Bible study rules for public schools ...

Bible study rules for public schools proposed

There are 149705 comments on the The Courier-Journal story from Feb 10, 2010, titled Bible study rules for public schools proposed. In it, The Courier-Journal reports that:

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Courier-Journal.

ChristWarrior

Louisburg, NC

#128537 Apr 18, 2014
Khatru, you may have wondered why God allows evil to exist in this world. It is the same reason that you can't have an up without a down! The same reason you can't have a left without a right! The same reason you can't have a front without a back! The same reason you can't have a day without a night! The same reason you can't have a life without a death! The same reason you can't have good without evil! Evil is just part of the Universal Truth like all of the examples just given. If evil did not exist, the ability to do true good would not exist either.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#128538 Apr 18, 2014
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Yiago"]<quoted text>If a brother and sister want to have sex and they are responsible enough to use protection to avoid pregnancy then what moral are they violating? Who has been harmed? No child is being conceived so you can't make any sort of biological argument against it.
That is his argument in a nutshell. He is not "advocating incest". He is making a point about the nature of morality, specifically that it is not a fixed, Biblical code. It is much, much more complex than that and we need to take the topic seriously if we want to live in a better world."
So if we follow your logic ,if a mother wanted to have sex with her son , as long as they use protection to prevent pregnancy ,what morals are they violating? Who has been harmed , no child is conceived so you can't make any sort of biological argument against it.
And , if a father wants to have a sexual relationship with his daughter ,same rules apply.
And , if a father wants to have a homosexual relationship with his son , since no child will be conceived and no one is harmed , that type of behaviour is permissible....
One has to wonder about the mental condition of those who condone that type of behaviour
and the terrible mental scars that it leaves...
In essence and please correct me if I am wrong;
You have no problems with someone's son and daughter having sex as long as they use protection?
And by the way , If a brother and sister want to have sex ,even with protection , indicates to me that they are highly irresponsible and are in need of counselling.
Actually I do have problems with it, same as you or anyone else. That is because we have innate reactions against such things. Mixing of gene pools within family is biologically unsafe, so we are hard wired to oppose it. We experience this as the "ick" factor.

I think it is gross too.

The point of what I posted is to demonstrate that there isn't a solid rational basis for this when you remove the possibility of reproduction. It is a point about how we think about morals, not about how it is ok to have sex with whoever you want.

In your reply you didn't address the actual argument at all. You just belched forth the ick factor and accused me of embracing the idea.

This is indicative of your mentality. You react, you don't think. Re-read the argument, think about it. No I do not endorse incest.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#128539 Apr 18, 2014
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
well now , so to you ,it seems that YOUR personal moral code is superior to the Christian moral code ,based on YOUR personal concept of morality.
So , you believe me to be morally deficient when I agree with the Old Testament Law that homosexuals should be put to death by stoning. On the other hand , let us look at which is
immoral,stoning or allowing to live
1)Missouri Man May Have Infected Over 300 men with HIV | TIME.com
HIV Positive College Student Knowingly Infects Over 30 People ...
madamenoire.com/342611/hiv-positive-college-s...
2)Jan 20, 2014 ... HIV positive college student has knowingly infected over 30 sexual male partners with aids virus..and there are many more
Homosexuality is a destructive behaviour which causes death and destruction. It is not an innocent activity,to be taken lightly as it's consequences affect all of society.
I await your excuses for defending YOUR personal type of morality
No.

Secular morality is superior to religious morality in every way. In fact, you adhere to secular morality all the time. You just try to shoehorn your faith into it.

It is not about my personal morality.

Address the argument for once. Don't throw red herrings into the mix. I'm not talking about psychopaths. I'm talking about whether you believe it has EVER been ok to stone people to death for being gay.

Yes or no?
Libertarian

Cadiz, KY

#128540 Apr 18, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>What your ideas here fail to take into account is what most any psychologist will agree upon. We are all basically equal in ability, but our environment changes our motive to achieve higher success. If our environment is not conducive to education, then we have an extremely small chance at being out of the norm. And your statements as of yet proves this point. You cite a tiny minority who did fall away from the norm. Well today the chances are so much higher for someone from a poor background to achieve success. Your system will put it back where it was back pre-civil war.
A poor parent that has no education will likely produce offspring of the same sort. Well the system America put in place is slowly changing that paradigm. It is slowly educating the masses. Even in my lifetime, many folks were without education. It will take a few more generations to really see the full results of the system.
Nonsense.

Intelligence is inherited biologically. Dumb begets dumb. Smart begets smart.

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#128541 Apr 18, 2014
Libertarian wrote:
<quoted text>
No. Before our system of tax supported "free and compulsory" education, when everyone paid their own way, the cream still managed to rise to the top.
...you have no way of knowing that. An absolute genius could have been wasted toiling in fields as a serf.
Libertarian wrote:
Examples from history: Isaac Newton. He could not afford to pay for college but worked his way through.
Isaac Newton came from a reasonably well off family that could afford a good education for him before college. If he had been born into a lower class, he never would have had that opportunity.
Libertarian wrote:
John D. Rockefeller. He was a poor immigrant without education but ended the world's wealthiest man.
Rockefeller wasn't an immigrant. And he didn't go without an education. He went to both private and (omg) public schools.
Libertarian wrote:
In that system, the system in which competition rules, rewards ability.
The current system already rewards ability. It also gives everyone a baseline of *opportunity*.
Libertarian wrote:
What we have is a mass production system that educates people who do not have the ability to attain it on their own. It is given to them, paid for by the taxpayers. The result is that people who do not have the ability to succeed later are educated to think that they are entitled to success
This is completely nonsense. The current system doesn't teach entitlement to success at all. You have to work hard to succeed at school and open up further opportunities for yourself.

Your preferred system primarily rewards being *lucky* and born into the right socioeconomic class.
Libertarian wrote:
As a result they refuse to take the jobs that they are naturally suited to do
That they are "naturally suited to do"? What makes them naturally suited for them? Are all born people dunces with IQs of 60 who can't perform any tasks other than menial labor?
Libertarian wrote:
If that free education was not available to those people, they would be content to work at their natural level in the socio-economic pyramid.
lol, complete nonsense. If you take away opportunities, people will be happy being poor and miserable. Examples, please.

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#128542 Apr 18, 2014
Libertarian wrote:
Only after the lunacy of educating the lower classes took hold did a great disparity of wealth appear.
The largest growth in wealth disparity was during the Gilded Age, which was before the Progressive Age where major expansion of public education occurred.

Please explain how educating the lower classes leads to a larger wealth gap.

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#128543 Apr 18, 2014
Libertarian wrote:
There are even posters on the classroom doors that read something like this:
Seems to me that such a poster would be saying that the harder you work, the better off you'll be.

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#128544 Apr 18, 2014
ChristWarrior wrote:
Khatru, you may have wondered why God allows evil to exist in this world. It is the same reason that you can't have an up without a down! The same reason you can't have a left without a right! The same reason you can't have a front without a back! The same reason you can't have a day without a night! The same reason you can't have a life without a death! The same reason you can't have good without evil! Evil is just part of the Universal Truth like all of the examples just given. If evil did not exist, the ability to do true good would not exist either.
This is simply not true. If I were a deity, I could wipe out ebola and polio in a second. This would be an obvious reduction in evil, and not affect "good" at all.

The Problem of Evil is fatal for Christianity.

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#128545 Apr 18, 2014
Libertarian wrote:
<quoted text>
Nonsense.
Intelligence is inherited biologically. Dumb begets dumb. Smart begets smart.
Intelligence in inherited, but it is also affected by environment. A child born into a poor family could have a higher potential IQ than a child born into a rich family, but not be as intelligent due to nutrition, disease, and education.

By the way, you never answered my questions about yourself. Are you 15-22, white, a male, and middle to upper middle class? Did you go to private or public schools?
Libertarian

Cadiz, KY

#128546 Apr 18, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>I have never seen such a poster, although the last time I walked through a public school was about four years ago when my son was in one. Maybe this is something new? I see you list no amounts, so you have yet to prove your point. Maybe if you showed evidence of the poster showing a person should expect to make what society calls middle class with a high school education, you may have an argument. But you did not come close to this at all. I do not entirely doubt such a poster exists, but again, if you fail to say what the poster claims fully, you have no argument. For all I know, you are simply believing what some radio talk show host is feeding you.
And though it has no bearing on the debate, I have read one of John Stossel's books on libertarianism. I hear he is an agnostic, so I am not sure you respect him.
Examples of posters:(All you have to do is look for yourself, but since you won't I did it for you):

https://www.youthchg.com/images/posters/poste...
Libertarian

Cadiz, KY

#128547 Apr 18, 2014
Libertarian

Cadiz, KY

#128548 Apr 18, 2014
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
Intelligence in inherited, but it is also affected by environment. A child born into a poor family could have a higher potential IQ than a child born into a rich family, but not be as intelligent due to nutrition, disease, and education.
By the way, you never answered my questions about yourself. Are you 15-22, white, a male, and middle to upper middle class? Did you go to private or public schools?
No. I am not 15-22. Try tripling the 22 and then deduct 11.

Male. White.

I was forced to go to public schools and hated every damned minute of it.

Middle to upper middle class. Self made. Came from a poor family. Neither parent had a high school diploma but both were intelligent people. Both had self-educated themselves. When I was a kid we had a geology professor for a neighbor. I dad bet him $100 that he could take any geology test that he gave his college students, at any level, and pass it with at least a B. He gave my dad one for freshmen. Grade: A. 100 percent. Professor lost $100. Dad gave him the chance to get his money back by giving him one for upper level course. Again: Grade A. Professor lost another $100.

Professor then asked, "Why the hell didn't you go to college and become a professor?"

My father answered, "Why? I make twice what you do now."

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#128549 Apr 18, 2014
Libertarian wrote:
I was forced to go to public schools and hated every damned minute of it.

Middle to upper middle class. Self made. Came from a poor family.
You came from a poor family? So, under your magical free market education system, then would only have been able to afford a really crappy education for you.

In other words, public schools allowed you to obtain an education better than you would have gotten otherwise.
Libertarian wrote:
Neither parent had a high school diploma but both were intelligent people. Both had self-educated themselves.
So they're both intelligent people and hard workers, but they were still poor? Shouldn't their natural intelligence and "moral virtue" have rocketed them to high levels of success?
Libertarian wrote:
Professor then asked, "Why the hell didn't you go to college and become a professor?"
My father answered, "Why? I make twice what you do now."
Professors make a lot of money. Your dad was making double that? That's a ton of money. I thought you said you were from a poor family?

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#128550 Apr 18, 2014
ChristWarrior wrote:
<quoted text> That is very interesting, and thank you for your addition to the discussion, but China's atheist leader Mao Zedong was responsible for nearly 60 million deaths, 45 million of them occurring during the "Great Leap Forward." Leon Trotsky, an atheist Bolshevik, was responsible for leading the killing of over 100 million Christian Russians during his lifetime.
Godwins' Law never gets old with you guys, does it? HitlerStalinMao, HitlerStalinMao,.. it's like some warped kind of mantra. I find it supremely ironic when someone proclaims themselves a "warrior for Christ" (John 18:11)- even before they start aping "facts and figures" they read from their fellow apologists' blogs (aka "bearing false witness.")
Actually, your "100 million" number is grossly over-inflated and it was Lenin and Yaroslavsky who were responsible for the overwhelming majority of those deaths. In the paranoid Soviet Union, bad things happened to counter-revolutionary supporters even if they weren't in a church.
curious

Winter Garden, FL

#128551 Apr 18, 2014
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
There are no gods.
There are gods.
There is no god
There is a god
However, only an idiot would claim to be 100% correct with either of those statements.
Only a fool would believe there is no GOD
Onthe other hand, one who seeks God and is provided evidence by Him whom he is seeking,using the evidrnce providrd him,can rightfully conclude and believe there is a God.
An idiot would claim that all the evidence provided was caused by chance or concoct some other excuse in order to justify his/ her calamitous atheist faith.....
There is a God He lives and reigns and Jesus Christ is Lord..........

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#128553 Apr 18, 2014
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Only a fool would believe there is no GOD
You seem pretty fond of that line. Foolish of you.
The writers of your magic book had a vested interest in including that little morsel - or does that logic escape you?
ChristWarrior

Louisburg, NC

#128554 Apr 18, 2014
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
This is simply not true. If I were a deity, I could wipe out ebola and polio in a second. This would be an obvious reduction in evil, and not affect "good" at all.
The Problem of Evil is fatal for Christianity.
That is your opinion. My opinion is that good and evil are likely two forces that, in this realm of existence, need one another to exist. They essentially feed off of each other, like the Ying and Yang concept. There has to be a balance. We of course want there to be far more good in this world, but in order for us in this realm to be able to keep good alive, you must have some evil existing in order for good to have a reason to exist. They trigger each other to an extent. Only God will be able to manipulate this relationship between good and evil, creating a realm that is pure good and void of all evil. The best that we can do as humans is to minimize evil as much as we can. Regardless of how little evil exists in this world, good will be able to excel to unbelievable heights simply because of the fact that there is some evil there.
Libertarian

Cadiz, KY

#128555 Apr 18, 2014
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
You came from a poor family? So, under your magical free market education system, then would only have been able to afford a really crappy education for you.
In other words, public schools allowed you to obtain an education better than you would have gotten otherwise.
<quoted text>
So they're both intelligent people and hard workers, but they were still poor? Shouldn't their natural intelligence and "moral virtue" have rocketed them to high levels of success?
<quoted text>
Professors make a lot of money. Your dad was making double that? That's a ton of money. I thought you said you were from a poor family?
Not so.

When I say poor family, I meant that my parents were poor as children. Both sets of grandparents were tenant farmers / sharecroppers. My father quit school during the Great Depression to go to work and help support the family. My mother was expelled from high school when she married him. They had the money to send me to private school but the place where we lived did not have one. My parents would have home schooled but that was illegal then. So I was stuck in the hellhole of public schools.

And, like I said, I hated every damned minute of it. I really did not get any eduction there either. My mother had already taught me how to read before I started first grade. I was bored through the whole damn process because it was education by the convoy method - everybody moved at the speed of the slowest ship.
Libertarian

Cadiz, KY

#128556 Apr 18, 2014
As to college professors making "a ton of money" I thought that too before I learned better.

College professors don't make but about $45,000 a year tops. Starting salary in some fields is around $30,000. Their pay scale and that of public school teachers is about the same despite the fact that they have PhD degrees. They are either tremendously underpaid according to the "more education = more money" propaganda or public school teachers are tremendously overpaid. I tend to think it is the latter.

My dad was a diesel mechanic who owned his own business that serviced heavy construction equipment in the field. He had a couple of other mechanics working for him. Made about double what a professor did.

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#128557 Apr 18, 2014
ChristWarrior wrote:
<quoted text> That is your opinion. My opinion is that good and evil are likely two forces that, in this realm of existence, need one another to exist. They essentially feed off of each other, like the Ying and Yang concept. There has to be a balance.
That's not a Christian view. In Christian theology, there were times when good (God) existed, but evil did not.
ChristWarrior wrote:
We of course want there to be far more good in this world, but in order for us in this realm to be able to keep good alive, you must have some evil existing in order for good to have a reason to exist.
This does not follow logically. Awful things do not have to exist for good things to exist.
ChristWarrior wrote:
Only God will be able to manipulate this relationship between good and evil, creating a realm that is pure good and void of all evil.
Now you're contradicting yourself and admitting that a realm of pure good is possible. So why don't we have it here?

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