Bible study rules for public schools proposed

Feb 10, 2010 Full story: The Courier-Journal 131,073

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

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“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#117003 Nov 12, 2013
havent forgotten wrote:
<quoted text> I don't often to to the political threads - the rightwingers infest it like nasty insects. And the left types are so angry at the rightwing that they do not take time to have a sensible discussion with others who mostly - but not entirely - agree with them. And I do not want to seem to endorse some of the extreme or nasty statements that even progressive types make in the heat of battle with the rightwing. I have enough trouble getting through on some points with really nice very liberal Christian persons in the real world, who think all will be be well because God's in his heaven and the arc of history bends toward justice -- which they somehow think makes it OK that so many horrid things happen in the meantime.. The belief in an afterlife takes away all urgency, and they can rest content in their ivory tower liberalism.
It tend to be a truism that the left opposes what the right does and the right opposes that the left is.
curious

Ocoee, FL

#117004 Nov 12, 2013
havent forgotten wrote:
<quoted text> Glad you made the point that atheism is not a faith. I do not read the books that the famous atheist types write. I suspect their motives, I'm afraid. If they want to sell books, they may overdo or sensationalize in their writing. They want to get on TV and TV types like arguments, not thoughtful explanations of nuances.
I am glad that you are glad that Chroe made the point that Atheism is not a faith.....
Conceivably ,neither of you knows the meaning of Faith

Faith =, the two primary meanings of the word are:(1) confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing; and (2) belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence
curious

Ocoee, FL

#117005 Nov 12, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>You have your double standard opinion and I have a single standard opinion as to why Hitchens said this.
You have given no logical reason why he would offer such information, I did.
Now do not dare think.
Maybe show us when he said it, and what the conversation around it consisted of, and we might find some clues. For all I know, you made up the whole thing.
It's in his book and you can google it

My own view is that this planet is used as a penal colony, lunatic asylum and dumping ground by a superior civilization, to get rid of the undesirable and unfit. I can't prove it, but you can't disprove it either. It happens to be my view, but it doesn't challenge any of the findings of Darwin or Huxley or Einstein or Hawking.
Christopher Hitchens, God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
curious

Ocoee, FL

#117006 Nov 12, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe "No mas pantalones" means they are not on you...
I've been wondering, are you really so easily amused by tv ads?
Enjoy this comedic moment, then.
"Where's the Beef"
"I can't believe I ate the whole thing"
"He won't eat it. He hates everything."
"You're soaking in it..."
De nada.
Hey thanks,brings back memories,,,Ya didn't include my favorite one'
Give it to Mikey ,he'll eat anything

On another note , I noticed the "de nada"
Habla usted El Español de Miguel Cervantes or you just know Don Quixote and Sancho Panza?

BTW No mas pantalones means , no more pants, Ya gotta see the ad to appreciate it.
curious

Ocoee, FL

#117007 Nov 12, 2013
havent forgotten wrote:
<quoted text> are you equally nasty and ignorant in all those languages? what were you, a mercenary? or a rightwing religious missionary? or both?
Let me answer your question;

Es ist egal, ob wir ein , das muss, mit roder gries bewaltigen. Eine , garniert mit einem , findet wesentlich schneller helfende , als werden sie wird. So kann eine sehr erweisen.

Sind wir im belastbarer. Wenn wir über unsere lachen, anstatt sie in uns , fordern wir unsere eigene und es finden sich leichter.

Since: Sep 13

United States of America

#117008 Nov 12, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey Lodi , ya better get a new Spanish teacher;
las webs enredadas tejemos cuando practicamos a engañarle![
there is no such word as WEB in the Spanish language
A mixture of Spanish and English words is what is commonly known as Spanglish.
Here is correct translation , you twit LOL
O ¿qué una maraña que tejen en la primera práctica de engañar!
BTW In the future I may post something in either Italian or German for ya,,,make sure you get a new interpreter.
I was impressed with the ~ over the n.
I don't have a Teacher, as I am studying on my own, and if you continue all your childish behavior I will have no choice but to ignore any further comments from you, which is probably a good idea anyway. You've demonstrated what lengths you will go to prove your point, lies, manipulating studies you post to show your argument in a positive light, name calling, and your outright hatred of anyone who does not agree with your opinion.
As I stated earlier, it's a futile attempt to have an intelligent conversation or discussion with you!
Known Fact

Somerset, KY

#117009 Nov 12, 2013
havent forgotten wrote:
..........
As an agnostic atheist, it is only when I argue with knowit- all atheist types who are sure they know there is no God (though they do not bother to define it) and have proof (though they say it is not their job to provide it), that I feel really annoyed. They are often useful in attacking or even in rebuttal against the rightwing nuts, but on the other hand they are also counterproductive in being too arrogant, unwilling to accept nuances, and nasty and dismissive of anyone who slightly challenges them and their claim to superior knowledge.(Have you met Skeptic? for example).
I use to be an Agnostic Atheist as well but then I got to thinking that the term God implies magic of some sort. I can believe in an advanced civilization, that if we met them then their superior technology might make them appear God like but still there is no magic involved.

It's like if we went back in time a thousand years and had an automatic weapon and drove a Land Rover then we would be Gods. We could set the people down and try to explain how the gun worked or how air conditioning in the car worked but they will just assume it's magic.

All I'm saying is if there is a "God" then it's not some all powerful being with magic, they have to apply the same laws of science that we have, they are just way more experienced in it. Always enjoy your posts by the way.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#117010 Nov 12, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
I am glad that you are glad that Chroe made the point that Atheism is not a faith.....
Conceivably ,neither of you knows the meaning of Faith
Faith =, the two primary meanings of the word are:(1) confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing; and (2) belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence
It depends on where you've cherry picked your definitions from.
For example, when I type "faith definition" in the Google search box the first thing I get is:

faith
f&#257;TH/Submit
noun
1.
complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
"this restores one's faith in politicians"
synonyms: trust, belief, confidence, conviction; More
antonyms: mistrust
2.
strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.
synonyms: religion, church, sect, denomination,(religious) persuasion,(religious) belief, ideology, creed, teaching, doctrine More

That was a direct cut and paste with no editing by me. Hopefully it displays in Topix without confusing the text editor. Otherwise, https://www.google.com/#q=faith+definition

Thanks for playing.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#117011 Nov 12, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey thanks,brings back memories,,,Ya didn't include my favorite one'
Give it to Mikey ,he'll eat anything
On another note , I noticed the "de nada"
Habla usted El Español de Miguel Cervantes or you just know Don Quixote and Sancho Panza?
BTW No mas pantalones means , no more pants, Ya gotta see the ad to appreciate it.
I did include Mikey. Look again:
"He won't eat it. He hates everything"

Yes, I've seen the ad with Flo and the two insurance guys.'nuff said.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#117012 Nov 12, 2013
stuck in a lodi wrote:
May 9, 2003 in Texas. Deanna Laney, with the Abraham story in mind, believed God wanted her to stone her three sons to death. She was successful in killing her 8-year-old son Joshua and her 6-year-old son Luke. Her 14-month-old son Aaron did not die from the injuries his Christian mother inflicted on him but will remain permanently disabled for the remainder of his life.
On April 4, 2004 a jury found Laney not guilty by reason of insanity and she was sent to a state mental hospital. Then, in May of 2012 she was declared sane and released from the mental hospital.
The fact that a jury found her innocent by reason of insanity and her horrendous acts were based on things she learned from the Bible strongly implies that believing such horrid teachings about God as are found in the Bible can lead to insanity.
Correct me if I'm wrong in saying this, but didn't one who post here claim that if god told him to murder his child he would do so too?????
Yes and amen.

Since: Sep 13

United States of America

#117013 Nov 12, 2013
Here's another story- A North Carolina Preacher is advising all the Dad's in his congregation to "crack that kids wrists" and to give him a good punch when he "drops the limp wrist" in reference to a little boy just four years of age who may be acting "effeminate".{showin g qualities that are considered more suited to women than to men : not manly} But the preacher doesn't stop there.... he goes on with his {Sermon} Preaching that He gives them special dispensation to do this.{paraphrasing him} "You are authorized to do this, you have the authority as parents to take charge of this, and when your little girl starts acting too 'butch' you reign her in. He says that lil girls can play sports but he mostly wants to express the fact that they need to walk, talk, act and smell like a little girl. In other words, they need to be beautiful and 'make themselves up'

What a Jerk this preacher is..not only is he advocating the stereotypical view that woman are to be nothing but trophies, he goes further and advocates punching 4 year olds as well.
Right

Frankfort, KY

#117014 Nov 12, 2013
Mohandas Ghandi wrote:
Which bible? There are several hundred different religions and interpretations of those religions.
You are correct!
curious

Ocoee, FL

#117015 Nov 12, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
It depends on where you've cherry picked your definitions from.
For example, when I type "faith definition" in the Google search box the first thing I get is:
faith
f&#257;TH/Submit
noun
1.
complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
"this restores one's faith in politicians"
synonyms: trust, belief, confidence, conviction; More
antonyms: mistrust
2.
strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.
synonyms: religion, church, sect, denomination,(religious) persuasion,(religious) belief, ideology, creed, teaching, doctrine More
That was a direct cut and paste with no editing by me. Hopefully it displays in Topix without confusing the text editor. Otherwise, https://www.google.com/#q=faith+definition
Thanks for playing.
Pick your choice,no matter which ,
Merriam Webster Dictionary
Full Definition of FAITH
1a : allegiance to duty or a person : loyaltyb (1): fidelity to one's promises (2): sincerity of intentions
2a (1): belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2): belief in the traditional doctrines of a religionb (1):( firm belief in something for which there is no proof )(2): complete trust
3: something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs <the Protestant faith>
Free online dictionary
1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief, trust.
3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
4. often Faith Christianity The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
6. A set of principles or beliefs.

Dictionary.com
aith [feyth] Show IPA
noun
1.confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
2.belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
3.belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
4.belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someoneconcerning honesty.
5.a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.
curious

Ocoee, FL

#117016 Nov 12, 2013
stuck in a lodi wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't have a Teacher, as I am studying on my own, and if you continue all your childish behavior I will have no choice but to ignore any further comments from you, which is probably a good idea anyway. You've demonstrated what lengths you will go to prove your point, lies, manipulating studies you post to show your argument in a positive light, name calling, and your outright hatred of anyone who does not agree with your opinion.
As I stated earlier, it's a futile attempt to have an intelligent conversation or discussion with you!
Sorry to see that you like to dish it out,but can't take it.
One does not have to respond to anything I post.
You have done so on numerous occasions , of your OWN volition.
If you were forced to respond ,it was not ny doings.
Press the ignore button at your leisure.

Since: Sep 13

United States of America

#117017 Nov 12, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry to see that you like to dish it out,but can't take it.
One does not have to respond to anything I post.
You have done so on numerous occasions , of your OWN volition.
If you were forced to respond ,it was not ny doings.
Press the ignore button at your leisure.
The point I was making is - There is no point in continuing any further conversations with you...Your first sentence is completely absurd, I am not going to lower myself to your childish behavior, which has no business in a forum where intelligent people are trying to discuss matters that affect us all.

yes I have responded to you on numerous occasions. 1.}I have proven how you misrepresent studies you post by posting the links of what was actually said. 2.} I have proven that others have knowledge of other languages other than yourself. 3.} I have shown evidence of your prejudice and hatred throughout this thread. 4.} I have shown evidence of your continuance lies, not only concerning general knowledge but also people.

Simply put, you are not a worthy person for much of anything, even your god would be displeased with your actions. Ha

Since: Sep 13

United States of America

#117019 Nov 13, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>You have your double standard opinion and I have a single standard opinion as to why Hitchens said this.
You have given no logical reason why he would offer such information, I did.
Now do not dare think.
Maybe show us when he said it, and what the conversation around it consisted of, and we might find some clues. For all I know, you made up the whole thing.
I've given Curious ample time to do what you asked of him, it's obvious he's not going to.

That statement was made in Chapter 6 of Hitchens Book-Arguments from Design. He uses a common creationist quotemine that creationists use against evolution's proponents and turns it around on them exposing it as a fraud: "To suppose that the eye, with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest possible degree." He continues the quote thusly: "When it was first said that the sun stood still and the world turned round, the common sense of mankind declared the doctrine false; but the old saying of Vox populi, vox Dei, as every philosopher knows, cannot be trusted in science. Reason tells me, that if numerous gradations from a simple and imperfect eye to one complex and perfect can be shown to exist, each grade being useful to its possessor, as is certain the case; if further, the eye ever varies and the variations be inherited, as is likewise certainly the case; and if such variations should be useful to any animal under changing conditions of life, then the difficulty of believing that a perfect and complex eye could be formed by natural selection, should not be considered as subversive of the theory." Hitchens makes further arguments against the design hypothesis by noting how if we are designed it was by a very poor designer, using the eye again as an example citing it is in fact upside down and backwards, which seems quite inefficient.

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#117020 Nov 13, 2013
havent forgotten wrote:
<quoted text> obviously there could not be an allgood allpowerful God. I do not think the God of the Bible is either all good or all powerful, and though He is a rather nasty God, he seems to be NOT a complete misfit with the world - the universe as we know it and our planet especially - as we experience it. Lots of cruelty, indifference, favortism. Just unworthy of being thanked in the case of such a God, and unworthy of being entirely thankful for in the case of the nature of nature as we experience it on planet earth.
I'm inclined to agree with you. If there is a god and it just so happens to be the Bible god then it's not particularly worthy of our love, praise and thanks.

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#117021 Nov 13, 2013
havent forgotten wrote:
<quoted text> actually I think the burden of proof is on curious and the other rightwing nuts when they make any statements. They do not have credibility. Their bias is extreme, and they do not use proper footnotes. People who refer to the Bible should be more precise about which passages, also - on both sides. Though if we who are enlightened converse among ourselves, we do not have so much burden of footnoting, if we assume the others have read the Bible and are well-informed about current events, history, science, etc. And when we reply to rightwingers, it would do no good to reference the best of sources and the soundest of evidence, because they have their minds blocked against actual information, and love their bigoted prejudices.
As an agnostic atheist, it is only when I argue with knowit- all atheist types who are sure they know there is no God (though they do not bother to define it) and have proof (though they say it is not their job to provide it), that I feel really annoyed. They are often useful in attacking or even in rebuttal against the rightwing nuts, but on the other hand they are also counterproductive in being too arrogant, unwilling to accept nuances, and nasty and dismissive of anyone who slightly challenges them and their claim to superior knowledge.(Have you met Skeptic? for example).
Yes, the burden of proof rests on the person making the assertion or indeed, the person who is wanting to change your mind about something.

Most of the religies I come across will jut their chin out by making an assertion and then expect you to change their mind by insisting you disprove them.

Of course, it doesn't work like that and while I didn't have to disprove what curious was saying about Freud, I knew it wouldn't be difficult.

Why? Because he was being specific about what he was asserting.

Contrast that with the distinct lack of specifics often encountered when a believer is asserting their particular deity. Believers regularly have great difficulty with even defining their respective gods.

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#117022 Nov 13, 2013
havent forgotten wrote:
<quoted text> I actually took it for granted that you werejust being hasty and that you did not mean to attack all Christians equally.
Some are so stupid, and some so nasty, and some both - and those are almost entirely far rightwing extremists. And some centrists are too lazy to recognize that their religion is being taken over by nut-casses. Lots of the nice sane center-left type Christians are busy working on good causes - often in coalition with freethinkers and those who are moderates and progressives in other religions (including Jewish types who are J St and Shimon Perez types and not aIPAC and Netanyahu types) that they do not often take on the fundies directly. Some of the best ones to take on the fundies are guys like Schaeffer (not sure of spelling) whose father was a rightwing religious nut and who was trained to be one too, and then started thinking. I did not mean to sound as if I thought you actually intended to generalize because you thought that way. When one types fast and is annoyed at the fundies, it is easy to skip a few steps!
No problem, hf!:-)

I'm always skipping posts as I often find that I haven't got the time to read/respond to all of them.

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#117023 Nov 13, 2013
havent forgotten wrote:
<quoted text> actually I think the burden of proof is on curious and the other rightwing nuts when they make any statements. They do not have credibility. Their bias is extreme, and they do not use proper footnotes. People who refer to the Bible should be more precise about which passages, also - on both sides. Though if we who are enlightened converse among ourselves, we do not have so much burden of footnoting, if we assume the others have read the Bible and are well-informed about current events, history, science, etc. And when we reply to rightwingers, it would do no good to reference the best of sources and the soundest of evidence, because they have their minds blocked against actual information, and love their bigoted prejudices.
As an agnostic atheist, it is only when I argue with knowit- all atheist types who are sure they know there is no God (though they do not bother to define it) and have proof (though they say it is not their job to provide it), that I feel really annoyed. They are often useful in attacking or even in rebuttal against the rightwing nuts, but on the other hand they are also counterproductive in being too arrogant, unwilling to accept nuances, and nasty and dismissive of anyone who slightly challenges them and their claim to superior knowledge.(Have you met Skeptic? for example).
Sorry, I forgot to mention that I have come across Skeptic and he is indeed, no better than those believers who insist they are 100% correct in their beliefs.

Like you, I class myself as agnostic. I do have a strong tendency towards atheism but I fully accept that I could be wrong and maybe there is/are some cosmic mega-being(s) that created everything.

I just think that it's very unlikely, that's all.

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