Bible study rules for public schools proposed

Feb 10, 2010 Full story: The Courier-Journal 131,620

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Full Story

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#133530 Jul 6, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I have found nothing to challenge that our current leaders have said. Wish I could say the same about our nations president.
It affects my family. Seeing things like this desensitizes my children to think that it is acceptable. But just because society finds something acceptable does not mean that God does. Similar to how Hollywood has desensitized us to allow our children to watch things on TV that they should not see at such young ages. The difference of what was allowed on TV and video games has changed drastically over the past 50 years (even 10 years) and we see the effects on each generation of what has become more accepted. And we also see the lack of respect children now have for others and their parents etc. as the world around us accepts more and more, it pulls us further and further away from God. I feel gay marriage is wrong and goes against what God planned and created us for, therefore I don't think it should be public. But then again, I don't think sex between a man and a woman should be so public, or easily accessible, or shoved down your eye balls when you turn on basically any channel either. Basically, get a room. Keep it private and I have nothing to complain about.
I'm not so much about restricting the freedom to let them marry, as I am against having to see it as normal. It isn't normal to me. And it seems this culture tried to blatantly make you see it to prove a point. Like i said, keep it private and I don't even have to know about it. My wife and I hold hands in public, but we don't shove our tongues down each other's throats or participate in disgusting parades that flaunt sexuality of every choice to all that wish to see it. But the gay community is well known for doing this just to push their agenda on the rest of us that don't want to see it. Want to be gay? Be gay. Be gay in private. I want to be straight. And I am straight in private. Do you think it is possible?
I know we were all fighting a losing battle in the society that we live in today that seems to have to accept everything others see as normal, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't have a voice too. I know this opens up the door for more things that are not acceptable right now. This is why many bring up incest, and marriage of underage kids, and other things you say disgust you. It will become acceptable too. Mark my words.
Even polygamy. I understand that it is acceptable to God, and was practiced by my church early on, as it was in ancient Biblical days. But I am ever so thankful it is not in effect right now because I don't want to deal with it. But it will happen again at some point. Currently our society sees it as disgusting. But you watch, as you all sit around and say that marriage should be able to happen between two consenting adults, others sit around and say well marriage should be between however many consenting adults.
There you go. That's how I see it. I'm sure you will say all this should be allowed, but deep down you know not every scenario should be allowed in a society.
So you are scared your kids will accept homosexuals as normal? I see.
I have to deal with my child seeing worshipping a mass murderer as normal, but I never demand or expect anyone to keep that insane practice a secret.

Heterosexuality is not a secret, nor is homosexuality. I often see heterosexual public displays of affection. It is on TV daily for one.

I think the practice of claiming homosexuals are abnormal is a problem. It has often lead to violent acts of hate crimes.

Yes, who knows, our society may very well allow polygamy to be allowed. Would you oppose it?

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#133531 Jul 6, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I have found nothing to challenge that our current leaders have said. Wish I could say the same about our nations president.
It affects my family. Seeing things like this desensitizes my children to think that it is acceptable. But just because society finds something acceptable does not mean that God does. Similar to how Hollywood has desensitized us to allow our children to watch things on TV that they should not see at such young ages. The difference of what was allowed on TV and video games has changed drastically over the past 50 years (even 10 years) and we see the effects on each generation of what has become more accepted. And we also see the lack of respect children now have for others and their parents etc. as the world around us accepts more and more, it pulls us further and further away from God. I feel gay marriage is wrong and goes against what God planned and created us for, therefore I don't think it should be public. But then again, I don't think sex between a man and a woman should be so public, or easily accessible, or shoved down your eye balls when you turn on basically any channel either. Basically, get a room. Keep it private and I have nothing to complain about.
I'm not so much about restricting the freedom to let them marry, as I am against having to see it as normal. It isn't normal to me. And it seems this culture tried to blatantly make you see it to prove a point. Like i said, keep it private and I don't even have to know about it. My wife and I hold hands in public, but we don't shove our tongues down each other's throats or participate in disgusting parades that flaunt sexuality of every choice to all that wish to see it. But the gay community is well known for doing this just to push their agenda on the rest of us that don't want to see it. Want to be gay? Be gay. Be gay in private. I want to be straight. And I am straight in private. Do you think it is possible?
I know we were all fighting a losing battle in the society that we live in today that seems to have to accept everything others see as normal, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't have a voice too. I know this opens up the door for more things that are not acceptable right now. This is why many bring up incest, and marriage of underage kids, and other things you say disgust you. It will become acceptable too. Mark my words.
Even polygamy. I understand that it is acceptable to God, and was practiced by my church early on, as it was in ancient Biblical days. But I am ever so thankful it is not in effect right now because I don't want to deal with it. But it will happen again at some point. Currently our society sees it as disgusting. But you watch, as you all sit around and say that marriage should be able to happen between two consenting adults, others sit around and say well marriage should be between however many consenting adults.
There you go. That's how I see it. I'm sure you will say all this should be allowed, but deep down you know not every scenario should be allowed in a society.
You could just move to Iran. I hear they do not allow homosexuals at all, much less allow them to have parades to express themselves. I hear they kill them as the bible god once demanded you do.
You see, America is based upon freedom of expression. I understand some persons expressions may bother you, but that is just to darned bad. It is a free country. Hate that idea if you will. I do not see it as a "losing battle", I see it as a victory over tyranny.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#133532 Jul 6, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I have found nothing to challenge that our current leaders have said. Wish I could say the same about our nations president.
.
Sorry I did not spell it out for you. I thought it was understood we were talking about your religious leaders. I am sure you knew this, but needed a way out and played stupid to divert.
Now let me ask again, do you ever question your religious leaders? If so, I would love to hear an example.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#133533 Jul 6, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
. Like i said, keep it private and I don't even have to know about it. My wife and I hold hands in public, but we don't shove our tongues down each other's throats or participate in disgusting parades that flaunt sexuality of every choice to all that wish to see it. But the gay community is well known for doing this just to push their agenda on the rest of us that don't want to see it. Want to be gay? Be gay. Be gay in private. I want to be straight. And I am straight in private. Do you think it is possible?
.
I do think it is possible for someone to be gay in private, but I do not think in a free society, they should have to do so.

I do not think you "want to be straight", I think you had no conscious decision in the matter. And I do not think your children will either. I do not think people "want to be gay", as I think homosexuals have no conscious decision to make in the matter. I do not think a single human has decided to become homosexual due to a gay pride parade.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#133534 Jul 6, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>

I'm not so much about restricting the freedom to let them marry, as I am against having to see it as normal. It isn't normal to me. And it seems this culture tried to blatantly make you see it to prove a point. Like i said, keep it private and I don't even have to know about it. My wife and I hold hands in public, but we don't shove our tongues down each other's throats or participate in disgusting parades that flaunt sexuality of every choice to all that wish to see it. But the gay community is well known for doing this just to push their agenda on the rest of us that don't want to see it. Want to be gay? Be gay. Be gay in private. I want to be straight. And I am straight in private. Do you think it is possible?
.
Yes, the gay pride parades do likely have an agenda. They may very well hope you will one day see it as normal in some respects. Maybe because they would like to be able to marry, and not keep their lives in a closet. It is not a healthy way to live. Even you claimed sex outside of marriage is problematic, so keeping gay marriage banned is problematic. You have yet to address that point I keep making.

Fact is, I seriously doubt you keep your marriage or relationship private. In fact, you bragged about it just the other day.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#133535 Jul 6, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
My church does not practice polygamy. I don't want to restate everything else I've already said. That sentence was sufficient. Was it not?
No, as it was not even the question.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#133536 Jul 6, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
As in my previous post, I think allowing what I consider to be against God will negatively affect my children. I am very protective over my children's physical, mental, and spiritual health.
Why not just shelter your children in a commune like the FLDS sect does? Why live in a free society if you feel it may harm your children?
You have a choice. Either deal with the things that come with freedom, or move to a society that does not allow freedoms. Iran for example is in line with your fears here. Yes, the average American realizes that freedom is much more healthy for a child's physical, mental and spiritual health, but you clearly do not.

Let me ask, if your children see gay marriage as normal, what exactly do you think it will adversely do to their minds? Are you fearing they will marry same sex partners?
Do you lack trust of your religion and beliefs so much that a law allowing others that do not agree with you to have freedoms is going to crumble your children's spirituality?
I mean if you are going to complain about gay marriage sending a message of normality, then you must show what is so adverse about that?

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#133537 Jul 6, 2014
chinwendu1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I did not say that time changes morals. Actually, we change and try to justify being immoral because everyone else is doing, saying or thinking it, it is fun, I like it and there is nothing wrong, etc.
I believe the example I previously gave was the wild wild west era. It has always been wrong to kill. But, the people during that time carried guns and had duels to the death. There was not justification...that is what was happening. As time passed, laws were passed which helped better enforce the law that was already in place.
Another example is slavery. It is wrong to keep another human being against their will and force them to work for free, etc. But, the people during that time deceived themselves to think it was acceptable, when it was very unacceptable. It is what happened but as time passed, laws were passed to ensure this horrific part of our history would not be repeated.
A last example is working children. Children should be trained but they should also enjoy their childhood. Over-working children is not healthy for them physically, mentally, emotionally or spiritually. Due to parent's faulty thinking, many children were hurt because during this time time it was considered normal to over-work children. It has never been normal and later laws were put in place to better enforce protection for children.
I have posted a reply to the Moses account in the post preceding this one.
I have no idea what this has to do with Moses and you justifying killing of three thousand people for worshipping a calf? Seems you are agreeing here it was wrong, yet you defended it in the recent past.
The bible condones slavery. Are you now claiming the bible was wrong and men realized that and changed the laws?

The point I keep making is, your bible says it was acceptable in their day, and god said it was acceptable to enslave and kill for all sorts of reasons we see as immoral today. You keep sweeping this under the rug as if I am not discussing something anyone else sees as a giant problem for religion.

Many are now realizing these contradictions of the bibles moral codes, and are leaving religion in droves. I am not some lone nut ranting about Moses. It is a problem your dogma lives with today and is being discussed often by many.
9/11 brought this issue to the headlines, so to speak. As of yet, I hear no good answers from team Christian here on the issue. Curious has now even tried to downplay the slaughter as a joke of a wanted poster. It only reminds me of the wanted posters of Osama bin Laden.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#133538 Jul 6, 2014
chinwendu1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I did not say that time changes morals. Actually, we change and try to justify being immoral because everyone else is doing, saying or thinking it, it is fun, I like it and there is nothing wrong, etc.
I believe the example I previously gave was the wild wild west era. It has always been wrong to kill. But, the people during that time carried guns and had duels to the death. There was not justification...that is what was happening. As time passed, laws were passed which helped better enforce the law that was already in place.
Another example is slavery. It is wrong to keep another human being against their will and force them to work for free, etc. But, the people during that time deceived themselves to think it was acceptable, when it was very unacceptable. It is what happened but as time passed, laws were passed to ensure this horrific part of our history would not be repeated.
A last example is working children. Children should be trained but they should also enjoy their childhood. Over-working children is not healthy for them physically, mentally, emotionally or spiritually. Due to parent's faulty thinking, many children were hurt because during this time time it was considered normal to over-work children. It has never been normal and later laws were put in place to better enforce protection for children.
I have posted a reply to the Moses account in the post preceding this one.
We did not change slavery laws, child work laws and laws on killing for religious reasons due to reasons of having fun, or because everyone else was doing it. We stopped those things because it was just morally wrong. You see, the bible condoned doing some of those things, probably because others were just doing it. It was probably fun not to work hard and have slaves do your work.
Secular society said that is immoral, no matter what the bible says. It put a stop to the days of white slave owners fun and opted for a more fair, free society.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#133539 Jul 6, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I do not want to practice polygamy, so I am happy this is not what God wants us to do right now. I guess I really don't see why you are against polygamy. As I said earlier, free society should include groups of people that want to marry, right?
Did I say I was against polygamy being legal? Nope, but you just did. Yet you have yet to state a single reason why, other than you do not wish to deal with it. Not that this is a reason.
Seems to me you are stating just another contradiction. Seems to me you are just following what your religious leaders say without question. I note you consistently are devoid of rational, logical or reasonable reasons as to why you oppose things. You simply repeat your dogma tells you it is wrong, thus not normal.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#133540 Jul 6, 2014
chinwendu1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I did not say that time changes morals..
Do you believe this is moral to do today?
Deuteronomy 13 New International Version (NIV)

Worshiping Other Gods

13 [a]If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place, and the prophet says,“Let us follow other gods”(gods you have not known)“and let us worship them,” 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 It is the Lord your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. 5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death for inciting rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery. That prophet or dreamer tried to turn you from the way the Lord your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#133541 Jul 6, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I do not want to practice polygamy, so I am happy this is not what God wants us to do right now. I guess I really don't see why you are against polygamy. As I said earlier, free society should include groups of people that want to marry, right?
First, neither you or I said this, "free society should include groups of people that want to marry, right?"

Now in your post, you claimed you said it. I do not think you did, and if you did, "groups" is so ambiguous, the comment is meaningless.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#133542 Jul 6, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I felt the same way I do now about gays as I did before I ever joined the LDS church. As I said before, I have nothing against the individuals, but I don't condone their behavior. That could be said about a multitude of different people.
Well it is clear you were always Christian from childhood. So it is understandable you never questioned the Christian dogma of homosexuality being an abomination. I am not singling out Mormons by any means. Muslims and Jews are also guilty of the discrimination.

I also do not condone certain behaviors. But if it is not really harming me or society in general, I have a hard time asking anyone to keep it in the closet as you do.

You have still yet to demonstrate harm.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#133543 Jul 6, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I felt the same way I do now about gays as I did before I ever joined the LDS church. As I said before, I have nothing against the individuals, but I don't condone their behavior. That could be said about a multitude of different people.
Nothing in your response refutes anything I said.

Mike Duquette wrote:

<quoted text>Maybe if you could show gay marriage might lead you to have a cousin of yours to die, that would be a fair comparison. Yet you have not shown any adverse effects of gay marriage, much less one comparable to your example.

I think you are naïve. You simply accept that gay marriage can affect you, and you cannot even show how. I think you automatically accept without question when your leaders claim it will affect you. They have you so brainwashed, they need not even give a single adverse effect of gay marriage for you to accept their claim.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#133544 Jul 6, 2014
chinwendu1 wrote:
<quoted text>
This was answered 2 posts before this one.
Another point that comes to mind is that the (The Law) 10 Commandments and that covenant with the children of Israel.
In the new covenant, Jesus Christ fulfilled the Law. The 2 commandments Jesus gives which is the fulfillment of the 10...and Jesus Christ is our rest.
Matthew 22:37-40 (KJV)
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Matthew 12 (KJV)
12 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat. 2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. 3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; 4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests? 5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? 6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. 7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. 8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
9 And when he was departed thence, he went into their synagogue: 10 And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him. 11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out? 12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days. 13 Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other. 14 Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him. 15 But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all; 16 And charged them that they should not make him known: 17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,
>>>continued
No, you did not address my question on a previous post.

And your scriptures posted paints a picture of Jesus rejecting the laws of god of the OT. Seems it is a likely reason the priests had him killed. You see, it is commanded in the law to kill those who reject the god they worship. Have you not heard your defense on the Moses slaughter?

Now I ask, does Jesus rejecting some of the old laws means they laws were not perfect? If so, then it seems unreasonable they were of a god.

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#133545 Jul 6, 2014
sun up sun down wrote:
<quoted text> Can't you find where he prophecied wrongly.
Oh I found it alright.

I can't help it if you choose to run away from my post rather than face up to it.
OBSERVER

Somerset, KY

#133546 Jul 6, 2014
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
Because Christians like talking about him. Why are Zeus, Allah, Brahman, and other religious characters also famous?
<quoted text>
They're all fictional.
I suggest you quit wasting your time trying to convince yourself of that. Those other characters know they are not God in the flesh, never claimed to be. Christ was,

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#133547 Jul 6, 2014
chinwendu1 wrote:
<quoted text>
This was answered 2 posts before this one.
>>>continued
No, your cut and paste post did not address any of these concerns.

Try using your wisdom, not someone else's.

Mike Duquette wrote:

<quoted text>I believe the slaughter of the calf worshippers was for self seeking reasons. Moses wanted absolute control, and killing those who did not believe him was a way to that full control. It is the way of many immoral dictators, including Saddam Hussein. Look at any dictator we see as immoral and you will find the same story. Simply kill the opposition, no matter if they harmed anyone, just kill them for the act of opposition.
There was no aggression claimed in the bible of the calf worshippers. They simply opposed the god of Moses by the act of worshipping the god they grew up with.
Read Deuteronomy 13. It details why you should kill for the simple act of trying to sway someone from your god. It does not say anything about aggressive acts as the reason to kill.
This is evidence no other reasons are needed for your prophets to order murder.
You can wish to be sure your feelings are not the same as the terrorists. I am not sure at all. As all I see you doing is trying to justify the mass murder of 3,000 people who showed no aggression. You have failed to show me a crime they committed that justified execution.

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#133548 Jul 6, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>We did not change slavery laws, child work laws and laws on killing for religious reasons due to reasons of having fun, or because everyone else was doing it. We stopped those things because it was just morally wrong. You see, the bible condoned doing some of those things, probably because others were just doing it. It was probably fun not to work hard and have slaves do your work.
Secular society said that is immoral, no matter what the bible says. It put a stop to the days of white slave owners fun and opted for a more fair, free society.
And where did those white slave owners find their moral justification for keeping slaves?

They got it from the Bible.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#133549 Jul 6, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
This WAS a fact of so called science, until remains were found of horses that predates Columbian times. The discussions kinda hushed after that about that topic. Sure apologetics will try to explain what they can't currently explain, but this is a great example of how science bandwagon jumpers hopped on board a wagon before all evidence was in.
What is "this"? Is not a fact that horses existed in the days of the supposed BOM events.

Dinosaurs predated Columbian times also. Now tell us something relevant.

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