Bible study rules for public schools ...

Bible study rules for public schools proposed

There are 159439 comments on the The Courier-Journal story from Feb 10, 2010, titled Bible study rules for public schools proposed. In it, The Courier-Journal reports that:

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Courier-Journal.

spaceship

Rancho Cordova, CA

#128026 Apr 9, 2014
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't you mean "attempting to reason with" instead of "debating with"?
If someone wants to debate whether Fords are better than Chevys, there are rational and valid points on both sides, There can be religious discussion, but there simply is no such thing as a reasonable "religious debate." It's an oxymoron.
That's a nice way of putting and don't disagree. That is often how it is labeled example "Bill Nye and Ken Ham" as example, and does require a referee, our only referee would be the administrator, and I do see your point.

“Hats Off to God”

Since: Jun 09

3rd Rock

#128027 Apr 9, 2014
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
The plant doesn't have to know anything. The plant makes fruit (seeds). Due to mutations, there will be variations among the fruit. The variations with attributes that improve survival will live on. The others will die.
<quoted text>
Demonstrably false. The evidence for evolution is overwhelming.
<quoted text>
Your entire argument is BASED on being ignorant. If you said cars must run on magic because you don't know how a combustion engine works, we'd have the same response. If you said rain must come from the sky gods because you don't know about the water cycle, we'd have the same response.
At what point did the plant realize that a particular mutation worked and stopped changing it's seed design? Even if plant mutation is a continuing thing then why haven't I seen any Maple seeds that don't have the little airplane wing attached? According to your explanation, by now Maple seeds should look like a stealth bomber dropping multiple seeds across the land.

I agree that evidence for evolution exists but I believe the intelligent designer set it all in motion and used it to his advantage.

So are you saying that understanding the complexities of plant design and propagation is as simple as understanding the combustible engine?

When you get through comparing apples to oranges let me know.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#128028 Apr 9, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Where do you live? I am not surrounded by the same examples that you experience. I cannot relate.
Can you clarify your question? Are you asking about the differences between Christians and Jews? Or are you asking about the LDS church and the priesthood authority and Jews?
So the main question I have been asking, you have no idea what I am talking about?
You made some claim that the OT has rules for Jews because they could not live by the priesthood. So the question is, what is so hard about the priesthood that Jews could not live by?
I have asked this question in a variety of ways, yet for some reason, you just do not see it.
I think all humans have basically the same potential. Your statement implies the Jews did not have the potential of later peoples. So this implies they are lesser humans. This is why I said your stance is anti Semitic. It is the sort of idealism that lead to the holocaust.
spaceship

Rancho Cordova, CA

#128029 Apr 9, 2014
Lehi wrote:
<quoted text>

Now go ahead and make fun of my lack of education, not much else you can do.
What do you think about BYU Biology Professor Steven Peck endorsing evolution as fact?
Do you he was just stating his opinions like Joesph Smith and BY? Maybe because his study of evidence convince him that it is a fact? Do you think he has harmed your church by doing so?

“Hats Off to God”

Since: Jun 09

3rd Rock

#128030 Apr 9, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>You keep telling me faith without evidence is so important, well I showed how it can lead to evil yet the faithful felt it was good. And the faithful felt it was good because of blind faith in a holy book. The religious seem to have a problem discerning what is right or wrong if their holy book says something on it.
The hijackers did not question the holy books moral reasoning, just as most Christians do not question their holy books moral reasoning. This is all due to faith. So I am showing how faith is not a virtue. You have yet to show why it is a virtue demanded by your god. Example, why would it be bad to have evidence of the afterlife you speak of? You would still be left with the hope of earning it. So I see nothing lost. In fact, if evidence were shown, more would strive to earn this heaven. But the block seems to be the lack of evidence.
Seeing evidence of rewards is good.
I believe that all humans have a conscience that lets them know what is right and what is wrong. I agree that some people can be indoctrinated by those around them who have influence over them but anyone should know that it is wrong to take another's life.

You can make a blanket statement all day that faith is the culprit but I think you know better than that. You just don't have much ammunition for your argument.

The evidence I have of the "after life" doesn't and cannot come from something I can see or hold in my hand. It comes from something not of this world. I don't expect you to understand that but if you are ever in a place in your life where you feel there is no hope, put it to the test as I did. All you have to do is sincerely,(with maximum emphasis on "sincerely"), call out to God, I know He will answer you in your hour of need. Then and only then will you know because there is nothing, nor should there be, that I could say to prove it to you.

I know God exists and I am so thankful that I don't have to convince anyone else of that fact in order for me to know it.

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#128031 Apr 9, 2014
Lehi wrote:
<quoted text>
At what point did the plant realize that a particular mutation worked and stopped changing it's seed design?
It doesn't. An efficient seed design will be successful and continue on.
Lehi wrote:
Even if plant mutation is a continuing thing then why haven't I seen any Maple seeds that don't have the little airplane wing attached?
The maple already has a successful seed. Why would you expect to see something significantly different? Surely not ever maple seed casing you've seen has been exactly identical.
Lehi wrote:
According to your explanation, by now Maple seeds should look like a stealth bomber dropping multiple seeds across the land.
Uh, how?
Lehi wrote:
So are you saying that understanding the complexities of plant design and propagation is as simple as understanding the combustible engine?
Understanding basic natural selection is as easy as understanding combustion engines. It's taught to elementary school children.
Lehi wrote:
When you get through comparing apples to oranges let me know.
I'm not comparing apples to oranges. I'm pointing out that your argument is one from ignorance.
curious

Winter Garden, FL

#128032 Apr 9, 2014
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
Mutation plus natural selection.
<quoted text>
Nothing more amusing than someone being cocky about their own ignorance.
When I throw a ball, it goes down to the ground. How does the ball KNOW to go back to the ground? Is it smart? Scientists tell us about this fancy INVISIBLE "gravity" nonsense. We all know that Jesus sends angels to bring the balls back down to the ground so we don't lose them.
<quoted text>
There's nothing ridiculous about the solution unless your science comprehension level is at a kindergarten level.
Then we are getting back to origins, that is where you are stuck with an ' We don't know"
as your foundation ,which you build on with science fiction,,,,
Mutation plus natural selection does not explain the origins of seeds nor how their genes were able to attain the abilities that you say they have.
Your analogy of using a ball ,dead matter , to try to validate your invalid point, clearly show signs of desperation.The best that can be said for that analogy is that you never bring it up again
Let us not forget that if you plant a ball in the ground , other than having dug a hole and covered the ball up , nothing much happens....I'm wrong , the material that the ball is made from will eventualyy decompose. Most assuredly , when a ball sees somebody coming with a baseball bat, it is not instructed by it's GENES to fly away before it gets whacked...LOL

“Hats Off to God”

Since: Jun 09

3rd Rock

#128033 Apr 9, 2014
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
It doesn't. An efficient seed design will be successful and continue on.
<quoted text>
The maple already has a successful seed. Why would you expect to see something significantly different? Surely not ever maple seed casing you've seen has been exactly identical.
<quoted text>
Uh, how?
<quoted text>
Understanding basic natural selection is as easy as understanding combustion engines. It's taught to elementary school children.
<quoted text>
I'm not comparing apples to oranges. I'm pointing out that your argument is one from ignorance.
Since you failed to answer any of my questions with any substance, your ignorance is as great as mine.

Actually your argument is that the Maple seed evolves through mutation, my question is, do those mutations continue today and if so, why don't we see new designs and if not, then how did the tree know when to stop because success in design was achieved?

Hope that's a little simpler for you.

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#128034 Apr 9, 2014
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Then we are getting back to origins, that is where you are stuck with an ' We don't know"
as your foundation ,which you build on with science fiction
We're not talking about origins. Why are you trying to change the subject? Because your knowledge of evolution is so embarrassingly poor?
curious wrote:
Mutation plus natural selection does not explain the origins of seeds nor how their genes were able to attain the abilities that you say they have.
Yes, it does. Quite easily.
curious wrote:
Your analogy of using a ball ,dead matter , to try to validate your invalid point, clearly show signs of desperation.
I forgot that you are incapable of understanding analogies. I apologize for the headache it must have given you.
curious wrote:
Let us not forget that if you plant a ball in the ground , other than having dug a hole and covered the ball up , nothing much happens....I'm wrong , the material that the ball is made from will eventualyy decompose. Most assuredly , when a ball sees somebody coming with a baseball bat, it is not instructed by it's GENES to fly away before it gets L
Balls are not living organisms that reproduce with modification. Trees are.
curious

Winter Garden, FL

#128035 Apr 9, 2014
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
Sarcasm is not the solution, it is your only defense.
The Bible is not the solution, it is just your comfort.
Evolution is not the solution, it is the mechanism.
When ignorance, the absurd and science fiction are clearly on display, a sarcastic wit needs to draw attention to the problem.
God is my comfort and foundation, the bible simply gives me instructions on how to reach him.
Evolution is a mechanism that can Not explain why there is something instead of nothing.
can not explain the origins or what caused creation ,,OR seeds
Evolution DOES NOT KNOW... And it is on that nonsensical foundation that you heap science fiction on,hoping to make it credible , all because you have no other choice on the matter.
It is absurd,illogical and incomprehensible for one to claim not to know , while on the other hand claiming to know it was not GOD.

BTW Glad to see you backed off on ignoring me,as did witchetty...

If you are ever in England,drop by the Nottingham city asylum and visit Krak tu ,
OHHHHHHHHHH , I forgot , he had his locations mixed up.
He be living in Kentucky all along.....As you know, Pre K is a twit LOL

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#128036 Apr 9, 2014
Lehi wrote:
<quoted text>
Since you failed to answer any of my questions with any substance, your ignorance is as great as mine.
I directly answered your questions. Now you're just being dismissive.
Lehi wrote:
Actually your argument is that the Maple seed evolves through mutation, my question is, do those mutations continue today and if so, why don't we see new designs and if not, then how did the tree know when to stop because success in design was achieved?
Hope that's a little simpler for you.
Mutations continue, yes. The propagation of mutations is dependent on selection. Once a highly successful trait has been evolved, like the maple "wings", it will persist. There may be no advantage to the "wing" being a slightly different shape or length at this point.

“Hats Off to God”

Since: Jun 09

3rd Rock

#128037 Apr 9, 2014
Last time I argued this sort of thing, I used the example of how the honey bee pollinates a flower and the fact that without this taking place, we would go hungry. I asked how the flower knew what smell and color it needed to attract the bee. The answer I got was that the bee and flower "blundered into cooperation". I still get a chuckle out of that.

It just amazes me that some people think it's easier to believe it all happened on it own rather than by intelligent design. I think I have finally figured it out, belief in intelligent design requires intelligence, belief in everything from nothing fits easier into the thinking of the simple mind.

Once there was nothing and then it blew up and here we are, amazing.

Since: Apr 08

Cambridge, UK

#128038 Apr 9, 2014
aWitchintheWoods wrote:
<quoted text>
Well said!
In fact, better than "well."
I would say PERFECT!
There are many reasons not to believe in "gods," especially Yahweh of the bible, but the reason you just stated is possibly the best.
Thanks!

If you think about it, the Bible god must have known about the Golden Rule and how it is our highest measures of good, ethical behaviour. After all, what can any church, mosque, synagogue, temple, etc, teach us that is more important than the Golden Rule? Yet the Bible god chose to ignore it.

The bible depicts a god who wants his followers to kill others for various different reasons, including but not limited to:

Exterminating the Canaanites and other tribes.
Killing people simply because they exercised freedom of religion.
Killing homosexuals because the Bible god doesn't like them.

At this point it may be useful to bear in mind that during the time the Bible god was ignoring the Golden Rule, other belief systems (Hinduism, Jainism) were advocating its use.
curious

Winter Garden, FL

#128039 Apr 9, 2014
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
We're not talking about origins. Why are you trying to change the subject? Because your knowledge of evolution is so embarrassingly poor?
<quoted text>
Yes, it does. Quite easily.
<quoted text>
I forgot that you are incapable of understanding analogies. I apologize for the headache it must have given you.
<quoted text>
Balls are not living organisms that reproduce with modification. Trees are.
NAhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhh, What I am trying to find out is how these genes contained iin seeds developed these abilities that you are attributing to them. From whence did they originate? That is where you are stuck in reverse while travelling uphill and getting nowhere fast.
Since balls are not living organnisms , why did you bring up that absurd analogy which had nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Your analogies seem to have the same effect on me as the Cross has on Atheists.
You give me a headache, depression, dyspepsia and mental anguish.
I am going to take a page from American Atheists org. and file a lawsuit against Topix and see if I can have you banned..........Permanently... ......LOL
curious

Winter Garden, FL

#128040 Apr 9, 2014
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks!
If you think about it, the Bible god must have known about the Golden Rule and how it is our highest measures of good, ethical behaviour. After all, what can any church, mosque, synagogue, temple, etc, teach us that is more important than the Golden Rule? Yet the Bible god chose to ignore it.
The bible depicts a god who wants his followers to kill others for various different reasons, including but not limited to:
Exterminating the Canaanites and other tribes.
Killing people simply because they exercised freedom of religion.
Killing homosexuals because the Bible god doesn't like them.
At this point it may be useful to bear in mind that during the time the Bible god was ignoring the Golden Rule, other belief systems (Hinduism, Jainism) were advocating its use.
Hey PreK , How is the weather in kentucky today?
I see that you and Wichettys atheism has your mind in total disarray.
If you do not truly believe in God , why are you making such erronoeus and absurd accusations against him?
Perhaps you need mental counselling?
Might I suggest that you get hold of David Seville and the chipmunks . They may give you the name of a witch doctor who may be able to set you nad witchetty mentally straight.
The witch doctor will tell you what to say , the witch doctor will tell you what to do
OOOOH eee ooooh aaah aah ,ooogh eeee ooo aaa aaaa ting tang wally wally bang bang
ting tang wally wally bang bang.
You should know it by heart . It is the city national anthem for Nottingham.
Composed by Robin Hood ,while hiding in Sherwood forrest.......
Dog Boy and proud

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#128041 Apr 9, 2014
Lehi wrote:
I asked how the flower knew what smell and color it needed to attract the bee.
What's so confusing? Better smelling and looking flowers are going to attract bees. Those flowers are then going to be pollinated.
Lehi wrote:
It just amazes me that some people think it's easier to believe it all happened on it own rather than by intelligent design.
It amazes you that people follow scientific evidence rather than belief in religious myths?
Lehi wrote:
I think I have finally figured it out, belief in intelligent design requires intelligence, belief in everything from nothing fits easier into the thinking of the simple mind.
lol, religious belief requires no intelligence - just blind adherence. Faith is the ultimate form of laziness. While people who support science go out in search of answers, people who support faith simply make them up.

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#128042 Apr 9, 2014
curious wrote:
What I am trying to find out is how these genes contained iin seeds developed these abilities that you are attributing to them.
Developed what abilities? Please be more specific.
curious wrote:
Since balls are not living organnisms , why did you bring up that absurd analogy which had nothing to do with the topic at hand.
To mock your rejection of evidence in favor of blind faith.
curious wrote:
You give me a headache, depression, dyspepsia and mental anguish.
Probably because I ask you to actually use your brain. It has atrophied.

“Hats Off to God”

Since: Jun 09

3rd Rock

#128043 Apr 9, 2014
The_Box wrote:
< There may be no advantage to the "wing" being a slightly different shape or length at this point.
So why did the tree stop changing it's seed design? How did it know the task was accomplished?

“Hats Off to God”

Since: Jun 09

3rd Rock

#128044 Apr 9, 2014
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
What's so confusing? Better smelling and looking flowers are going to attract bees. Those flowers are then going to be pollinated.
<quoted text>
It amazes you that people follow scientific evidence rather than belief in religious myths?
<quoted text>
lol, religious belief requires no intelligence - just blind adherence. Faith is the ultimate form of laziness. While people who support science go out in search of answers, people who support faith simply make them up.
Who told the bee to look for better smelling flowers? Who told the plant that if it makes a certain scent, the bees will come carry their pollen?

It's lazy to assume it all just happened, believing in intelligent design requires intelligence and much rational thought.
curious

Winter Garden, FL

#128045 Apr 9, 2014
Lehi wrote:
Last time I argued this sort of thing, I used the example of how the honey bee pollinates a flower and the fact that without this taking place, we would go hungry. I asked how the flower knew what smell and color it needed to attract the bee. The answer I got was that the bee and flower "blundered into cooperation". I still get a chuckle out of that.
It just amazes me that some people think it's easier to believe it all happened on it own rather than by intelligent design. I think I have finally figured it out, belief in intelligent design requires intelligence, belief in everything from nothing fits easier into the thinking of the simple mind.
Once there was nothing and then it blew up and here we are, amazing.
Yup , you need to be careful when you are blundering around . I used to blunder into women whenever I went out. I had more paternity lawsuits than there are flies on a manure patch.
They claimed that I had pollinated them..........LOL
And don't forget , for everything to have happened on it's own entails a nonexisting ,nonintelligent and nonconscious nonforce..........Indubidably astounding event..
Miraculous even,,,, Except we believe who the creating agent is..........

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