Bible study rules for public schools ...

Bible study rules for public schools proposed

There are 153749 comments on the The Courier-Journal story from Feb 10, 2010, titled Bible study rules for public schools proposed. In it, The Courier-Journal reports that:

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Courier-Journal.

Libertarian

Cadiz, KY

#128416 Apr 16, 2014
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
So that a large portion of the population can't get a good education and is stuck with little to no economic mobility or opportunities? Sounds like a recipe for a great society.
<quoted text>
People are already free to enroll their children in religious schools if science is a problem for them. We shouldn't aim for a society where many children are taught to reject science.
Parents should be responsible for the education of their children and for paying for that education. It should not be the burden of taxpayers.

Our current tax funded "free and compulsory" education system is a recipe for societal disaster. A healthy society is shaped like a pyramid. It has a large working class base that does the manual labor. This is the largest class. Members of this working class do not need any education beyond the ability to read and write and do simple arithmetic. Those who do the very lowest jobs do not need even that. Just above this class is a slightly smaller, slightly better educated class that does the slightly more demanding jobs. This is repeated, slightly smaller, slightly better educated class atop slightly larger, less educated class, upward in the pyramid. Near the top are the small professional class, the managers, etc. Above them, at the pinnacle, is the small class that owns the means of production and controls capital.

Our society is not pyramid shaped. Its laboring classes are too thin and too narrow to be a base. The educated classes above them are too broad, broader than the classes below in fact. What we have is a structure that is narrow at the base and thick in the middle. Such a structure is inherently unstable. The economy cannot produce enough productive jobs for the over educated mass in the middle. So what happens is government steps in, taxes the income of the producers, and uses it to pay non-productive "public" workers, people whose jobs contribute nothing to the increase in national wealth. They are just as much parasites as the lowest stereotypical welfare queen. Further, public schools prejudice their students against working in the lower jobs. They are taught that if they get the high school diploma, college degree, etc. they are supposed to do a certain kind of "better" job. As a result we are no longer a productive society. All of our manufactured goods come from China, Bangladesh, or somewhere else where they still have a large working class base.
curious

Winter Garden, FL

#128417 Apr 16, 2014
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong again
My mind tells me "there are no gods"
Plural, you see, not singular.
A distinction you may find difficult to comprehend.
I comprehend it completely.
So, your mind tells you" there are no Gods"
Was it not you who recently posted that there was a possibility that a God or Gods existed?
Who told you that? your mind or maybe your subconscious.
So, if " there are no Gods" what caused you to doubt?
Why do you continuously, day after day, continue debating that which you claim you do not believe in? Why is it that you are unable and incapable of keeping God out of your mind?
Why are you so obsessed with continuing to discuss that issue for years on end.
Something has gone awry with your mind for which you can not provide an explanation
Get a grip..........

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#128418 Apr 16, 2014
Libertarian wrote:
<quoted text>
Parents should be responsible for the education of their children and for paying for that education. It should not be the burden of taxpayers.
Why not? The education of children is an issue of society-wide importance.
Libertarian wrote:
Our current tax funded "free and compulsory" education system is a recipe for societal disaster.
Which is why all the successful nations around the world implement such a system, right?

Your position is in opposition to reality.
Libertarian wrote:
A healthy society is shaped like a pyramid.
Why is that healthy?
Libertarian wrote:
What we have is a structure that is narrow at the base and thick in the middle. Such a structure is inherently unstable.
On the contrary, societies with large middle classes are very stable. Those with very large underclasses are unstable because poor, desperate people are likely to turn to crime or to want revolution.

Your position is in opposition to history.
Libertarian wrote:
Further, public schools prejudice their students against working in the lower jobs. They are taught that if they get the high school diploma, college degree, etc. they are supposed to do a certain kind of "better" job.
Of course. Low-skill jobs like manufacturing are largely GONE. You want a huge portion of our population to prepare for jobs that don't exist. Great plan.

Your position is in opposition to the current state of the world.
Libertarian wrote:
As a result we are no longer a productive society.
We're more productive than ever.
Libertarian wrote:
All of our manufactured goods come from China, Bangladesh, or somewhere else where they still have a large working class base.
Yes, because they have extremely low standards of living. That's what you want HERE?
Libertarian

Cadiz, KY

#128419 Apr 16, 2014
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
Why not? The education of children is an issue of society-wide importance.
<quoted text>
Which is why all the successful nations around the world implement such a system, right?
Your position is in opposition to reality.
<quoted text>
Why is that healthy?
<quoted text>
On the contrary, societies with large middle classes are very stable. Those with very large underclasses are unstable because poor, desperate people are likely to turn to crime or to want revolution.
Your position is in opposition to history.
<quoted text>
Of course. Low-skill jobs like manufacturing are largely GONE. You want a huge portion of our population to prepare for jobs that don't exist. Great plan.
Your position is in opposition to the current state of the world.
<quoted text>
We're more productive than ever.
<quoted text>
Yes, because they have extremely low standards of living. That's what you want HERE?
The name that you chose for yourself "The Box" is fitting. It is plain that you have been so indoctrinated with the Socialist poison peddled in the public schools that you are willing to help build your own coffin and dig your own grave.

Repeat: Our society, with its over educated masses and its too small, too thin working class base is inherently unstable. It will collapse. It is not a matter of if, it is a matter of when.

Educating more people than a balanced, stable economic structure, and the only such structure is the pyramid that I described, is a prescription for revolution. You can head that revolution off for a while by providing more and more welfare to support the non-working bottom class, but you cannot head it off forever. Eventually the burden will become too great for the producers to bear. When they can no longer, or will no longer, support the non-working classes, the whole structure will come crashing down. We are not far from that point now.

Our society has to become one that is structured to produce. That means we must educate the appropriate numbers of people to the appropriate levels. That does not mean over educating them. Education should balance the needs for people at each level. There are only two ways to do that. One is a system of government administered tests, like in China and some other Socialist countries. Even if one was prepared to accept that level of government supervision of people's lives -- and I am not -- it would be too susceptible to well intentioned but stupid efforts to "level the playing field" (meaning tilt it to favor one group or another) in the nature of "Affirmative Action" or some such catchy name. The other, the better, way is to let the free market decide. Those that are capable of finding a way to pay for education will be the ones most capable of benefiting from it. Let the free market work.
Libertarian

Cadiz, KY

#128420 Apr 16, 2014
You said, "Of course. Low-skill jobs like manufacturing are largely GONE. You want a huge portion of our population to prepare for jobs that don't exist."

Those jobs no longer exist because we educated the lowest level of the working base to the point that they will no longer do those jobs for a competitive wage. Those people now been taught that because they have a certain level of education they should expect a "better" job, but they lack the intellect and ability to do anything else. Add in the fact that about 25 percent of all people lack the moral inclination to work more than the bare minimum necessary to survive, and welfare, and you end up with the large non-working welfare class. There are jobs that that class could do, but won't. If that is not true, then why are all the low grade basic labor jobs now done by illegal aliens? Those illegals are not "taking Americans' jobs." They are taking jobs that the lowest class of Americans will no longer do. They will no longer do them because the public schools have taught them that they are too educated to do that kind of work.
Libertarian

Cadiz, KY

#128421 Apr 16, 2014
"Societies with large middle classes are very stable. Those with very large underclasses are unstable because poor, desperate people are likely to turn to crime or to want revolution."

This is completely false. Bolshevik rhetoric notwithstanding, there has never been a successful revolution planned, led, and carried out by the underclasses. Revolutions are always, ALWAYS the result and work of a frustrated, inflated middle class in a society that has educated more people to expect a middle class lifestyle (and our middle class now expects an upper class lifestyle) than a stable economy can support at that level. Of all the Bolshevik leadership, only one, Stalin, was from a working class background. All the others were from the middle class. Even Karl Marx was from the middle class.
USA

Jamestown, KY

#128422 Apr 16, 2014
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
So you cannot debate on content, you can only troll.
How many years have you (ChromiuMan) been debating the plan of satan on Topix, sorry you're on the wrong side.
ChristWarrior

Louisburg, NC

#128423 Apr 16, 2014
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
They have the same base mythology (god of Abraham), but clearly distinct messages and views. That's not really the point though. You could have removed that one specific god and simply referred to Zeus or Krishna.
The primary point was that atheists do not hate your god, just as you do not hate gods that you don't believe in.
<quoted text>
Can you provide any evidence that your god is more intelligent than you or I? If he was more intelligent, wouldn't he actually be able to find solutions to his goals?
I gave you a specific example of how dumb and inefficient his method of communication was.
<quoted text>
Really? If a parent wanted to punish their child for inappropriate behavior, and decided to stab themselves instead of beating the child, wouldn't you consider that insane?
<quoted text>
So Jesus is dead?
<quoted text>
WOW. They were ASKING to be raped because they happened to be born into a certain country?
<quoted text>
He did not deliver the message than parts of the OT were in error. Now, instead of knowing what errors exist, we simply have contradictions.
Regardless, it is the same God that the Quran and Bible are referencing. Those other gods are misinterpretations of the true God, in other words, they experienced God, but possibly misinturpreted His message. Atheists say that they do not believe in God, but if you were to put them under hypnosis, I guarantee you that the overwhelming would say that they hated Him or at least the idea of Him. He has found solutions to many of His goals, and will find solutions for the rest in time. The reason that it takes so long for His goals to be carried out is because he allows us to do much of the work for Him while He guides us. Humanity has God-given free will whether or not to accept Him. Also, I can provide evidence that He is far more intelligent than you and I: Do you know how to build an atom? Do you know how to create something out of nothing? Do you know how to make an organic brain? Can you build a star? These are things that God did that no man has been able to do and never will be able to because God is smarter. Your analogy to God's sacrifice is insane. Once again, I will tell you that His intelligence is far greater than ours, therefore, it is not surprising that we do not fully understand His ways. Jesus died, but resurrected. The women may have been asking to be raped because they were thumbing their noses at God. His message of "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" does not create a contradiction, it merely shows that different times call for different measures.
ChristWarrior

Louisburg, NC

#128424 Apr 16, 2014
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
God and Allah are the same?
Ma, Allahgod must really hate America.
When the 9/11 bombers prayed to him to ensure the success of their mission and usher them into paradise, their prayers were answered.
He probably does hate America! Good observation Khatru! The 9/11 HIJACKERS (there were no bombs used on 9/11, silly goose) were acting on God given free will, which sometimes creates unfortunate circumstances for the rest of us. In the end, it will all work out.

“I'll think about it.”

Since: Nov 07

central Florida

#128425 Apr 16, 2014
RealTalk wrote:
<quoted text> My goodness "aWitchintheWoods"! If I was as ugly as you are, I probably wouldn't believe in God either!!! You have a face for radio if I have ever seen one! Put a bag over your face for a change, you hideous old hag!
Such a charmer you are. LOL!

So "ChristWarrior" is your nice, reasonable Christian guy persona.

"KarlMarxtheSpot" must be your political side.

And "RealTalk" is your real self. You have ugly on the inside, dear.

Good to get that sorted out early on.
ChristWarrior

Louisburg, NC

#128426 Apr 16, 2014
aWitchintheWoods wrote:
<quoted text>
Such a charmer you are. LOL!
So "ChristWarrior" is your nice, reasonable Christian guy persona.
"KarlMarxtheSpot" must be your political side.
And "RealTalk" is your real self. You have ugly on the inside, dear.
Good to get that sorted out early on.
I am sorry RealTalk said those things, but I do not know who that person is!

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#128427 Apr 16, 2014
Libertarian wrote:
<quoted text>
Point is there should not be any tax funded public schools of any kind, religious or otherwise. Education should be delivered by the free market. In a totally free market people who want religious instruction in schools (and conversely do not want their children taught evolution, modern geology, etc. that conflicts with their religious beliefs) would be free to enroll their children in church run religious schools. People who did not want religion taught to their children would be perfectly free to enroll them in a non-religious scientific school that taught those things. Before that freedom to choose can be established tax funded public schools have to be abolished. There is no other way.
What do you think of the science of biology in light of the theory of evolution?

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#128428 Apr 16, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>This point has been made to Curious many times, yet he ignores it. So the ignoring part is clearly the way his brain works. It is the denial thing that psychologists say is the key to believing in things that are not real. It is delusion. Pretty text book stuff. Curious ensures me daily that the experts are correct.
Seems to be a symptom of Fundamentalist thinking. But that's to be expected when your starting point is faith. With that as a starting point you have no choice but to defend it rather than use critical thinking.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#128429 Apr 16, 2014
curious wrote:
I am not suggesting it never happened , I am suggesting that the law served as a deterrent
Do you have evidence for this? Other than having no Biblical stories in which it happened? I just find some of the arguments you make to be bizarre. Why even make this kind of argument in the first place?

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#128430 Apr 16, 2014
curious wrote:
Matter of fact , atheist stalwarts such as Peter Singer, Chris Hitchens, Sam Harris and Leonard Krauss condone such behaviour as beastiality
According to Singer , if one finds the act pleasurable , there is nothing wrong with it.
He claimed in a tv Interview that the vagina of asheep is more pleasurable than the vagina of a female human..
That these victims are being raped,there is little doubt , as they are in no position to consent to this type of behaviour
You have been tragically misinformed. None of the people on your list condone cruelty to animals. In fact, Peter Singer is an ardent vegetarian and has been a champion for animals' rights for years. What you are probably referring to are his philosophical arguments about the nature of "bestiality" and the fact that when a dog humps your leg the dog is not being injured. His point is that, like many other taboo issues, there are nuances to the topic that are lost in our knee jerk reaction to them. And he never said that "if one finds the act pleasurable there is no harm in it". That is a misrepresentation of the actual discussion.

Now that being said I totally agree that if you grab a dog and have your way with it you are in fact raping that dog. And that is absolutely NOT what Peter Singer is talking about. You've been reading too much Ann Coulter.

I'm familiar with the philosophies of the others on your list and I can assure you they do not hold the cartoonishly stupid point of view you presented here.

Nothing irritates me more than misrepresentation of the truth.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#128431 Apr 16, 2014
curious wrote:
3)Do you also think it might be a good idea to stone men who lie with other men? It would be consistent with your stone age thinking.

Based on the Old Testament covenant and it's objectives , although harsh , I would agree
Let us remember that the Israelis agreed to those terms.
Now we have a new covenant , as God promised....
The rock foundation of which is Jesus Christ,as you well know.
The New Covenant is superior to the Old Covenant and replaces the Old Covenant.
That is why Christ , when asked if the woman caght in adultery should be stoned repled, let he who is withouit sin cas the first stone
And this is why I think pretty lowly of you and people like you.

You are so ate up with the god concept you would sacrifice your own moral sense because of it. Surely when you typed this reply there was a moment where you thought to yourself it would be WRONG to stone a man to death...REGARDLESS of the reason. Right? Did you not even for one second have that thought?

That little voice in your head is called your humanity. You cut it off so you could reconcile a monstrous commandment from a Bronze Age collection of stories.

That is what makes theism morally bankrupt. I'm not very happy that you proved it. I'd rather have seen you speak some moral truth in the matter and reject the idea of stoning people regardless of the context. For that is what a moral person would do.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#128432 Apr 16, 2014
Libertarian wrote:
<quoted text>
Parents should be responsible for the education of their children and for paying for that education. It should not be the burden of taxpayers.
Our current tax funded "free and compulsory" education system is a recipe for societal disaster. A healthy society is shaped like a pyramid. It has a large working class base that does the manual labor. This is the largest class. Members of this working class do not need any education beyond the ability to read and write and do simple arithmetic. Those who do the very lowest jobs do not need even that. Just above this class is a slightly smaller, slightly better educated class that does the slightly more demanding jobs. This is repeated, slightly smaller, slightly better educated class atop slightly larger, less educated class, upward in the pyramid. Near the top are the small professional class, the managers, etc. Above them, at the pinnacle, is the small class that owns the means of production and controls capital.
Our society is not pyramid shaped. Its laboring classes are too thin and too narrow to be a base. The educated classes above them are too broad, broader than the classes below in fact. What we have is a structure that is narrow at the base and thick in the middle. Such a structure is inherently unstable. The economy cannot produce enough productive jobs for the over educated mass in the middle. So what happens is government steps in, taxes the income of the producers, and uses it to pay non-productive "public" workers, people whose jobs contribute nothing to the increase in national wealth. They are just as much parasites as the lowest stereotypical welfare queen. Further, public schools prejudice their students against working in the lower jobs. They are taught that if they get the high school diploma, college degree, etc. they are supposed to do a certain kind of "better" job. As a result we are no longer a productive society. All of our manufactured goods come from China, Bangladesh, or somewhere else where they still have a large working class base.
I love how brutal you sound right here: "Members of this working class do not need any education beyond the ability to read and write and do simple arithmetic. Those who do the very lowest jobs do not need even that."

Who decides which person gets the joy of not learning to read and write? And please don't invoke any ghost invisible hands.

Let's say I'm in the low rung of your class structure. I'm the guy who cleans the toilets. In your world an education costs money. Y'know, it's a market. So I want my kid to have a better life. But how am I gonna even know what that means? I can't read. I don't make much money. My kid will end up a toilet cleaner too. Even if he's brilliant.

Meanwhile the kid of the CEO (an idiot) gets to go to Harvard or someplace like that. Cause he's got the money.

No thanks. Public education, or we sink. I've got my checkbook out ready to write the check for your kids to go. What about you?
Amber

Mount Washington, KY

#128434 Apr 16, 2014
I cant even pay for food or cable internet or my car or any more clothes. But man would drag me down to his level if God wasn't a good God and Yeshua wasnt my Perfect Savior and the Holy Spirit wasn't a Holy Angel Spirit and i am as now i am thankful for who i am.
Amber

Mount Washington, KY

#128435 Apr 16, 2014
I really don't care about those things but I feel no one should suffer and if there is a way to get help then I pray I have it and if there is a way to help others I will bless those who I can and if there is a way to have peace in all I will do good to whom i am able and if there is a way love others even those good and bad to me I will do it in grace.

But if I don't get help and die like all the other Apostles after mans hate so be it, everyone dies but does everyone die for a reason to see good? I do, I have already given my life up for the Gospel and Christ's sake.

I have tried all my life to do what I can and still am doing what I can but if it is up to one person to change me it is going to be Yeshua leading me to God who with the Holy Spirit and my i am in me thats my Spirit to worship God in Spirit and Truth and in Yeshua - Jesus fellowship and the Holy Spirit to honor him and not man who has done nothing but hurt me because man / woman has not had mercy on me or loved me like God, Yeshua, the Holy Spirit or my Spirit with in me of God. I will always depend I pray on my Spirit in me to love with the Holy Spirit to then have had loved with Yeshua and then have had loved with God the great i am even with my afflictions, but I guess i am not rich enough not to suffer, i guess i am not pretty enough to be rich, i guess i am not smart enough to be pretty, i guess i am not whatever the world sees on the outer cup to be whatever the world makes up for this.

I am glad I don't have my clothing that I acquired over the years here in this place of affliction, i am glad I don't have hope to do well for man in this city because of their hate (Yeshua said if they hated me they will hate you) I am glad I don't have money for food or anyway to get food from a food pantry and will fast and starve, I am glad I will lose my car that sin has bought me but I have been forgiven. to keep paying mans ideas of keep paying. I told the cable company I would not pay any more and want a suspension so i am not obligated to pay when I can't and they said I could get a promise to pay but now they said Hold off on getting promise to pay on the 25th and it will apply to may bill, then I can get it disconnected on May and after that i am able to leave it off for several months once it is brought up to current.
Amber

Mount Washington, KY

#128436 Apr 16, 2014
The lady was nice and the information she provided was helpful, I may have complained but in such a way hopefully that she will know i am trying. I told her that An Angel Gabriel came and told me many years ago something like "many people would die" and then I suffered this knowledge for some time and then lately I was told from him "tell her it is finished" well I know it had to do with Aids (what man calls it) because I called upon an angel and sought help when I had been led astray by a wolf in sheepÂ’s clothing then I had gotten the help when I heard a Holy Horn of Israel sound while being sodomized raped by that man there after I turned to look to my right knowing at least what was being done to me was not right because my memories were wiped out from when I had been a child by mans medicine and then I saw a man sitting like in the Spirit of Melchizedek and I would that I scream for help but there wasn't any then I went to the bathroom and then an Angel came and spoke to me and I felt like reaching out again and found a way to get mad at those who needed bible pages to confirm what it said in there to what happened to me and made fun of their many pages of law that they must have processed through to keep from bringing this heinous thing to light but God sent the Angel and Jesus - Yeshua directed the Angel and the Holy Spirit helped me with the Angel and my Spirit in me accepted the Angels decree, this is some of what I told the cable rep and like I tried to explain to my two elementary school friends what had happened, it was difficult for their understanding and my speech.

I had then gotten some concern back and she said much and would pray for me which was nice too, I blessed her and was thankful that someone heard me speak of it since there must have been something being as though the hour of temptation people are repenting left and right that I had to do and I repented too of my causic hate for the ones who abused me in my life and my feelings for those who are on their side and not seeing my side but like Yeshua said they are enemies for the gospel but not the election. Oh well at least i am glad it is out of my thoughts and things concerning me will end just like they will for Yeshua.

So happy a day when all will not concern us and we don't have a care or a worry with God, so great is his love and mercy and peace and grace unwarranted and love and mercy of Christ for us with peace and grace as we know with the Holy Spirit having mercy and love and peace and grace in charity to all through me and my Spirit that works to love not hate like this world would have it and those who are of the devil try to bring us who love into their hate filled rally against their leader and themselves.

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