Bible study rules for public schools proposed

There are 20 comments on the Feb 10, 2010, The Courier-Journal story titled Bible study rules for public schools proposed. In it, The Courier-Journal reports that:

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Courier-Journal.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#118494 Dec 8, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Just goes to prove that when someone is incoherent,attempts to mislead and you have known them for just 8 weeks , it can seem like an eternity.
.......
So you finally admit, your perceptions could have flaws.
Now apply that to your perceptions of god.
defender

Duluth, GA

#118495 Dec 8, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>We address it all the time. Open your eyes, and take the blinders off. Oh, and stop spreading lies.
And agreeing to all of Curious' post just shows how you are on the groupthink train.
What lies?... I'm not the one claiming life arose from natural process and random chaos... Or that this whole universe was created in one giant bang from nothing ... Or that whales evolved from dogs... Or that any one kind of spices has ever morphed into something new... Nah I leave the BS to you guys thanks...

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#118496 Dec 8, 2013
defender wrote:
The genocide and killing of the OT?...
Atheist who don't believe in God sure like to blame him for everything....
You got one bit right.

I don't believe in your god. Don't worry though, I'm all for fair treatment - I don't believe in any of the other gods either.
defender wrote:
Man made God the enemy not the other way around.. Get your facts in order...
Facts? When it comes to what's written in the Bible there are very little facts, other than it's myth and fables that are based on other peoples myths and fables.
defender wrote:
The homosexuals should thank their lucky stars for Jesus (as should we all)...
Homosexuals should be grateful for Jesus? Well, I've heard a few whispers about Jesus being gay and that. I guess you go by the secret Gospel of Mark, too.
defender wrote:
You look at the OT with modern American eyes but a little study and research you would find life was much different in ancient times...
American eyes? Nope.

Modern? Yes.

You're right about life in ancient times being different. We're fart more tolerant, knowledgeable and a whole lot less superstitious than ancient people.

Here's a thought:

A primitive and barbaric people produce tales of a primitive and barbaric god who wants his followers to follow a primitive and barbaric justice system. Which, co-incidentally, is the only kind of justice these people know.

You eschew the above in favour of a perfect and omniscient entity like the god of the bible (who we hear is positively overflowing with love for his people) creating a primitive and barbaric justice system and expects his creation to enact it.
defender wrote:
Yeah God is very strict and he doesn't care what you think is fair...
That's why our secular society and laws are far better than anything the bible god has come up with.
defender wrote:
We all fail Christians are no better than anyone else... If not for Jesus man would not have made it...
You're right about Christians being no better than anyone else.

I don't get what you're saying about Jesus - made what?

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#118497 Dec 8, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Man made it for tens of thousands of years without Jesus, and many do still today.
And god is not the enemy, but the followers of gods often are, when their agenda includes immoral acts in the name of said god.
Man made the gods.
"Let’s say that the consensus is that our species, being the higher primates, Homo Sapiens, has been on the planet for at least 100,000 years, maybe more. Francis Collins says maybe 100,000. Richard Dawkins thinks maybe a quarter-of-a-million. I’ll take 100,000.

In order to be a Christian, you have to believe that for 98,000 years, our species suffered and died, most of its children dying in childbirth, most other people having a life expectancy of about 25 years, dying of their teeth.

Famine, struggle, bitterness, war, suffering, misery, all of that for 98,000 years.

Heaven watches this with complete indifference. And then 2,000 years ago, thinks “That’s enough of that. It’s time to intervene,” and the best way to do this would be by condemning someone to a human sacrifice somewhere in the less literate parts of the Middle East.

Don’t let’s appeal to the Chinese, for example, where people can read and study evidence and have a civilization. Let’s go to the desert and have another revelation there.

This is nonsense. It can’t be believed by a thinking person."

~Christopher Hitchens~

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#118498 Dec 8, 2013
Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>No.. you Dumb azz!
The PIONT is... WE are ALL Sinners!
Sinners that CAN be forgiven!
Whether you Murdered your baby in the womb because it wasn't convenient for you, or lured little boys in the shower room...
Evil is Evil, and calling it "Good" is what is harming others!
You mean like calling the killing of people for worshipping as they wish, "good", as in the case of Moses and the golden calf? Yes, it is harmful, and you do it. I do not forgive you, as you cannot even admit it is wrong.
Judge

Glasgow, KY

#118499 Dec 8, 2013
B I B L E Basic instruction before leaving earth every one needs to reed the manual!

Since: Sep 13

United States of America

#118501 Dec 8, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, you do need to explain....if you wish to have consistent standards.
And I agree, no one can explain, as you just admitted. Yet you keep insisting we explain....
And your claims show intelligence needed no intelligent creator. Your claim here shows, consciousness needed no creator.
Scientist {in a lab}-'Here are the facts, what conclusions can we draw from them.

Creationist, aka YaY, Curious {holding bible}'Here's the conclusion, what facts can we find to support it'
enough said!
duquettes uncle

Ocoee, FL

#118502 Dec 8, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Look, Curious is again using a false identity. Hypocrite.
Nice diversion.
You are as ridiculous as doorknobs on a window. You make it appear like you made an astounding discovery.
A retarded idiot would know that it was me that wrote that post.
Winter Garden Fl. and the fact I referred to your uncle are obvious clues.
But , I am sure everyone is grateful that you informed them about something they were already well aware of.
Personally ,I want to thank you for that piece of info.
Otherwise I would have never known I was the author.
Say hello to your cousin for me when you visit him at the asylum.
The nonpriest who performed the non funeral services at your nondead uncle's near death experience sends his regards. LOL
This is Curious ,over and out

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#118503 Dec 8, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>You mean like calling the killing of people for worshipping as they wish, "good", as in the case of Moses and the golden calf? Yes, it is harmful, and you do it. I do not forgive you, as you cannot even admit it is wrong.
The bible has more than its share of dumb fables. Here's one concerning Moses:

"And it came to pass by the way in the inn, that the Lord met him, and sought to kill him. Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son, and cast it at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to me. So he let him go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision."

Exodus 4:24-26

The bible god tries to kill Moses? After getting Moses to consent to appeal to Pharaoh for the release of the Israelites, God tries to kill Moses?

If God wanted Moses dead he would be dead. The cosmic mega-being who can do anything just by wishing it shouldn't have to "sought" to kill. He could just do it easier than we can blink.

If God sought to kill Moses, why did he fail? I guess there must be something more powerful than God.

Well, there is and it was Moses' wife (Zipporah) who took a sharp stone knife to her baby and mutilated his genitals.

Let's recap:

God tried to kill his own messenger but was thwarted by a wioman who cut off a piece of her son's penis.

LOL

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#118504 Dec 8, 2013
Judge wrote:
B I B L E Basic instruction before leaving earth every one needs to reed the manual!
You sound just like those Christian whackos at Heavens Gate.

You remember them? They're off on the Hale-Bopp comet now.

http://www.heavensgate.com/misc/vt092996.htm
duquettes uncle

Ocoee, FL

#118505 Dec 8, 2013
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
"Let’s say that the consensus is that our species, being the higher primates, Homo Sapiens, has been on the planet for at least 100,000 years, maybe more. Francis Collins says maybe 100,000. Richard Dawkins thinks maybe a quarter-of-a-million. I’ll take 100,000.
In order to be a Christian, you have to believe that for 98,000 years, our species suffered and died, most of its children dying in childbirth, most other people having a life expectancy of about 25 years, dying of their teeth.
Famine, struggle, bitterness, war, suffering, misery, all of that for 98,000 years.
Heaven watches this with complete indifference. And then 2,000 years ago, thinks “That’s enough of that. It’s time to intervene,” and the best way to do this would be by condemning someone to a human sacrifice somewhere in the less literate parts of the Middle East.
Don’t let’s appeal to the Chinese, for example, where people can read and study evidence and have a civilization. Let’s go to the desert and have another revelation there.
This is nonsense. It can’t be believed by a thinking person."
~Christopher Hitchens~
Christopher Hitchens,by his own admission,was an alcoholic.
He stated he did his best writing while stewed to the gills and believed his heavy drinking may have caused his cancer.
Anything written by anyone while in a drunken stupor, has to be taken with a grain of tequila
ALCOHOL’S DAMAGING EFFECTS ON THE BRAIN
Difficulty walking, blurred vision, slurred speech, slowed reaction times, impaired memory: Clearly, alcohol affects the brain.

We do know that heavy drinking may have extensive and far–reaching effects on the brain, ranging from simple “slips” in memory to permanent and debilitating conditions that require lifetime custodial care. And even moderate drinking leads to short–term impairment, as shown by extensive research on the impact of drinking on driving.

Wernicke–Korsakoff Syndrome

Up to 80 percent of alcoholics, however, have a deficiency in thiamine (15), and some of these people will go on to develop serious brain disorders such as Wernicke–Korsakoff syndrome (WKS)(16). WKS is a disease that consists of two separate syndromes, a short–lived and severe condition called Wernicke’s encephalopathy and a long–lasting and debilitating condition known as Korsakoff’s psychosis.

The symptoms of Wernicke’s encephalopathy include mental confusion, paralysis of the nerves that move the eyes (i.e., oculomotor disturbances), and difficulty with muscle coordination. For example, patients with Wernicke’s encephalopathy may be too confused to find their way out of a room or may not even be able to walk. Many Wernicke’s encephalopathy patients, however, do not exhibit all three of these signs and symptoms, and clinicians working with alcoholics must be aware that this disorder may be present even if the patient shows only one or two of them. In fact, studies performed after death indicate that many cases of thiamine deficiency–related encephalopathy may not be diagnosed in life because not all the “classic” signs and symptoms were present or recognized.

Human Brain
Regions vulnerable to alcohol

Schematic drawing of the human brain, showing regions vulnerable to alcoholism-related abnormalities.

Approximately 80 to 90 percent of alcoholics with Wernicke’s encephalopathy also develop Korsakoff’s psychosis, a chronic and debilitating syndrome characterized by persistent learning and memory problems. Patients with Korsakoff’s psychosis are forgetful and quickly frustrated and have difficulty with walking and coordination (17). Although these patients have problems remembering old information (i.e., retrograde amnesia), it is their difficulty in “laying down” new information (i.e., anterograde amnesia) that is the most striking. For example, these patients can discuss in detail an event in their lives, but an hour later might not remember ever having the conversation.

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#118506 Dec 8, 2013
duquettes uncle wrote:
<quoted text>
Christopher Hitchens,by his own admission,was an alcoholic.
He stated he did his best writing while stewed to the gills and believed his heavy drinking may have caused his cancer.
Anything written by anyone while in a drunken stupor, has to be taken with a grain of tequila
ALCOHOL’S DAMAGING EFFECTS ON THE BRAIN
Difficulty walking, blurred vision, slurred speech, slowed reaction times, impaired memory: Clearly, alcohol affects the brain.
We do know that heavy drinking may have extensive and far–reaching effects on the brain, ranging from simple “slips” in memory to permanent and debilitating conditions that require lifetime custodial care. And even moderate drinking leads to short–term impairment, as shown by extensive research on the impact of drinking on driving.
Wernicke–Korsakoff Syndrome
Up to 80 percent of alcoholics, however, have a deficiency in thiamine (15), and some of these people will go on to develop serious brain disorders such as Wernicke–Korsakoff syndrome (WKS)(16). WKS is a disease that consists of two separate syndromes, a short–lived and severe condition called Wernicke’s encephalopathy and a long–lasting and debilitating condition known as Korsakoff’s psychosis.
The symptoms of Wernicke’s encephalopathy include mental confusion, paralysis of the nerves that move the eyes (i.e., oculomotor disturbances), and difficulty with muscle coordination. For example, patients with Wernicke’s encephalopathy may be too confused to find their way out of a room or may not even be able to walk. Many Wernicke’s encephalopathy patients, however, do not exhibit all three of these signs and symptoms, and clinicians working with alcoholics must be aware that this disorder may be present even if the patient shows only one or two of them. In fact, studies performed after death indicate that many cases of thiamine deficiency–related encephalopathy may not be diagnosed in life because not all the “classic” signs and symptoms were present or recognized.
Human Brain
Regions vulnerable to alcohol
Schematic drawing of the human brain, showing regions vulnerable to alcoholism-related abnormalities.
Approximately 80 to 90 percent of alcoholics with Wernicke’s encephalopathy also develop Korsakoff’s psychosis, a chronic and debilitating syndrome characterized by persistent learning and memory problems. Patients with Korsakoff’s psychosis are forgetful and quickly frustrated and have difficulty with walking and coordination (17). Although these patients have problems remembering old information (i.e., retrograde amnesia), it is their difficulty in “laying down” new information (i.e., anterograde amnesia) that is the most striking. For example, these patients can discuss in detail an event in their lives, but an hour later might not remember ever having the conversation.
Your failure to refute Hitchen's logic is noted.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#118507 Dec 8, 2013
defender wrote:
<quoted text>
What lies?... I'm not the one claiming life arose from natural process and random chaos... Or that this whole universe was created in one giant bang from nothing ... Or that whales evolved from dogs... Or that any one kind of spices has ever morphed into something new... Nah I leave the BS to you guys thanks...
let's start with your lie about atheists being afraid to address the supposed 900 lb gorilla.
Then you lie about dogs and whale.
Now who is claiming random chaos?
Try to address our actual issues, not the ones creationist propoganda manufactures. You are repeating their lies. Perhaps in ignorance, yet they are lies none the less.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#118508 Dec 8, 2013
duquettes uncle wrote:
<quoted text>
Christopher Hitchens,by his own admission,was an alcoholic.
He stated he did his best writing while stewed to the gills and believed his heavy drinking may have caused his cancer.
Anything written by anyone while in a drunken stupor, has to be taken with a grain of tequila
ALCOHOL’S DAMAGING EFFECTS ON THE BRAIN
Difficulty walking, blurred vision, slurred speech, slowed reaction times, impaired memory: Clearly, alcohol affects the brain.
We do know that heavy drinking may have extensive and far–reaching effects on the brain, ranging from simple “slips” in memory to permanent and debilitating conditions that require lifetime custodial care. And even moderate drinking leads to short–term impairment, as shown by extensive research on the impact of drinking on driving.
Wernicke–Korsakoff Syndrome
Up to 80 percent of alcoholics, however, have a deficiency in thiamine (15), and some of these people will go on to develop serious brain disorders such as Wernicke–Korsakoff syndrome (WKS)(16). WKS is a disease that consists of two separate syndromes, a short–lived and severe condition called Wernicke’s encephalopathy and a long–lasting and debilitating condition known as Korsakoff’s psychosis.
The symptoms of Wernicke’s encephalopathy include mental confusion, paralysis of the nerves that move the eyes (i.e., oculomotor disturbances), and difficulty with muscle coordination. For example, patients with Wernicke’s encephalopathy may be too confused to find their way out of a room or may not even be able to walk. Many Wernicke’s encephalopathy patients, however, do not exhibit all three of these signs and symptoms, and clinicians working with alcoholics must be aware that this disorder may be present even if the patient shows only one or two of them. In fact, studies performed after death indicate that many cases of thiamine deficiency–related encephalopathy may not be diagnosed in life because not all the “classic” signs and symptoms were present or recognized.
Human Brain
Regions vulnerable to alcohol
Schematic drawing of the human brain, showing regions vulnerable to alcoholism-related abnormalities.
Approximately 80 to 90 percent of alcoholics with Wernicke’s encephalopathy also develop Korsakoff’s psychosis, a chronic and debilitating syndrome characterized by persistent learning and memory problems. Patients with Korsakoff’s psychosis are forgetful and quickly frustrated and have difficulty with walking and coordination (17). Although these patients have problems remembering old information (i.e., retrograde amnesia), it is their difficulty in “laying down” new information (i.e., anterograde amnesia) that is the most striking. For example, these patients can discuss in detail an event in their lives, but an hour later might not remember ever having the conversation.
So you could not even refute his statement.
Just as Hitchens said before about being able to debate your kind piss drunk.
Divert a you wish, it only makes you look like you got nothing.

“Speaker of Mountain Wisdom....”

Since: Jan 10

Somerset, KY

#118509 Dec 8, 2013
defender wrote:
<quoted text>
What lies?... I'm not the one claiming life arose from natural process and random chaos... Or that this whole universe was created in one giant bang from nothing ... Or that whales evolved from dogs... Or that any one kind of spices has ever morphed into something new... Nah I leave the BS to you guys thanks...
"Or that this whole universe was created in one giant bang from nothing ... Or that whales evolved from dogs... Or that any one kind of spices has ever morphed into something new... "

No one else has ever claimed that either....

“Speaker of Mountain Wisdom....”

Since: Jan 10

Somerset, KY

#118510 Dec 8, 2013
Judge wrote:
B I B L E Basic instruction before leaving earth every one needs to reed the manual!
I would much prefer the space crafts operating manual myself...
duquettes uncle

Ocoee, FL

#118511 Dec 8, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>So you could not even refute his statement.
Just as Hitchens said before about being able to debate your kind piss drunk.
Divert a you wish, it only makes you look like you got nothing.
By Robert Murphy Critique of C. Hitchens
I have to say I find the first half of Hitchens’ assault comically bad, the second half much better. I promised the lads I would try to respond this week,Now that we’ve read it in the full context, I’ll go through bit by bit: so here goes…
In order to be a Christian, you have to believe that for 98,000 years, our species suffered and died, most of its children dying in childbirth, most other people having a life expectancy of about 25 years, dying of their teeth. Famine, struggle, war, suffering, misery, all of that for 98,000 years. Heaven watches this with complete indifference. And then 2000 years ago, thinks “That’s enough of that. It’s time to intervene,”…

What worldview is this? It certainly isn’t Christianity. A Bible-believing Christian thinks that God from the beginning sought a personal relationship with His children. He appeared to them personally many times, and sent numerous prophets and leaders such as Moses, Joshua, and David. He rescued them from slavery and delivered them a Promised Land. He gave them an excruciatingly precise list of rules for living, accompanied by draconian punishments.(Surely today’s atheists know this; they mock the rules every other day on Facebook.) Then finally, He sent His Son who summarized the essence or Spirit of those laws in His teachings. It wouldn’t have worked to send Jesus right away, because humanity wasn’t ready for him. The Old Testament had to come before the New Testament.
Hitchens could have said,“Why God would cater to one fickle group of humans, amidst all his other alleged ‘children,’ for such a long time–even according to the timeline of the Bible–is never explained. What a sadistic God, who coddles some of his children and condemns the rest to persecution or even genocide.” That would have at least had a passing relationship to what Christians actually believe.

(But instead Hitchens thought it would be easier to mock his opponent by attributing to him a worldview that no Christian believes.)

This happens a lot. Suppose I actually were in a live debate with Paul Krugman and said,“Dr. Krugman, let me get this straight: According to you, the US government never had a responsibility to run a deficit–through wars, depressions, bank panics, etc.,–and then, in 2009, with the inauguration of The One, all of a sudden you wanted a $1.5 trillion deficit?” Now if I had said that, it wouldn’t render Keynesianism correct, but boy even my fellow Austrians would wonder what the heck I was doing.
And yet, when it comes to an atheist assault on Christianity, Hitchens can describe a worldview that has absolutely nothing to do with what his opponent believes, and his fans run around quoting it and wondering aloud how any Christian could possibly respond. Isn’t that odd?
Let’s move on:
duquettes uncle

Ocoee, FL

#118512 Dec 8, 2013
Let’s move on:

And then 2000 years ago, thinks “That’s enough of that. It’s time to intervene,” and the best way to do this would be by condemning someone to a human sacrifice somewhere in the less literate parts of the Middle East. Don’t lets appeal to the Chinese, for example, where people can read and study evidence and have a civilization. Let’s go to the desert and have another revelation there.

Here again, the more I read this particular passage, the more astounded I am. Is Hitchens now claiming that God screwed up by not getting the written word involved in His plan to spread His message? I’ll just point out that the best-selling book in human history came out of what Christians believe God did 2000 years ago.

OK, let’s not focus so much on that single word “literate.” Let’s be fair to Hitchens and distill his general point. He is saying that if God really wanted to convince people, He would have sent His Son to appear to much more credible people. After all, one of the main objections modern agnostics raise is,“How can I trust a bunch of stories written down by common folk 2000 years ago?” Here are some responses:

(1) Notice that it contradicts Hitchens’ first objection. Remember, Hitchens can’t understand why God allowed people to suffer for 98,000 years, before deciding to send Jesus. Then, a mere few sentences later, Hitchens can’t understand why God didn’t appear to people who could have credibly documented Jesus’ life and feats. So just notice that if God had satisfied Hitchens’ first objection–by appearing to Stone Age savages–then God couldn’t have satisfied Hitchens’ second objection. A lot of times these contradictory demands of what God ought to be doing are voiced by different atheists, but in this case they come from the same one, and in the same paragraph.

(2) In my “Landsburg vs. the LORD” post I tried to show how God has tapped on all sorts of mechanisms to reveal Himself to us, and the modern atheist systematically rules them all out of bounds. For example, here’s somethingthat should be right up Hitchens’ alley: An alleged miracle occurring in the 20th century, with thousands of eyewitnesses, and even reporters (who could read and write!) present. Now does the modern atheist go and investigate these claims carefully, to see if there is a God after all? No, of course not. He knows that is obvious balderdash.

(3) There are plenty of “faith healings” reported all the time, today, in societies where people can read, write, and perform experiments to detect subatomic particles. Do today’s atheists spend a lot of time hunting down the doctors involved–who say “I have no explanation, it was a miracle that that guy’s tumor went away”–and making sure nothing miraculous actually occurred? Of course not. They know there’s no evidence of modern medical miracles, because science tells us these things don’t happen.(Note: I’m not even saying I personally believe in the “Miracle of the Sun” or a lot of the reports of faith healings, etc. But my point is that Hitchens and currently living atheists are fooling themselves if they think they would rationally believe in Christianity, if only Jesus had come in 1930 and performed His miracles then. No, people today would be dismissing the “myths” written down 80 years ago.)

Finally, let me address the part of Hitchens’ critique that I personally thought was very good (i.e. the most difficult to answer):
duquettes uncle

Ocoee, FL

#118513 Dec 8, 2013
To get to the point of the wrongness of Christianity, because I think the teachings of Christianity are immoral. The central one is the most immoral of all, and that is the one of vicarious redemption. You can throw your sins onto somebody else, vulgarly known as scapegoating. In fact, originating as scapegoating in the same area, the same desert. I can pay your debt if I love you. I can serve your term in prison if I love you very much. I can volunteer to do that. I can’t take your sins away, because I can’t abolish your responsibility, and I shouldn’t offer to do so. Your responsibility has to stay with you. There’s no vicarious redemption. There very probably, in fact, is no redemption at all. It’s just a part of wish-thinking, and I don’t think wish-thinking is good for people either. It even manages to pollute the central question, the word I just employed, the most important word of all: the word love, by making love compulsory, by saying you MUST love. You must love your neighbour as yourself, something you can’t actually do. You’ll always fall short, so you can always be found guilty.

So to repeat, I think this final excerpt I’ve quoted is indeed a good critique of Christianity. I have trouble with it myself, and so do plenty of people who go to Sunday school every week. I don’t have a glib answer, but here are some observations:

==> Although it’s not an outright contradiction, Hitchens’ paragraph above does contain two objections that sort of cancel each other out. On the one hand, Hitchens is complaining that God demands the impossible of us. On the other hand, Hitchens complains that God allows Jesus to satisfy His demands on our behalf. So one way to interpret that is Hitchens’ approach: God is a tyrant who is impossible to please, and at the same time who is a moral monster and doesn’t hold people accountable for their actions. Or, we could interpret it the Christian way: God is infinitely just and so tells us the way to live a perfect life, but He is also merciful and knows we could never do it on our own. So, He became a man Himself in order to accomplish it on our behalf.

==> There’s a strain in Hitchens’ comments that I find quite often in the loud atheist camp, along the lines of,“If I took the Bible seriously, it would make God a monster. Therefore I don’t believe in Him.” Well, that’s actually not a very scientific approach, now is it? It’s akin to people rejecting quantum mechanics because they find it repugnant. I agree that it’s a challenge to Christians who claim their God is loving and good, if we could show that the Bible demonstrates God to be a sadistic tyrant. But very often I see atheists going further and thinking they’ve somehow demonstrated that there must be no God after all, since he “clearly” would have intervened in the 1940s.

==> If you are in a close relationship with someone–I’m thinking like a spouse or child–and that person truly does something wrong that hurts you, what is the best way to move forward? Assuming you want to maintain that relationship, the very best thing that can happen is that the person is really sorry about it and then…you both pretend that it never happened. If you don’t do that–if instead you carry the memory of that offense around for the rest of your life–then the relationship is irreparably harmed. If the person who wronged you can’t forget it, can’t “forgive him or herself,” then s/he will go through life wracked by guilt. That’s not “mentally or morally or intellectually healthy.” So if you at least understand what I am talking about here in a human context, then the doctrine of Christian redemption through Christ should be less foreign.

Since: Sep 13

United States of America

#118514 Dec 8, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
It is intelligently designed because God designed it.
And ,regartding your statement about your views of an unintelligent design , let me say this about that;
Your momma is a better man than you will ever be, as you were unintelligently designed by your parents.
That is my view on an unintelligent design.
So your intelligent designer which you claim is Judeo-Christian god is the designer.
You further claim that your designer does not need a designer to create it....If the designer does not need a designer to create it, why should other things?
Designs appear in clouds, for example, with no more of a designer than uneven heating, evaporation, and other natural causes.

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