Bible study rules for public schools ...

Bible study rules for public schools proposed

There are 166394 comments on the The Courier-Journal story from Feb 10, 2010, titled Bible study rules for public schools proposed. In it, The Courier-Journal reports that:

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Courier-Journal.

SistaNoneYa

Elyria, OH

#130044 May 7, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
You do not understand the significance and importance of free agency. If God intervened in every single aspect all the time, then our fate is predestined and there is no room for us to make any choices at all.
It is absolutely crushingly sad when a child dies or feels any pain at all. It is sad to us when anyone dies other than someone that lived an incredible, long life. But that doesn't mean we should blame God for the death of a little one. It is then that we should draw closer to God as His Holy Spirit is the comforter. We do not understand why bad things happen to good people. And our tendency is to place blame. We want to understand why, but sometimes we will not understand immediately. I do take comfort that I know that families are forever and that I have the ability to spend eternity with my wife and children, regardless of when we part on earth.
Wouldn't it be far more logical to spend time here on earth doing right by and for our families, while we are here, rather than counting on some sort of non-guarenteed afterlife time for error corrections, to do so?

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#130045 May 7, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I have no burden of proof. I already have a knowledge of God and understand that He asks us to have faith in Him. My only burden is to tell others what I have become aware of and how; to spread the good news. It is up to you to listen and test it yourself, or to deny it and rail against those that have a relationship with God.
To those that believe, it is no longer an assumption. To those that do not believe, believers will always appear as ignorant, uneducated, science hating sheep.
You don't slide that easily, bubba. As long as the religious continue to dictate to the others in society you are responsible for the burden of evidence. As long as legislation is drafted, court cases are levied, pledges are demanded and money is printed "In God's name" the burden of proof that there ever was such an entity persists. It is your moral and civic responsibility.

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#130046 May 7, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
The story of Moses is an excellent example of what I said.
It completely contradicts what you said.

You told us that God remains hidden because, if he revealed himself, then people would have no choice but to believe and follow. It would harm free will.

Now you give us an example where God makes himself visible, but people continue to disbelieve and/or disobey. Free will remained intact.

It's ridiculous to tell us that God remains hidden to preserve free will, and then point to a book where God repeatedly interacts with people and the world on a large scale (in the distance past before science, widespread education, and cameras, of course).

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#130047 May 7, 2014
SistaNoneYa wrote:
<quoted text>
You do have a way of flipping stuff around to exact polar opposite and backwards don't you lol.
Umm... so you think that sanity and reason is inseparable from faith in that which cannot be detected? Yeah, okay.... then there are no rules, all bets are off and you can believe in and state as "fact" anything you want willy nilly and at the drop of a hat.
With that in mind, if you mean polar opposite and backwards from that/your mode of "thinking", then I suppose I do have a way of "flipping stuff around."
Have you considered taking up a different distraction than debate - perhaps finger painting doggies and sunnyflowers or some such?

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#130048 May 7, 2014
SistaNoneYa wrote:
<quoted text>
Well thank you, on occasion, a cheezburger is tolerable, when hungry and there's nothing else around anyway.
Space or not, well... good job-you actually GOT that one!
(I'm not either..bless their hearts.)
I got that one? I dare say I "get" the gist of most posts When it comes to religies, like knock-knock jokes, I just choose not to acknowledge them all.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#130049 May 7, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
We believe that one must be transfigured in order to see God.
For no man has seen God at any time in the flesh, except quickened by the Spirit of God.
Transfigured?
I believe the term you were looking for is "delusional."

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#130050 May 7, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
If you intend to tell others what they believe or how wrong they are, yeah, you should know something more about it than superficial things you can learn while browsing the Internet.
And yet, that is EXACTLY the agenda of the fundamentalists, biblical moralists and believers, isn't it? Telling others what to believe, how "wrong" they are, how they should act, how they should dress, what they should or shouldn't say, what should be taught, what laws should pass... and all the while most of them operate from >>>feelings<< < and only possess at the very best a superficial understanding of anything they regurgitate - either in or out of the Bible.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#130051 May 7, 2014
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>Sounds like cult reasoning that would lead to atrocity to me. "Think like we do or we'll massacre you in YHWH's name, Amen." There isn't anything in the Mt. Sinai account that indicates the slaughter of 3,000 was in any way initiated by anyone but Moses or that it was conducted in an orderly or selective method to cleanse the flock and preserve the righteous. I understand that to reconcile one's theology one must turn a blind (faith) eye to the facts and the record now and again... and again, and again, and again....
Read again. God told Moses He was going to destroy the people several times throughout the scriptures. Moses pled for Him not to. Then anger got the best of him when he saw what they were doing and how far they strayed in a short time after witnessing what God did for them. Which facts were you referring to?

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#130052 May 7, 2014
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
You and your different monikers Pre K and acouple more that will eventually give you away,
continuously show your ignorance and ineptness in your knowledge of scriptures.
Abraham knew he was being tested and was being obedient to God's instructions...
Have you not read
'"God is faithful, and he will not let you be tested beyond your strength but with your testing he will also provide the way out so that you may be able to endure it"
And that is precisely what occured
Now , faithless Fools would, due to their ignorance,arrive at the same conclusions you and your other moniker arrived at....
God had promised that even at his and Sara's old age, they would conceive a child, Isaac. and it is through this child that the covenant would be fulfilled.
As is made very clear and logically one would conclude that sacrificing Isaac would contradict God's promise.
You and your other moniker have an innate ability of not understanding faith or what is written in the Scriptures.
Keep in mind that "when it comes to answering fools, you cannot winóbecause they are fools, and there is no practical cure for foolery
That is the reason why you claim that your points can not be refuted, for you there is no cure..........
Let us see where your foolishness has led you.....
That which you should hold dear , they who brought you into the world , your father and mother , you hold in contempt and have arbitrarily judged them as being delusional
Your own dead uncle you labeled as a hypocrite....Those are your words.
And you have become a member of a faith who are afflicted by many mental and physical maladies that you dare not defend.....
As a result you use your other moniker to try and inject the Moslem faith into the conversation in order to avoid facing the maladies that afflict those of your faith...
Seems that your scurrilous behaviour has no limits ........
Your continious blatherings of self righteousness, self aggrandizement of your " Logic and reasoning abilities" which you self proclaim can not be refuted are a farce.
The wise man need not brag , he leaves that behaviour to those who are insecure in their beliefs and need some false reinforcement, which they create , in order to feel good about themselves....
Your reputation is shot.....What are you gonna tell your friends when they say OOOH lala
Wake up.....Everly Bros,,,,,,,,,,1957
You ironically accuse me of not understanding the scriptures when you seem to think they indicate Abe knew he would not have to kill his son for his god. This contradicts what most Christians believe.

The fact you felt need to throw a laundry list of accusations at me shows you have no real argument on this topic.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#130053 May 7, 2014
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>That's inane.
So the free will of the aggressor trumps the free will of the victim? That is how your omniscient and omnipotent personal God works? God the Comforter... That's like complaining to the principal when your kid is getting beaten up by bullies every day and "Him" saying "I'm sorry your boy has a broken arm and his teeth knocked out, but it's character building. See you in church Sunday? Have a nice day."

What part of "free will" is involved when a young child dies from cancer or SIDS or has profound birth defects? Is their soul so inconsequential that God can and does justifiably revoke life or inflict it with constant suffering just to teach the parents and bystanders a lesson? Would it take a miraculous intervention had the vessel of that soul never had cells grow amok in the first place? Your meme "God moves in mysterious ways" evaporated centuries ago.
God does not intervene to prevent every misdeed. He put man on earth and explained His expectations. We can't blame God when man decides to do something terrible to another individual.
I do not know why He intervenes sometimes and sometimes does not. I don't pretend to know.
I do believe that some spirits were so valiant and righteous before coming here, that they do not need their faith to be tested. They only needed a physical body to progress.
Why do innocent people suffer? I don't know. Is it fair? I don't know. I can't see the big picture like God does. It doesn't feel fair when going through something bad or watching a loved one go through it, for sure. But I do have faith we will understand why one day.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#130054 May 7, 2014
GodsMyFire wrote:
Only cowards can propose against what is holy , for they may have no fear of the creator and live unholy lives and be sinful and all manner of trueths .
It is an abomination to be gay and it is unholy too.sad to be you when your damnation after life is real to you miscreants.
It is wrong to be so accepting of this aweful behavior , and you too shall be punished as well.
We need more of the holy messages to our neighbors and people all over the world , and it was ever so proficied in revelations that it would be and so it is
That is one hell of a pitchfork you got there.
The hate you show right off the bat tells me your beliefs are wrong.
Only cowards refuse to question their beliefs and religion.
Your statement shows you are just such a coward. Your statement is shockingly closed minded.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#130055 May 7, 2014
SistaNoneYa wrote:
<quoted text>Wouldn't it be far more logical to spend time here on earth doing right by and for our families, while we are here, rather than counting on some sort of non-guarenteed afterlife time for error corrections, to do so?
Absolutely. The sooner the better.
But I was speaking of when we are separated from loved ones by a death.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#130056 May 7, 2014
GodsMyFire wrote:
Only cowards can propose against what is holy , for they may have no fear of the creator and live unholy lives and be sinful and all manner of trueths .
It is an abomination to be gay and it is unholy too.sad to be you when your damnation after life is real to you miscreants.
It is wrong to be so accepting of this aweful behavior , and you too shall be punished as well.
We need more of the holy messages to our neighbors and people all over the world , and it was ever so proficied in revelations that it would be and so it is
Thanks for handing me a classic example of why faith is not good.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#130057 May 7, 2014
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>You don't slide that easily, bubba. As long as the religious continue to dictate to the others in society you are responsible for the burden of evidence. As long as legislation is drafted, court cases are levied, pledges are demanded and money is printed "In God's name" the burden of proof that there ever was such an entity persists. It is your moral and civic responsibility.
Nope sorry. I don't have to prove to the masses that God exists. My moral and civic responsibilities are to lead an honest and productive life, pay my taxes, vote how I think will best benefit society, raise my children to be honest and productive, make my wife happy, help in any way I can in my community and vocation, serve my family and those around me, and spread the good news of Jesus Christ and what His atonement has done for us. Proving that God exists is not on my list.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#130058 May 7, 2014
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>It completely contradicts what you said.

You told us that God remains hidden because, if he revealed himself, then people would have no choice but to believe and follow. It would harm free will.

Now you give us an example where God makes himself visible, but people continue to disbelieve and/or disobey. Free will remained intact.

It's ridiculous to tell us that God remains hidden to preserve free will, and then point to a book where God repeatedly interacts with people and the world on a large scale (in the distance past before science, widespread education, and cameras, of course).
No contradiction. Free will to act in any manner they chose still existed, but free will to believe in Him or not was gone. This is why I said judgment came quickly for that group.

I stand by what I said. It is a perfect example that God showing Himself does not guarantee obedience or salvation. Like I said before. Even Satan believes in God.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#130059 May 7, 2014
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>Transfigured?
I believe the term you were looking for is "delusional."
Why so insulting? I guess you don't see why you end up in arguments with Christians. Most would retort: we will speak of this again on the other side and see if you still have the same feelings of who was delusional.

I will respond: let's try to keep this an adult conversation between people with different views. Why do both sides try to invoke anger on this topic? Just the fact that beliefs rest in the core of most individuals can spark contention, but why do it intentionally?

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#130060 May 7, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
It is His plan. And I showed you what would happen if His plan were different. Yeah. I answered your question. You just don't like the answer because you disagree with God's plan and don't believe in the afterlife that His plan prepares you for. You not liking the answer doesn't make 2+2 equal any less than 4
So you refuse to address my objections to your answer? Who would have guessed you would run like a chicken? It is all you guys do, and yet you expect us to believe the crap you claim? Maybe if you had the balls to defend your claims, I would believe, who knows? But I am positive I will not believe as long as you cannot even defend your claims.
I showed very specific reasons I think your answer fails the logic test. It was a very contradictory statement.
I am sure you refuse to attempt to defend your claims because you know deep down they are flawed.
And your statement here shows you just blindly follow the claimed plan of god no matter how contradictory they may be.

I test your beliefs, and claims. I test claims of religion. They fail all the time. This is why I am atheist.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#130061 May 7, 2014
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>And yet, that is EXACTLY the agenda of the fundamentalists, biblical moralists and believers, isn't it? Telling others what to believe, how "wrong" they are, how they should act, how they should dress, what they should or shouldn't say, what should be taught, what laws should pass... and all the while most of them operate from >>>feelings<< < and only possess at the very best a superficial understanding of anything they regurgitate - either in or out of the Bible.
The problem rests with how humans behave and learn. Both sides read something and then believe they are an expert and try to attack others for not thinking the same thing. It's really on to say "I don't know" on some things. It's ok to figure things out together too. That's why I don't see any progress coming from contentious conversations. It becomes childish and insulting and both sides shut down. This thread is an excellent example of that.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#130062 May 7, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>So you refuse to address my objections to your answer? Who would have guessed you would run like a chicken? It is all you guys do, and yet you expect us to believe the crap you claim? Maybe if you had the balls to defend your claims, I would believe, who knows? But I am positive I will not believe as long as you cannot even defend your claims.
I showed very specific reasons I think your answer fails the logic test. It was a very contradictory statement.
I am sure you refuse to attempt to defend your claims because you know deep down they are flawed.
And your statement here shows you just blindly follow the claimed plan of god no matter how contradictory they may be.

I test your beliefs, and claims. I test claims of religion. They fail all the time. This is why I am atheist.
Which claim are you talking about?? I was about 12 pages behind and tried to catch up quickly. I didn't see a single post to me that I didn't respond to. Please clarify so I can try to re-explain things again on whatever topic you are talking about. I think I have been very open on here. Why do you resort to calling me a chicken and running when I have responded to your every post?

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#130063 May 7, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Read again. God told Moses He was going to destroy the people several times throughout the scriptures. Moses pled for Him not to. Then anger got the best of him when he saw what they were doing and how far they strayed in a short time after witnessing what God did for them. Which facts were you referring to?
Read it again? Why? It is recorded that Moses told the men of Levi to kill and they did. There was no recorded (hypothetical, of course) command from God and there is no account of how they were to decide who was faithful and who were the idolaters. They just killed and kept killing, even though (hypothetically, of course) God had told them 12 chapters earlier in His Own Voice "Thou Shalt Not Kill." Awww... Moses' anger got the best of him... tsk, tsk. Well that's alright then.. after all,(the hypothetical) God did let them wander for decades in the wilderness after ripping off the Egyptians. What more could anyone ask?

As far as "facts" go, let's look at this:
You claim: "God does not intervene to prevent every misdeed. He put man on earth and explained His expectations. We can't blame God when man decides to do something terrible to another individual."
To that is the obvious question, What god and what evidence do you have that any god (Jewish or otherwise) put man on Earth? Where is your evidence? Not only do you not have evidence and that all real and existent evidence flies in the face of your theology, you refuse to recognize that you even require evidence before pronouncing mythology as fact.
The most glaring single FACT is that you don't have any, don't want any and are happy not to be beholden to any.

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