although you may deny that charge, I think you are in a war you do not know you are in. I think you are oblivious to many things.
My comprehension is fine and if you'd stop writing and breathe when you type, i may understand you better.

Since: Feb 14

Location hidden

#135745 Aug 11, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>
Let me demonstrate what a straw man argument is. No atheists here, or even any I know make a claim that we are the greatest thing created.
Most atheists here do claim their are things greater than themselves.
Thus you are not debating what we say or think. You are debating what is known as a straw man.
Excellent!
thank you Mike.

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#135746 Aug 11, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>80% of all humans follow the religion of their parents.
It only makes sense that a child would be inclined to believe what he was raised to believe. And if you feel Christianity is the only true religion, then explain why children of Muslims become Muslims?
From what I know, Jesus is the way given to bridge the broken relationship between God and man, as a result of sin.

How many % follow a certain religion can vary for many different reasons, factors, etc. My point is that even if one grows up in a house of Christians, it cannot, does not and will not make the person a Christian until they accept Jesus Christ on their own.

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#135747 Aug 11, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>All decisions are made in your head.
You have instincts and information from your environment in which to make decisions. If your environment is encouraging you strongly to chose a specific belief, it is less of a choice and more of an indoctrination.
It is instinctive to follow your parents.
Yes, the information we take in does contribute to making decisions.
There are environments that give information that unhealthy things and negative habits are alright. It may or may not take time but one can still find what is really true. Somethings may be instinctive (and others ingrained) but we have are own personality, temperaments, interests, motivations, etc. Many of the cult religions do brainwash and that is all-together a different things.

Since: Apr 08

Cambridge, UK

#135748 Aug 11, 2014
chinwendu1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Religion....ok but not Christianity.
The evidence from those that make up religion, it's true. It seems we are saying the same thing. There was a recent case of a Christian man married to a woman. The woman's family was Muslim. I didn't note the case well but I believe her mother became a Christian and she too chose to become a Christian but the country had her a Muslim because the father and family were Muslim. Her country wanted to charge her with apostasy (I believe) and kill her. With Christianity, being born into a Christian family will not make you a Christian. It is not about familiarity and many people from different religions accept Jesus (Christianity), eventhough they grew up learning something different. Again, those that grew up familiar with Christianity are not Christians until they accept Jesus Christ. To fairly state, there are those who choose not to be a Christian though it is familiar.
It's true, religion is taught.
You refer to the exception and not the rule.

For the vast majority of the world's believers, parentage, culture and birthplace define their choice of religion.

If you'd have been born and lived in Saudi Arabia, then it's odds on you would be a Sunni Muslim. If you'd been born in Iran chances are you'd be a Shi'a Muslim. If you'd been born in Israel during the first century BCE you'd have been an adherent of the Jewish faith. If you'd been born in medieval Europe, you'd see nothing wrong with killing witches and torturing heretics.

Billions of people all over the world have no good reason to believe in their respective faiths other than it was what they were born into and learned from their parents. The only reason they adopt their faith is down to social/cultural conditions and has little to do with studying a selection of faiths and picking one because you favour its doctrine over all the others.

I'm sorry but these things are close to being undeniable facts. Deny that and display your religious/chronological snobbery for all to see.

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#135749 Aug 11, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Telling a person he will be rewarded in heaven or punished in hell is akin to putting a gun to his head and saying, " make a choice.
The person is not choosing the religion, he/she is only going with what he has been lead to believe is real.
If he is convinced heaven is real and Jesus is the way to it, then rejecting that concept is not likely. In fact I would say impossible.
If that were truly as you state it, then people would not choose smoking when they know it leads to lung cancer, right? Yet, people choose to drink and drive, when they know they could take an innocent person's life. People choose to take drugs, when only one time could kill them. Fear is not enough to stop many.

Since: Apr 08

Cambridge, UK

#135750 Aug 11, 2014
chinwendu1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Theory and Facts
There is an intricate relation between theory and fact. The popular understanding of this relationship obscures more than it illuminates. They are generally conceived as direct opposites. Theory is confused with speculation and theory remains speculation until it is proved. When this proof is made, theory becomes fact. Facts are thought to be definite, certain, without question and their meaning to be self-evident. Science is thought to be concerned with facts alone. Theory is supposed to be realm of philosophers. Scientific theory is therefore thought to be merely summation of facts that have been accumulated upon a given subject. However if we observe the way scientists actually do research, it becomes clear 1. Theory and fact are not diametrically opposed but inextricably intertwined.2. Theory is not speculation.3.Scientists are very much concerned with both theory and facts. A fact is regarded as an empirically verifiable observation. A theory refers to the relationship between facts or to the ordering of them in some meaningful way. Facts of science are the product of observations that are not random but meaningful, i.e., theoretically relevant. Therefore we cannot think of facts and theory as being opposed rather they are interrelated in many complex ways. The development of science can be considered as a constant interplay between theory and fact.
Continue reading source: http://www.sociologyguide.com/research-method...
It makes sense and I agree with the information shared on this site.
I was waiting for you to provide a list of facts that become facts after rather than before the theory.

Never mind.

Try reading your post again but this time, everytime you read the word "theory" substitute it with "evolution".

For theory is exactly what evolution is.

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#135751 Aug 11, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>I have no idea what you watched. I asked to demonstrate your claim. You claimed it would be important to know the date.
I am not convinced you can actually follow this discussion.
OMG....oh my goodness. Important for me to gather more information about the program, so I can see it in its entirely...thank you very much. The little I caught was interesting...there is nothing for me to demonstrate, nor have I made any claims.

I need to convince you of my interest to locate a program I missed all except the last part of (and still have not located to date)....lol.

Again, thanks to all who did contribute...it is appreciated.

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#135752 Aug 11, 2014
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
That's ultimately true of any religion. It's a choice. The choice is usually STRONGLY guided by parents.
Christianity is not unique in this issue.
Ok...religion. Christianity is definitely unique.

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