Bible study rules for public schools ...

Bible study rules for public schools proposed

There are 151924 comments on the The Courier-Journal story from Feb 10, 2010, titled Bible study rules for public schools proposed. In it, The Courier-Journal reports that:

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Courier-Journal.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#130071 May 7, 2014
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>Read it again? Why? It is recorded that Moses told the men of Levi to kill and they did. There was no recorded (hypothetical, of course) command from God and there is no account of how they were to decide who was faithful and who were the idolaters. They just killed and kept killing, even though (hypothetically, of course) God had told them 12 chapters earlier in His Own Voice "Thou Shalt Not Kill." Awww... Moses' anger got the best of him... tsk, tsk. Well that's alright then.. after all,(the hypothetical) God did let them wander for decades in the wilderness after ripping off the Egyptians. What more could anyone ask?

As far as "facts" go, let's look at this:
You claim: "God does not intervene to prevent every misdeed. He put man on earth and explained His expectations. We can't blame God when man decides to do something terrible to another individual."
To that is the obvious question, What god and what evidence do you have that any god (Jewish or otherwise) put man on Earth? Where is your evidence? Not only do you not have evidence and that all real and existent evidence flies in the face of your theology, you refuse to recognize that you even require evidence before pronouncing mythology as fact.
The most glaring single FACT is that you don't have any, don't want any and are happy not to be beholden to any.
Yeah read it again. Just before this God told Moses He was going to destroy them because He had already made the judgment against them. Moses asked that He spare them. Once He saw it for himself, he carried out the judgment God had made already because he was the prophet.

I am the one that has repeatedly said there will be no global evidence that God exists, remember? Why do you keep asking me for it. You used the word fact, not me. I was referring to your use of the word fact and asked you what facts you were referring to. Do you intentionally twist words to try to look correct?

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#130072 May 7, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
It is His plan. And I showed you what would happen if His plan were different. Yeah. I answered your question. You just don't like the answer because you disagree with God's plan and don't believe in the afterlife that His plan prepares you for. You not liking the answer doesn't make 2+2 equal any less than 4
130015. Read that post. You refuted none of it, as your statement here attests to.
I accused you of running because this post answers nothing in the post you responded to. It is pretty simple.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#130073 May 7, 2014
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>Knowledge isn't a matter of will. If I provide you with a piece of information, I'm not harming your free will by denying you the ability to be ignorant of that information.

do whut wrote, "
I stand by what I said. It is a perfect example that God showing Himself does not guarantee obedience or salvation. Like I said before. Even Satan believes in God. "

The contradiction stands. There is no logical reason for the Christian god to remain hidden. Knowledge of his existence would not harm free will - as you say, it does not guarantee obedience or salvation. Having knowledge of something does not make choices for you, it merely allows you to make a more informed decision. Your god expects people to make uninformed decisions, and choose irrational options, to be rewarded. That is backwards.

Furthermore, the Christian god has supposedly given knowledge of his existence to certain individuals, yet we never hear that the Apostles, or others, had their free will violated, or are we given a reasonable explanation for why some should receive such a privilege, while others do not.

There's only one explanation for why the Christian god is hidden: he does not exist.
You are missing it. Because God is a just god, He allows all of us to hear and understand His gospel before judgment day; to know He exists is just part of it. But since these folks saw for a certainty that He exists and they knew what He expected, there was no wait for their judgment. When those that die that did not hear the gospel, they get the opportunity to hear and accept in the Spirit World and wait for judgment day. What I'm saying is that judgment already happened for that group because they saw.

God expects us to make decisions using our conscience which we were given from Him. Our ability to reason comes from Him because we are created in His image. And our spirit existed before coming here. His Holy Spirit communicates with our spirit and this is how He expects us to learn of Him. It requires our effort and that is the important part. That is where faith comes in. This was part of His plan and the way He wants it to be.

Why certain ones were chosen we do not know. We know they were foreordained before coming here for that task/office. We also know that they could choose not to accept the calling. Maybe they were stronger in faith before coming here.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#130074 May 7, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope sorry. I don't have to prove to the masses that God exists. My moral and civic responsibilities are to lead an honest and productive life, pay my taxes, vote how I think will best benefit society, raise my children to be honest and productive, make my wife happy, help in any way I can in my community and vocation, serve my family and those around me, and spread the good news of Jesus Christ and what His atonement has done for us. Proving that God exists is not on my list.
Deny, deny, deny. As long as you >contend< your theocratic statements are "FACTS" you are morally bound to support them as FACTS. Otherwise, they are >>nothing<< at best or "bearing false witness" by your own code.

My moral and civic responsibilities are to lead an honest and productive life, pay my taxes, vote how I think will best benefit society, raise my children to be honest and productive, make my wife happy, help in any way I can in my community and vocation, serve my family and those around me...

"Spreading the good news of Jesus Christ and what His atonement has done for us" is not real. It was invented in the centuries following the death of the heretic and social reformer Jesus the Nazarite, so it is not on my list.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#130075 May 7, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
So you are one that blames God for the actions of vile men?
Why would you say that, when it is nothing he said. He simply demonstrated god did not help stop rapes. It does not blame god for the actions of men.
A god that does not exist would also not help stop any rapes.

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#130076 May 7, 2014
do whut wrote:
Because God is a just god, He allows all of us to hear and understand His gospel before judgment day; to know He exists is just part of it.
It's not just part of it. Without that, the entire thing falls apart. If the Christian god doesn't exist, then the message of salvation is 100% irrelevant.

If I tell you that you need to take a bath in Pepsi to immunize yourself from Cola Disease, are you going to do it? No, not when there's no reason to believe Cola Disease exists.
do whut wrote:
But since these folks saw for a certainty that He exists and they knew what He expected, there was no wait for their judgment.
Again, it's no coincidence that these supposed acts of intervention all occur in unreliable reports without any documented evidence.
do whut wrote:
God expects us to make decisions using our conscience which we were given from Him. Our ability to reason comes from Him because we are created in His image.
Then why would the Christian god expect people to avoid using reason as a prerequisite for salvation.
do whut wrote:
That is where faith comes in. This was part of His plan and the way He wants it to be.
...why? Why reward irrationality?
do whut wrote:
Why certain ones were chosen we do not know. We know they were foreordained before coming here for that task/office. We also know that they could choose not to accept the calling. Maybe they were stronger in faith before coming here.
To be blunt, this is a cop-out. "God works in mysterious ways" is simply another way of saying "this religion doesn't make sense".

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#130077 May 7, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
You forget, I'm LDS. We believe God appeared to Joseph Smith. And as I said, few believe him. I'm speaking in proportion to the population of those that follow Jesus Christ. It isn't a matter of doubting He could appear at any time. It is a matter of the distrust we have in our fellow man.
Do you have any idea of how many men claim to have seen Jesus and claim to speak for him? Should we trust them all? Or should we consider motives to lie? Should we consider know con artists as viable spokes persons for god?

I see no reason to believe JS ever spoke to a god. His book is clearly fabricated.
And until your Jesus shows himself, or at least produces some evidence of the story being true, I have no reason to think it is.
To expect otherwise is irrational. And you claim your god expects otherwise. Thus your god is irrational.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#130078 May 7, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah read it again. Just before this God told Moses He was going to destroy them because He had already made the judgment against them. Moses asked that He spare them. Once He saw it for himself, he carried out the judgment God had made already because he was the prophet.
I am the one that has repeatedly said there will be no global evidence that God exists, remember? Why do you keep asking me for it. You used the word fact, not me. I was referring to your use of the word fact and asked you what facts you were referring to. Do you intentionally twist words to try to look correct?
So your utmost devotion is placed in the infallible omniscient, omnipotent Creator of all time and space who changed his mind about blotting out the Jews of the Exodus because mere mortal Moshe said "Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever."
Oh, for Pete's sake.. you can't be serious.

According to the account, Moses called the faithful to him (who happened to be his own tribe, coincidentally) and launched the attack without any orders from YHWH. How is that intentionally twisting any words? It really seems that you are trying to construe Moses' previous conversations with the wrathful and jealous god as some sort of justified blank check for slaughter. That is the twist, if anything.

I keep insisting that you back up your "facts" because you insist the Bible, the BOM and your dogmas and doctrines are factual.
curious

Winter Garden, FL

#130079 May 7, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>You ironically accuse me of not understanding the scriptures when you seem to think they indicate Abe knew he would not have to kill his son for his god. This contradicts what most Christians believe.
The fact you felt need to throw a laundry list of accusations at me shows you have no real argument on this topic.
The laundry list of accusations are based on your own words and confessions ,which you dare not refute and are attempting to ignore.
I have clearly wxplained the events surrounding Isaac and Abraham...
The fact that you are unable to comprehend what I posted is due to your lack of faith and unbelief.
Abraham had established a relationship with God long before this evant took place.
God had made promises to Abraham which He fulfilled...
The birth of Isaac,through whom the covenant would be fulfilled , is of particular interest.
Neither Abraham or Sara believed that a child would be born to them because of their old age....Yet God kept His promise.....He was able to perform that which they believed to be impossible.... God kept His word and demonstrated that He could be trusted.
God decides to test Abraham's faith further,by asking him to sacrifice his son..
Now we need to look at the facts that are at abraham's disposal.
God has proven to Abraham to be true to His word.
He has further promised that it is through Isaac that the promise will be fulfilled.
God is now asking Abraham to sacrifice the son through whom He promised that the covenant would be fulfilled.
Abraham proceeds based on God's instructions,however he tells his servants to wait for him
until he and Isaac return. He further tells Isaac that God will provide the lamb for the sacrifice.
Why would he say that he asnd Isaac would return and that God would provide the lamb for the sacrifice?
I believe that based on his previous experiences with God, where God had done as He promised, Abraham had the faith to believe that the promise would be fulfilled through Isaac,
therefore, He,God,would still find a way tgo keep His word.
Which He did... He did not test Abraham beyond that which he was unable to bear and provided a way..........
I am sure that you are quite unable to understand that concept, you are an unbeliever, have no faith and because of that you are illequipped to understand.....You are not alone...
"Pre K" is as illequipped as you are.....



“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#130080 May 7, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Why so insulting? I guess you don't see why you end up in arguments with Christians. Most would retort: we will speak of this again on the other side and see if you still have the same feelings of who was delusional.
I will respond: let's try to keep this an adult conversation between people with different views. Why do both sides try to invoke anger on this topic? Just the fact that beliefs rest in the core of most individuals can spark contention, but why do it intentionally?
It isn't insulting to use proper terminology. It might be hurtful, but the truth (sans capital T) often is. There was no Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve, Jonah's fish, Great Flood, Parting of the Red Sea, Tower of Babel, Angel Moroni, Golden Plates, etc., etc. shrug. Sorry, but you have no business trying to teach children that there were.

Since: Apr 08

Cambridge, UK

#130081 May 7, 2014
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
I have not seen where any Christian on here has claimed to be smart or of a superior intelligence.
However , I have heard it from you, UMM, Witchetty and other atheists as to the superior intelligence of atheists..........
It would take a highly intelligent atheist like Lawrence Krauss to defend incest and necrophelia
It would take an intelligent atheist like Madalyn O'hair to suggest that 10 year old girls should be given free rein to have sex with whom ever and whenever
It would take an intelligent atheist like Peter Singer to condone beastiality , with the animals consent of course
It would take an intelligent atheist like Hitchens to condone his behaviour of having 2 homosexual affairs while married. to his wife.
It would take intelligent atheists to seek out unsuspecting souls , induce them into deconverting with false promises of freedom and happiness , then , when the maladies and afflictions that come with deconversion are visited on these poor souls , to deny the existence of these horrific maladies and afflictions
On the other hand, the less intelligent would conclude that these intelligent atheists are deceitful , cunning and are hellbent on leading debauched and immoral lives
So you've listed the names of some atheists who have said/done things of which you disapprove.

Big deal

I could do the sane thing and list a load of Christians who have done bad things.

Except that I don't, because unlike you, my points are strong enough and quite capable of standing on their own without support from false strawman arguments.

Since: Apr 08

Cambridge, UK

#130082 May 7, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
We believe that one must be transfigured in order to see God.
For no man has seen God at any time in the flesh, except quickened by the Spirit of God.
OK

Does this make John wrong when he said that no man has seen God?

Since: Apr 08

Cambridge, UK

#130083 May 7, 2014
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
There's a ton of weird interpretations about this story. Some of them contradictory. A lot of people think "god will provide the lamb" was a prophecy of Jesus. Yet Abraham said it. Does that mean Abraham knew Jesus was coming? If Abraham knew the game god was playing does that mean god didn't know Abraham knew it? Seems odd to think a man is smarter than god.
There's a strange Jewish interpretation of this story where it is assumed that god and the devil are having another bet, like they did in Job.
It seems most reasonable to read this story as a story about testing faith. Abraham really was prepared to murder his son with a knife. No joking around. He was gonna stab his own kid and bleed him out for god.
And Christians are forced to accept that this is a good thing. That's called giving up your sense of morality to a dictator with questionable and often changing whims.
The test of faith seems to be the interpretation I hear most often.

However, until curious mentioned it, I'd never heard of Abraham knowing all along that he wouldn't have to kill Isaac - which kind of knocks the faith test on the head.

You're right though. Believers have surrendered their conscience to an outstanding agency which makes them ripe for exploitation.

Since: Apr 08

Cambridge, UK

#130084 May 7, 2014
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
Holy crap, you are dodging the hell out of this.
No, of course not. I would have to first believe in such a god. But I am making an argument. If I grant that god exists as part of the argument then it should become a HUGE problem for you that children are raped to death.
God can't do ANYTHING to prevent this? He's so weak that diseased sicko can snatch up a 3-year-old and do things to her that would make you or I throw up to even consider?
If such a god exists then yes of course you should blame him. If no god exists then reality suddenly makes a lot more sense, doesn't it? The onus is on you and me to make a better world...exactly as if there wasn't a god involved.
The problem of evil and suffering in the world is far more indicative of an evil god as opposed to a loving one.

Sometimes I think believers should stop and ask themselves just what they would do if they were as all powerful and all knowing as they claim their god(s) is/are. Let's say they make a list of the ten most important things they would do.

Then they should look at their list and see just how many things on their list have happened.

Since: Apr 08

Cambridge, UK

#130085 May 7, 2014
Yes and Amen wrote:
Ex-gays being cured by Jesus!
You do NOT have to live in Sin!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =Z71XkZ22QBEXX
https://www.youtube.com/watch...
https://www.youtube.com/watch...
There are MANY many more!
You can be FREE....
Repent, and be Saved!
*sniff**sniff*

What's that smell?

Can anyone smell anything?

Smells like bullshit

Since: Apr 08

Cambridge, UK

#130086 May 7, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>You ironically accuse me of not understanding the scriptures when you seem to think they indicate Abe knew he would not have to kill his son for his god. This contradicts what most Christians believe.
The fact you felt need to throw a laundry list of accusations at me shows you have no real argument on this topic.
Yeah, despite my quoting him and linking directly to his post on this, he said he never said it.

He's been offered an opportunity to explain what he said and link to his quotes but he's remained silent.

Perhaps he's run away from this too.

Since: Apr 08

Cambridge, UK

#130087 May 7, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
No contradiction. Free will to act in any manner they chose still existed, but free will to believe in Him or not was gone. This is why I said judgment came quickly for that group.
I stand by what I said. It is a perfect example that God showing Himself does not guarantee obedience or salvation. Like I said before. Even Satan believes in God.
Yet there are many occasions where the bible god intervenes and makes people act in the way he wants them to and thus takes away their free will.

Since: Apr 08

Cambridge, UK

#130088 May 7, 2014
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
The laundry list of accusations are based on your own words and confessions ,which you dare not refute and are attempting to ignore.
I have clearly wxplained the events surrounding Isaac and Abraham...
The fact that you are unable to comprehend what I posted is due to your lack of faith and unbelief.
Abraham had established a relationship with God long before this evant took place.
God had made promises to Abraham which He fulfilled...
The birth of Isaac,through whom the covenant would be fulfilled , is of particular interest.
Neither Abraham or Sara believed that a child would be born to them because of their old age....Yet God kept His promise.....He was able to perform that which they believed to be impossible.... God kept His word and demonstrated that He could be trusted.
God decides to test Abraham's faith further,by asking him to sacrifice his son..
Now we need to look at the facts that are at abraham's disposal.
God has proven to Abraham to be true to His word.
He has further promised that it is through Isaac that the promise will be fulfilled.
God is now asking Abraham to sacrifice the son through whom He promised that the covenant would be fulfilled.
Abraham proceeds based on God's instructions,however he tells his servants to wait for him
until he and Isaac return. He further tells Isaac that God will provide the lamb for the sacrifice.
Why would he say that he asnd Isaac would return and that God would provide the lamb for the sacrifice?
I believe that based on his previous experiences with God, where God had done as He promised, Abraham had the faith to believe that the promise would be fulfilled through Isaac,
therefore, He,God,would still find a way tgo keep His word.
Which He did... He did not test Abraham beyond that which he was unable to bear and provided a way..........
I am sure that you are quite unable to understand that concept, you are an unbeliever, have no faith and because of that you are illequipped to understand.....You are not alone...
"Pre K" is as illequipped as you are.....
See, I told you.

God asked Abe to kill Isaac

Abe humoured God by playing along and pretending he was going to kill him.

God was fooled by this because he had to send an angel to tell Abe to stop.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#130089 May 7, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Few would believe me? So? What does that have to do with me believing? You seem to not even know what my objections are.
I already know claims mean nothing without evidence. The whole point of my concern is, appearing to just a few people is not going to convince me of the claim.
I see no reason a god could not appear to all. You have shown no reason I should believe any of your claims. They are just claims. They do not even pass the test of logic. I demonstrated what contradicts, and you failed to address those points. You ignored them and claimed you did not contradict. Well that is just another claim that has zero evidence. It means nothing to me.
All I'm saying is, this is what we believed happened to Joseph Smith for example. He surely then believed. But not many believe him. See my point?

I have given you a reason God will not appear to all. And explained why it is contrary to His plan and the reason we are on earth. You don't line the answer so you say it isn't an answer. Well like it or not, it is AN answer.

You aren't going to get scientific evidence. Stop looking and asking for it. I have explained to you how you can receive your own witness, so you either do that or keep complaining to believers about there not being evidence and waste your time. Your choice.

Since: Apr 08

Cambridge, UK

#130090 May 7, 2014
Let's look at this again:

God decided to test Abe by telling him to kill Isaac.

Abe knew he would never have to kill Isaac.

What kind of test is that?

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Barbourville Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
does anyone know micheal and junior sproles fro... (Jun '13) 19 min Jim 4
Whose the 2 guys at Sav a lot all the time? 1 hr Truth 7
Whatever happened to the Eye Dr. Gregory? 2 hr Eye Candy 10
Higher Property Taxes 3 hr Shame 23
Who will be the next Knox Co. Judge Exec.? 3 hr Top 52
Older men Younger women 3 hr KnowsBetter 18
house cleaner wanted 4 hr justin 1

Barbourville Jobs

More from around the web

Personal Finance

Barbourville Mortgages