Bible study rules for public schools ...

Bible study rules for public schools proposed

There are 147276 comments on the The Courier-Journal story from Feb 10, 2010, titled Bible study rules for public schools proposed. In it, The Courier-Journal reports that:

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Courier-Journal.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#133401 Jul 3, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Marriage between a man and a woman is what I stated.
I know what you believe, now try to defend that position. I see you refuse.
Your position contradicts on this seems contradictory to your earlier claim of sex outside of marriage being a problem. If it is a problem, then denying gay marriage is making you the problem maker.

Seems clear to me that you run from this debate because you know deep down, your position has a giant flaw, and you just refuse to admit your religious rules can be flawed.
It is a refusal of introspection.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#133402 Jul 3, 2014
spaceship wrote:
<quoted text>O.K. I thought B.Y. and J.S beliefs are that young teen girls were sexy or beautiful women. By your beliefs today that would not be true. Not so, with a sect of your religion called the FLDS.

The term sexy would be a bad word to used for a religious organization, rather beautiful would be more fitting. Even so, evidence shows that men lusted for younger women at the time of B.Y and J. S. and also sects of the LDS today. Having a harem in heaven and be your own God, not a bad deal some would say, that would influence acceptance in that ones religious doctrines.

I see how religion can increase a lusting for more females if left unchecked, Secular laws are in place to prevent forced marriages of young females to adult males, today.

Do you think single LDS men taking Viagra is a sin?
Calling the FLDS church a sect of Mormonism is the equivalent of calling Lutherans a sect of Catholicism.

Men lust after younger women today too. And thousands of years before, PLEASE tell me you know that. It is the nature of man to lust after women of any age, but to most, younger women are more attractive.

Show me a forced marriage in the church I am a member of. I'm sure there may be, because it could happen in any religion or group with no religion, but I haven't heard of any. So what if you find an example out of the millions of members of an organization? Does it mean they support it? Just because child abuse happens with Americans, does it mean America supports it?

No I don't think taking Viagra is a sin

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#133403 Jul 3, 2014
spaceship wrote:
<quoted text>Mike is a strong debater, just like yourself. I'm happy you are debating here, even though you consider me "anti" as most LDS folks would say. I been called worse on this tread and pass month or two had a few of my replies deleted, one just recently with Mike D. when trying to reply to his comment.

I think atheist here on this tread are brilliant and well studied debaters. In comparison with them I would not be much of a match and try to express my thoughts and stay within topix rules of decency when debating.

Anyway, glad you're brave enough to share you religion here so others can learn from these debates.
Thanks. I enjoy doing it. I just wish we could keep it at a conversation level instead of going to attack mode. People are way too aggressive on here, attacking what people believe while saying people should have the right to believe what they want.
Why try to break someone down, unless it is just fun for them? I enjoy learning how others think and believe, but I don't think I need to follow it up with harsh comments about how stupid they are for believing such.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#133404 Jul 3, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Did I say you? Nope. But a lot of people do, and it is motive as I demonstrated and you did not refute.

What we cannot remember of our supposed past life in heaven has nothing to do with faith on earth.
And speaking of a test of faith, I still see no reason a god should expect faith. It is an unreasonable expectation. There is no fairness to it at all.
I think my response was a refute for my case. Sure many get rich leading churches. That's why I'm not part of them. Jesus instructed His apostles not to accept money for preaching.

Sorry you feel that way about faith.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#133405 Jul 3, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>My stance on what? My stance on how you claimed problems come from sex outside of marriage and you oppose millions from being able to marry? You never said a single thing about it.

I do not think you challenge your religious leaders rules.
I do not challenge God. I believe in His holy purpose for sex and choose to do it under His guidelines. And I have a fantastic marriage and family because of it. I believe His guidelines include that it should be between a man and a woman. But I am not assertive in nature and choose to keep my opinions to myself on the topic of gay most of the time. I'm not so naive to think that gay marriage will not affect me or my family though. I do not think drinking alcohol is right either, and have already felt the effects of what comes from others when they drink alcohol. But I still do not condemn other drinkers. That isn't my place to judge them. I wish people didn't drink. And I wish I had my cousins back, but I sit with people as they drink all they time.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#133406 Jul 3, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Your sect practices polygamy? If not, then be more clear when responding to a post that says some Mormon sects still practice polygamy..
Sorry, I forgot you require paragraphs.

The polygamous groups that exist today are not a part of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
spaceship

Roseville, CA

#133407 Jul 3, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Calling the FLDS church a sect of Mormonism is the equivalent of calling Lutherans a sect of Catholicism.
Men lust after younger women today too. And thousands of years before, PLEASE tell me you know that. It is the nature of man to lust after women of any age, but to most, younger women are more attractive.
Show me a forced marriage in the church I am a member of. I'm sure there may be, because it could happen in any religion or group with no religion, but I haven't heard of any. So what if you find an example out of the millions of members of an organization? Does it mean they support it? Just because child abuse happens with Americans, does it mean America supports it?

[QUOTE who="do whut"]<quoted text>
Calling the FLDS church a sect of Mormonism is the equivalent of calling Lutherans a sect of Catholicism.
I think Christian religions all share a commonality.
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Men lust after younger women today too. And thousands of years before, PLEASE tell me you know that. It is the nature of man to lust after women of any age, but to most, younger women are more attractive..
The bible indicates that is true.
example: King solomon, King david and shown to be righteous before God.
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Show me a forced marriage in the church I am a member of. I'm sure there may be, because it could happen in any religion or group with no religion, but I haven't heard of any..
I find it hard not to believe that J.S. did not put pressure on parents of young teen girls not to marry him. After all, he was the chosen one or apostle that saw golden plates. I have not look all this up but sure it might be substantiated.
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
So what if you find an example out of the millions of members of an organization?
I did.

1880
Delaware 7
Florida 10
Kentucky 12

http://discover-the-truth.com/2013/09/09/age-...
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Does it mean they support it? Just because child abuse happens with Americans, does it mean America supports it?
Yes, that did happen during the 1800s.

Until secular laws changed to protect young girls into forced marriage.

Since: Feb 14

Location hidden

#133408 Jul 4, 2014
Happy 4th to everyone.
keep it safe and real..
Peace!

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#133409 Jul 4, 2014
pusherman_ wrote:
<quoted text> It still doesn't disqualify it either, it's not so much the name as it is the referencing of them peoples leaving Egypt. Sure, doesn't prove a thing, but doesn't disprove it either.
The volcano that erupted would have for sure covered up any evidence of them peoples leaving, but as other guy said on here, volcanic ash will preserve whatever they left behind, the only problem with that is, where to look for it..
doesn't surprise me that some don't agree, it's probably the same study minded people that agreed piltdown man was " missing link" and we know how that turned out, right!
This isn't about proving something wrong, its about evaluating evidence. I have no way to prove that gremlins don't come into my house at night and do battle with imps. But why would I choose to believe they do?

You believe something when the evidence is in favor of it. In this case the evidence is not in favor of an Exodus event therefore there is no reason to believe it really happened.

What is "study minded"? If you mean scientific then you need to brush up on your history. The Piltdown Man hoax was figured out by science. Science is self-correcting over time precisely because it is based on critical examination of evidence.

Do you believe in the Exodus because of evidence or because of faith? If evidence, then why do you ignore the stronger evidence against it? If faith, why make arguments about evidence?

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#133410 Jul 4, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
It was more important that the church thrive than to continue this practice. We don't know why it was stopped in Biblical times.
He moves His plan along. Same reasoning behind the lesser laws of the OT becoming null when the higher laws were brought back with Christ.
Does it not strike you as odd that god's plan seems to go along with what humans are doing anyway? In other words, I can point to social trends, Federal actions, and other historical events that explain why the LDS did things the way it did.

What purpose then does god serve in that picture? To paraphrase a lot of skeptics, the universe behaves in the way we would expect it to behave if no god was involved. Same with LDS history.

“I'll think about it.”

Since: Nov 07

central Florida

#133411 Jul 4, 2014
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
This isn't about proving something wrong, its about evaluating evidence. I have no way to prove that gremlins don't come into my house at night and do battle with imps. But why would I choose to believe they do?
You believe something when the evidence is in favor of it. In this case the evidence is not in favor of an Exodus event therefore there is no reason to believe it really happened.
What is "study minded"? If you mean scientific then you need to brush up on your history. The Piltdown Man hoax was figured out by science. Science is self-correcting over time precisely because it is based on critical examination of evidence.
Well said.
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text> Do you believe in the Exodus because of evidence or because of faith? If evidence, then why do you ignore the stronger evidence against it? If faith, why make arguments about evidence?
This is so well stated! Spot on!
I will be using this argument on the street corner discussions I have with fundie Christians every Friday afternoon.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#133413 Jul 4, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I do not challenge God. I believe in His holy purpose for sex and choose to do it under His guidelines. And I have a fantastic marriage and family because of it. I believe His guidelines include that it should be between a man and a woman. But I am not assertive in nature and choose to keep my opinions to myself on the topic of gay most of the time. I'm not so naive to think that gay marriage will not affect me or my family though. I do not think drinking alcohol is right either, and have already felt the effects of what comes from others when they drink alcohol. But I still do not condemn other drinkers. That isn't my place to judge them. I wish people didn't drink. And I wish I had my cousins back, but I sit with people as they drink all they time.
Well seeing as how you feel certain men even today speak for your god and you call them leaders, then you just confirmed my accusation of how you do not challenge your leaders.

So just how can gay marriage affect you, and is that effect so harmful, you deny homosexuals to have the very thing you claim is best for a sexual relationship?

I understand your dogma says gays should not marry. Repeating that line is not defending your beliefs. It is simply telling me why you refuse to question your leaders.

Those who were silent on slavery were part of the problem back in the day. And it is a fact your church spent a lot of money to stop gay marriage. So some of that money is yours.

And yes, others drinking can affect you. I would think more so than a gay person marrying the person they love.
Maybe you can see how the problems of outlawing alcohol caused more problems than it solved. It created problems. I think opposing gay marriage is creating a problem. I think prohibiting gay marriage has created many problems.
In a free society, things may affect you that you are not participating in. It is the price we pay for all to have basic freedoms. I do not see it as fair to deny people the privilege of marriage.
I see religions protests on this as extremely selfish.

I do not agree with religion, but I would fight to protect the basic right of worship. I would not sit silent and allow the society I live in to repress this right.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#133414 Jul 4, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry, I forgot you require paragraphs.
The polygamous groups that exist today are not a part of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
What does a paragraph have to do with it? You wrote one sentence. You claimed your church does what I said. In said post of mine, I was speaking of polygamy.
Your one sentence answers are not clear, and often lead to much confusion. Seems you are being really lazy, or just evasive.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#133415 Jul 4, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I do not challenge God. I believe in His holy purpose for sex and choose to do it under His guidelines. And I have a fantastic marriage and family because of it. I believe His guidelines include that it should be between a man and a woman. But I am not assertive in nature and choose to keep my opinions to myself on the topic of gay most of the time. I'm not so naive to think that gay marriage will not affect me or my family though. I do not think drinking alcohol is right either, and have already felt the effects of what comes from others when they drink alcohol. But I still do not condemn other drinkers. That isn't my place to judge them. I wish people didn't drink. And I wish I had my cousins back, but I sit with people as they drink all they time.
I do not doubt your marriage and family bring you great pleasure. So sad you deny that to millions.
It is so selfish, I really cannot find the words to express the level of said selfishness.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#133416 Jul 4, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>What does a paragraph have to do with it? You wrote one sentence. You claimed your church does what I said. In said post of mine, I was speaking of polygamy.
Your one sentence answers are not clear, and often lead to much confusion. Seems you are being really lazy, or just evasive.
LDS beliefs do not stand up to reason so it is difficult, if not impossible, for a firmly-entrenched Mormon to actually address arguments against them.

Case in point: horses in the BoM. Horses were not on this continent when the BoM stories were supposed to have taken place. This is a firmly established fact of science.

LDS responses?

1) Ignore it. It is spiritual truth, not history. Except when we want to argue that is it is history.

2) Ancient horses that did exist here might have survived (in legions) until more modern times. Despite there being NO evidence for this some will make the argument.

3) Joseph Smith used the word horse when it was actually some unknown animal...

Yep. There you have it. Avoid the truth since it is devastating to faith.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#133417 Jul 4, 2014
aWitchintheWoods wrote:
<quoted text>
Well said.
<quoted text>
This is so well stated! Spot on!
I will be using this argument on the street corner discussions I have with fundie Christians every Friday afternoon.
Thanks. All of this stuff just boils down to an understanding of burden of proof and how to think critically. When someone claims something amazing they have a burden of proof. You are not obligated to lend them your belief until they meet their burden.

But they want to flip that around and make the ridiculous claim that we should assume their beliefs are true until someone proves otherwise.

That's not how reality works.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#133418 Jul 4, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Not ignoring it, I just disagree with your stance and you already know why. Must we keep having the exact same discussion? You think I'm brainwashed and never challenge anything from leaders. I've demonstrated that this isn't the case, yet you keep saying it and accusing me of such. I will admit it gets old and makes me click the "next" arrow.
Again, we have yet to discuss this specific point on the subject.
Just as you do not stand up for the freedom for homosexuals to marry, your silence here is telling of how you refuse to question your leaders.
Yes, I do think you are brainwashed, and the fact you just accept certain men that claimed god does not approve of homosexuality, or gay marriage is my evidence. You have not said the first word to defend the idea of keeping homosexuals from marrying, other than it is what your leaders told you to do.
Maybe if you could tell me how it would affect you, and problems you feel it would have on society, you would seem less like a brainwashed person blindly following your leaders commands.

And sorry, I do not recall you ever questioning your leaders. Can you refresh my memory?

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#133419 Jul 4, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
It was more important that the church thrive than to continue this practice. We don't know why it was stopped in Biblical times.
He moves His plan along. Same reasoning behind the lesser laws of the OT becoming null when the higher laws were brought back with Christ.
So you really are not against the polygamy of the FLDS, you just go with the sect that puts priority on thriving? Or maybe you just believed certain leaders of your group without question.

I really want to know what you have ever questioned of your church leaders?

Since: Feb 14

Location hidden

#133421 Jul 4, 2014
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
This isn't about proving something wrong, its about evaluating evidence. I have no way to prove that gremlins don't come into my house at night and do battle with imps. But why would I choose to believe they do?
You believe something when the evidence is in favor of it. In this case the evidence is not in favor of an Exodus event therefore there is no reason to believe it really happened.
What is "study minded"? If you mean scientific then you need to brush up on your history. The Piltdown Man hoax was figured out by science. Science is self-correcting over time precisely because it is based on critical examination of evidence.
Do you believe in the Exodus because of evidence or because of faith? If evidence, then why do you ignore the stronger evidence against it? If faith, why make arguments about evidence?
To be honest, I don't know either way or the other.
I do not believe there were that many many people involved in the Exodus.
There is an Egyptian stone tablet that mention the Israelites have been laid waste, their seed ( land) is no more.
that alone Implies something went down, what? who the Hell knows.
Then the temple other guy mentioned does have them peoples Exodus on the walls ( hyksos) early Isrealites but again, who knows.
you do not know any more than anyone else, neither do they, cause if they did, they would not still be looking, but ultimately the Bible has to be taken on faith.
There is so many unanswered questions about our past that we'll never know, and the ones that do would probably never be truthful about it.
English teacher

Morehead, KY

#133422 Jul 4, 2014
Try teaching allusion to a bunch of sophomores who lack cultural, historical, and literary literacy. Teaching the Bible will alleviate some of all these three types of ignorance. So far, they can understand mostly pop culture allusions.

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