Bible study rules for public schools ...

Bible study rules for public schools proposed

There are 172956 comments on the The Courier-Journal story from Feb 10, 2010, titled Bible study rules for public schools proposed. In it, The Courier-Journal reports that:

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Courier-Journal.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#126965 Mar 25, 2014
waco1909 wrote:
<quoted text> C-Man, I'm glad your garden gnome isn't talking. Maybe it only talks to other gnomes? You may be too tall.
Does Yahweh only talk to other gods? God, Shiva and Kokopelli manifested into a bar. The bartender first asks Shiva what she'll have and God shouts, "Can't you read? You'll serve no gods before ME!"
Perhaps humans are too short?

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#126966 Mar 25, 2014
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
It's pretty safe to say that the universe exists. We understand small aspects of it - some of it we can even measure. Perhaps one day when we get a handle on dark matter/energy, we'll be able to measure a lot more of it.
Yet, exist it does. Maybe it's always existed. No need to invoke a creator being and add a new level of mystery.
<quoted text>
That's what the evidence would seem to indicate.
When we're dead, we're dead
We'll feel nothing, know nothing, and experience nothing. Still, with all our sensory equipment gone, we won't know the difference between a nano-second and eternity.
<quoted text>
Does that mean when you know everything (like curious) you actually know nothing?
<quoted text>
You may want to ask a physicist or chemist.
On that last one, they don't have an answer yet. One of the great physicists said "the more we know, the less we know". I have to say, that as far as your comments on death, I think maybe" when we're dead, we're dead ", is not extremely helpful to me, but certainly I'll be thinking about that for awhile.:)

Since: Apr 08

Cambridge, UK

#126967 Mar 25, 2014
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe that the Earth is far older than the human species and that the universe is far older than the Earth. Man's understanding through science may not have gotten everything 100% correct or ever will, but it is a work in progress. Observation supports the vast bulk of scientific deductions far better than lore does. I do not place any faith in any primitive notion that we live in any god's fish bowl.
The beginning of the universe "predates" time, and therefore "predates" causality. "Created" and "began" are both therefore inapplicable terms, but we are forced by our hardwired concept of time to incorporate them.
Not my words but they do say it well,,,

"Suppose you have a length of wood and you want to measure it. First, you use a yard stick with markings only on the feet, and find that the wood is 7 feet long. Then you decide to use a better ruler and find the wood is 7 feet 2 inches long. Then you decide to use a better one and find it is 7 feet 2 1/4 inches long. You can never reach the truth (the exact size) because you don't have a prefect measuring device, but are all the measurements *false*? No, they are better and better approximations to the truth.

This is how science works: you figure things out at one level of accuracy and see how far you can understand things there. Then, after you get better instruments and better techniques, you look again and see if what you previously did works at the new level of accuracy. Sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't. If it doesn't, you have to modify your ideas, but the lower level of accuracy still works! So rather than being completely wrong, the older scientific ideas are actually just good approximations and have been refined by new abilities.
This has happened multiple times in science. Newtonian physics gives a very good description of how planets move, how buildings stand, and many phenomena at the ordinary level of human existence. But, as we probed deeper, we found that it doesn't work for very small things (like atoms and smaller) or very fast things (close to the speed of light) or very strong gravitational fields (like around black holes). So, it had to be refined to account for these new observations. This lead to relativity and quantum mechanics. Did this make Newton's theories *false*? In one sense, yes, but in a practical sense not. We still use Newtonian physics to send probes to the moon, to design cars, etc, because it is an extremely good *approximation*.

This is the strength of science: it can adjust to new and more refined observations while preserving the work previously done. We can realize that we *never* have the exact truth, but can find better and better approximations as we study more.

Religion, on the other hand, claims an absolute truth at the beginning. It either ignores new evidence, or modifies its beliefs (silently!) while claiming nothing has changed. By refusing to acknowledge ignorance and adapt to new information, it becomes dogmatic and dangerous.

By insisting that all those who believe other things are evil, it, itself, becomes evil. By claiming certain knowledge, it gives up on the path of wisdom all together."

Anon

Since: Apr 08

Cambridge, UK

#126968 Mar 25, 2014
Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>If you think God will let man do this...
he better do it soon....
To no avail will this happen, as the return of the Lord is SOON!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =VK8NKXDinlEXX
When the author of Revelations said that Jesus was coming "soon" he really meant "soon". Not, more than two thousand years later.

REV 22:20

Futhermore, no less a person than Paul foretold that the end would come in his lifetime and that he'd be one of those who fly up to heaven.

1 Thess. 4:15-17

Check out the first words of Jesus in the oldest surviving gospel. Very near is not over two thousand years.

Mark 1:15

Luke tells us that "Even now the axe is lying at the root of the trees". What he failed to mention is that two thousand years later it will still be lying there because his god has failed to pick it up. Of course, Luke wasn't thinking that his god would take that long. eh?

Luke 3: 7-9

Since: Apr 08

Cambridge, UK

#126969 Mar 25, 2014
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
I find it increasingly tiresome to hear rabid theists claim to "know" much of anything at all, then ridicule and criticize others' >honest< appraisals.
Absolutely - what do they know about honesty as they regularly lie for Jesus?

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#126970 Mar 25, 2014
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
Does Yahweh only talk to other gods? God, Shiva and Kokopelli manifested into a bar. The bartender first asks Shiva what she'll have and God shouts, "Can't you read? You'll serve no gods before ME!"
Perhaps humans are too short?
I don't know who Kokopelli is, I only Shiva when I'm cold, and perhaps humans are too short, compared to a giraffe.

Since: Apr 08

Cambridge, UK

#126971 Mar 25, 2014
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
Reminds me of an incident in the 70's. There was a Bible quoting contest in Alabama where the loser shot the winner.
I'm sorry a guy got shot but that's pretty funny.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#126972 Mar 25, 2014
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
Not my words but they do say it well,,,
"Suppose you have a length of wood and you want to measure it. First, you use a yard stick with markings only on the feet, and find that the wood is 7 feet long. Then you decide to use a better ruler and find the wood is 7 feet 2 inches long. Then you decide to use a better one and find it is 7 feet 2 1/4 inches long. You can never reach the truth (the exact size) because you don't have a prefect measuring device, but are all the measurements *false*? No, they are better and better approximations to the truth.
This is how science works: you figure things out at one level of accuracy and see how far you can understand things there. Then, after you get better instruments and better techniques, you look again and see if what you previously did works at the new level of accuracy. Sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't. If it doesn't, you have to modify your ideas, but the lower level of accuracy still works! So rather than being completely wrong, the older scientific ideas are actually just good approximations and have been refined by new abilities.
This has happened multiple times in science. Newtonian physics gives a very good description of how planets move, how buildings stand, and many phenomena at the ordinary level of human existence. But, as we probed deeper, we found that it doesn't work for very small things (like atoms and smaller) or very fast things (close to the speed of light) or very strong gravitational fields (like around black holes). So, it had to be refined to account for these new observations. This lead to relativity and quantum mechanics. Did this make Newton's theories *false*? In one sense, yes, but in a practical sense not. We still use Newtonian physics to send probes to the moon, to design cars, etc, because it is an extremely good *approximation*.
This is the strength of science: it can adjust to new and more refined observations while preserving the work previously done. We can realize that we *never* have the exact truth, but can find better and better approximations as we study more.
Religion, on the other hand, claims an absolute truth at the beginning. It either ignores new evidence, or modifies its beliefs (silently!) while claiming nothing has changed. By refusing to acknowledge ignorance and adapt to new information, it becomes dogmatic and dangerous.
By insisting that all those who believe other things are evil, it, itself, becomes evil. By claiming certain knowledge, it gives up on the path of wisdom all together."
Anon
A Book says that a piece of wood is 3 cubits long, so you get a ruler and find that it is 54 inches long. Then you get a better ruler and find that it is 51 inches long. Then you get a better ruler and find that it is 63 inches long. Then you go back to the Book and find out that it is indeed EXACTLY 3 cubits long....

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#126973 Mar 25, 2014
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus did at least two of those - quite probably three
That makes him a sinner.
Which two? When?

Since: Apr 08

Cambridge, UK

#126974 Mar 25, 2014
Waco 1909 wrote:
<quoted text> Excellent points, you have a sharp mind, I'm probably out of my depth here, but I believe talking with people who are smarter than me only helps me get a bit smarter, as well. You mentioned "observation". You are of course aware that simply observing some things, changes the thing being observed, thus invalidating the observation? As you doubtless know, I'm referring to certain subatomic particles, but I wonder if that applies to more things than we realize.
The subatomic world behaves in ways we can barely imagine and the laws of physics we know certainly don't apply at that minuscule level.

Given that our best theory for the origin of our universe is that it started out as an infinitesimally small singularity, it's safe to say the laws of physics didn't apply there either.

Which means that effects don't require causes.

In other words...our universe may have always existed.

Since: Apr 08

Cambridge, UK

#126975 Mar 25, 2014
waco1909 wrote:
<quoted text> Why would two eyewitnesses to an event, have differing opinions as to what happened?
You'd be surprised.

Ask any policeman who takes witness statements and he'll tell you that people who saw the same thing will often get it wrong.

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#126976 Mar 25, 2014
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
Absolutely - what do they know about honesty as they regularly lie for Jesus?
This is a hot topic, on Topix. I think that Christianity is headed for rough waters, before this is all over. I don't know about the Muslims, they intimidate a lot of people into silence, I don't know if they will experience any dissension where they are popular. As for me, I'm not going to criticize you for your statements, I can see that the "you're gonna burn in hell" people have colored your comments with their incessant slogans. I am a believer, no matter that my "evidence" is lacking, to many. I can't deny what I am, but I see your points, certainly I'm not sharp enough to defend Christianity against a lot of your points, and yet here I am, mainly to hear.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#126978 Mar 25, 2014
Waco 1909 wrote:
As far as I know, people are the only animals that know they are going to die. Maybe that creates a kind of insanity in the human mind. I observe the effects of entropy on my own body with a kind of detached bemusement. Sometimes I think the whole concept of "time" is a lie, and there is a deeper truth to it, that lies just beyond our grasp.
Atheists know man dies, believers in gods do not know this. So in a sense, they are like wild animals. They run from danger and deadly things on instinct, but fail to understand what happens to the brain when it ceases to function.

Since: Apr 08

Cambridge, UK

#126979 Mar 25, 2014
waco1909 wrote:
<quoted text> Which two? When?
Didn't Jesus instruct his followers to steal a donkey?

"Saying unto them, Go into the village over against you, and straightway ye shall find an ass tied, and a colt with her: loose them, and bring them unto me.

And if any man say ought unto you, ye shall say, The Lord hath need of them; and straightway he will send them."

Matthew 21:2-3

He also stole corn

"And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn."

Mark 2:23

==========

"But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come."

Matthew 10:23

"Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

Matthew 16:28

Despite Jesus' utterances above - he never came back.

That makes it a lie.

Since: Apr 08

Cambridge, UK

#126980 Mar 25, 2014
waco1909 wrote:
<quoted text> This is a hot topic, on Topix. I think that Christianity is headed for rough waters, before this is all over. I don't know about the Muslims, they intimidate a lot of people into silence, I don't know if they will experience any dissension where they are popular. As for me, I'm not going to criticize you for your statements, I can see that the "you're gonna burn in hell" people have colored your comments with their incessant slogans. I am a believer, no matter that my "evidence" is lacking, to many. I can't deny what I am, but I see your points, certainly I'm not sharp enough to defend Christianity against a lot of your points, and yet here I am, mainly to hear.
Fair enough, although Islam has had it's schism.

Kind of like the Protestants and the Catholics, Islam has it's big split between the Sunnis and the Shiah's.

Except that unlike the Catholics and Protestants who killed each other in huge numbers in the Thirty Years War, the two main sects in Islam are yet to go to war with each other.war.

Re: Your beliefs

You're as entitled to them as I am to my non-belief.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#126981 Mar 25, 2014
waco1909 wrote:
<quoted text> This is a hot topic, on Topix. I think that Christianity is headed for rough waters, before this is all over. I don't know about the Muslims, they intimidate a lot of people into silence, I don't know if they will experience any dissension where they are popular. As for me, I'm not going to criticize you for your statements, I can see that the "you're gonna burn in hell" people have colored your comments with their incessant slogans. I am a believer, no matter that my "evidence" is lacking, to many. I can't deny what I am, but I see your points, certainly I'm not sharp enough to defend Christianity against a lot of your points, and yet here I am, mainly to hear.
The PC nature of what our society has become insists we not discuss religion as we do. I feel this comes from the religious side and their lack of force/power/law to silence our voice.
Islam still has the power of force/law to silence our side in their parts.
spaceship

Rancho Cordova, CA

#126982 Mar 25, 2014
Waco 1909 wrote:
<quoted text> Ha, I'm no more confused than normal. You may take my answer any way you wish. This is the beginning of understanding!
Religion is dumbo jumbo that tries to beat unbelievers with a scary stick. It is full of mythical tells of magic, gods and demons. It's a powerful brainwashing tool that many will die and kill others to keep its beliefs spreading. Hitler was a christian and so was Dracula.

Science will open doors that will make religious people rethink the idea of a god. Religion will move the goal post and excuse scientific advancement and say "god did it instead".

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#126983 Mar 25, 2014
Waco 1909 wrote:
<quoted text> Slight misunderstanding. Humans are aware of their own mortality, even when not threatened. My dog is pretty convinced of her immortality.
So your dog never shows fear?

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#126984 Mar 25, 2014
Waco 1909 wrote:
<quoted text> Brilliant observation, that. I was wondering if the human brain has developed to a point where insanity is a natural byproduct. When does increased self-awareness reach a point of diminished return? The mind that can conceive of the theory of relativity still has the same primitive emotional foundation as it did thousands of years ago.
Our primitive emotions are still here and not going anywhere anytime soon.
I would say self delusion is a thing that can cause diminishing returns, but at the same time, it can help keep us sane.
Everyone has a bit of self delusion, some more than others.

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#126985 Mar 25, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>So your dog never shows fear?
Mike, I almost feel down some icy stairs yesterday. I experienced "fear". Of being hurt, not of dying.(I've broken almost every bone in my body). Do animals know that are all going to die? Does it depend on the animal? People find out, pretty quick, that they are going to die. That's my only point.

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