Bible study rules for public schools ...

Bible study rules for public schools proposed

There are 166390 comments on the The Courier-Journal story from Feb 10, 2010, titled Bible study rules for public schools proposed. In it, The Courier-Journal reports that:

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Courier-Journal.

Curious

Winter Garden, FL

#135594 Aug 9, 2014
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
If the supreme creator being (or beings) of our universe wanted us to know about him (or them), he (or they) would make it happen. Any god(s)who truly exists and doesn't want to be found won't be found.
So you aare still regurgitating the same nonsense, expressing your misguided opinions based on nonfacts.
God has provided us with the formula,found in the Bible, as to how one may come to Know Him.
He clearly states how to make it happen... You ignore that formula and concoct ill conceived excuses so as not to follow His instructions and in order to justify your very shaky faith.
Willing to bet that you will respond with one of yourmany illconceived excuses.

Since: Apr 08

Cambridge, UK

#135595 Aug 9, 2014
chinwendu1 wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I wouldn't be out doing evil like no tomorrow...I thank God my parents did take the time and energy to instill certain values, beliefs, etc. in me. Though, if I didn't have a relationship with God, I will be honest to say I would have probably got myself entangled in more than I have because the traps are everywhere. Morals, values, beliefs, knowledge, discipline, etc. has to do with where we allow ourselves to get to through the decisions we choose to make for our life. It is God who tells us to guard our eyes, guard our ears, guard our mouth and especially our heart because out of our heart comes the issues of life. We are accountable for our actions and the choices we make for our life. You are right in regards to how many try to place the blame or shift it elsewhere...but that line of thinking is a definite trap.
So you see. I can live just as good a life as you except that in my case, I need no book authored by the supreme creator being of the universe.

In any event, there appear to be a number of these books that the creator has written or inspired.

The Gita being one of them.

Since: Apr 08

Cambridge, UK

#135596 Aug 9, 2014
chinwendu1 wrote:
We are not to worship and pray to any image on the cross because it's a graven image.
Nice to see you adhere to the commandments.

I trust you also strictly observe the feast of unleavened bread in the month when the ear is on the corn.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#135597 Aug 9, 2014
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
If the supreme creator being (or beings) of our universe wanted us to know about him (or them), he (or they) would make it happen. Any god(s)who truly exists and doesn't want to be found won't be found.
that sounds sensible. depending on your definition of a god or gods, which would include intentinality. if there is a sort of god that is best described as pantheism, it would not necessarily know what it is, since it would be everything, and yet not necessarily in touch with all of itself, not even all of its seemingly mental aspects. I think it would be a good accomplishment if we could teach people, great apes., border collies, and dolphins to communicate with each other through means of picture boards. I heard about a great ape that asked for watermelon by punching two signs, one for fruit and one for water, without being coached (allegedly). But I can't imagine what a bird or caterpiller thinks. bad enough I try to say what a collie thinks! I might be mistaken!

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#135598 Aug 9, 2014
AAA wrote:
<quoted text>That's the road you're wanting to take? Asking when you ever said "there is no god"?
The atheist are dropping like flies today,, it seems all of them are starting to believe in God, or a false god!!!
So mainly you're debating the issue of Bible study in public schools? Are you sure about that? Because all most all the post of yours that I read are you asking people to prove to you God exist, and how you can't prove he doesn't!!
I see you still do not understand what an atheist is, nor can understand the difference between not believing in any gods and the declaration of there being no god. I see a huge difference. Its a simple concept to understand.
a·the·ist [ey-thee-ist] Show IPA
noun
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#135599 Aug 9, 2014
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
So you see. I can live just as good a life as you except that in my case, I need no book authored by the supreme creator being of the universe.
In any event, there appear to be a number of these books that the creator has written or inspired.
The Gita being one of them.
by appear to be I hope you mean that some folks make a claim for them. I certainly am appalled at the person who thinks he or she would fall into lots of traps and behave badly if he/she did not believe in a God. I think many people behave much more viciously because of the religion they believe in. Crusades being an example, and current events revealing more of them. Even Mormon behavior in one famous instance out west - and Fundy Mormonism even now, in the abuse of women. Let alone some Catholic priests and the higherups who protected them. And various Protestant type ministers who take advantage in similar ways, or economic ways.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#135600 Aug 9, 2014
chinwendu1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Science is no enemy.
One can only trust science to a degree because there are still so much science cannot explain. As well, the same issue that exists with religion exists with some sciences because people are involved. There are scientists who make false claims, studies, findings, etc. for fame, honor, prestige, etc.
A scientist who lies will probably be famous, for being a fraud. Religion does not have such standards.
Evolution has been verified for the past 150 years. No lie here.
If science does not yet have an answer, what are you doubting about science? Are you saying you must have all the answers to have trust?

You claim science is not the enemy, but they way you talk about it, you treat it like the enemy. What I am saying is, you are in a delusion about your war with science.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#135601 Aug 9, 2014
no atheist speaks for every other atheist. Dawkins and Hitchens do not lead looney cults like religious leaders do. You are a nasty arrogant idiot. a person can be both agnostic and athist, and such a person is on the firmest ground. such a person can also be a secular humanist. these views are all descriptions of differing attitudes about differing but related subjects. agnosticism is about whether one makes a knowledge claim or not. atheism is about whether one has a belief in a god?God/gods or not. secular humanism is about an ethic of not harming other human beings. one can be all three, and much more - especially if one also values the ecosystem, life on the planet, and many individual species and animals and even plants (the great redwoods, for example). people who think, can think about many related things. they are not brainwashed. There would be nothing inconsistent about a person being an agnostic believer, either. An agnostic attitude would include admitting the possibility that a God might not exist. But a believer might easily believe despite not making a claim to know or be sure there is a God. you are not very smart.
Curious wrote:
<quoted text>
I stand on the foundation for my beliefs. I do not sway back and forth, claiming that I beleive in God and then claiming that there is a possibility God does not exist..
My God lives.
It is you and those like you, doubleminded, once Atheists, now Agnostics aznd you also claimed to be a secular humanist.
Those changes have taken place when your faith as an atheist and that of other atheists was challenged.
And we were talking about is the origins of life,consciousness and intelligence.
Now you also have atheists such as Hitchens and Dawkins attempting to distance themselves from their atheist beliefs.
Dawkins allows for the possible existence of God(S) and allows for the possibility that we may have been CREATED by a race of beings with superior intelligence,. Does that not point to Gods?
Hitchens claimed he believed that our planet was the dumping grounds of a superior race
who considered us undesirables and placed us here on Earth.
So what do we have, Atheists claiming that we may have been Created,not evolved,by a superior civilization'
The claim is also made by atheists that we were formed from Stardust.
What is Stardust?
The dust on the ground, exactly as stated in Genesis..And you call those strawman arguments?
Seems that atheists are most assuredly backing off their faith,although reluctantly and not willing to admit it
and atheism is not a faith. it is a lack of belief in a God or god or gods or Gods. an atheist can have beliefs about many other matters - such as about what is ethically decent.

Atheists as such do not claim that we are formed from stardust. Atheists can have any sort of opinion they wish about origins of man or earth or the solar system or the universe. atheism as such does not take a position on that. Some atheists may claim to know there is no God, but those are socalled hard atheists, and agnostic atheists do not agree with that. Some atheists may claim to have a scientific explanation for this or that, but other atheists may have a different explantion, or say they don't know. And if they don't claim to know, they can be free to guess that such knowledge can be obtained, or that it cannot.
Agnostic atheists especially are truly free-thinkers. just the opposite of your enclosed mind, bound by superstition.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#135602 Aug 9, 2014
chinwendu1 wrote:
<quoted text>
God also works through the doctors; thus hospitals are still needed, but prayer is needed too. We are to read the Bible daily, fast and prayer for one another and be there for one another. For those who are not yet believers, we are suppose to stand in the gap for them and pray to God on their behalf.
This is a fallen world and suffering is here but there is also good here too. We just have to get to doing more of the good for one another.
I do not think your god has anything to do with the doctors. But at least you are not so fanatical to deny yourself or your loved ones actual scientific medicine.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#135603 Aug 9, 2014
justice_- wrote:
<quoted text>
I have thought a lot about this point your making . The only thing that trips me up is when I think about the people who have had no interaction with society . I've brought this point up before , but didn't get any response from anyone . There are tribes deep in the jungle , that have no communications with the outside world . These people always seem to have a natural connection to the earth and what they believe to be a "God". Do you wonder if it is a human trait to need a higher power of some sort to relate to each other in a social hierarchy .
I see no need for a god in social hierarchy. But I do see many who claim a link to a god to have hierarchy over others. The money, power, and choice of sexual partners are often the motive.

As I have said, it is natural to assign imaginary beings to fill the gaps of knowledge man has. Those who claim to have some of these answers usually get the hierarchy over others. So again the strong motive to make up things like gods to get rewards.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#135604 Aug 9, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>
A scientist who lies will probably be famous, for being a fraud. Religion does not have such standards.
Evolution has been verified for the past 150 years. No lie here.
If science does not yet have an answer, what are you doubting about science? Are you saying you must have all the answers to have trust?
You claim science is not the enemy, but they way you talk about it, you treat it like the enemy. What I am saying is, you are in a delusion about your war with science.
I assume that was aimed at a superstitiius believer. I am a bit more of a skeptic about individual scientific views than you are, but what I like about the best of science is that it is open to re-evaluation, testing, challenge, new information, even skeptical qustioning. If scientists become high-handed, then I would be uncomfortable with them too, as I am with dogmatic religion.
The point about about science is that the constatnt reevaluation has to go on, the seeking of new information, the challenging of old information and old theories - even at the same time as responsible adults must act upon what we think we know.in order to prevent disasters - as in the case of nuclear materials and climate change. These things require a sensible risk assessment. A terrible risk should be avoided even if there are doubters who think everything will be ok.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#135605 Aug 9, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>
I see no need for a god in social hierarchy. But I do see many who claim a link to a god to have hierarchy over others. The money, power, and choice of sexual partners are often the motive.
As I have said, it is natural to assign imaginary beings to fill the gaps of knowledge man has. Those who claim to have some of these answers usually get the hierarchy over others. So again the strong motive to make up things like gods to get rewards.
plus it flatters their ego and allows them to be be lazy con artists.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#135606 Aug 9, 2014
chinwendu1 wrote:
<quoted text>
You believe the Bible prophecies are inaccurate and vague, please provide some examples? This seems like a deja vu moment,...please disregard if this is a duplicate.
The Bible is not a science book, it is more of a life instruction manual given to us from God. Yes, there are accounts that lead to some historical sites, confirmation of civilizations, prophecies, etc. but it is given to us so that we will have all that we need to live a successful spirit-filled life while we are in this space.
Science is a good thing, in its own content. I'm not really sure why there is an impression that it is not.
The slavery that took place in the USA and other countries (and still take place) is morally wrong. In the original state of indentured service was a means of livelihood, as well as restitution, debt payment offered in lieu of paying money and is not morally wrong. Just because someone renders their service, does not mean one should mistreat that person. With the way of life being the way it was back then, many people were indentured service and guidelines over none are best to have.
Yet the bible specifically says you can enslave those you conquered. This is not indentured service. Maybe you should study your bible instead of accepting apologetics.

Deuteronomy 21:10-14 "When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the Lord thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails; And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife. And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her."

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#135607 Aug 9, 2014
havent forgotten wrote:
<quoted text>
I assume that was aimed at a superstitiius believer. I am a bit more of a skeptic about individual scientific views than you are, but what I like about the best of science is that it is open to re-evaluation, testing, challenge, new information, even skeptical qustioning. If scientists become high-handed, then I would be uncomfortable with them too, as I am with dogmatic religion.
The point about about science is that the constatnt reevaluation has to go on, the seeking of new information, the challenging of old information and old theories - even at the same time as responsible adults must act upon what we think we know.in order to prevent disasters - as in the case of nuclear materials and climate change. These things require a sensible risk assessment. A terrible risk should be avoided even if there are doubters who think everything will be ok.
And this is why the scientist who lies would be called out by his peers.
Most all the believers on this thread deny Evolution science, global climate change, how the earth formed, and some even deny plate tectonics.
Fact is, if they believe the science contradicts the bible, then it is just wrong.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#135608 Aug 9, 2014
chinwendu1 wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it is not defense of what evil.
You do not have the total account of the evil that took place but God does.
Deuteronomy 13 is speaking to a time that is no longer here. That is one part of the whole.
What Hitler did had nothing to do with keeping of any covenant, or removing squatters off of his land. Nor did Hitler has any other information other than the person was Jewish and that is so indescribably wrong.
If the god had more charges to make for the slaughter of 3,000 men, women and children who worshipped the golden calf, then maybe it should have been noted in the bible. But the fact remains, it does not. And I do not conclude there was some unknown reason for the slaughter.
Deuteronomy specifically states you should kill anyone who tries to sway you from your god.
It could not be more clear, the bible is not for religious freedom, and condones killing due to religious beliefs.
The time does not change what is right or wrong. That is the worst excuse for murder I have ever heard. Sounds like some excuse Hitler would use to kill Jews. Although he would say the time is now.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#135609 Aug 9, 2014
pusherman_ wrote:
<quoted text> They spoke in prophetic language, not necessarily for any God but about Gods and things to come.
Satan is of the world and seems to me that the OT God is of this world, the commandments are corroborating of that.
Jesus was NOT of this world, nor was the father he spoke of.
No loving God would ask anyone to sacrifice their son to show obedience, such as the God of the OT ask Abraham to do. seems the loving God stopped him..
So you feel Satan disguised himself as god and tricked Abraham? By this logic, one should never listen to what looks to be a god, as one cannot know if it is really Satan or not.

Fact is, humans can determine right from wrong fairly well. This is probably why you feel it is was Satan asking for a bad thing.
So really the bible is not needed at all.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#135610 Aug 9, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>
I do not think your god has anything to do with the doctors. But at least you are not so fanatical to deny yourself or your loved ones actual scientific medicine.
how does that person explain the need for doctors? a powerful and good god would not have allowed or created pain and suffering and death. even if a god existed, it could not be both all good and allpowerful. kinda bad and kinda incompetent - now that would be more plausible.

Since: Feb 14

Location hidden

#135611 Aug 9, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>
So you feel Satan disguised himself as god and tricked Abraham? By this logic, one should never listen to what looks to be a god, as one cannot know if it is really Satan or not.
Fact is, humans can determine right from wrong fairly well. This is probably why you feel it is was Satan asking for a bad thing.
So really the bible is not needed at all.
We are talking about the Bible and not my personal belief right?
fact is that if you atheist think life came from non life, you're a lot more faithful and religious about your belief than I am mine..
Curious

Winter Garden, FL

#135612 Aug 9, 2014
havent forgotten wrote:
no atheist speaks for every other atheist. Dawkins and Hitchens do not lead looney cults like religious leaders do. You are a nasty arrogant idiot. a person can be both agnostic and athist, and such a person is on the firmest ground. such a person can also be a secular humanist. these views are all descriptions of differing attitudes about differing but related subjects. agnosticism is about whether one makes a knowledge claim or not. atheism is about whether one has a belief in a god?God/gods or not. secular humanism is about an ethic of not harming other human beings. one can be all three, and much more - especially if one also values the ecosystem, life on the planet, and many individual species and animals and even plants (the great redwoods, for example). people who think, can think about many related things. they are not brainwashed. There would be nothing inconsistent about a person being an agnostic believer, either. An agnostic attitude would include admitting the possibility that a God might not exist. But a believer might easily believe despite not making a claim to know or be sure there is a God. you are not very smart.<quoted text>
and atheism is not a faith. it is a lack of belief in a God or god or gods or Gods. an atheist can have beliefs about many other matters - such as about what is ethically decent.
Atheists as such do not claim that we are formed from stardust. Atheists can have any sort of opinion they wish about origins of man or earth or the solar system or the universe. atheism as such does not take a position on that. Some atheists may claim to know there is no God, but those are socalled hard atheists, and agnostic atheists do not agree with that. Some atheists may claim to have a scientific explanation for this or that, but other atheists may have a different explantion, or say they don't know. And if they don't claim to know, they can be free to guess that such knowledge can be obtained, or that it cannot.
Agnostic atheists especially are truly free-thinkers. just the opposite of your enclosed mind, bound by superstition.
You are a twit ,a troll ,a twerp and on the verge of becoming a trollop, prostituting yourself to all kinds of beliefs on the same subject.
many lovers and faithful to none.
Dawkins and Hitchens have a huge following among atheists. I don't much care whether they represent all atheists or not . The fact is that they claim to be atheists while on the other hand, subscribing to some illucid beliefs that we may well have been Created by some superintelligent civilization "IE Gods"
The problem with many atheists like yourself,is that your beliefs are based on an inconsistent belief. You believe in no Gods,however your beliefs are weak and not persuasive even to yourselves, therefore you allow that there may be a God(S)
Doubleminded fits the description of your state of mind. It's like claiming to be half pregnant.
Those of us who truly believe in God are not cursed by that unstable mindset.
Our personal experiences have led us to believe in God, the foundation is strong and unshakable.
As you stated "And if they don't claim to know, they can be free to guess that such knowledge can be obtained, or that it cannot."
We, as Christians and believers do not base our faith on guessing games,we base it on real and personal experiences.
If you are going to taslk about superstition,which you did, then give some serious thoughts to your beliefs.
You don't believe in God"ID"
You believe that life, consciousness and intelligence do not need a creator.
You believe that nonliving,nonconscious and nonintelligent matter, bysome magical miracle
attained these properties from nothing....
Worse yet, you may claim that you don't know if such is possible......
Havent forgotten, you forgot to remember to forget Presley 1956

Since: Apr 08

Cambridge, UK

#135613 Aug 9, 2014
chinwendu1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Continued<<<
(2) a complete renunciation of the Christian faith, which results in a full abandonment of Christ.
Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/apostasy.html#ixz...
Religion may also call those who part from them apostates.
I found this source:
Understanding What Apostasy Is - And Is Not
"The truly loving response to apostasy is not to ignore it, but to confront it. As Paul told the Ephesian believers, "Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them" to the light of the truth as it is found only in Christ (Ephesians 5:12-14). In order to do that, you as a believer need to understand five things that will equip you to do what God says you must do. We briefly outlined these five keys to a Biblically loving response to apostasy in our last article. Today we shall begin discussing them in more detail.
The first key to a Biblically loving response to apostasy is this: You must be able to define and identify apostasy. You need to understand the Biblical boundaries. You need to understand what constitutes apostasy, and what is not apostasy, according to Scripture.
2 Timothy 4:3-4 tells us that apostasy begins with the acceptance of teaching that is contrary to the Word of God:
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.
Sometimes this acceptance of untruth begins in subtle ways, but the evidence will accumulate. Apostasy becomes more apparent when it manifests itself in a departure from a focus on Christ's twofold purpose for the church. Those purposes are to evangelize the lost through the preaching of the one true Gospel, and to edify the saints through the expositional preaching of the entire Word of God. Sometimes this departure from the two commands of the Great Commission is gradual, but often in our time the slow beginnings lead to a rapid downgrade.
Continued>>> see source in next
Interesting that you quote Timothy.

Do you also agree that it's not enough that women accept Jesus to be saved?

"11. A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety."

1 Timothy 2:11-15

There you have it. For women to be saved they must have babies. Faith isn't enough.

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